Uphill skills

[chartman64]

Anyone got some tips on how to build the muscle/skills to be able to better handle long uphills, or short very steep hills (other than practice, practice, practice)? Are there particular exercises I could/should be doing when not on the bike that might help when I'm on the bike? I'm about to move from a relatively flat area to the top of a hill. There's only two roads in/out of the neighborhood -- one is a 500-foot hill that's less than .25 mile in length, the other is the same gain over 2 miles. I can do the two-mile route without too much trouble but it's unfortunately the WRONG side of the hill (opposite direction) for errands. So if I want to use the bike instead of the car, I have to conquer the steep monster.

Any suggestions?

Cindi

[Delta7]

Hi,

I live at the top of a fairly steep hill and it's a challenge everytime.

A good trick that works for me... before the hill, pick up as much speed as possible and just before the bottom of the hill, shift to the lowest gear and spin really hard. There's also a stop light right before my street, and I have to make a hard right turn, so my timing has to be just right :) Today was not bad, I made it about 3/4 up before I had to stand up for the final push.

Tip: be sure to shift so you don't drop the chain, I still manage to do this every now and again.

Happy climbing !

[Tri Girl]

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm a serious hill slug and would LOVE to increase my power on hills. I read somewhere that doing leg presses, squats, and hamstring curls would be good (but I have a bad knee, so squats are out). I think anything you can do to strengthen the quads/hammys will help with strength output on the bike.
I'm looking forward to other great tips from these ladies here who have so much to offer!

[dachshund]

There are isometric exercises that are great for strengthening, and should be safe for your knees. I recognize most of the exercises listed here, since I recently went through physical therapy. My condition was a back injury, but I also have weak knees.
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/sma/sma_jumpersk_rex.htm

Check out the wall squat. There's another one where you stand with your back against the wall. With your back straight, lower down into a squat (not quite 90 degrees) with the wall supporting your back. Try to hold it for 30 seconds. It's a real exercise for the quads, but doesn't require moving up and down. The goal is to do 3 of these, then try to get up to a minute or more.

[Dok-torr]

I am really sorry to break this to you, but for me anyay, the only way I managed to get stronger on the hills was doing more hills!

I came to Auckland thinking I was fit and could climb....oh boy! The hils here are steep and (because of all the volacanoes) just rise out of nowhere.

Climbing uses so many muscles your arms are braced, your abs are held tight so your body doesn't waste your energy by trying to join in, your legs don't just push up and down but they push forwards and backwards. Don't under estimate how strong your hip flexors are too (if you clip in that is, they are a real powerhouse) also your glutes are powerful hip extensors.

If "other" exercises are a problem to you (as I guess squats are the closest off-bike alternative) then I am afraid you need to find a smaller hill that you are happy with and do it again, and again, and again!

Choose a low gear that you are comfortable with and try to stay in the saddle as long as you can. You are much more efficient and energy conserving in the seat. The number of times I have plodded past someone who was bouncing around like a gazelle up a hill! Its quite fun!

As you get better it does all get so much more fun. I no longer see a hill and groan in anticipation, I just get in a good gear and go up it until I get there.

Good luck and let us know how you go.
:)

[Quillfred]

I saw something the other day on my commute home that I would like to try. A guy was riding in a high gear on the flats--in other words he was off the seat, doing a standing pedal.

Of course the balance issues are different but this should create some of the same aerobic needs as cycling up hill.

Quillfred

[Kimmyt]

Not an expert here, but a beginner who has finally begun to figure out a bit of the hill thang.

Some tips that were given to me that I noticed really helped.

Of course, the shifting. Always shift before you start mashing your pedals. Once you get into your lowest possible gear, good luck.

Don't dismount on a hill. Just... keep... going. It sucks, but getting back onto your bike and clipped in on a steep sucks much more (especially if there are cars). I talk to myself all the time telling myself I can do this, just get there, don't dismount. My goal on any given strenuous hill is just to NOT DISMOUNT. I don't care about speed or whathaveyou, I just won't let myself dismount (if possible, of course).

For longer hills, set yourself small goals. I fixate on an object ahead (say, a speed limit sign or tree) and tell myself I need to make it there. Then I rinse and repeat until I'm at the top.

Try to stay in the saddle as long as possible. When you're standing you've got the weight of your body to help you with those pedals, but it will burn your energy at a higher rate. In other words, It'll give you a nice boost but after a minute or two you will burn out, especially if you're not used to standing. Of course, on short steep hills sometimes it's worth it to just stand and get up it as quick as possible (these type of hills are the ones I usually stand for... get as much speed going into it and then stand for a few pedals to get to the top)

If the hill is really long and sustained, something I've noticed that helps a bit when I'm at my limit (thinking about stopping) is to stand for a few strokes. Not enough to kill myself, but enough to use some different muscles. THen sit back down and continue. There is one hill around here that I have to do that several times on, and once you do the up/down thing once or twice it becomes a bit less awkward. Doing this changing of positions seems to refresh my muscles by giving them a bit of a reprieve.

Of course, when it all comes down to it, it's just practice and figuring out what works for yourself. What I've found DOESN'T work for me is walking up a hill. Between the embaressment and the uncomfortableness of walking in my cleats, and the fact that it doesn't rest my muscles at all, I'd just as soon stop and let my legs rest than push my bike up a hill.

K.

[alpinerabbit]

I was going to post the below tips... then I did the following calculation:

Your grade is 500ft/0.25mi or 150m/400 m - you sure that's a 37% grade (or more if you say it's less than 025 mi)?
Frankly that would stump me. I've only ever done 20%. TBH I've never even SEEN a 37%. Can Cars still drive that?




Yes, don't stop. If you have clipless pedals, concentrate on pushing and pulling, still trying to use all muscles at your disposal even if you are reeeal slow. I seem to notice it eases a bit on the "help - no oxygen" state I get into.
If you must stop, look out for a turnout where you can clip in in the "flat".
Don't look up. see the bit of road in front of you - just the distance to make you safe if you expect any other traffic.
And another way to make a hill easy (welll, easier) for you - is to try one that is harder. Just once :D
Standing up - on a road bike - pull on the shifter horns, or whatever they are called.

[li10up]

What Kimmyt said. I'm still new to this myself but I am learning thanks to all the wonderful advice given here. I asked nearly the same question not long ago. I took the advice to just ride the hills. Now I go out looking forward to riding this one set of hills. I go out specifically to ride it once or twice. In just a couple of weeks I've found that I'm stronger on the flats, don't get tired as easily, the little hills I hardly even notice any more and I'm not always the last person up a hill when riding in a group.

I try to ride up the hill seated until my legs start to feel fatigued a bit, don't let them get totally wiped out, then I shift up (harder) one or two gears then stand for a count of 6 to 12 revolutions, then sit and shift back down (easier) a gear or two. I keep my hands on the hoods. It's amazing how much that actually helps "rest" your legs without being too hard on you aerobically. Don't shift to an easy gear too soon or you'll just lose all the momentum you had. I agree, don't look at the top of the hill, just far enough ahead to hold your line and see any road hazards. It really does seem to flatten out the hill. Don't worry about your cadence at first. Just use your body as a guide, make it work but don't exhaust it. Once you find a gear you can make it up a hill in, next time try making it up in one higher (harder) gear. It will make your legs stronger. Now I don't have to go down to my smallest chainring in front (I have a triple). Also on the flats I'll shift up a few gears and work on standing. I've found that helps me when I stand on the hills.

On the 47 mile ride I did two weekends ago I was riding with a friend who has been riding for years. She's loves to mtn bike and just leaves me on the hills so I know she can climb. She actually told me she couldn't keep up with me on the hills on the last half of the ride. That made me feel pretty good. It does get easier. You just have to get to the point where you don't HATE hills. I don't like 'em a whole lot but at least I don't HATE them anymore (well at least most of the time I don't). They can really give you a great sense of accomplishment.

[laughlaugh18]

I was going to post the below tips... then I did the following calculation:

Your grade is 500ft/0.25mi or 150m/400 m - you sure that's a 37% grade (or more if you say it's less than 025 mi)?
Frankly that would stump me. I've only ever done 20%. TBH I've never even SEEN a 37%. Can Cars still drive that?

I know the hill Cindi's talking about - it's really, really steep.

Cin, you know my best solution - tie the dogs to the front of the bike and yell, "Mush" :D

[redrhodie]

Hi Cindi,
Here's an exercise that may help (other than just riding the monsters). Step up onto a bench that's knee high (your thigh should be parallel to the floor). Try not to push off of your standing leg. Lower back down. 15 reps each leg to start. Don't alternate legs in between reps.

[E2theD]

Are any of these your street? And I thought we had steep streets in SF! :eek:

http://www.walkinginla.com/2004/Feb15/EldredSt.html

Sorry, no advise but maybe walk your bike up?!?

:p Erin

[JoyfulGirl]

I'm just rotten with hills but I did have to chime in and second the not hating hills being a big thing for me. If I had to be 100% honest. I hate em. I loathe them. I'd rather live on some nice flat plains while on my bike. But not giving in to that and not whining is the #1 thing for me. I holler out "I LOVE AN INCLINE" then chant it under my breath til I make it to the top oh so slowly. I've been doing this less than a week and it's really not that I'm magically stronger in the last 5 days. I just refuse to keep living in dread of hills. It's just an incline. It will not ruin my ride. I will not feel bad about my skills and ability because of it. Hopefully with enough self brainwashing and better fitness it'll be true.. In the mean time I don't have that sense of dread, the horrible feeling of inability, I -will- take that incline. I OWN that incline.

Attitude seems to be everything with biking, for me.

[chartman64]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I really appreciate it! Although it's clearly going to take a lot of time and a lot of work, it's really nice to read that I'm apparently doing the right things. (Other than hitching the dogs to the front and yelling Mush -- sorry, I love my dogs a lot more than I love my legs!)

E2theD: I laughed when I saw that web site -- it's not that street, but it's very, very close to there -- just a few blocks away, really. I'll see if I can get a picture of my monster and share it with you all. My last car couldn't get up that hill unless I turned off the air conditioner.:eek:

Cindi

[MomOnBike]

From experience:

There is quite a bit to be said for losing a few pounds off the bio-load and putting a new teeny-tiny granny on the bike. (It weighs less, doncha know :rolleyes: )

Remember, hills are kind of like dogs. You just have to show them who's the the Alpha - and keep showing them - over, and over, and over...

[GreenLady]

I also found that it's usually easier (for me, at least) to power up a hill rather than go slower, even in the same gear. It might be a matter of conserving momentum. It seems a little strange, but it works.

[armanns]

I saw something the other day on my commute home that I would like to try. A guy was riding in a high gear on the flats--in other words he was off the seat, doing a standing pedal.

Of course the balance issues are different but this should create some of the same aerobic needs as cycling up hill.

Quillfred


My best pal has been riding 25 years-She is often out of the saddle on flats, and she can climb any mountain just about without sweating or even breathing that hard. (and she rides a 37 pound Rivendell) I have ridden behind her for 3 years now. I have begun to do what she does, high gear, out of the saddle. It builds your core. especially with aheadwind, and it helps you with climbing eventually.It helped me.

[Dok-torr]

I read an article in one of the british mags recently that pointed out something really obvious that I had never thought of before, about the need to be good at climbing:

To gain ground on another rider (to catch up a group to sit on or in a race) you need to put in 8 times the power to go twice as fast; assuming most of the slowing factors are wind and road resistance. But to gain on a climb since you are battling gravity more than wind and road resistance (of course they still play a part but proportionally less) you only have to double your power to double your speed.
Pretty big pay-off don't you think?
Get good on hills and you will always arrive home fresher than your pals.
(Armstrong and Basso both started to win once they got good at climbing! Hey I can dream!)

[chartman64]

I'm not sure the camera quite captures its horrors, :eek: but here are two shots from the bottom looking up and the top looking down of 2/3 of my monster hill. At the top, it levels out, then makes a sharp left turn and then there's an S-shaped not quite as steep incline which curves around to the very top of the hill.

BTW -I'm mathematically challenged - how does one determine the percentage of incline/grade?

[SalsaMTB]

Once you find a gear you can make it up a hill in, next time try making it up in one higher (harder) gear. It will make your legs stronger.


I have a couple mountain bike magazine at home that say the same thing. When training, put it in a harder gear and try to muscle your way up. You probably won't make it at first, but it will build your muscles so you eventually will. They said just always going in the same gear and spinning like crazy will not improve your climbing. I haven't tried it, but I want to, it makes sense. They also recommended not doing this on group rides...cause it will slow you down :)

So, shift into a harder gear and muscle your way up as far as you can. Also, try some interval training, that would probably help also!

[Grog]

I'm not sure the camera quite captures its horrors, :eek: but here are two shots from the bottom looking up and the top looking down of 2/3 of my monster hill. At the top, it levels out, then makes a sharp left turn and then there's an S-shaped not quite as steep incline which curves around to the very top of the hill.

BTW -I'm mathematically challenged - how does one determine the percentage of incline/grade?

Seeing the pics, my reflex was getting up from my chair :) That's definitely a hill I'd stand on, unless it would go on for more than, say, half a mile.

To measure the incline %, just know how much elevation you gain in how much distance. Example: if you gain 5 meters elevation over 100 meters distance, that's a 5% incline, 50 meters over 1 km is 5% too, whereas 100 meters over 1km is 10%. The metric system makes this much easier to calculate!! :)

[kelownagirl]

BTW -I'm mathematically challenged - how does one determine the percentage of incline/grade?


I use this website to automatically calculate the incline.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

And I usually get the changes in elevation and the distance from google earth which someone kindly recommended!

barb

[kelownagirl]

BTW -I'm mathematically challenged - how does one determine the percentage of incline/grade?


I use this website to automatically calculate the incline.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

And I usually get the changes in elevation and the distance from google earth which someone kindly recommended!

barb

[li10up]

I'm not sure the camera quite captures its horrors, :eek: but here are two shots from the bottom looking up and the top looking down of 2/3 of my monster hill. At the top, it levels out, then makes a sharp left turn and then there's an S-shaped not quite as steep incline which curves around to the very top of the hill.
Oooh, oooh, ooooh I want to try that hill! It would probably kick my butt but trying it every day for awhile would definately make me a much better climber!! That is one kick @ss hill!

[chartman64]

OK - downloaded Google Earth, checked the values -- apparently nowhere near as steep as I thought. I ran the figures in the grade/incline calculator and my monster hill is actually only a 15% incline for a tenth of a mile.

[copaiba]

a 15% incline is somthin' to train on. is that a stop sign at the bottom of the hill?
i'm such a chicken on the descent......

[petals]

First-mashing is a waste of muscle (my opinion)
Second-weights, resistance training, squats what ever excercise that works for you- build your legs!!
Third- no shame in the snake!!! the last technique we use (hubby, brother and some friends) before we decide to dismount the bike on steep inclines. the snake is going back and forth across the road in the pattern a snake would use to gain a little speed and rest the legs.

We ride our bikes in the White Mountains of Maine and have found a few good techniques.

1st- lightweight bikes lots of gears!! Downshift as you need comfort -no mashing. As someone else mentioned shift up a few and stand for a bit, when you sit shift down as you need. Try to keep a bit in reserve. You can use this a few times on steep hills.

2nd- spin up sitting up in control without losing momentum straight not bouncing in your seat!

3rd- the snake!!! It is less shame than walking!!

It all works for me.

[Dogmama]

First-mashing is a waste of muscle (my opinion)
Second-weights, resistance training, squats what ever excercise that works for you- build your legs!!


Agree 100%. Mashing trashes your legs and can hurt your knees. Keep pedaling in a circle. You may have to shift to easier gears than normal but once you get it (teach your legs - it's call muscle memory) you will fly up inclines.

Bulgarian split squats. Try it - you don't need a gym. C'mon. I see you out there. Drop the donut & follow me:

First, put a chair parallel to a wall, table, etc., so you can balance yourself. Stand with your back a couple of feet from the chair. Bend one leg & place the top of your foot on the chair. Get ready to reach for the table/wall, etc. Now, lunge with your opposite leg (that would be the one on the floor.) Don't let your knee travel past the top of your foot & practice pushing back with your glute. Great for quads, your core & your booty.

Seated hamstring curls, if you have access to a gym. Best thing that mimics pulling back on the pedal.

Of course, the best way to get stronger climbing hills is to climb hills. ;)

[Bad JuJu]

Dogmama--thanks for the exercise tip.

Chartman64--that hill looks scarier looking down than looking up--yikes!:eek:

I've been following a particular cycling fitness program that suggests "pulling up on the handlebars" when you're pedaling hard, particularly on hills (in the saddle, anyway). When I've tried this, it seems to work OK on the downstroke, but if I try to do it while maintaining a nice, round pedal stroke, my bike wants to wander all over the road on the upstroke--that is, I can't seem to pull on the bars AND pull up and back smoothly on the pedal. So do any of you do this pulling up on the bars when pedaling hard on hills, or does this just sound like some idiosyncracy in the program I'm using?

