Need advice

[ladypmd03]

Well I had weight loss surgery august (lap-band) So i'm not sure how to prepare myself for longer rides as far as nutrition. I am very resticted as to what I can eat due to stomach size.I can not eat a whole banana etc at one time. I completed the nyc 5 boro bike tour ok. But is was slow paced and 5 rest stops. I would like to ride sunday on a 50 mile ride . But is hilly and i'm not sure how to prepare for this. any advice?
I've lost 80 lbs so far now at 165. But nutrition is a challenge.

[jobob]

A hilly 50 mile can be challenging under the best of circumstances ! Could you go on a shorter ride instead, or would you be able to cut the 50-mile route shorter?

It just seems that you'd be asking a lot of your body if you don't have the nutrition aspects worked out. You would be better off figuring that out on shorter rides. And it will take a bit of time and a bit of experimenting to find out what works for you.

You'll probably need to eat small quantities of food at shortly-spaced intervals. It seems that most people can get by with a snack every 20-30 miles, more or less, but in your case you might need to eat small amounts every 5 or 10 miles.

[Dianyla]

Do you ever eat Gu or similar energy gels? I have relied on these for rides when my stomach was "on strike" and giving me fits. Maybe these would be a viable option for your ride nutrition?

[Nanci]

You should be able to get enough calories with a gel or "real" drink like Endurox (not Gatorade- nothing against it, I drink it all the time, but it is low calorie). (Or, of course, chocolate milk). There are a million gels out there- you should be able to find one you like. They run about 80 calories per packet, and you need about 250-300 calories per hour. Drink water with the gel. I am not sure how electrolyte caps would work for you (they are in geletin capsules) since your stomach probably empties immediately. I know someone I can ask, though. Ok- have sent off the e-mail to "my" expert- we'll see what she says. But if the answer is no, you need an entire stomach to break down the gel caps, you could still eat eGel instead, which has a much larger dose of electrolytes than other gels.

Nanci

[tulip]

A 50-mile ride is serious business. Are you riding regularly 20-40 miles at a time? By regularly, I'm talking several times a week, or more often for shorter rides of 10-20 miles.

You don't mention how long ago your surgery was. If you are still in recovery mode, then I would say that 50 miles is alot to handle.

Frequent, shorter rides are necessary to build up to a 50-miler.

Here's my story. You can see how it compares to your situation, and maybe it will help you make the right decision. I, too, am planning to ride a 50-mile ride on Sunday. It wll be my first in a very long time. However, I commute to work 4 times per week, 28 miles round trip (that's two 14-mile rides per day), and I've been doing that consistently since January (850 miles since January). And still, I'm a bit nervous about making it 50 miles.

This is what I will do, nutrition-wise. Eat some pasta and a salad for dinner this evening. Before my ride, I'll have coffee, cereal with milk, and a banana. During my ride, I'll likely eat two Luna bars, but maybe only one. After my ride, I'll eat an apple, and I'll likely be very hungry for the rest of the day. I'm thinking pizza and beer for dinner tomorrow night (my neighbor owes me a pizza anyways)!

Hydration is also very important, not just during your ride, but all the time.

You can certainly ride 50 miles, but from what little I know about you so far, I'd say that perhaps not yet (but then there are lots of details missing!).

Take care of yourself for the long haul.
tulip

[Dogmama]

I really think you need to check with your doctor.

[KnottedYet]

I second the "check with the doc" bit. Tell them what you've learned here, and ask what they recommend. They know exactly what they did and what they expect and when.

I've seen more than my share of hypoglycemic disasters, and that's what I'm thinking about right now. There are other issues, too. Your doc is really your best reference at this point. Print up this thread and take it in to the doc and get his/her take on it.

[Popoki_Nui]

*snip They run about 80 calories per packet, and you need about 250-300 calories per hour. *snip*

Whaaa? 250-300 calories per hour? Does this apply to everyone? My calorie counter shows I burn ~1100 calories per hour. Is 250-300 enough to keep me energized throughout a ride??

Thanks,
Sherry.

[kelownagirl]

Whaaa? 250-300 calories per hour? Does this apply to everyone? My calorie counter shows I burn ~1100 calories per hour. Is 250-300 enough to keep me energized throughout a ride??

Thanks,
Sherry.

And I was wondering if I am trying to lose weight, is it ok to forgo some of those calories and just drink water and/or the odd sports drink? I'm not riding really far, but do about 40-50k rides on the weekend. I am doing it not only for fun and fitness, but also to burn calories. I don't really want to eat anything when I'm riding - just have a reasonable meal in the morning before I go and a snack or lunch when I get back. I carry a granola bar (because it has less calories than a power bar) in case I do get hungry. I'm afraid that consuming 250-300 calories per hour when I'm riding would defeat the purpose for me.

barb

[Grog]

Whaaa? 250-300 calories per hour? Does this apply to everyone? My calorie counter shows I burn ~1100 calories per hour. Is 250-300 enough to keep me energized throughout a ride??


Wow, that's a LOT. Even if I ride really hard for an hour (and my heart beats pretty fast) I don't burn much more than 600 calories/hour (according to my Polar watch, based on my weight and heart rate).

[SadieKate]

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=6445&highlight=polar+calories

And, don't forget the inaccuracies of Polar not to mention that the absorption rate of your stomach is slower than than your burning of calories. I'm sure someone has posted on this site the calories per hour your stomach can absorb. Anyone have that at their finger tips?

[Popoki_Nui]

Hmmm...I use the calorie counter built into my bike computer. I doubt it's very accurate, but it does match what I get from this site:
http://www.primusweb.com/cgi-bin/fpc/actcalc.pl I use this category:
"Bicycling: 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort"
It shows that for my weight and speed/effort, I will burn ~1080 calories in one hour. My bike computer shows ~1095. I know these values are approximate and don't take into account hills, headwinds, gearing, and so on, so I guess my question is: are they worth anything and/or how should I calculate my real calorie burn per hour?
Thx,
S.

[Nanci]

From Ten Mistakes Endurance Athletes Make, Steve Born, Hammer Nutrition

Improper Amounts of Calories

Too many endurance athletes fuel their bodies under the premise, "If I burn 500-800 calories an hour, I must consume that much or I'll bonk." However, as Dr. Bill Misner says, "To suggest that fluids, sodium, and fuels-induced glycogen replenishment can happen at the same rate as it is spent during exercise is simply not true. Endurance exercise beyond 1-2 hours is a deficit spending entity, with proportionate return or replenishment always in arrears. The endurance exercise outcome is to postpone fatigue, not to replace all the fuel, fluids, and electrolytes lost during the event. It can't be done, though many of us have tried." In other words, your body can't replenish calories as fast at it expends them (ditto for fluids and electrolytes). Athletes who try to replace "calories out" with an equal amount of "calories in" usually suffer digestive maladies, with the inevitable poorer-than-expected outcome, and possibly the dreaded DNF ("Did Not Finish"). Body fat and glycogen stores easily fill the gap between energy output and fuel intake, so it's detrimental overkill to attempt calorie-for-calorie replacement.

Keep this in mind if you're doing ultra-endurance events, especially if you've had to "alter the game plan" and are unable to stick to your planned hourly calorie intake. For example, let's say you've been consuming an average of 280 calories an hour but the heat or other circumstances (such as climbing a very long hill) prevents you from maintaining that desired hourly average. DO NOT try to "make up lost ground" by consuming additional calories; it's not only unnecessary, it may very well cause a lot of stomach distress, which will hurt your performance. Remember, during periods where fuel consumption may be less than your original hourly plan, body fat stores will effectively fill in the gap, thus eliminating the need to overcompensate with calories.

Recommendation: Intake of 240-280 calories per hour, on average, is sufficient for most endurance athletes. Lighter weight athletes (<120-125 pounds) may need less, while heavier athletes (> 185-190 pounds) may need slightly more. Experiment in training to determine your specific requirements, using 240-280 calories/hour as a base to work from. If you fall behind on your average calorie intake, do not consume excess calories to bring your average back up.

[SadieKate]

Good article. Thanks, Nanci.

[Nanci]

My calorie counting software credits me with 720 calories/hour for cycling at 14-16mph. So even if you eat 200/hour, you're still losing, as long as you don't make them up during dinner later.

I know exactly how you feel- you're cycling to lose weight, so you don't want to take in anything- but, it's HORRIBLE to bonk and feel like you can't even complete the ride, so you have to take in _something,_ especially in rides longer than an hour or two.

I do 100 cal/hour on 1-2 hour rides, in the form of Jelly Belly Sport Beans that I munch in a constant stream during the ride.

If I ride longer- 3-8 hours or more, then I do the 250/cal/hour with Gatorade, Sports Beans, choc milk, whatever. I jsut have to, to have the energy.

I think, or I should say what worked for me, is that you'll lose weight if you ride 5 days a week. If you ride one 100, 200, 375 mile ride per week, no matter what you eat, you won't lose weight.

Nanci

[SadieKate]

Anyone else test out the calculations in the link I supplied in this thread?

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=5994&highlight=calories+hour

[Nanci]

I remember when you posted that- I think I read up till step four, and then thought, too many steps, forget it!! Ok, so I did it now, and it says I should replace 151-252 cal/hour at 15 mph pace. That's about what I do!

Nanci

[mimitabby]

Whaaa? 250-300 calories per hour? Does this apply to everyone? My calorie counter shows I burn ~1100 calories per hour. Is 250-300 enough to keep me energized throughout a ride??

Thanks,
Sherry.

wow, 1100 sounds a bit high. I'd heard 250-300 before.

[kelownagirl]

I use the calorie counter on Sparkpeople.com (a great diet/fitness site, btw) and it calculates my calories burned at 14-16 mph at 600 per hour. I'm pretty sure it's based on my age (46) and weight (134). Not terribly off the mark from your software (720?). The link Popoki-nui have shows it as 800 calories burned in one hour. My polar-type watch says something entirely different again. In fact, every website I visit has a different number of calories burned for similar cycling. I guess there really is no good way to calculate caloric burn.

On a related note, I was out riding for 3 hours today. Did mostly hills, some road, some off-road. All very challenging for me, heart rate up around 170 going up most hills, and stayed in range of 135-150 most of the time. I *KNOW* I burned a ton of calories today but I only averaged 14 kmh so the most of the charts will only show I burned about 600 calories over the 3 hours. Bull. I figure I burned at least 1200-1500 today. (Didn't eat anything along the way though ;)

Barb

[Popoki_Nui]

I give up....every resource says something different. I double checked my bike computer: 2.5 hour ride at avg speed 23km/h (14mph) burned 2710 calories for my input weight = 1084 cal/hr. That matches the chart at:
http://www.primusweb.com/cgi-bin/fpc/actcalc.pl
Right or wrong? Who knows.....

PS- I used the formula SadieKatie at the link above, and got a total of 757calories burned. Another site http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.html
said 816 cal/hour.
I assume there are several different calculations or formulae used?

[bcipam]

It's my understanding that people who had the weight loss surgery are suppose to limit their intake of carbs and take in more protein. I'm assuming this is something you have (or should) discussed with your doctor and weight loss counselor. Not certain if someone whose had the surgery would do well with something like GU since the body can't absord the sugar naturally.

What would work better maybe something like beef jerky (for protein and salt) or peanut butter (for protein and fats). Your situation is very unique to you cause you have to know what foods your body can and cannot tolerate. Plus I know of a woman who had the surgery and has been hospitalized several times during and after rides because she 1) did not eat properly and 2) did not hydrate properly on rides. Again she wasn't taking in enough proteins and liquids to sustain her riding. She has since modified her diet and is doing better.

Please check with your doctor!

[Nanci]

You know on your rides when you have a slow mph because of severe hills or horrible wind? I go by how the software describes the riding- leisurely, light effort (never use those two) moderate effort, vigorous effort, or very fast.

Some days, (this is bad) when I am getting close to the limit of calories and still need to eat dinner- I look up what it says for yard work or house work, and do some!!

[kelownagirl]

Yeah, that's more or less what I do. My program doesn't give options as to intensity so if I've been working really hard doing hills, then I input the avg mph higher than it actually was.


Btw, your "avatar" (that's the little pic by your name right?) reminds me so much of a picture of me right after riding up my first "hill" in March 2005. (It was hardly a hill in fact, but I was so out of shape and still yet undiagnosed EI asthma so I thought I was gonna die. ) Anyway, it was a similar shot of me, except I have one finger extended at dh who was taking the picture against my will.. :rolleyes: