Testing bikes-Etiquette

[plantluvver]

Hi,

I am nervous about testing bikes in bike shops. Is there a proper ettiquette? Are you expected to buy a bike if you test a number of them? How far do you go on a test ride?

Part of my dilemma is that I really am a cheapskate, and I would much prefer a used bike. Having said that, I realize that the only new bikes I've ever had were department store bikes. I feel guilty putting the people through a lot of bother when I may not buy a bike.

And I know that if it came down to it, I WOULD buy a new bike, and be happy with my decision IF it really were the right bike.

It could be that I am nervous just because I don't shop a lot in stores that are expensive. Or perhaps I feel almost like I am visiting a car lot (where every experience I've had has really sucked, except one which wasn't too bad.)

I could read all day on the web about geometry and fitting issues, but that still doesn't mean anything until I have experience at riding bikes.

I am very afraid of making the wrong decision on an expensive purchase.

(I am sounding pretty whiny, aren't I?)

Mary

PS I would like to have FUN buying a bike, but somehow I strangle the experience of buying something useful, then I act like a brat and buy junk instead.

[Trek420]

Plantlover,

My $0.02 is that when buying a bike you are buying 2 things:

the frame-you're "stuck" with that....till you buy the next bike that is. Over time you'll replace lots of stuff, tires, seat, purple cow spot bar tape but you're stuck with the frame. ;)

a shop you like and trust. Is there a shop near you that sells used bikes? A couple of them do here.

I know you've read a lot but good article here:
http://www.velogirls.com/resources/publications/buy.htm

I feel it's important to be honest in cycling...and life 8-)

State what you're doing right up front including both that you are trying bikes out and also your approx. budget. Watch how the shop responds. It's part of the "audition to be your bike shop" process.

I have seen my wrench spend lots of time with customers who can not find a bike at his shop in their range, his line is well....kinda pricey. But he'll take the time explain what to look for, make recomendations, referrals, tips to get more for their money with the reccomendation that whatever they get .... bring it to him for upkeep.

He treats a customer with a box store bike with the same care as pricey bikes.

Thats why I go there.

What I highly object to and I see this a lot, we've had this debate endlessly on the AIDS Lifecycle board. We have to support our bike shops and community they give back so much and ultimately save you money.

Don't spend your LBS time and energy to find the make model and size of "your" bike....just to go buy it on Craigs, E-bay.

Is it unfair that some can do that because we know what fits? I don't think so. There are associated risks with buying online, you risk the "bad karma" that comes with a hot bike and even if you know your fit there are no gaurantees. And trust me, I've spent plenty of time and money to know I ride a 47 cm with the following angles....but I would always buy at a shop even if it means having "less bike".

I forget who said to me "I would never buy a bike from someone I can't go and kick in the b***"

[kaybee]

I can only speak from my experience (which isn't much!), but here goes . . . except for having to drive all over the southeast, I had fun test riding bikes. One shop in downtown Atlanta needed to make a copy of my driver's license in case I took off with the bike, but most shops just adjusted the saddle and told me to take off. I spent different amounts of time at the different shops, depending on how much I liked the bike I was testing, and how much effort the sales staff was putting into trying to get the sale. However, I never felt pressured by any of them. This is their job, and they understand that they will not sell a bike to every person that takes a test ride. Also remember that they want a happy customer.

I think finding the right bike is a bit like finding the right mate -- you will "just know" when you find the right one. It really will feel right. It will also probably cost more than you had planned to spend, but doesn't everything? ;) Just take your time and ride lots of bikes. After riding a few you will have some ideas of what you like and don't like and what feels good and what doesn't. Hope that helps.

KB

[redrhodie]

Hi Mary,

No! You don't sound whiny! It's a big deal. Take your time.

Tell them you've just begun to look. You absolutely don't have to buy a bike just because you've test ridden a bunch. Ask them if there's an area you should stay in, and how long you can try it for. Take the guesswork out of it. Every shop is different.

If, like me, you find a used bike that you love, go for it! My lbs had mine posted on their bulletin board, and I've spent more on upgrades and accessories in their shop than I did on the bike. They still made out okay. I've been a good customer. Shop around for the shop. Find one that really takes your needs into consideration, not your wallet.

I went in a different bike store a few days ago, and it was definitely a hard sale kind of place. I looked at a Ruby just for kicks, but told the salesman right from the start I wasn't buying today. He still took bikes down for me, and didn't seem to mind at all. Even there, they were happy I was looking. Better than not.

Good Luck!

[bcipam]

I sort of have this moral thing I deal with - if I go to a shop with no intent to ever buy a bike or anything, and I make them spend alot of time showing me the bike, adjusting it, allowing me to test ride a few, but I really plan on getting hte bike someplace else, then that's just wrong (this goes for buying cars, jewelry, clothes, etc).

Here's my thought - since you are interested in buying a used bike but have no clue what you want, try your local bike club and see if folks there have bikes you have reseached and would be willing to allow you to ride it around the parking lot or something. I realize a shop doesn't have the expectation ever customer that's looking will buy but if you keep them from helping someone who would buy, that's a problem. Bike shops struggle for sales as it is.

[DeniseGoldberg]

I'm with bcipam on this one. I think it's fine to test ride bikes at more than one shop with the intent that you will end up buying a bike from one of them. But I have a problem with taking the time of the folks in the shop when they don't stand a chance of selling a bike to you. Yes, it may be a subtle difference between taking test rides at multiple shops when you can only buy from one of them, but I think the intent of purchasing a bike from one of the shops makes a difference.

[redrhodie]

From my experience in retail, shop workers are happy to help (at least there's something to do!). You're not seen as wasting their time, even if you don't buy anything. If you're obviously not interested in buying anything in that store, and other people are (they're busy), wait to the side while they help the "real" customers, then go right back to looking or asking questions. Chances are, they won't be so busy that you're in the way. It looks better to have people waiting than an empty store.

[dachshund]

I'm sure you've read all the suggestions here to "ride as many bikes as possible". The LBS folks know this. I think if you find a good salesperson, they will understand what you want and get you riding those bikes. I did this recently, and I found it helpful to have them suggest some brands that I didn't know, and different prices ranges, etc. The comparison helps narrow it down. And I can't imagine they have NO used bikes for sale. Anyway, if they're good at what they do, they'll feel confident they can sell you their bike, and will keep at it until you either leave or buy something.

And I wondered the same thing, intially - "won't they be bothered if I want to ride lots of bikes??" Consider car-buying: you spend an afternoon driving vehicles that cost thousands. I've never thought twice about that. :)

[RoadRaven]

If it helps... when we are on the look out for a new steed for the stable, we make it very clear to the 4 LBS' that we are genuinely interested in purchasing, and we look for the best deal, most helpful service etc etc.

They all know us well now... with 6 riders in this family of 7, we have quite a few bikes in the shed...

I think as long as they know you are a genuine purchaser, and they are aware you are shopping around, then it is fine to try as many bikes, from as many places, as you feel like.

It is up to them to make their range the best choice for you.

To spread the spending around, and ensure good relations are maintained between us and all the shops, we purchase small items from all of them... spokes, recovery drink, new stems, seat posts etc etc

Just be open and honest, and if a shop seems grumpy with you because you are exercising your right to shop around, then don't go back there.


Wishing you LOADS of FUN...

[sarahkonamojo]

When I bought my bike last fall. I knew I was going to buy a new bike, hopefully, from a local store. I went to as many stores and test rode as many bikes as I could. Eventually, at one specific LBS, I paid for a fitting ($75) that was deducted from the price of the bike if I purchased from them. (I did.) Very happy with the purchase.

I wouldn't buy a bike on ebay. If you were very familiar with bikes, different models/makes, sizing, and had the tools/time required to wrench a bike, then eBay would be the place. You wouldn't really need an LBS anyway. But to think you are somehow going to undercut the LBS? They might not be in business the next time you need a test ride/repair/overhaul. I also see nothing wrong with looking for the best price and service and haggling about it.

For me, it was about service, fitting the bike, and feeling comfortable about the process. Sure you pay for it, but it is worth it.

SKM

[farrellcollie]

I rode bikes at 3 lbs - they all carried different brands of bikes and I wanted to try several different brands before deciding. I think they understood that.

[KnottedYet]

Be honest, ask for catalogs for new bike brands, ask to see the used bikes.

It took me 2 or 3 weeks of regular visits to my LBS to decide (and purchase) my new $400 bike. I still go there every week or so for different little things and big things, and have sent a few people there. It didn't hurt them to spend that much time for my cheap purchase, because I'm now a loyal customer.

I'm happy because they know me and my bike. They're happy because if I want something I buy it from them or ask them to order it for me. They will meet advertised prices from other places if someone else has it cheaper. I'm happy, they're happy, and my bike gets ridden.

what's not to love?

Find the LBS who meshes with you. You won't regret it, and neither will they. Just be honest during your search.

[plantluvver]

Thanks everyone.

I certainly agree that if I buy new it will be local. In fact if I buy used, it will be local too. And given a choice, I will ALWAYS buy from the little guy. I feel that huge corporations will have no loyalty to me, they can and will move whereever they think the profit is. (And I include REI here, who seems only nominally a coop.) And while I may find an excellent clerk one week, next week, it may be a totally new person.

I just didn't know if bike shops expect you to not look elsewhere. In car lots, they want you to buy today, because they don't want to walk off the lot. It just seems that car lots are adversarial to their customers, and I've only ever found one that I have felt that treated me well.

I am glad to know it sounds like there are bike shops oriented to servicing their customers. I just always feel kind of like a rube, not understanding why a person pays thousands for a bike. I feel second class, when I ask why I should spend more on something. If the quality is there, fine, but I want to be shown it, not made to feel like I shouldn't ask. (Hmm, do I detect a chip on my shoulder? Maybe a whole log?:rolleyes: )

(I grew up in a working class family , and as a girl to boot, with a 160 IQ. Rarely have I felt in my element.:( )

And yes, I am afraid of being sold a bike, just because it has been on the floor for too long. (And I worked in life insurance for years, and I think now think that systematic cheating is just built into that whole industry, and it's well meaning employees don't even see it, because they've been conditioned to it.:mad: )

But when I DO find a LBS who is dedicated to the local community, I want to keep him/her in business. Just like I prefer my local independent coffee shop, with their thrift shop decor, to the glossy Starbucks on the same block.:) Like someone said, I will then know who to kick in the butt, because I will be a LOT closer to the owner, and it won't be just some poor schmuck earning a few bucks an hour wearing my boot prints!;)

Mary

[pooks]

On three different occasions over the past year, I browsed through the bikes at REI and each time had a different salesguy spend a lot of time with me answering questions and explaining things. The third time, I was test-riding bikes and that guy adjusted and adjusted and watched me ride and adjusted more and probably spent an hour with me riding various ones, as he adjusted and/or explained things to me.

Then I went to one of the LBSs and couldn't get the guy to do anything more than answer questions with short answers, and look over my shoulder to see what else was going on. (There were other employees in the store -- he wasn't the only one so there was no need for him to be more interested in everything else that happened than talking to me.) Yet, while I was there I bought a helmet, a bike lock and a couple of other things, even though I didn't feel totally sure that I was buying the "right" helmet or the "right" bike lock.

I decided at that point that if I bought my bike locally I'd get it from REI because those guys aren't on commission (or so I was told) and still gave me better service than the guy at the LBS.

Instead we bought our bikes online because my husband wanted shaft drive bikes (not available anywhere except online or catalog). I decided I didn't like my helmet and went back to the LBS to exchange it. The same guy waited on me -- and this time he spent time answering questions, adjusting the helmet, etc., etc.

I have no idea why he was attentive the second time and not the first. I feel better about going there now, for sure, but I'll still pick up some stuff from REI, since I do get that credit/dividend at the end of the year.

I generally believe in supporting the local businesses, and in fact we'll pay more for products that are made in the USA instead of China. Somehow, I still like shopping at REI, though.

[plantluvver]

My Dear!:o

I guess I did kind of single them out, mentioning them by name. The only problem I have with them is that they don't look any different than any other chain. But they have the ownership of a COOP. And I have just never understood how their members the OWNERS benefited from their expansion. They are a big organization but who is in control there? I am not saying they are evil, but there is just such potential there for mismanagement. Who is really running the show, and how do they serve their members, except for the dividend check? Their prices don't seem any better than anywhere else. They just seem to have outgrown their organizational model.

It just seems to me that a CO-OP should just look less CORPORATE. Maybe they aren't, I have just never looked into it. And perhaps they have a good personell system and employee retention. I just hate it when I go to a big place, and meet an employee who is fantastic, only to find out later that they are no longer there:( . You got served by a different guy every time. And yes a commission structure is worrisome, the person has to get the sale, or his coworker might make the sale when you stop back. How does that work? Do they ask if you are working with anyone?

I just like the notion that when you have lots of little players, the consumer has more choice, and we don't get the one size fits all mega-corporate landscape, catering to the largest market segment. And the big guys seem to need to deal in volume. This cuts the consumers' choices. With the little guys in business, you can have specialist niche businesses. But if the little guys don't fill our needs, I guess we have to go to the big guys. I just hate to see the little small shops crowded out. My boyfreind always goes to Starbucks, but I get shivers going in there with him. They are just so HUGE now. And while I think my theory is an excellent general notion, life only consists of specific situatiions.

I haven't been to REI for YEARS, my budget is now old wool sweaters from Goodwill. But they were the only place that I could find my favorite snack bar. Can't remember the name of the company, but they called their product pemmican, and it wasn't overly sweet Now I just buy candy bars from, you guessed it! the supermarket chains when they are 4 for 1.00. My favorite little guy is my own bottom line:D But I need to watch my other bottom:eek:

When I get commuting by bike more, I'll be able to shop around, not the one-stop shopping cuz of bus schedules.

[pooks]

Don't worry -- I wasn't protesting your mention of REI. I was just mentioning my experience at the Dallas store.

I wondered if perhaps the guys who worked in bikes were all cyclists who support their habit by working there part time to get the discounts! (But that was just a guess. I was simply surprised that each one I spoke to knew so much and from personal experience.)

The primary thing we've bought there has been clothes -- we discovered that the guide shirts and pants (with zip-off legs) are the greatest travel clothes ever, and in fact my husband wears the guide shirts every weekend. He loves them, and REI has the best selection. (And yes, they're expensive! Fortunately they wear like iron!)

[plantluvver]

Your post reminded me that this forum is a PUBLIC place. This is something I forget when I am sitting at my PC in the wee hours. There is a big chance of being misunderstood, and I forgot that. What I said was a casual remark, and I wouldn't want someone to misunderstand, and walk away with a bad impression of a company from a casual remark.

I am not a lurker. I tend to join a forum and just barge right in. So I think that I am having a conversation with just two or three people. I am glad that you brought up your positive REI experience. It is important to have a balanced discussion.

[pooks]

I tend to join a forum and just barge right in.

Clearly I do, too! I've only been here a couple of days and look how much I'm posting!

[bikerbarb]

yesterday my daughter broke her front derailleur cable. we took it to our LBS where we bought two higher end bikes this year and havegiven them a lot a business. they looked on their computer and said replacement of the cable will be $22. After leaving the bike, I called our local REI store and asked them their cost. It is $ 8--$3 for the cable and $5 for labor. (The have an itemized price list you can pick up, too.)

[plantluvver]

After reading another post on LBS purchase and service, is it possible LBS price includes later adjustment for cable stretch and REI price doesn't? :confused:

Though if so the LBS should tell you to come back in a few weeks.:rolleyes:

My dad was a plumber, and he always fixed everything himself, (though working on bikes with pipe wrenches really messes with their paint jobs. :rolleyes: ) I've inherited his DIY or is it DIX;) gene. I figure I need to buy a tool ONCE, but I gotta pay someone else EVERY TIME.

[btchance]

plantluvver, you sound like me. Anything I have that stops working WILL be taken apart to see if I can fix it before I let anyone else touch it. (my grandfather, dad, and two of my brothers are the same way). and you know what, I enjoy doing it!

[bikerbarb]

Well, in this case, if the LBS included a check back for free to see if the cable stretched and REI did not and one was required to pay again, the cost for 2 services at REI would add up to half the cost of the one service charge at the bike store in question.
I'm glad REI is here, it is now a LBS in our neighborhood. I'm feeling less warmly toward the original bike store given several recent experiences (I won't rant about them all) that include catching them at things like downgrading the saddle my new bike is supposed to come with and then charging me extra for the saddle they put on it.

[KnottedYet]

Ooooh, that's nasty. That sounds like Quillfred and her pedal problem.

(did I mention how much I love my LBS? www.recycledcycles.com )

[bike4ever]

I do believe you will find across the country hits/misses with REI. Some are run more as a local business with others appearing to be the straight corporate line. You do have to shop around with your LBS. Some shops will give you the complete/total attention with others ignoring you waiting for the thousand dollar bike sale.

The shop I manage rewards their employees by encouraging positive costomer service. We receive 1% of the sale if the transaction has a specific amount of items on it. This offers the employees the opportunity to explain the benefits/safety factor of the accessories - helmets, lights, bottle cage, etc. This also encourages the employees to really get to know their customers - where do they ride, how often, what are their goals.

[Bad JuJu]

I like REI for their large and varied inventory, not to mention that nice little dividend every year. But I also have noticed big differences among different REI stores. In comparison, once you've built a good relationship with an LBS, that's usually something that sticks. I was off my bike for most of last year, but the LBS folks remember me and still provide good service plus a few little perks since I've been doing business with them for so long--nothing huge, but enough to make me keep going back there (free bungees when I bought a car rack, a free tube when I bought two new tires, accepting a 15% deposit on a layaway bike instead of the 25% they usually require). Add that to the happy circumstance that they are at the trailhead of the local rail trail, and you can see why I wouldn't go anywhere else.

On the other hand, if you live near enough to a well-run REI store that is friendly and responsive to your needs, and that can become your LBS, that's great, too.

[Brandy]

I haven't read all of the replies, but when I was buying my bike off of Craigslist, I called a LBS and was totally upfront with them. I just needed to make sure that the Trek 1000 54cm was indeed my size and I told them that I was planning to buy used. They were totally cool with letting me try out the bike for size and I bought my pedals from them a few days later.

[spazzdog]

The only thing I would add to the "try bikes" mantra is:

Don't go to the LBS on Saturday and expect them to be able to give you as much un-harried time as they could on a weekday afternoon.

The place I bought mine (in MA) was an absolute zoo on the weekends, so I did all my business with them while the rest of the world was at work (M-F, btn 9-5).

spazz

[bikerbarb]

I spent six months researching what kind of new bike I wanted and tried out quite a few. I settled in on a bike that felt great and was listed as fast, but you could comfortably ride a century. What cinched the deal was that the dealer quoted me a price for the bike I test rode at $900 less than the MSRP.
The bike was over my price range, but it seemed like such a good deal that price, I thought I'd make the stretch.
Well, there have been several things I have not been happy about--swapping out the handle bar for a WSD that I didn't ask for and then reluctantly after weeks giving me back the one it came with and charging me for rewrapping tape. ("This time we won't charge for the labor involved.") Putting a computer on of their choice w/o asking me ("It's great, it's the one that I have."), not giving me the cleats (yet) for the $160 pedals despite asking 3 times (finally got on the 4th trip). And charging me $50 for a seat. (oh, we did? that was a mistake.) I asked why they didn't put the saddle on that was in the specs and they said that the catelog might say it came with that but that wasn't always what they came with--that seat might not exist. When I wanted a comparable saddle w/ti rails, they wanted another $100.

But on top of that, what I've discovered is that they gave me an '05 bike instead of an '06. Now the bike I may have tested may have been an '05 and I didn't know it, but the owner stapled the price quote on his business card to the page of the bike I bought in the '06 catelog. That's what I took home and carefully researched and considered for 2 weeks.

I've looked at '05 models on line and the price I paid was comparable to what last year’s model is being offered for now. When I brought it up to the owner, he shrugged and said “you still got a great deal”. I believe I was defrauded. I sincerely think I was treated this way for being XX. This is a high-end purchase--and the second bike my family bought there this year. Of course I’m really soured on them and will not give them any more business. And I’m not giving them a ringing endorsement when people ask where I got my bike. What would you do?

[pooks]

I blogged about my most recent experience at REI yesterday.

I took my bike in (a shaft drive bike that clearly was not purchased there) and paid them to install the bike computer I bought from them three weeks ago. (My husband never found time to install it, so .... 20 bucks to REI.)

However, without charging extra they also adjusted the wheels which they realized were rubbing the brake pads a little, did some other tweaks, watched me ride and said my pedals were fine but the handlebar wasn't, and adjusted that.

All on a bike they didn't sell, at no charge.

I'd be surprised if they charged extra to adjust work they'd done themselves, but maybe this is just a local thing. All I know is that the Dallas REI rocks.

As for the coop part -- I love getting that 10% dividend at the end of every year.

[pooks]

By the way -- I'm very impatient. All the different kinds of bikes confused me. I wanted a bike and I wanted it NOW, and the thought of doing months of research would never have crossed my mind!

I admire those of you who are doing such a great job. I do realize it's a large expense and worth all the time put into it. In my case, I was just convinced that I needed "a bike" to ride around for my health, and didn't expect it to go beyond that.

Well, it hasn't gone beyond that YET, but my interest in biking sure has!