By the way, the program is outlined in the book 7-Week Cycling for Fitness by Chris Sidwell, and I'm using it to get back into shape after being off my bike for a long time. I like the program generally, but this pulling up thing has me perplexed. Any ideas?

[RoadRaven]

The best way to get better on hills is to climb more hills.

Workouts at the gym will make your muscles strong... for working out at the gym...
Example: Lance Armstrong doesn't climb at a cadance of 85 by working out at the gym, doing squats or whatever... he did/does it by climbing.
Squats etc will augment your muscle power... but hill reps are the best way to improve on hills.

I suggest hill reps once a week for someone my age... you don't over-stress your knees that way, and you give your body the time to recover (someone younger might do hill reps twice a week)

Like Delta suggests, speed at the bottom can make you faster up the initial part of the hill... I always endeavour to use my momentum to carry me up faster than I can climb.

As Delta and Kimmy also point out, get in the right gear... avoid trying major shifts between the front chain rings during a climb as you will be much more likely to drop your chain if you change gears in mid-climb.

Staying seated is actually more efficient for most people, and if you are newish to riding, then stand with caution - and only near the top of the climb, because until you get used to standing it can be more exhausting to sit down again and try and grind the rest of the way up.

However, my partner is like Armanns friend and he will often ride with me standing - because I go so slow. However, in a race he mashes his way up a hill seated in a big gear between 24kph and 36kph - depending on the gradient he will stand as/when it gets very steep - staying in the big gear still.

A golden rule for hills is NEVER walk. Get in a low gear, set your own rythym and forget what others do. Ride to your rythym because if you try to keep up with others your will blow your heart-rate. If you must stop on a hill, fine, stop, rest a minute or two, then hop back on and keep going (you may have to start downhill and then turn to come back up after you have clipped in). Never walking gives you a huge psychological advantage in your own headspace.

Like Mom says... weight makes a huge difference... each kilogram (2 pounds) we carry makes about 6 seconds slower over each kilometre... so if you are commuting and carrying loads of stuff (or like me and need to drop another 20kgs) then you will be slower up a hill.

Good luck and have fun... remember the great thing about going up hills is the coming down the other side! Woohoo!

[Dogmama]

I've been following a particular cycling fitness program that suggests "pulling up on the handlebars" when you're pedaling hard, particularly on hills (in the saddle, anyway).

If you're standing, you'll pull on the handlebars a little. Seated? Not really. In fact, you should try to keep the rest of your body as relaxed as possible & conserve your energy for your legs.

Envision the power coming from your hips when you're pedaling in a circle. Your hips are the beginning of each pedal stroke.

When the going gets tough, you may automatically pull a little on the handlebars. I try to minimize that, but sometimes you need to engage your back a little (which happens when you pull the handlebars) to crest a hill.

[RoadRaven]

I've been following a particular cycling fitness program that suggests "pulling up on the handlebars" when you're pedaling hard, particularly on hills (in the saddle, anyway).

.... but this pulling up thing has me perplexed. Any ideas?

Hmmm... I missed this bit when replying earlier... well done Dogmama on picking it up...

I find I almost wrench the bars when going up a steep hill... I really use them a leverege and throw my weight around on them...

Same in a "sprint" situation (though what I do and the speed I go at hardly constitutes a sprint :p ) ... I stand and throw the bike from side to side.

So I think thats what you/Sidwell are talking about...
I suggest you watch some top racers coming in for sprints or climbing hills (if you dont have anyone local, then something like the Giro or Le tour highlights are readily available and would show you the technique employed - using handlebars - to optimise power output

[Grog]

I know it feels more natural to pull (and it feels good too) but I was taught we should actually push (when seated). It makes sense to me: you want to have more traction, not less, right? Although it could also help having more traction to have more weight on the rear wheel?? :confused: Anyway, at least it opens up your lungs...

[Bad JuJu]

I'm familiar with the concept of moving the bike from side to side when doing a standing climb--I guess that helps to balance the force of hard pedaling. I've seen that and done it, too. But for seated climbing, Grog's idea of pushing seems to make sense.

Hmmm, sounds like I need to ride some hills today. :eek: