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uforgot
05-25-2006, 04:30 PM
I was at a local resale shop last week, and there was an old bike. Looked like someone used a spray can of paint on it. The shifters said Campagnolo, so since it was $6 I bought it. The derailer says suntour and compe-v. Brake levers are Weinmann, fork is Naniwa I've tried to get some of the paint off to find numbers and all I can find is 6360 on the seat tube towards the bottom. There was a plastic piece holding the brake wires together and it turned out to be celeste with what looks like REC and then italy under it. Any chance this is a Bianchi, and how do I determine what it is? I've taken off most of the paint and can't find any serial numbers other than 6360. The sprayed paint is navy blue and under that is a greenish yellow. Anyone know where I can find out more about this? Thanks!

Trek420
05-25-2006, 07:06 PM
well, multiple spray painting could mean someone knew they should keep it well painted but not how.....or it could be someone who did not know the beauty of celeste green and prefer spray paint....or it could be a hot bike someone was trying to disguise.

Bikes have a BIN number, like a VIN number on a car. I think it is underneath the bottom bracket on most. Locate that and there are sites that list hot bikes.

I'm converting a Motobecane I found literally on top of a pile of junk by the road to a freewheel. The first thing I did was do a search. My LBS does the bikes for the local bike cops so he used their resources too.

Nothing came up.

We figure someone took it out of the garage where it sat since the '70's to save now on gas, not knowing simple upkeep it quickly had problems, they tossed it out.

They probably did not read this:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=6861

Could be the same for yours.

If the bike fits and you like it, powdercoating is an inexpensive way to repaint. You'll loose any decals but they are gone anyway. If it's Bianchi it's probably steel and water is the enemy of your potential life-time steel frame. So you must keep it protected and that means paint.

With powder coat the bike will be stripped, you see if the painting masks any dings or rust and...you get to pick the color too!

DebW
05-25-2006, 07:09 PM
In the mid 70s, many bikes of different brands had those components. Weinmann brakes (centerpulls were higher quality than sidepulls then) were very common, as were Suntour derailleurs. These weren't bottom of the line bikes, but one or two models up from the bottom and pretty reasonable quality for the time. These components were pretty standard on bikes in the $125-$150 price range, or perhaps even an entry-level racing bike of around $200. There were quite a few Italian brands then, so it may be impossible to be sure which unless you can find a decal. 6360 was a grade of steel tubing, I believe, used on something similar to a Raleigh Gran Prix. What is the weight of this bike? What is the crankset? Cottered or cotterless? Freewheel brand and tooth range? The Suntour-V handled a narrow range, so I'd guess maybe a 14-24 freewheel. I worked in a bike shop when these things were on the market, and we sold Raleigh, Motobecane, Peugeot, and occassionally some odd Italian brands. With photos of components I might be able to provide a bit more info, but probably can't id the bike.

Trek420
05-25-2006, 07:12 PM
oops, sorry for the double post

uforgot
05-25-2006, 10:05 PM
Thanks for all the help. I have been trying to find the serial numbers but no luck. Nothing on the bottom bracket. Could be filed off?

As for the cranks, they are Nervar and are cottered. The freewheel goes 16-17-20-24-28. According to the park tool website it needs the suntour 2 prong freewheel tool. Not that I'm going to remove it, I just wanted to identify it. The lever on the hub says A A Atom. Gee, thanks for any help. My motivation is to keep it fairly close to what it was when I clean it up and have it painted.

Thanks again to everyone who replied. It is appreciated!

DebW
05-26-2006, 05:11 AM
I've got a 2-prong Suntour freewheel puller if you need it (and the Suntour 4-prong as well, plus 2 styles of Regina). You will need to remove it to repack the hub - which you really should do because old grease turns into hard gunk. That freewheel must have been custom to have a small cog of 16T. I remember Atom hubs and Nervar cranksets. I believe the Raleigh Competition used a cotterless Nervar crankset in around 1974. Does yours really have cotter pins? If cotterless, it is likely that you will need a crank puller specific to Nervar, as there was no standard in such things then. If cottered, you may never get the pins out and would thus be unable to repack the bottom bracket. I'd love to see pics of the crankset, brakes, freewheel, shift levers. For awhile, Suntour made their shift levers work backwards, ie. the spring on the front derailleur moved the chain to the large cog. It didn't really work very well.

uforgot
05-26-2006, 05:50 AM
I must have hit the wrong key...the small one IS 14. I also found a website that can identify the year of the derailleur. According to their chart, the rear one was manufactured in October 1975 and the front in July 1976. I already removed the cotter pins. They came out easily and I followed Sheldon Brown's directions. Two whacks and they were clean hits so the nut goes back on. It's all apart except for the hub, and I'll take your advice and remove it and clean it. Didn't think about old gunk there. Thanks for the offer of a freewheel remover, but with postage and all I'll just invest in one. Seems they are only about $6.95. Wait, that's more than I paid for the bike!lol I also have a good relationship with the local lbs. I can always take it to him if I get stuck. Oh, and I forgot to mention that the tires are 27" by 1 1/4. I'll take some pics of the parts. About 6 months ago I also got a Motobecane at the same place for $10. It's the lady's step-through style and I can read all the serial numbers on it. I'm saving it to make it into a single speed someday. I figure this is the best way to learn about bikes, but I will probably learn just enough to be dangerous.

It is really interesting that you worked in a shop in the 70s. In the 70s, I was told that women had no place in high school instrumental music...(I started my working life as a band director). I would imagine that a bike shop would be very weird territory for a woman back then. How did you get involved in that, is that what you are doing now, and how on earth can you remember so much? I looked and looked on the net for that 6360 stamp and couldn't turn up anything, and you just popped it right out! Thanks so much, you have been such a valuable resource!

DebW
05-26-2006, 07:14 AM
You were lucky with the cotter pins. Those things can get really stuck. I have an old Raleigh 3-speed I haven't gotten them out of. Our shop used to have a wooden tool with 15 inch lever arms that would pull cotter pins pretty easily. 27 x 1 1/4 tires were the norm. 700c was found only on sewups until maybe the mid 80s.

I got a summer job in a bike shop in 1973, when I was 16, in Florissant, Missouri. The pay was $1.50/hour. I worked there for 4 summers, plus some weekends during the school year. A couple male friends of mine worked there, so I asked for a job. I wasn't interested in any typical female jobs and wanted to learn about bikes. There was a bike boom at the time (1st energy crisis in the US) and help was needed. I think the owner expected that I would mostly do sales and replace his wife who was pregnant and would have to stop working soon, but I said I wanted to learn mechanics, and he started training me. I learned fast and two years later had the best job in the place - assembling, adjusting, and testing all the new bikes we sold. It was often hard to be taken seriously as a mechanic because I was female. Customers who came in the shop were usually convinced pretty quickly (maybe it was the grease on my T-shirt, cutoffs, and hands), but phone customers were always a problem. Several times per day I would answer the phone with "Florissant Cycle" and hear "Can I talk to a mechanic?" Usually I would answer "What do you need?" and satisfy all their questions, but sometimes I couldn't take it any more and would hand the phone to a guy.

I left Missouri to attend MIT in the fall of 1974, though continued my summers in the bike shop until 1976. I graduated from MIT and have been doing atmospheric science ever since, though I still work on my own bikes and those of friends. I'd love to go back to a bike shop someday (I actually got an almost serious offer last year when buying wheel-building parts). The way my science funding is going, I could get my wish in a couple of years. As to how I remember obscure details about bikes from 30 years ago, well, guess that's just how my brain is built, or those are the details that I like to remember.

Trek420
05-26-2006, 07:59 AM
What are Cottered cranks?

I think I know but don't want to sound dumb when I go in to the LBS to talk about the freewheel fixer upper.

uforgot
05-26-2006, 09:09 AM
I got a summer job in a bike shop in 1973, when I was 16, in Florissant, Missouri.


Ok, this is weird, in 1973 I was 18 and living by Fenton (South County area) and in college (Cape) I dated a guy from Black Jack, right by Florissant. My aunt and uncle owned the Dairy Queen in Village Square shopping center back then. Did you ever go there? I've spent a lot of time in Florissant, but my mall of choice was South County. I even had something stolen out of my car at Northwest Plaza back then, when it was all outside. Remember that?

Atmospheric science? I'm now a physics teacher, although I certainly didn't attend MIT. Wow, that's terrific! Attention to details and remembering them seems reasonable for an MIT grad!

Do you ever make it back to St. Louis? We have a new beautiful stadium now. What a coincidence, both of us growing up in St. Louis!

uforgot
05-26-2006, 09:13 AM
What are Cottered cranks?

I think I know but don't want to sound dumb when I go in to the LBS to talk about the freewheel fixer upper.

HA, I didn't know what they were either until yesterday. I did a search on every component I took off on sheldonbrown.com and the park tools website. Some great pics and I learned a lot, just by looking up each part. They both have pics of them, which is better than trying to explain it. All I know is mine came off clean in two whacks and I did a happy dance. Apparently, and DebW supports this, I was lucky!

DebW
05-26-2006, 09:21 AM
What are Cottered cranks?

I think I know but don't want to sound dumb when I go in to the LBS to talk about the freewheel fixer upper.

It's a way of attaching the crank arms to the bottom bracket spindle with metal pins about 8-9 mm in diameter. One side of the spindle shaft is flattened to match the flat tapered part of the pin. You slide on the crank arms, put the pin through the hole in the arms so the flat side of the pin matches the spindle flat, pound them in lightly, and screw on a nut. Often they would get munged after lots of riding and then the crank arms would develop play. Or they would get stuck and be really hard to get out. And everytime you removed them you had to readjust the front derailleur because the crank ended up in a slightly different place. Sure glad they are a thing of the past. But if you've got an old Motobecane Mixte from around 1970, it probably has them.

Here's a page from Sheldon Brown:
http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html

DebW
05-26-2006, 09:33 AM
Ok, this is weird, in 1973 I was 18 and living by Fenton (South County area) and in college (Cape) I dated a guy from Black Jack, right by Florissant. My aunt and uncle owned the Dairy Queen in Village Square shopping center back then. Did you ever go there? I've spent a lot of time in Florissant, but my mall of choice was South County. I even had something stolen out of my car at Northwest Plaza back then, when it was all outside. Remember that?

Do you ever make it back to St. Louis? We have a new beautiful stadium now. What a coincidence, both of us growing up in St. Louis!

I had a friend who lived in Black Jack and spent time there (biking from Florissant). I do know the Village Square shopping center and Northwest Plaza (I didn't know it was an indoor mall now). My parents moved from Florissant to St. Charles about 10 years ago, and I visit them once or twice a year. I'll probably be there in August.

plantluvver
05-31-2006, 12:00 AM
DebW,

It enrages me that you are having funding difficulties in atmospheric science. That is only one of the most critical feilds right now, with global warming. (Oh pardon me, It's not proven yet.)

I was studying Environmental Science, but got too depressed. I'd write papers and learn things that I really didn;t want to know about, and not have solutions for problems. I went back to math. I still have problems with depression, but at least math lets me escape from worrying about the world.

I understand your remembering everything about bikes. I am the same way with biology, especially names of plants.

Mary

Trek420
05-31-2006, 05:56 AM
DebW "Sure glad they are a thing of the past. But if you've got an old Motobecane Mixte from around 1970, it probably has them."

yep, ah, so that's why my LBS has them sorta off to the side on the bike. Have to talk with them about semi-affordable replacement. But the Mixte is a keeper I think, she's gonna fit me and be the "urban assualt bike".

Planlover "It enrages me that you are having funding difficulties in atmospheric science. That is only one of the most critical fields right now, with global warming"

Oh, that's never OT here. Anytime the weather is too bad to ride I blame Dubya for not signing the Kyoto treaty. But one thing that heartens me is this saying

"Everytime I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H. G. Wells

Makes a good footer dontcha think?

DebW
05-31-2006, 06:56 AM
DebW "Sure glad they are a thing of the past. But if you've got an old Motobecane Mixte from around 1970, it probably has them."

yep, ah, so that's why my LBS has them sorta off to the side on the bike. Have to talk with them about semi-affordable replacement. But the Mixte is a keeper I think, she's gonna fit me and be the "urban assualt bike".


I didn't mean to imply that cotter pins are completely awful, just that modern cotterless cranks are much better. Cotter pins were used for decades and generally worked OK. You do need to remove them periodically to repack the bottom bracket. And you should have a spare set of pins because sometimes they get munged as you remove them. If you or your LBS can remove the current set of cotterpins and the crank and BB are otherwise in good shape, there is no pressing reasons to replace the whole setup. If you extract the cotter pins once a year to service your BB, they should never get stuck.

BTW, cranksets that take cotter pins are made of steel, not alloy. Steel is not as stiff and the chainrings can get out of round. You may also notice them flexing when you stand on the bike. Rotate the crank and look at the chainring wobble. Sometimes it's bad enough to cause the front derailleur to scrape. The good thing is that if the chainrings get out of round, you can bend them back with something like a large (18") screwdriver. It's kind of like truing a wheel with brute force. Gee, now I'm feeling nostalgic - never thought I'd miss steel cranksets. If you lived near me, Trek420, I'd be at your house tomorrow truing those chainrings.

plantluvver
05-31-2006, 12:53 PM
Quote:

"Everytime I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H. G. Wells

That made my day, maybe even my week.

I feel like I am in my proper little pond, here.

I don't feel like a misfit. A few weeks ago, I was on a women's cruise, and one woman was discussing here sails. It felt so good to here all the technical terms come out of a woman's mouth, and women doing shoptalk. With men, there was often a question of why they were offering to help me. They sometimes expected a reward. And dealing with husbands of jealous wives, I was regarded as a threat, because why was I going along on a caving trip, and spending the weekend with five guys. And all I wanted to do was get underground, not under the sheets!

I LOVE it when you gals talk dirty bikes to me!

Mary

Rai Sue
07-05-2006, 08:14 PM
Hey Trek420,

what kind of components are you pulling off of your motobecane mixte for the fixte project? I am always in serious fear that something on mine will break and I'll have to scramble. Well, that I will be in the middle of nowhere and I'll have to track down a swiss bottom bracket, or something stupid like that...

Also, gals, i got an old bike with cottered cranks, and found it was not hard at all to switch them out (despite scepticism from the bike shop guy).

What I did was I brought in the old spindle (for the french thread bb) to a bike store that has used parts. I sized it up to a used square-taper spindle, for my replacement. then i got some used cranks of a _slightly_ more modern vintage to match, and no more steel cranks to weigh me down.

Trek420
07-05-2006, 09:02 PM
DebW "Gee, now I'm feeling nostalgic - never thought I'd miss steel cranksets. If you lived near me, Trek420, I'd be at your house tomorrow truing those chainrings."

well, you could always move :p

I can see it now "Dear family? Dear job? I have to move to CA, there's this 20 year old French bike, we met online....I know you'll say it can't last but she's the most beautiful shade of light green, I must true her chainrings":p

Rai Sue, stay tuned, the Motobecane kinda got sidetracked while I got new wheels for the commuter. since that's the bike i use often the mixte-fixie went on the back burner.

Trek420
09-25-2007, 12:17 PM
My LBS just called and the Mixte Fixie is ready. If the traffic and forced overtime Gods are with me I might pick it up tonight (if not he's off to Vegas for the Bike expo, and I'll see her later).

Pictures...... :) doesn't do the color justice

DebW
09-25-2007, 12:57 PM
My LBS just called and the Mixte Fixie is ready. If the traffic and forced overtime Gods are with me I might pick it up tonight (if not he's off to Vegas for the Bike expo, and I'll see her later).

Pictures as soon as I get 'em. :)

Woo Hoo!! Pictures!! Pictures!!

I want details. Did it keep the steel cottered crankset?

Trek420
09-25-2007, 02:34 PM
Woo Hoo!! Pictures!! Pictures!!

I want details. Did it keep the steel cottered crankset?

I don't know yet :cool: Are cottered cranksets a good thing?

BleeckerSt_Girl
09-25-2007, 02:53 PM
Here's a little blurb on old Motobecanes:
http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2007/06/motobecanes.html
and
http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2007/09/good-old-bike.html

DebW
09-25-2007, 03:46 PM
I don't know yet :cool: Are cottered cranksets a good thing?

No, but they're vintage. And if you kept the steel cottered chainrings, someday I might show up at your house with this (http://www.bicycletool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=16) and true those babies. OTOH, if it's now a fixie, you won't really care too much if they go out of true.

Trek420
09-25-2007, 07:10 PM
It doesn't have the cottered cranks, I can probably get them if you want 'em?

KnottedYet
09-25-2007, 07:18 PM
Oh, yeah... DuckOnWheels and I are gonna love riding that Motobecane!:D

Trek420
09-25-2007, 08:12 PM
Yeah? :) :cool: C'mon down then. :D Sorry this one's a little blurry but check out the bars.

KnottedYet
09-25-2007, 08:24 PM
moustache or albatross? (I'm guessing they're Nittos)

Is she home? Where is she parked? Does she have a name, or is she still the Mixte Fixte?

DirtDiva
09-25-2007, 08:30 PM
The shininess of that brand new chain is kinda scaring me. ;)

Trek420
09-25-2007, 08:51 PM
moustache or albatross? (I'm guessing they're Nittos)

Is she home? Where is she parked? Does she have a name, or is she still the Mixte Fixte?

shes still needs pedals, I was just visiting but the shop was all abuzz about her. No new name yet.

DebW
09-26-2007, 02:52 AM
It doesn't have the cottered cranks, I can probably get them if you want 'em?

Naw, I've got one on my 3-speed. Did you get the flip-flop hub? I'm guessing so since you got a rear brake. Are the wheels 27 inch or 700c?

Trek420
09-26-2007, 05:32 AM
Naw, I've got one on my 3-speed. Did you get the flip-flop hub? I'm guessing so since you got a rear brake. Are the wheels 27 inch or 700c?

OK, I'll ask Chris Robinson (Hi Chris!!) if he still has them. He donates spare, replaced parts to Trips for Kids store. I'll find out if he still has 'em and PM Rai Sue. I think they are 700c and yes, it's the flip-flop hub. It's on the freewheel side now where I think it'll stay for a while.