chainring: triple vs. compact double

[dachshund]

I'm researching getting a bike, after being away from it for several years. It was pouring rain last weekend, but I went to a LBS anyway (talking, no riding). I mentioned wanting easy climbing gears since I'll be getting in shape. He recommended a compact double chainring instead of the triple.

This makes sense to me as being less complicated. I'm wondering what the pros & cons are. (I wasn't thinking fast enough to quiz him on the spot). Does either one result in losing gears on either end of the range? I understand that there would be fewer combinations, but it seems that you'd get the same range. Would the double just give you larger jumps from one gear to the next?

Thanks in advance.
Amy

[SadieKate]

Amy, where and how far do you plan on riding? All the way up Diablo, Hamilton, Tam? Big mountains? Long miles? Northern California (except in the Central Valley) is not easy riding.

I have triples on all my bikes. My 26 chainring x 32 cassette is really nice on those 17-22% grades. If you have healthy knees, low fat percentage, and a strong climbing ability, a compact might be fine, but I personally couldn't do it as I'm older, not so lean and have had 4 knee ops.

Have you read up on gears and used the gear calculator on www.sheldonbrown.com? You can figure out the gear inches of your current bike and then enter the gearing you're thinking about. You will understand the entire argument around doubles and triples better if you understand gear inches.

[Susie]

A few months ago I bought a new bike with a compact double. Previously, I had a triple. I can say that the double does not have the range of gears that the triple has -- I was missing my lowest granny gears and certain a couple of gears at the other end of the spectrum. The most noticable difference for me was the shifting of the chain on the chainrings. The difference in going from the large chainring to the small is so big that I have to crank on the back gears before making the change, otherwise my legs are just spinning with no traction.

2 weeks ago I was hit by a truck and my bike is totalled (see the "My bike is totalled" thread in Open Topics). I am currently selecting all of the parts for my new bike build. I have decided to go back to a triple. I really miss my granny gears on the big climbs around here, but also, I miss being able to pedal on decents and hit 45+ mph (I know -- I'm really stupid and crazy that way). I just can't get my speed up with the gearing on the double. But that said, if it weren't for the crash, I would be sticking with my double.

You might want to test ride bikes with both options and see what you like. Be sure to throw some steep climbs into your rides.

Susie

[maillotpois]

Triple, triple, triple!!!

I couldn't stand to lose gears at either end of the range. I need my granny for going up the stuff we have around here and I need something super heavy duty for powering on the flats and rollers. I don't necessarily think a compact is less "complicated" and in fact some folks report the compact don't shift as smoothly because you're jumping so many gears.

The weight gain (compact v. triple) is negligible and remedied in my case by perhaps one fewer rice krispy treat a week. :p

[dachshund]

I fully intend to do hills, but I think I'll pass on "big mountains" right at first. But seriously, I really loved the longer rides and the more interesting routes have hills, no getting around it. (I used to like hills, actually... Sick, huh? Older now, we'll see.) I will have to gradually build up to anything challenging, and I want to make it as enjoyable as possible.

So the term "compact double" means "compact", in that you're not getting the granny gears? If that's true, then I have my answer. I also wondered about the geometry and ... what Susie said. Thanks!

[caligurl]

another triple user! i seem to do a lot of climbing rides.... so i end up using my triple! the bike shop tried to talk me into a compact.. but hubby looked up the gears.. and to get the easier gears... i lost too much at the top end for descents/flats... i didn't want to compromise.. heck... i already spin out on descents with what i have! to think i'd have been spinning out even sooner with a compact? no way!

i think a LOT of the pushiness with compact for the guys is their ego.. they can't stand to think they need a triple.. so they will lose gears on their top end to get those easier gears... i don't have that ego problem... i have a triple... and i use it!

[maillotpois]

i think a LOT of the pushiness with compact for the guys is their ego.. they can't stand to think they need a triple.. so they will lose gears on their top end to get those easier gears... i don't have that ego problem... i have a triple... and i use it!

Agreed! I love a guy who's secure enough to use a triple.... (My DH and Baldino for example...)

[caligurl]

OH! forgot to add.... i'm not getting any younger... and it's sure nice to be able to downshift to an easier granny gear (or as i call them... my baby gears!) and save my knees!!!!!!

[SadieKate]

A touring triple (like a Sugino XD) is much more flexible and you can customize chainring size as you get more fit. You can also swap cassettes based on the terrain you ride.

I use a touring triple (26-36-48) for the big hills with the Bay Area girls and have an 11-32 cassette for those days. If I'm going to ride a flatter course, I'll swap the cassette to a 12-25. Not as big a range but more selections in a narrow window which is preferable if you aren't riding hills.

Cheaper to swap cassettes than cranksets. Just be sure to get a rear derailleur that can handle a large cassette.

[Bike Goddess]

Dachshund- Since you live in or around Walnut Creek, I too would recommend a triple. I've got two bikes and both have triples. I think you'll be glad for the range of gears you will get with this arrangement.

You might call REI in Concord and ask for Mick in the bike repair shop. He recently put a compact double on one of his bikes to see if he liked the arrangement. He's been riding for a long time on triples so he can give you some good advice. (He works part time, so you'll probably have to ask when he is around.) Be sure to tell him that Nancy from Benicia sent you- I ride with him and have a lot of respect for his opinions.

[dachshund]

Yep, I'm thinking the triple is the way to go. Thanks!
-Amy

[Geonz]

I have *only* used triples, so I waited to reply.

I don't go see my granny often ... but boy, am I glad she's there! We don't have hills around here, but I'm considered a strong climber (wind is great training for hills)... but I dunno, it just seems to make sense to be *able* to have more options.

Even with my triple on my first hybrid, I would run out of gears on the top end on the prairie with a good tailwind. My LBS dude said no, I didn't need a road bike :-) The 7500 FX with skinny tires would make me happy. It has...

[betagirl]

I have 2 triples, and I live in Chicago :D My theory is that I don't use the triple very often, but it's nice for it to be there when I need it.

[Nokomis]

wow, I actually like my compact! Just switched to it 2 weeks ago, and after yesterday's hills I didn't feel like I was missing a gear. Now, I'm a total n00b when it comes to gears and numbers - so I don't know how my lowest gear on my triple would have compared from a technical standpoint.

[bcipam]

i think a LOT of the pushiness with compact for the guys is their ego.. they can't stand to think they need a triple.. so they will lose gears on their top end to get those easier gears... i don't have that ego problem... i have a triple... and i use it!

And THERE in a nutshell is what a compact crank is all about!!!!!

[Lifesgreat]

Agreed! I love a guy who's secure enough to use a triple....

Amen! I love my triple man :rolleyes:

[kelownagirl]

Amen! I love my triple man :rolleyes:

OK, thanks for this thread you guys. I was just having this argument with hubby the other day. I have only been biking for two months after a 20 year hiatus and am quickly trying to get up to speed, so to speak, on all the new stuff that's out there. I am riding a MTB with slicks but lusting after a road bike. Hubby prefers MTBiking and so that's what I ended up buying. I have now decided that if I continue my new love for biking, I am definitely going to buy a road bike next year. Because I am still out fo shape and not strong on the hills, and there are lots around here, I thought I'd want to get a triple. He says "Road bikes don't have triples", rolling his eyes... I said, "So what? I'll look around and find one." I suspect it's just another thing he finds "uncool" :rolleyes: about my riding, similar to the "no carriers" rule (or whatever they're called now), and the "no fenders" rule (which seemed really dumb to me today when it rained for the last hour of our ride and I absolutely soaked from the muddy water rooster tail hitting me from in front and behind...).

I finally convinced him I at least needed a bike seat bag after he found himself having to carry all my stuff (cell phone, inhaler, snack bar, etc.) Some men.... argh... (Granted he is an avid mountain biker and doesn't want ANYTHING hanging on his bike that might get snagged on bushes etc..)

[SnappyPix]

Quote:
Originally Posted by caligurl

i think a LOT of the pushiness with compact for the guys is their ego.. they can't stand to think they need a triple.. so they will lose gears on their top end to get those easier gears... i don't have that ego problem... i have a triple... and i use it!

And THERE in a nutshell is what a compact crank is all about!!!!!

Sorry, but beg to differ.
Maybe there is an element of ego with some cyclists, but if you're serious about your cycling, ultimately it should be a question of the gear combinations you're comfortable with.
It seems to work for Ivan Basso ...

"A particularly interesting product from FSA to be launched for 2006 is the K-Force MegaExo Compact chainset. CSC's Ivan Basso used an FSA SLK Compact chainset with 50X36 chainring combination in last season's Giro d'Italia and Tour De France, riding to stage wins in the Giro and a superb runner-up spot behind seven time Tour winner Lance Armstrong in France. This marks the first time a rider using a compact chainset equipped bicycle has been on the podium in a Grand Tour."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/fsa/2006/2006.php

Obviously, Basso didn't choose the compact over a triple - but he chose a compact over a double - in the world of professional racing, this equates to the same cardinal sin - and it seems that many are now following in Basso's footsteps, rather than pointing and laughing at him.

[maillotpois]

Postal used triples on the Angliru in the Vuelta and people are talking about possibility of using triples for the Plan de Corones Wednesday.

When folks first started using compacts in pro racing (first one I heard of was Tyler Hamilton in the 2003 TdF), people did sort of scoff at that. But then looking at the results... more folks are going to compacts. Interesting that Basso is using it and Hamilton/CSC was first I am aware of to use it before. I think Bjarne Riis is brilliant.

[SnappyPix]

Saw "Overcoming" a few months ago - brilliant film, and I have had only the greatest admiration for Bjarne Riis since then.
I really hope that CSC wipe the boards at the Giro and the TdF.

[maillotpois]

I have Overcoming, and have not yet watched it. I did watch Hell on Wheels. Amazing. Love Zabel SO SO much.

[SnappyPix]

Yeah, saw Hell on Wheels too - Zabel comes across as such a sweet, sweet guy. Really hope he does well with Milram, as T-Mobile really shafted him.
He makes me laugh though, as every single photo I've seen of him, (especially in the Milram team colours), he looks as though his head has been stuck on someone else's body, and will start rocking from side to side like some sort of animation - I think it's his flat top hair cut!
Overcoming is a great insight into the human aspect of the riders, and how they battle to balance the physical and emotional aspects of their lives.
Sure you'll love it.

[jobob]

I have Overcoming, and have not yet watched it. Oooooh, when you've seen it, can I borrow it, pleeze pleeze pleeze? Unless of course it's a rental.

I could bring you back some DARK CHOCOLATE DIPPED FUDGE from SLC if that would sweeten the deal. As it were.

[maillotpois]

Oooooh, when you've seen it, can I borrow it, pleeze pleeze pleeze? Unless of course it's a rental.

I could bring you back some DARK CHOCOLATE DIPPED FUDGE from SLC if that would sweeten the deal. As it were.


Absolutely!! Would you like to also borrow Hell on Wheels?? It's fantastic. ALthough now I cannot get the Zabel as bobble head image out of my head (Thanks for that SnappyPix).

[SnappyPix]

Absolutely!! Would you like to also borrow Hell on Wheels?? It's fantastic. ALthough now I cannot get the Zabel as bobble head image out of my head (Thanks for that SnappyPix).

Maillotpois - No problem ...

Here's something to take your mind off it...

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9963/erik6hk.gif

Sigh. I have WAY too much time on my hands!

Is it just me, or does anyone else think the Milram riders look like they're wearing baby-grows?! (Not sure what you call them in the US?!)

[maillotpois]

OMG that is the funniest thing ever! Amazing. I am so impressed that you are able to do that.

[SnappyPix]

Erm, sorry, I seem to have gone a bit off topic (and a bit off the wall!).

Apologies!

[bcipam]

He says "Road bikes don't have triples", rolling his eyes... I said, "So what? I'll look around and find one." I suspect it's just another thing he finds "uncool" :rolleyes: about my riding, similar to the "no carriers" rule (or whatever they're called now), and the "no fenders" rule (which seemed really dumb to me today when it rained for the last hour of our ride and I absolutely soaked from the muddy water rooster tail hitting me from in front and behind...).

..)


Triples aren't just for newbie riders... Alt of very experienced riders have come to love triples for so many reasons. It keeps the sport aerobic as opposed to anaerobic. I don't have to stand and push a hill, I can lower my gearing and spin up - although it's still not easy - I still have to push this big butt up a hill! Triples save knees making the climb easier on the joints. And I find myself looking for big hills. The Club guys with double avoid them (well the posers do...). If I were 20, very thin and very strong then I would do the double but eventually everyone comes to understand the purpose of a triple.

[Aggie_Ama]

I love my triple! I am already researching my replacement bike and I will not consider anything without a triple. Although I am getting stronger on climbing, I need my granny gear! DH even said the other day he sometimes wishes he had a triple on those steep climbs. ;)

[cindysue]

Hi Amy -

you've been given a lot of good advice why a triple is preferable to many people. So, I'll chime in for some reasons why you might want to go with the compact and what has and hasn't worked for me.

I've had both and I don't see a huge difference with my compact double but I certainly can't carry loaded panniers up the mountain with it, so I'm buying another bike with touring gears for those few and far between loaded tours. I live in Walnut Creek and my current road bike has the FSA SLK Compact Double mentioned above. I debated sticking with a triple or going to a compact when I bought the bike. I decided to go with the compact double because it was a 10 speed (I suppose there are 10 speed triples) and I really wanted the latest technology on my bike since I plan to keep it for a long time. I also bought it with the thought that I would have to get stronger :p .

I really love the bike, but I admit I am slow going up hill. I have to pedal pretty hard to get up some of the steeper hills - but I am also still in pre-season shape right now. I did the Holstein 100 last year with this bike and was able to hump it up the big hill while standing and mashing. On the flip side, there are times when I am spinning on the descent (I have a 50-34 which is not a very high gear). And while I am not a downhill diva so I don't consider this a huge loss, I can always go to a 53-39 if I really want a higher gear.

I guess what I am trying to say is - if you are a strong rider, you might want to consider going to the compact. If you want to scream downhill, you might want to consider a higher large ring (53-39). The compact double might also be a good option if you plan on buying another bike with lower gears (as I am now doing).

lots of good advice from everyone. hope this helps....

[jobob]

Absolutely!! Would you like to also borrow Hell on Wheels?? But of course :D

Gosh, yellow, you need to warn your fine employers that they might have to step up production a bit for that weekend !

but how on earth will I schlep all that chocolate home?

[SadieKate]

but how on earth will I schlep all that chocolate home? I'm trying to figure it out also. The Bike Bus can carry more but it will be exposed to temperature fluctuations. Since yellow apparently does approve of ice being used at all, even to get the precious cargo across the summer desert, I'm not sure what we're going to do.

[jobob]

Three of the strongest riders I know - SadieKate, maillotpois, and Veronica - use triples.

I'm about one-tenth as strong as they are (maybe one-fifth on a good day!) so darn tootin' I have a triple. I also have 46 year old knees which, by and large, have given me very little trouble, and I fully intend to keep it that way. And I hope to still be toodling up Mt. Diablo when I'm 80.

And hopefully sometime between now and then I'll finally make it up freakin' Sierra Road :p

[SadieKate]

I guess what I am trying to say is - if you are a strong rider, you might want to consider going to the compact. If you want to scream downhill, you might want to consider a higher large ring (53-39)

Psst, Cindy!:D MP can kick all of our collective posteriors with her lovely triple. You can get a 53 on the outside and a 30 on the granny with Campy 10 speed. Best of both worlds. Also, even if you only have a 48 or 50 on the outside, you can frequently get a big gear because you run a small cog like an 11T on your cassette. My Kelly has a big gear of 48x11 which is bigger than the 50x13 on the Litespeed. It's the combo of chainrings and cassettes together (as in gear inches and ratios) you have to consider.

[dachshund]

I absolutely appreciate all the good advice here! For my situation, the triple is a resounding winner. I really loved riding the first time around, and I remember being able to see marked improvements within a few months - that's one of the features that's drawing me back. It's an enjoyable fitness program... and I'm so bored with the gym! But my knees just turned 50, so I'd like to be kind to them.

I'm interested in kelownagirl's experience riding again after 20 years, and what it was like to get through the buying experience.

Thanks again.
Amy

[jobob]

I suspect it's just another thing he finds "uncool" :rolleyes: about my riding, similar to the "no carriers" rule (or whatever they're called now), and the "no fenders" rule (which seemed really dumb to me today when it rained for the last hour of our ride and I absolutely soaked from the muddy water rooster tail hitting me from in front and behind...)
Heeheehee, your husband's uncool-itude meter would hit the red zone if he ever rode with me & my husband.

Triple cranks (with "touring" gears, no less), saddlebags, and :eek: fenders.

And we even wear wool jerseys - oh the humanity ! :D

OK, I ditch my wool jerseys when it gets warm

[SadieKate]

You know, I only recall seeing one double crank on the Davis Double Saturday and that was HotRod's bike (he's got Veronica's second favorite ogle-worthy calves). The guy is a machine; most of us are not. I'll stick with my triple.

[kelownagirl]

I'm interested in kelownagirl's experience riding again after 20 years, and what it was like to get through the buying experience.

Thanks again.
Amy

Not much of an educational story on the buying experience there I'm afraid. I had ridden my 8 year old, very heavy, mountain bike a few times last summer and again this spring. (Didn't know the difference between a mountain bike and a road bike until I met DH 2 years ago). When I decided to actually start "training" myself to ride more seriously this spring, I bought the new bike. Woke up one morning, said let's go buy me a bike, went to three different stores, found one at the last store and bought it. Was just hoping to get a used bike that was better quality than my old one (which wouldn't be too hard) :rolleyes: but ended up spending about twice what I had planned (the bike was only 1 year old). I rode it around the parking lot a few times and said, yup it seems good to me :p I really had no clue. I let dh and the store guy make the "mechanical" decisions. I liked that it had disc brakes only because dh was excited about that. I changed the seat to one off another bike I had tried and also bought slicks because I was mostly going to ride on the road. I guess I'm lucky because I really like this bike and it fits me and it goes much faster than my old one and the chain never falls off :rolleyes:

HOWEVER, in the past two months, I have tons of reading about cycling, reading all hubby's Cycling magazines, Team Estrogen archives etc etc and now I'm just beginning to understand a little about what really should go into buying a bike. I am gonna buy me a good road bike sometime in the next year and I'm gonna to know what to look for and do the "mechanical" talking myself next time. :D

[jobob]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think the Milram riders look like they're wearing baby-grows?! (Not sure what you call them in the US?!) Nooo, it's not just you !! :o

I didn't think a team kit could exist that would make Allessandro Petacchi look less than god-like stunning. Wrong...!

We call them "diapers", by the way.

me in this thread:
on topic: 2 (sort of)
off topic: 3

[jobob]

You know, I only recall seeing one double crank on the Davis Double Saturday and that was HotRod's bike (he's got Veronica's second favorite ogle-worthy calves). The guy is a machine; most of us are not. I'll stick with my triple.

Now, was that the guy who rode up behind me while we were on the Davis Double route and called out "Amici Veloci my @ss!" ? Sorry I missed his calves.

I saw a single-speed on the DD, btw. Now that's studly. (And that's precisely what I said when he rode by. :D )

me in this thread:
on topic: 2 (maybe 1.5)
off topic: 4

[jobob]

I'm not sure what we're going to do. I have but three words:

Maximum Baggage Allowance.

Oh heck with it, I've given up keeping track. Sorry for hijacking your thread Amy !

[maillotpois]

Now, was that the guy who rode up behind me while we were on the Davis Double route and called out "Amici Veloci my @ss!" ? Sorry I missed his calves.

I saw a single-speed on the DD, btw. Now that's studly. (And that's precisely what I said when he rode by. :D )

me in this thread:
on topic: 2 (maybe 1.5)
off topic: 4

Did the single speed guy have a very long thin braid down his back?? We rode for a bit with a fixed gear guy w/a long braid. He was hard to ride with because we could so drop him on the downhills/rollers. So we had to leave him. But it was impressive nonetheless.

[jobob]

The singlespeed guy I saw (as he whizzed by me :p ) was riding a Rivendell Quickbeam and he was wearing #22 - that's my 'lucky' number which is why it stuck with me.

Even though I suppose a single speed on the Davis Double is not all that astonishing, relatively speaking. Easy for me to say of course.

Has anyone done the Devil Mountain Double on a singlespeed ? That would be mind-boggling.

[maillotpois]

Wild. Well, my guy was fixed gear, non-Rivendell, so they were different crazy people.

[SadieKate]

Now, was that the guy who rode up behind me while we were on the Davis Double route and called out "Amici Veloci my @ss!" ? Sorry I missed his calves.yep. According to Ed, he towed their gang on a ride from Placerville to Pleasanton. No rotation in the paceline pretty much the entire way.

[aka_kim]

From my vantage point BEHIND jobob, there appeared to be some flirting going on with Mr. Singlespeed #22. I'd swear I heard a girlish giggle. And leebob only a few yards away! :p

[Veronica]

#22 was Eric Norris who posts on the Rivendell Bike List.

V.

[aka_kim]

#22 was Eric Norris who posts on the Rivendell Bike List.

V.The Campy Only guy?!

[SadieKate]

Wow, connect the dots, Kim! This guy? Makes sense. He does live here.

Scroll near the bottom of the page.
http://www.campyonly.com/

The Quickbeam
http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/quickbeam.html

[Veronica]

Yep - him.

[SadieKate]

Wow, now that it really crazy. Norris used the DC as a training ride for the Big Fix Ride.

http://fixhistio.org/

Worthy cause, but fixed gear across the US? The SS idea is weird enough.

[mimitabby]

OK, thanks for this thread you guys. I was just having this argument with hubby the other day. He says "Road bikes don't have triples", rolling his eyes...


KelownaGirl,
lots of roadbikes have triples!! why would your husband say THAT??

So bottom line, all why would anyone want to get a compact double?
are they a lot cheaper? a lot lighter? what is the benefit??

Thanks

[Triskeliongirl]

You asked why would anyone get a compact double? I am not putting down triples by any means, but I have compact doubles on both of my bikes. I switched from triples because they are mechanically simpler, which means they are easier to keep in tune. They are also lighter. In my case I had to switch because I needed a custom crank set to correct a 3 cm leg length discrepancy, and it was easier to build a double than triple to the specs I needed to correct my biomechanical problem. On my go fast bike I paired my 50/34 compact double with a 12/27 casette for a range of ~32-110, and on my touring bike I paired it with a 11/34 casette for a range of ~26-117, which both work well for me.

[kelownagirl]

OK, maybe not so dumb since I am a relative newbie, but can someone explain exactly how the whole number thing works? I think it has something to do with the number of cogs (is that the right word?) on the ring. Not sure how all the various numbers relate though. I have three rings on the front of my bike and 8 or 9 on the back. Do they have different names or are they both chain rings? What is a cassette? I want to go down and count all the thingies on my various rings and find out what I have but I don't know where to start. OK, that was more than one question... :) Thanks a bunch.

Oh, and I am now constantly spouting off the stuff I read here and can actually converse with dh about bikes and sound like I know something. He is also beginning to realize that lots of people have triples, thanks to you girls... TE is awesome...

[jobob]

Sheldon Brown's website ( www.sheldonbrown.com ) has a lot of really good articles and is a really great resource. Here's an article on gears and shifting that might help make some sense of it all. :)

http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html

[cindysue]

You can get a 53 on the outside and a 30 on the granny with Campy 10 speed. Best of both worlds. Also, even if you only have a 48 or 50 on the outside, you can frequently get a big gear because you run a small cog like an 11T on your cassette. My Kelly has a big gear of 48x11 which is bigger than the 50x13 on the Litespeed. It's the combo of chainrings and cassettes together (as in gear inches and ratios) you have to consider.

nice! thanks! Not sure I'm ready to switch to campy, but good to know!