Thin=Unhealthy?

[Kathi]

I'm not trying to start a war here but when I read posts from women complaining about their weight someone comes up with the comment "I'd rather be my weight than some unhealthy, thin person". The assumption being that thin is unhealthy.

Yes, some do smoke, have eating disorders or have some other illnesses that contribute to their thinness but one source I read says that 70% of thin people are naturally thin. If this is the case, I wonder why thin is considered unhealthy?

Doesn't lifestyle and genes contribute to good health as much as body size?

[Tater]

I have been thin all my life. My mother thought I was going to be in size 6X forever! In fact, my family took to calling me 'Skinny Jenny' and still does every so often. I was blessed in that my mother cooked healthy meals and passed those skills on to me. I certainly do think lifestyle has a lot to do with good health. I have always been active from participating in high school sports, to scuba diving, being in the military, running and cycling. I don't like to sit still.

I have found, however, that my thin-ness bothers some people. 'You need to eat more', they say, or 'Why do you bike (or run) so much, you don't need to exercise, you're so thin already.' :rolleyes:

[RoadRaven]

Hey there Kathi

I don't think those comments are aimed at healthy thin, or not-overweight people.

My perception is that a comment such as

"I'd rather be my weight than some unhealthy, thin person"

is a rebellion and a defiance of the social value that manufacturers and advertisers try to sell women that if they can just get thin everything will be ok.

I know I am a consistent advocate on this board for women not to get obsessed with losing weight, because weight loss and being thin doesn't always equate to being healthy.

However, healthy, steady sensible weight loss does equate to increased healthiness.

There are also people who's metabolism is just quicker, and burns fuel so quick it never gets a chance to be stored. My closest friend was like that. Three of my hand spans could fit around her waist. When we ate she would eat three burgers to my one... she was always hungry and always skinny - but very healthhy - and always getting hassled cause people thought she was dieting or vomiting...

The thinness=healthy story is one sold to women who are not size 8-10, and completely overlooks the fact that healthy comes in all shapes and sizes. The trick is finding the right state of healthy-ness without deciding that you need to look like a Parisian cat walk model to be haelthy/fit...

[SadieKate]

I know thin women who think they are healthy because they hit the right BMI numbers. If you're thin and have no muscle tone or cardio fitness, you ain't healthy. There are lots of thin people with sky high cholesterol. In my mind, thin doesn't make you healthy. It is simply a matter of genetics or eating habits and really doesn't have much to do with health.

[Grog]

As a rule of thumb, I say it's better to be big and active than thin and sedentary.

Most thin women that can be seen in the media are dangerously thin, for both physical and psychological reasons.

Still, it makes sense to be preoccupied with your weight if you are way above (or below) your BMI. But it's not weight in itself that matters. Weight is a poor and limiting indicator of health...

[caligurl]

i think i'm the only person who GAINED weight (not just on the scale.. but my clothes too) after i took up cycling...

and no... it's not all muscle.. it's what i put into my mouth since i think i "can" since i ride... well.. WRONGO!!!!!!!!!! lol!

i do know at one point i was too thin... WAY too hard to maintain... NO cheating.. AT ALL... counting every little morsel... not matter how few the calories.... i gained a few pounds... ok... no problem.... i was still thin for me....

then i started cheating just about every weekend... UGH! now.. i'm MY opinion... i'm a cow.... cuz i have that extra 4-5 pounds over what i've decided my "ideal" is.... and a lot of my clothes are too tight! (and yes... 4-5 pounds on someone who is 5'3" is a LOT! and granted... a lot of them were bought when i was on my severe eating regime!)

[Dianyla]

i think i'm the only person who GAINED weight (not just on the scale.. but my clothes too) after i took up cycling...
Oh, no you're not! :p

Last year training for the STP I gained about 7 lbs of muscle and another 7 lbs of fat. Training = pigout time.

[caligurl]

ok.... i actually feel better now, then! :p (misery loves company!)

[mtkitchn]

You two aren't alone! I've been eating like a horse ever since I started cycling, and although I work out 8 hr/wk more than I used to, I've gained five pounds of flab around my belly and can't fit into my clothes any more. And I'm 5'2" caligurl, so I know how you feel!
I'm also someone who hates the mall, so I don't want to have to go buy new bigger clothes....
I'd actually rather be a healthy person who likes my body. I've never been one to make any comments about unhealthy thin people. I wish everyone would get on the healthy bandwagon (health insurance costs would probably go down)! :D But I'm preaching to the choir here!

[bikerchick68]

hmmm... now see I read that comment to mean:

I'd rather be my weight than some thin, UNHEALTHY person...

and I agree with that statement assuming the person is naturally thin and unhealthy... I have friends who are naturally thin, and very unhealthy. Horrible eating habits etc... so yeah, I'd rather be my weight and very athletic than be them, who are uncomfortable even doing 3 mile walks but wear size 6 jeans.

All that being said, I'd rather be THIN AND HEALTHY... but alas, THAT is not the case... LOL:D I don't think I could squeeze even my left leg into a size 6 jean...

Cali- ugh! me too... my quads are bigger, mostly from the bike... but the rest of me is bigger, mostly from the fig newtons :rolleyes:

[betagirl]

I'm thin, always have been, but too can gain weight when it's cycling season. Most of it is muscle, but yeah I've been known to take in way more calories than I burned on a ride :D This season I'm trying to be better about it, but we'll see.

Anyway, I'm 5'10 and a size 6 or 8 depending on where I'm at on the weight spectrum that I seem to go up and down. When you're this tall, it's easy to look that lanky thin that can be scary. I get downright boney sometimes, but I've never been "under weight" according to BMI standards, etc. And because I have crohn's I'm always keeping an eye on my weight which can slide off like crazy if I have a bad month or 2. You should hear some of the comments I've gotten, especially before I was more open about my illness. Now people know or I tell them why I've lost weight. But a lot of people assume you have some sort of eating disorder or the like. I agree that at the heart of the "you need to lose weight" or "you're too skinny" comments is this insecurity many people have about what's the ideal. But the definition of the ideal doesn't take into account other healthy habits like eating right and exercising. It's all about appearances.

[Duck on Wheels]

... And because I have crohn's I'm always keeping an eye on my weight which can slide off like crazy if I have a bad month or 2...

Yep. That thing. In my worst Crohn's period (so far) I weighed 50kg (110 pounds). At 5'9" I was way too skinny! I had pretty much no muscles left, looked like a Holocaust survivor. And boy did it bug me to see diet diet diet in every goldarned newspaper and magazine! Nowhere did I see articles on how to *gain* weight! So now I am more at ease being a dozen kilos overweight than being right on the razor edge of my "ideal" weight. I'd be too scared of how I'd manage the next flareup. But I'm also cautious about assuming what either thin or round means in terms of other peoples' health. If you're active, feel good, and feel good about your body, then you're probably doing ok weightwise. At least, that's what I try to remind myself if I catch myself being judgemental.

[betagirl]

In my worst Crohn's period (so far) I weighed 50kg (110 pounds). At 5'9" I was way too skinny! I had pretty much no muscles left, looked like a Holocaust survivor.

Dang, 110 at 5'9? The lowest I got was 130. I weighed 165 when I got sick, so to lose 35lbs in about 2 months scared the crap out of a lot of people I know :)
My favorite comment when I was losing was from a co-worker "wow what diet are YOU on? You look great!" I wanted to say so badly "the 25 trips to the can a day diet. Go eat an entire container of prunes and experience the joy." But she didn't know and I was just bitter.

Good to see you're doing well.

[hirakukibou]

I've actually been on both ends of the spectrum. I am 5' 2" and have weighed way too much at 220 lbs and now on the thin side at 115 lbs. I gained weight from a medication I was taking and then lost weight on another medication -- both for depression. I do know the pressure to be thin in this culture is crippling for many women. I get angry at the thin message which is touted rather than the be healthy message. My daughter is eleven and active and talking about being too fat. It's sad to me. I think the antidote is to be active at whatever weight. And cycling has been great for me. I have never been an athlete before prefering to stretch my intellect before challenging my body. So this is new for me and a good challenge.

[allabouteva]

Mmmm, I'm like many of you.. my weight fluctuates. I've learned that exercise really makes a difference to my metabolism. I'm now about 125lb and about 5'3", but have been up to 165+lb. I like who I am and I'm learning to like my body.

I've been all the possible combos:

Thin and unhealthy
Thin and healthy
Fat and unhealthy
Fat and healthy

I think we take too much stock on appearances. But I'm guilty of this too. So I can't preach.:o

[Geonz]

saying you don't want to be a thin, unhealthy person does not assume that thin = unhealthy. What it does is call into *question* the assumption that thin means healthy. If I said I'd rather be short and happy than tall and unhappy, I wouldn't be assuming tall meant unhappy.

On the other hand, the "you're so lucky to be thin" and that whole line of commentary has to get old!

[Crankin]

Thank you all for saying this. I have been thin and unhealthy and overweight and unhealthy (though not for a long time). I am short. Even two extra pounds makes my clothes not fit. I work hard to stay fit (and not overweight) and I resent it when people tell me that I am crazy to exercise too much. With all of the lifestyle related disease around, I don't think that anyone should question my exercise habits or my weight! Many years ago, when I first started exercising I did lose a lot of weight, but it was a product of exercising, not starving myself. I was too skinny, but I was healthy. People constantly asked my friends if I was anorexic. If anyone knew me, they would laugh, because most of the time I'm not exercising, I'm cooking or eating out! But, I eat healthy and I get sick of my co-workers saying stuff when I don't eat the french fries and other junk served at school. I commend all of the people who are trying to lose weight through cycling and not by starving themselves.

[snapdragen]

I used to be skinny, not thin, skinny, 5ft 6inches and 100 pounds. And very unhealthy. Smoked 2+ packs a day, ate garbage. When I hit 35 my weight started to change, and I quit smoking. I don't blame that for my weight gain, I blame my eating habits. I never had to pay attention to what I ate before!

Now I try to eat healthy, I'm on Weight Watchers which is great, I'm learning everyday. I don't always succeed, but I keep on trying. I had a friend who always made fun of me trying to maintain healthy eating habits. She'd brag about eating 16 oz steaks, and frying everything in butter, like it was something to be proud of. Then she got diagnosed as type 2 diabetic. She's singing a different song these days....;)

snap "pudgy but healthier than I was" dragen

[Brina]

I keep thinking about this post, and i gotta tell ya, the original comment sounds like a bunch of sour grapes. Or somebody trying to rationalize not eating well and not exercising.

yes, our media over-emphasises thinness, and yes, some people over-internalize that obsession, yet on the whole our country is fat and getting fatter. In societies where food is scarce fatness is prized - t becomes a sign of wealth and status. This is true in parts of Africa - I remember seeing a special on Discovery Channel about a tribe that has an annual contest among the men to see who can gain the most weight the fastest. The guys entered literally do nothing except sit around and eat. Winning brings prestige to their family. This was true in western society for a long time - when ruebens painted his "chunky" nudes he was not painting the average woman, he was painting an "ideal". His paintings were the equivilant of a Vogue cover.

In todays time of abundance it is hard to be thin for many people. Food is everywhere and it is cheap. In addition, most people to not do physical work. Lots of food and no strong motivation to burn calories (by strong I mean work hard at physical labor or starve to death) and we have more fat people and suddenly, thinness is the ideal we strive for. Thinness is what we idealize and strive for. Or at least we say that we strive for it. A relatively small number of people really put in the work neccessary to be thin and healthy. (I put myself into this category- I have only recently begun to work out after being fat and lazy for far too long) Another relatively small number take reaching the ideal too seriously and begin to endanger their health.

[salsabike]

Oh, no you're not! :p

Last year training for the STP I gained about 7 lbs of muscle and another 7 lbs of fat. Training = pigout time.

Someone from Cascade Bicycle Club, one of the STP (Seattle to Portland) sponsors, said last year that STP is known as the only 206-mile ride where people actually GAIN weight, because there's so much food at the stops and people are eating as much as they can to make sure they don't bonk. And I gained several pounds during last year's STP! Who would have thought?

Re the weight thing: most people are doing the best they can with what they've got. That I truly believe.

[crazybikinchic]

there is a difference between someone who is thin and works out verses someone who is thin and sedintary. In my moto, I state that i would rather be fat and fit than thin and not (fit). I don't equate thin with unhealthy. Many people are thin and fit, but there are those who are not. Most people equate fat with unhealthy, but there are some out there that are fit, though they have extra pounds.
I have to say, I obviously am not a thin person, but when I went to the doctor yesterday and the lady wieghed me and questioned the validity of what she saw, It made me feel pretty good.

[Lenusik]

Ladies, why can't you admit that everybody wants to looks good? Thinner women (I don't mean skeletons) do look better. And I agree that not all of them are healthy. But I know quite a few. I am 5'6, 114 pounds, wear size 0-2. I ride my bike fast, play tennis (hard) 2-3 times a week, eat healthy and I am very strong. Still I want to look better and I will strive for it. Genetics are only a small portion of your development. You physical and mind efforts make you a better athlete and a healthier person. No, it is not better to be fat and healthy - there is no such thing as fat and healthy. VERY thin is not healthy eaither. But being normally thin and healthy is in anybody's power. Just put some effort in it.

[Brandi]

Interesting subject! My mom is 5'8 and when I was 13 years old at 114 5'3 my mom weighed 103 pounds. And then got a breast job. She went from my size breast to a larger size. My Dad used to call me lard butt and they really regulated what I ate.
So I was always hungry and thought I was fat! So when I was 14 I started taking diet pills. I never slept (the caffein was high in those pills) and then started having siezures. I stopped taking the pills after going through a lot of test ten admitted I was taking those pills. The Dr turned to my parents and told them to lay off me!
I have some scaring mentally from growing up with such a thin mom. But I realize now that I am older she was struggling too. Don't get me wrong I had a terrible up bringing! But I am a bit more comfortable in my own skin (even as it ages). I now weigh about 140 but I am athletic. When i tell people how much I weigh they don't believe it. My mom now wieghs 135 but when Itell her how much I weigh she always goes " oh Brandi that is not good". I then say " Oh mom 2 packs of cigg's a day ids going to kill you". We don't get along to great.
Besides my usband says i look better without clothes on! He he:o

[Lenusik]

The same thing with my mom. She smoked all her life, never excersied and ate fried stuff all the time. But the only good thing that she did for me is made me play sports. I always ate well and healthy because I grew up in Eastern Europe where fruit and vegetable is natural without any chemicals. But my mom ended up with cancer, fat and unhealthy. As I said earlier, just do what's right for you and put an effort into yourself. When you love yourself and treat you right, then others will love you too.

[lnewv5]

Ladies, why can't you admit that everybody wants to looks good? Thinner women (I don't mean skeletons) do look better. And I agree that not all of them are healthy. But I know quite a few. I am 5'6, 114 pounds, wear size 0-2. I ride my bike fast, play tennis (hard) 2-3 times a week, eat healthy and I am very strong. Still I want to look better and I will strive for it. Genetics are only a small portion of your development. You physical and mind efforts make you a better athlete and a healthier person. No, it is not better to be fat and healthy - there is no such thing as fat and healthy. VERY thin is not healthy eaither. But being normally thin and healthy is in anybody's power. Just put some effort in it.

I might have to disagree with a few of these points. First of all, genetics do play a part. If you were to take a group of women who had the exact same fitness schedule, same lifestyle, and same eating habits, I promise you that they all wouldn't have the same body type. Everyone has a different metabolism and a different makeup. I understand your point that there is no such thing as fat and healthy, but you have to consider an overweight person who is exercising 5 days a week versus a 100 pound woman who is inactive, and eats horribly. I consider the overweight person to be healthier than the skinny person.

Personally, I commend you for your great body stats and exercise regime because you obviously work very hard to stay in shape and look good. But to tell everyone else that they too can have the same weight if they just work a little harder is just foolish. People can only do the best they can, and they shouldn't have to be a size 2 to feel good about themselves.

The most important thing ladies is how you feel. I'm 5'7 and about 130. There have been points in my life where I weighed a lot less, but I was not active. I'm in better shape than I've ever been in my entire life. I don't associate that with a number on a scale, rather my energy, endurance, and muscle tone.

[mtkitchn]

Ladies, why can't you admit that everybody wants to looks good? Thinner women (I don't mean skeletons) do look better. And I agree that not all of them are healthy. But I know quite a few. I am 5'6, 114 pounds, wear size 0-2. I ride my bike fast, play tennis (hard) 2-3 times a week, eat healthy and I am very strong. Still I want to look better and I will strive for it. Genetics are only a small portion of your development. You physical and mind efforts make you a better athlete and a healthier person. No, it is not better to be fat and healthy - there is no such thing as fat and healthy. VERY thin is not healthy eaither. But being normally thin and healthy is in anybody's power. Just put some effort in it.

I've seen voluptuous (sp?) women who look AWESOME. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and thin is not better looking to everyone. Obese and healthy may not be possible, but I think there is a wide margin between thin healthy and voluptuous healthy and it's all good.
I think as long as you are pretty happy with yourself and you exercise and eat right, you're okay. The stress of worrying about how people perceive your body probably does more harm to your health than ten extra pounds.

[Lenusik]

I've seen voluptuous (sp?) women who look AWESOME. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and thin is not better looking to everyone. Obese and healthy may not be possible, but I think there is a wide margin between thin healthy and voluptuous healthy and it's all good.
I think as long as you are pretty happy with yourself and you exercise and eat right, you're okay. The stress of worrying about how people perceive your body probably does more harm to your health than ten extra pounds.

I guess, you are not exactly getting my point. As I said, everybody wants to look better and feel better. Certainly, it is true that only you can define what's better. Therefore, everybody is entitled to an opinion. It does not matter whether an overweight or a thin person eats unhealthy, it is still unhealthy. Genes do play role in how tall or short you are or the color of your skin and hair. Certainly not everybody would have the same shape. But those who are active and eat right, and put effort into taking care fo themselves will always look better and feel better. Effort! That's all it takes. I am not afraid of gaining more weight because I know that I have ability to lose it. And I really do not do this because I am concerned of what other people think. I do this only for myself and my family. As I said before, only if you love yourself others will love you too. And that does not apply to a thin or an overweight person. This is a universal statement.

[mtkitchn]

I guess, you are not exactly getting my point. As I said, everybody wants to look better and feel better....Ladies, why can't you admit that everybody wants to looks good? Thinner women (I don't mean skeletons) do look better

Perhaps I'm not getting your point. Personally, I don't work out because I want to look thinner, but because I want to be healthy. Your post sounded to me at first read like a blanket statement that thin women look better and all women want to be thinner, so I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I think all women who are making an effort to be healthy are beautiful. As you said, we all have our own opinions, and that's what makes the world go 'round!:D
Peace out.

[fixedgeargirl]

But being normally thin and healthy is in anybody's power. Just put some effort in it.

What about women with PCOS, or other endocrine or thyroid disorders?

There are several women on this board who could ride circles around my size 2 butt all day (and night!), yet weigh half again my body weight and have spoken openly on this board about struggling with weight and body image . There are other mitigating factors in many, many people's lives that stymie their best efforts to be "thin" or "healthy". Some of them are medical, some are genetic, some are unfortunate circumstances imposed on women by other people. As a stranger, and sometimes even as a friend, you just don't know the whole story.

[Crankin]

I readily admit that I exercise to look good, but of course also to be healthy! I started exercising to look good (i.e lose weight) I gained when I graduated college and got my first teaching job. It worked, but the "endorphin" effect kicked in and 30 years later I am still exercising. It's a lifestyle that you have to make a commitment to. So many people are not willing to make that commitment. I don't think it's vain to want to look good. This is for ME, not anyone else. I've never done well doing things because others expected them and exercising is not one. I understand the terrible messages that young girls and women get regarding weight and body image. I'm a middle school teacher and I see the results daily. Maybe if we switched the message a little and emphasized exercsing instead of focusing on eating, it would work better for everyone.

[Lenusik]

It's a lifestyle that you have to make a commitment to. So many people are not willing to make that commitment. I don't think it's vain to want to look good. This is for ME, not anyone else. I've never done well doing things because others expected them and exercising is not one.

This is exactly the point. Of course there are cercumstances and medical conditions. And it would be fulish to generalize. But I still believe that our mindset and effort are stronger that genes. I could be politically correct if needed, but why. Adopting exercise and healthy habits for a lifestyle has not killed anybody yet. Eating a lot of bad food and no exercise have.

[Brina]

What about women with PCOS, or other endocrine or thyroid disorders?

Sorry, but PCOS is an excuse. I have it - have had it for years. I could use it as an excuse - in fact I have used it as an excuse in the past - and sit around wearing a size 20, or even bigger. Instead, last year i decided that this was within my control. I started working out. I stopped eating so much junk food and starting eating a diet of mainly protein, vegtables and fruit and whole grains. I still allow myself treats, but I limit them. In that time, I am down 20 lbs, improved my body fat ratio and gotten much stronger and fitter. I look better and I feel better. I am still not skinny - I will probably never be skinny - but I am no longer considered obese.

[CR400]

Thin doesn't equal unhealthy unless the person lives an unhealthy lifestyle, like smoking, drugs, eating disorders, lack of meaningful exercise, or a number of other things we might think of. Also I have to keep reminding myself that going to extremes to get thin could make me unhealthy even if I do weigh what the tables say I should.

Right now I am back up to a weight that for my height 5'5 says I'm obese 182lbs. Yes I am still fat with room to improve but I can do something at this weight that I couldn't do at the 173 I was at. I was angery that I had gained almost 10lbs back over the past two months, it was really depressing. Until I went to the gym a few nights ago and easily put up 410lbs on the leg press and could have done more. Apparently that 7lbs of other based on body fat was muscle. I had stopped lifting in February and could only do 290. So on some occasions heavier can mean healthier. Oh I never thought I'd say it but after all that I may actually love hills. Until I run into that 105lbs person. I think to make races even we all should trap on those weighted vests and try to climb with the weight of the biggest person in the race. Watch tiny not even be able to turn the cranks over. Amazing how hard it is to produce 400+ watts to climb a hill.

On a side note I don't think I ever want to be that thin it is unsafe. For the most part even psycho men won't mess with a woman who looks big enough to put up a fight. However even women will take on the real little ones. Why, for the average woman greater weight means greater strength. Even in the world of power lifting the heavy weight women way out lift the feather weights.

[roughingit]

I'm not sure why I keep reading this thread...I've always been within the range of average and y'all are making me feel fat. Okay, so at 5'5" and 150 I certainly would like to lose some weight...like 20 pounds of it, although my SO says I look just fine.

In American culture, thin is better. I'm pretty sure if you took a random poll of high schoolers for example, and gave them the choice of being a not healthy size 2 or being a healthy size 14, almost all of them would take the two.

Personally, I think anyone that wears a size under 6 is actually delusional about their size and really still in the children'd department. I'm sick of having to find my size 10-12's in the large section! I'm a medium dangnabit! Size 6 is small. No wonder women are made to feel like cows, they can't decide on what size is what, why can we just buy by the inches like guys?!

[caligurl]

Personally, I think anyone that wears a size under 6 is actually delusional about their size and really still in the children'd department. I'm sick of having to find my size 10-12's in the large section! I'm a medium dangnabit! Size 6 is small. No wonder women are made to feel like cows, they can't decide on what size is what, why can we just buy by the inches like guys?!

you can't make a blanket statement like that.... cuz there are a LOT of other factors.... i do wear under a size 6.... and i'm still carrying a few extra pounds for me... i'm not fat... but i do need to clean up the eating and get rid of the excess baggage.... but i'm small all over.... so ya... i wear size small jerseys (usually... sometimes i have to get a medium cuz i have broad shoulders.. partly from working out).... and it's actually quite irritating to me when i do have to practically shop the children's/teens department to get clothes that fit! even with my excess baggage... i still can wear a size 0 in several brands of jeans.... at the most a 2 :rolleyes: and when that excess baggage is gone.. those same 0's hang on me... but that's all thanx to vanity sizing.... i should really be wearing.... probably a 4... if you check sizing from the "olden" days..... if the stupid manufacturers didn't keep making smaller sizes bigger to appease the majority of the lazy public.. that love to sit around on the couch and eat fast food all week! but still want to go to the store and buy they same size clothes they used to... well guess what! they aren't... cuz the manufacturers are just making them bigger... still calling them the same size.. but making them bigger! and as for shopping in the ladies (not teens) department at mervyns or kohl's.. forget it.. they only go down to a 4.. and even in my "fat phase") they hang on me... there's just something WRONG with that! so not only does tv... and movies... and magazines add to the "thin is in"... but so do the clothing manufacturers.... vanity sizing SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but anyways.. to tell me i'm dellusional about my size cuz i wear a 0 or 2 is just as bad as all the other blanket statements.... i'm NOT dellusional... i DO have excess weight... and i eat... sure i eat healthy all week... but on weekends i totally blow it... and i blow up! :eek:

there are WAY too many considerations to make blanket statements!

[maillotpois]

What about women with PCOS, or other endocrine or thyroid disorders?

There are several women on this board who could ride circles around my size 2 butt all day (and night!), yet weigh half again my body weight and have spoken openly on this board about struggling with weight and body image . There are other mitigating factors in many, many people's lives that stymie their best efforts to be "thin" or "healthy". Some of them are medical, some are genetic, some are unfortunate circumstances imposed on women by other people. As a stranger, and sometimes even as a friend, you just don't know the whole story.


Wow - great post FGG!

[Lenusik]

although my SO says I look just fine. It is not for anyone to say how you look. it is your decision.
I'm pretty sure if you took a random poll of high schoolers for example, and gave them the choice of being a not healthy size 2 or being a healthy size 14, almost all of them would take the two. - What kind of choice is that. May I suggest that thin and healthy is better.

Personally, I think anyone that wears a size under 6 is actually delusional about their size and really still in the children'd department. - Actually, I wear size 2 and pretty sure that this is my size. I do not shop in children's department - I am 31 and have curves to my body. It does not mean that women who wear size 6-8 are not attractive or unhealthy. it all depends on how you feel about it. But if a person is much heavier than a normal weight, no matter how good this person feels about herself, it is not healthy, especially in the long run. I've learned it looking at my mother and a few other women.
Why looking for excuses.

[Eden]

Personally, I think anyone that wears a size under 6 is actually delusional about their size and really still in the children'd department. I'm sick of having to find my size 10-12's in the large section! I'm a medium dangnabit! Size 6 is small. No wonder women are made to feel like cows, they can't decide on what size is what, why can we just buy by the inches like guys?!

Yeah whoa - Do you think it is easy being this small????? I am 5 feet tall and I currently wear a size 0 - everything is too big on me, but a child I am not. Do I get treated like a child sometimes and does it piss me off. Sure does. Can I buy kids clothes - no siree. I am small, but I am still shaped like a woman. I am not delusional, I'm just small and fit and to tell you the truth I don't really care if you don't like being a large cause at least they make stuff in your size.

and also I totally agree with Caligurl - sizing has changed. At my same weight now I need to buy a 0 and sometimes can fit a 2, but I used to wear a 5 at one time. Every year sizes keep getting bigger and I am at the end of the measuring stick - what's next size 1/2.....

[Crankin]

Eden, I have the same issue. Clothes are getting bigger while the sizes get smaller. A few years ago I weighed less and wore a petite 4. Now i wear a 2 or 0 (which is ridiculous). I am a 52 year old woman who does not and will not shop in the kid's dept. In fact, i was at a vintage store last fall and saw a really cute dress in a junior size 3. It looked like something I had in the sixties. I couldn't get it over my hips. The only 2 stores I can walk into and buy off the rack are Ann Taylor and the Loft. I order almost all of my clothes from J Crew or Banana Republic on line. Banana Republic did just open a petites store in a mall not too far from me. I thought I had died and gone to heaven when I could walk into a store and buy a t shirt. Yes, I am short and I weigh what I should for someone five one. But I am a woman with curves and a couple of jingly parts that remain despite the exercise.
There was just an article about this in the Boston Globe. It is a real phenomenon that clothing manufacturers are doing to the public because people don't want to admit they are getting bigger. I confirmed it when I went to Europe last year. I tried on a skirt to buy that said it was the equivalent of an American size 4. It was way too tight, so I bought the next size up, equivalent to a 6. That's my "real" size!

[btchance]

The clothing sizes really get on my nerves also. I'm 24 and can still wear the same clothes as I wore in middle school when I developed hip bones, even the fitted stuff for showing horses and ballet, and I weigh within 5lbs of what I did then. Back then I had no problem finding stuff small enough for me in a size 5. Now, I can't find anything that fits me. Any dress, lab coat (even the xs) or anyting outside of the Junior department (ie my work clothes) has to be taken up to fit. I have to buy jeans in size 1-3 that are still loose in some areas, even though I have those old clothes hanging in the closet that say 5. That's a lot of the reason why I don't like to shop. Anytime I find anything that I like, it never fits.

Oh, and I was looking at the life insurance charts from the 50s and 60s where they give what they viewed as the appropriate weight to height ratio, and according to those I'm ten pounds over weight. However, people are always telling me that I'm too skinny. Has our views on what the appropriate weight to be healthy is really changed that much over half a century?

[Brandi]

You know we can all get upset about this that and the other but the bottom line is" ARE YOU HAPPY "? And if not then try and do your best and try to do someting about it. My mom had to work out to build muscles to look bigger then she was. it took a lot of effort on her part. Yet i have to exercise to maintain. And I could loose 5 or 10 but if I don't? Oh well I still think I look pretty good for 37 year old hard working women. I just try and that counts for a lot! Besides my husband still like my body and that really counts for a lot after 19 years. And he saw me at my prime. Things have changed a bit. lol

[bikerz]

You know we can all get upset about this that and the other but the bottom line is" ARE YOU HAPPY "? And if not then try and do your best and try to do someting about it.

Brandi you hit the nail on the head. I'm pedaling my way through all the weight I have still to lose, and I'm happier than I've ever been, in spite of a pretty rough year. Sure I'd love to have been blessed with a speedy metabolism and a functional childhood, but too bad - I got what I got, and I'm just thankful I finally got in gear (heh heh) to become healthier, and as a result happier. It's a journey, that's for sure - now I also have to contend with feeling like I want to do my 20s and 30s all over again, as a new, more active, me, but whoops - I'm in my 40s! Many more miles still to go!

[salsabike]

Wow - great post FGG!

I think fixedgeargirl and maillotpois pretty much have it right. Nicely said.

Not sure any of us have enough knowledge to make accurate assumptions about why others weigh what they do, on either the large or the small side.

[RoadRaven]

Yes - what the recent gals have said - I don't think many of us are critiquing the small sized women here for being "thin" or "small"

What has come to be in the dock on trial is the perception foisted on us that thin/small is fit and fat/large is unfit...

I think this board is a living testimony to the absolute fact that fit and healthy comes in many shapes, at many ages and from sizes 0 (I didn't know you could get a size 0 in adult size) to the XXXXXs....

Fitness is a lifestyle and life choice, not a tape measure or a set of scales

[mimitabby]

You know we can all get upset about this that and the other but the bottom line is" ARE YOU HAPPY "? lol

I'm not sure the bottom line is "are you happy" i could be happy eating 2 lbs
of chocolate every day but my arteries are going to seize up.

at age of 54 now, the bottom line is; am I healthy? I find that exercise
makes me feel better, a total flip from when i was 20 and exercise was something i considered unpleasant and something to avoid.

I think as you get older the game rules change. What good is it to have everything but your body doesn't work anymore?

and an aside to those that blame obesity on medical factors; check out the
obesity rates among the poor in countries like Zaire and India. It is becoming more and more apparent to me that health problems in our country (obesity, cholesterol, joint issues, etc) are brought about by our unhealthy life style of sitting, driving and eating.

But hey, that's why we're all here right? Happy bike to work day!

mimi

[Dogmama]

Until I went to the gym a few nights ago and easily put up 410lbs on the leg press and could have done more. Apparently that 7lbs of other based on body fat was muscle. I had stopped lifting in February and could only do 290. So on some occasions heavier can mean healthier.

Muscle begins to degrade after 3 days of non-use. You can't gain muscle by sitting around. Gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months without lifting weights is impossible. Heck, gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months is impossible unless you're on steroids.

[ACG]

I have a 22 year old daughter who is 5'4" and weighs 100 lbs. She wears a size 0, sometimes, her ring size is a 4, maybe. She has very fine bones. Versus my other daughter, 15, size 9, 5'2", is more meaty, size 8 ring. People always think my eldest must throw up all the time to keep so thin, it is kinda insulting. She is just naturally thin. I am in the middle in size of my girls. As a mom I make sure they eat healthy, I love to give them wheat pasta, juice with no sugar, turger burgers instead of beef, lots of green beans, etc. I agree with you all, society encourages women to be thin by the clothes they sell and then at the same time can't believe when someone is that thin. Or if a woman has a naturally full bosom she must have had surgery, she couldn't be born with those breasts that big! I struggle to keep my girls self image balanced all the time. It is exhausting! Be happy with who you are!.... Now back to looking at my big, muscular 2 tone legs.

[mimitabby]

haha, once my husband looked at some size two clothing and asked if that's what I wore when I was 13. Nope, I started at size 8 (weighed 105 lbs, 5'3")

now I am all growed up, 54, 125 lbs, 5'3 1/2" and I'm still a size 8.
what's changed is what a size 8 was.

There are a lot of asians in my community and they wear the bulk of the size 0's 2's and 4's. some of us are just too WIDE!

[crazybikinchic]

what sadden's me deeply is that yesterday, a girl that I work with came in with diet pills. She is 5'10 and weighs 151. When I was younger, I was a size 5 and thought that I was fat. Life then happened and circumstances beyond my control allowed me to gain weight. After the death of my daughter, I could not walk up a flight of stairs without being short of breath. I decided that that was enough. I was to young to have that problem. I was also facing my husbands health issues at the time. Exercise was and still is my escape from my problems. Yes, I am fat, but I am one that exercises. The fact that I am fat does not make me unhealthy.
My point is, it does not matter if you are fat or thin, what matters as many others have said, "Are you happy?" Unfortunately, society makes us have threads as this debating what the "ideal" weight is.

[pkq]

I've been thin most of my life. Some have said too thin 'cause I'd have to "pass twice to cast a shadow." Being active probably contributed to my size. My metabolism has been faster than most. I was continuously hungry and felt like an empty pit often so I've eaten copious amounts of food.

My worst diet, a junk food diet, only gets my cholesterol into the 190's. So genetics play a big role in this as well as age, level of physical activity, mental well being, emotional stability, etc.

When my early 40's arrived, that all changed. But I'm still happy with who I am. I have had opportunities and accomplishments in life that I never could even dream of as a child from small town Louisiana. Think below poverty level.

Unhappiness is another form of stress. Stress is very hard on the body and causes the body to do some very strange things. After I left a very stressful job, shed the beau from Hades, and completed a master's, it took months for my body to "get back to normal." Things had stressed so gradually, I hadn't noticed those changes. I thought I was handling the situations pretty well. Imagine my surprise to realize things were changing from what I thought was normal to where they had been functioning prior to all the stress.

As long as you are happy and living life to your fullest potential, don't sweat size. Stressing over size/weight is counter-productive and unhealthy from my perspective.

Life is all about balance for mental, emotional, and physical well being, which takes thought, work, and, sometimes, courage.

[Kathi]

Thanks for all of your replies.

Historically, women have done crazy things to achieve their generations ideal of beauty. In the 1800's thin waists were popular, women wore corsets so tight they endangered their organs and cut off their breathing. In the 1920's there was the flapper, the 1950's was big breasts and curves, (Jayne Mansfield and Marilyn Monroe), 1960's was Twiggy. 1980's was Jane Fonda. A few years ago it was Kate Moss. There have been tons of fad diets, the grapefruit diet, Scarsdale diet and I remember my mom and my friends moms eating cottage cheese with a half a pear or peach for lunch, they were dieting.

Teenagers are prone to self-image problems due to the changes in their bodies but women of all ages have self-image problems, specifically with breasts, hips and stomachs.

In my case, I weighed 85lbs when I graduated from high school in 1966. I had terrible a self image because I was constantly being told how I had no figure, no breasts, hips, etc. When Twiggy appeared I finally had someone to identify with. And about that time my Aunt told me "don't worry about gaining weight, you'll gain it when you get older" So, I just started accepting myself as I was.

I remember my freshman year in high school my friend had gotten big enough to wear a Junior size 7. That was so exciting! No more kids clothes and I couldn't wait. There were no petite sizes. During those years my mom made my clothes or everything had to be altered to fit. I learned to sew and I made my prom dress so I had something that fit decently. Not only that, I learned to alter the patterns because they were to big for me.

Junior petite clothing surfaced around my senior year but the smallest size was a 5. Still too big, but getting closer. In my mid twenties size 3's came on the market and they fit perfectly. From then on, I had plenty of clothes to chose from and so I stopped making my own.

Today, even though I'm 15lbs heavier than those high school days, I wear a size 0 or an XS and sometimes they are too big. Waistlines are too big, shoulders run to wide, pants are too long. I'm almost back to making my own clothes for proper fit!

In my late 30's, I started exercising, Jane Fonda influence. I didn't do it for my health, to lose weight, etc. I started because it was the "thing to do". I continued because I love movement. I spent hours as a kid riding my bike, jumping rope, roller skating, dancing. So aerobics reminded me of all this. I also felt better, handled the stress at work better, skied and biked stronger.

At the same time, my friends chose not to exercise, ignored their weight gains, bought into the over indulged life of alcohol and to much food. Now they're approaching 60 and they are facing the problems of too much weight and the problems that go along with it. One friend, who was a phenomenal skier, now weighs so much and is so out of shape that she has to help herself to stand up. This year, I didn't get to ski with her but a male friend who did commented on how out of shape she is.

From these people I keep hearing, "I know I should exercise, lose weight, eat healthy, etc. but they make no changes". They yo-yo diet for a while or start to exercise, lose a little, but then gain the weight back and add on more pounds. I can't help them because they assume I don't eat. They don't think about how maintaining weight is a commitment, a lifestyle, and feeling good about who you are.

And I'm back where I started from, "you're to thin, you don't eat, that's how you stay thin", and clothes don't fit. But, I'm healthy, have muscle, average 4,000 miles a year on my bike and ski over 50 days a year, and hike. And, yes, I eat! I'm retired, so I don't need fashionable clothes.

I rehabbed very quickly from my ACL surgery which amazes my overweight friends and my physical therapist. 2 friends have stopped skiing after having acl surgery, 1 friend did not ski for 2 years. I'm riding my bike, I started 2 months before the acl protocol recommended and will ski next winter.

Oh, and have you noticed that in magazines for women over 40, it's not about weight loss, but now it's "anti-aging diets"!

[snapdragen]

Oh, and have you noticed that in magazines for women over 40, it's not about weight loss, but now it's "anti-aging diets"!

Noooooo! Let's not go there!!!:D

ps - Kathi, I remember having to take in every pair of pants I bought in high school; was shaped similarly to you. Finally just started making my own!

[Kathi]

Muscle begins to degrade after 3 days of non-use. You can't gain muscle by sitting around. Gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months without lifting weights is impossible. Heck, gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months is impossible unless you're on steroids.


Dogmama, I'm with you on this one. All it takes is an injury to demonstrate how quickly muscle is lost. When I tore my MCL/ACL in Jan. within 2 weeks the injured leg had lost all muscle tone. My leg shunk in size and looked horrible. PT brought back some of the strength and shape but ACL surgery slowed the progress. The uninjured leg also lost shape and strength but not as much.

While I did not lose as much muscle after surgery, I started PT immediately, it has taken a long time to regain the strength in the injured leg. At the end of April I had 85% of the strength of the uninjured leg. My injured quad still does not have the same shape as my uninjured quad, the vastus medialis muscle is not back 100% yet and I don't have the cardio or muscle endurance that I had before my injury. My hamstrings and glutes also lost strength so I'm doing specific exercises to strengthen them.

Sometimes I do leg presses and I can do about half amount of weight with my uninjured leg as I could do before the injury.

Next week, I'll be 3 months from surgery and progress is slower than what I'd like it to be, although, considering what I've been though, I've come a long way in a short time.

[Kathi]

Noooooo! Let's not go there!!!:D

ps - Kathi, I remember having to take in every pair of pants I bought in high school; was shaped similarly to you. Finally just started making my own!


Snapdragen, it's not only clothes but bras too! My Dr. told me it was not good to go braless but bras were so uncomfortable, I'd take them off as soon as I got home and since I've been retired only wore them when I exercised or went out.

It was probably due to the changes in my body, and boredom, after my ACL injury but my breasts were looking saggier than normal. I started searching the internet for an exercise bra that would be comfortable enough to wear all day. Instead, I found out I was wearing the wrong size bra! Instead of a 32C I should have been in a 30D. The only thing I can figure is that when I was measured for bras size 32 bands were the smallest so that's what they sold me.

I found an online company that sells odd sized bras, they charged for shipping but not for returns, so I tried a couple of 30D's. I love them, they are not uncomfortable, I can wear them all day right up until bedtime. Now I have a collection of pretty bras that I love wearing, my clothes look better and I don't feel old and saggy any more.

BTW, I kept noticing the low cut clothing worn by the women on the TV show's, specifically, Sex and the City, and how good they looked. So, sometimes, the media is not all bad. I may not look as good as those women but I'm now very comfortable wearing a bra! :)

[RoadRaven]

My Dr. told me it was not good to go braless but bras were so uncomfortable, I'd take them off as soon as I got home...

Hey there Kathi, very interesting post - thank you for sharing...

I just wanted to add in here re your bra comment, that a sports crop top is an excellent alternative to a bra. I really dislike bras too, and tend to shed them as soon as I get home. But my breasts get cold - so I pop on a crop top, warm and supportive.

Glad you have found the right thing for you though.

[Kathi]

Hey there Kathi, very interesting post - thank you for sharing...

I just wanted to add in here re your bra comment, that a sports crop top is an excellent alternative to a bra. I really dislike bras too, and tend to shed them as soon as I get home. But my breasts get cold - so I pop on a crop top, warm and supportive.

Glad you have found the right thing for you though.


RoadRaven, I actually wore a Moving Comfort Sports bra as an everyday bra but what I didn't realize is that bras stretch over time so when you buy a bra it should hook in the first hook from the end not the last hook as mine were doing. As the bra stretches then you can move to the 2nd and 3rd hooks. Also, bras only last about 6 mos and you should not wash them in the washing machine. I read pros and cons about the washing machine but decided to go back the hand washing method and hope that these last longer than 6 mos.

I also read that something like 80% of women are wearing the wrong size bras.
It's funny that I've worn the wrong size bra for about 30 years!

[RoadRaven]

OMG... hand wash bras?

Fraid I don't have the time for that - although I do remember my ma telling me that a loooong time ago... hmmm, maybe I should have listened.

[donnambr]

Also, bras only last about 6 mos and you should not wash them in the washing machine. I read pros and cons about the washing machine but decided to go back the hand washing method and hope that these last longer than 6 mos.

If you have a front loader, you can usually machine wash them in bags without very much damage. A front loader's delicate cycle is very, very gentle.

[ladyjai]

6 month life span?! oh dear.. I had bras last a good 7 years at the least! and they were not expensive :rolleyes: I take everything through the washing machine, though i rarely use anything heavier than the gentle cycle.

I'd rather be healthy, though to hear some of the folks here, I'd be considered thin! though certainly not as much as you kathy.
i think there is a preconceived notion that thin=unhealthy, and thick=unhealthy. but folks get real hazy where perfect is. if you as as thin as a super model, folks will tell you to gain weight, but yet, they desire to look that thin themselves.... :confused: the media sucks.

Like these wonderful gals have taught me, it's about being healthy and active. If you can get on your bike and put in the time and distance, and you are not hindered significantly by your weight, be it too little or too much, then you're probably just right.

[Dogmama]

Don't forget that muscle weighs more than fat. Post surgery, I lost about 7 pounds very quickly - mainly muscles in my legs. I'll never forget looking at my legs on the leg press machine first day in the gym & thinking "Whose skinny legs are those?"

Also, "thin" women can have a higher body fat percentage than normal weight women. Fat doesn't need any calories to exist. Many women gain & lose the same 20 pounds over & over - except that each time it gets harder to take off because metabolism is all messed up.

Muscles need 50 calories/day/per pound to exist. It pays to get into the weight room. Your bones will get stronger, you'll get definition and you'll be sprinting up hills before you know it!! AND - (here's the best part) your metabolism will be raised throughout the day so you can toss back that extra Hershey's kiss (or two...three.. ) and not feel guilty - or think "I'll ride it off tomorrow."

[CR400]

Muscle begins to degrade after 3 days of non-use. You can't gain muscle by sitting around. Gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months without lifting weights is impossible. Heck, gaining 7 pounds of muscle in a few months is impossible unless you're on steroids.


Ok, then explain why I can suddenly lift 120lbs (410) or more, I stopped there afraide I may hurt myself before a big ride? Because I was truely shocked and mystified as to why this happened. My thought is it can only be muscle mass gain. And I don't just sit around my job requires me to stand 8 hours a day. When I rode my bike I had done lots of climbing, sprint over short hills and grind out long ones, work at trying to maintian speeds over 20mph even on long false flats.

As far as some of you ladies don't be bothered but what other people say about your size, truth is you are blessed to be small and have worked hard to stay there. People, especailly big people like myself, are usually actually jealous. It irritates me that I'll always be big even at a size 8 I have broad shoulders and the body even at its smallest to go with them.

[Dogmama]

Below is a link explaining exercise and its affect on muscle growth (or atrophy.)

http://sportsci.org/encyc/adaptex/adaptex.html

of note is the quote from the article:

Muscles will atrophy as a result of disuse, immobilization, and starvation. Muscles adapt to increasing levels of stress by increasing their function. Disuse leads to decreasing strength and muscle mass. Atrophy results in a decrease in both contractile and sarcoplasmic protein.

It is interesting reading if you like to learn about the science behind muscles.

[RoadRaven]

It irritates me that I'll always be big even at a size 8 I have broad shoulders and the body even at its smallest to go with them.

I've always had broad shoulders (thanks dad :rolleyes: ) and my partner thinks them very sexy...

I think of them as strong and useful for friends who need something to cry on.

I like them in summer, cause I can show them off - in fact - I think replying to your post has just made me recognise something I really like about my body...

I like my shoulders!:p

Thanks CR :D

[Lenusik]

I like them in summer, cause I can show them off - in fact - I think replying to your post has just made me recognise something I really like about my body...


Thanks CR :D

Yes, thank you CR. Because I finally see something here. I know that I stirred some unconfortable discussion last week. But when a woman realizes that there is so much to like about yourself, it is great. It does not matter what size you are. What matters is what you do for yourself to feel better and look better. "Better" is your own definition. Just do what's best for you and there is no need to please anybody else. Be proud of your effort if you make one and kick yourself if you don't make it. Just be happy with who you are!

[Dogmama]

I'm going to get raked over the coals - but here goes...

Not including genuine metabolic disorders and things out of our control...

I really shiver when I hear people, mainly women, who are overweight say, "Oh it's OK because I like myself." Then they complain because airlines make them purchase two seats. Or XX sizes cost more. Oh, God forbid, they have to use stairs because the escalator isn't working. It isn't politically correct to point out that a few less Big Macs and a few laps around the track might be a good idea.

Here's the bottom line (pun intended.)

It doesn't affect just the overweight people, it affects all of us in terms of strain on the health care system which we all pay for. When a smoker gets lung cancer, we all point to their bad health habits. When an overweight person has a heart attack (diabetes, cancer, arthritis, etc.), it is not politically correct to point out that they probably bear as much responsibility as the smoker for their health problems.

Health care premiums are skyrocketing and experts agree that most of our health problems are preventable with lifestyle alteration. I, for one, am becoming resentful of paying for people too lazy to get to the gym or too undisciplined to make a salad rather than call out for pizza.

Lots of my friends are overweight. I still love them and I don't harp on their weight problems. They know that if (when) they decide to make the change, they can come to me for support. They also know that they can't complain to me about how hard it is to find a cute skirt in their size.

OK - let the flame wars begin! But I won't be here - I'm going to the gym. :p

[bikerz]

This is all very interesting - so many different perspectives and experiences!

DM - you're right that there are broader sociological and economic considerations and consequences bound up in this issue - and clearly these are big topics that are being talked about at a societal level. And as individual members of this society, we all have our own specific metabolic and emotional reactions to food, exercise, and self-image.

Maybe it's the use of the word "happy" that's part of the problem - does it mean content, numb, settled and safe (as it used to for me), or does it mean challenge, stretch, discovery and change (as it does now). Of course, I'm only speaking for myself. :o

[allabouteva]

I think DM makes a very valid point. Obesity is an epidemic, particularly in developed countries. It's no coincidence that this is so in countries like the US and Australia.

And I agree with Bikerz, there are a lot of factors, in this being so, including lifestyle lifestyle lifestyle. The way we plan our cities where we are encouraged to drive everywhere, the crime factor where we're too scared to walk down the street (in some communities we don't let our kids walk to school), the jobs that seem to demand 40+ hours a week, the material goodies we want to accumulate, and of course the list goes on....

We can do our small part to counter these trends, by being cycling evangelists!:D And promote the buzz we get in cycling and all the other great benefits we get including our health etc.

[betagirl]

DM, no flame here from me. I agree with everything you said. ;)

[mtkitchn]

I agree with you too, Dogmama.

[caligurl]

no flames from me, dogmama!

[Grog]

I tend to agree with Dogmama.

However, from my training as a sociologist, I can't help but have a look at cross-tables showing obesity rates and socio-economic status levels.



First, let's note that there is a general trend toward getting heavier, in all groups of the North American society. Of course we all know rich people who are big and poor people who are thin as a rail. The general correlation though is that the less socio-economically privileged, the more chances there are of being overweight or obese.

Now this is open to different explanations, but I really think that it's a bit easy to says that it's because poor people are lazy. I have really enjoyed reading Barbara Ehrenreich's book 'Nickel & Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America' and found her insight into the working-poor life extremely enlightening. In particular, I appreciated how she described her relation to cooking and food when she was working two jobs or just crazy hours, and how constituting a base for eating well (getting the basic ingredients that actually make what you cook taste like something, buying fresh fruits and produce, etc.) was expensive or plain difficult. I personally shop for groceries at small markets and I realize how much more expensive it is. When I go to other parts of town (when cycling for example) and stop at grocery stores, I am always surprised at the narrowness of the selection of fresh food and broadness of the selection of junk. I also happen to have a "food culture": I was raised on a farm, always ate fresh produce (I still cringe pretty badly at eating tomatoes and asparus in the Winter!) and basic ingredients (using almost nothing that was prepared in advance by some industry), and was taught how important it was to have three balanced meals a day. Not everyone, or, dare I say, not many people were raised like that. Hence most have a lot to learn about healthy life habits, and few have the means to make them come true.

And I won't get started about exercising.

In what I picture as an ideal world, people would not have to go to gyms or consciously 'exercise' to stay fit. They would live close to their work place and walk or bike there, run errands on foot, carry their babies on their backs, etc. I always lived in a medium-size city (Montreal) where doing this was possible. Most people around me did not exercise on purpose, but most were pretty fit and we had among the lowest obesity rates across Canada. Of course, on a nice Sunday, those who feel like going for a 100 km bike ride can do so, but others might rather stick to a good book and take a walk in the park at sunset, and stop for a few minutes to dance at the drumfest if they felt like it.

But I was a middle-class student with the means to afford such a lifestyle, in a very particular city. Most people in America life in very different circumstances, and such a lifestyle is absolutely not accessible for most.

So I tend to agree with Dogmama that obesity is a public health problem and should be treated as such. But I know we have to keep our eyes open for social and economic determinants to this public health problem. The way our cities, lives and societies are arranged at this moment do not give many chances to less privileged people to eat well and live healthy lifestyles, let alone exercise.

It is our responsibility as individuals to take care of ourselves, eat and live with care. But it is also our responsibility as individuals to work towards healthier cities and lives for all by getting involved as citizens for better cities and societies where resources of all sorts are more accessible to all, not just in principle but in fact.

[bikerz]

I have really enjoyed reading Barbara Ehrenreich's book 'Nickel & Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America' and found her insight into the working-poor life extremely enlightening. In particular, I appreciated how she described her relation to cooking and food when she was working two jobs or just crazy hours, and how constituting a base for eating well (getting the basic ingredients that actually make what you cook taste like something, buying fresh fruits and produce, etc.) was expensive or plain difficult.
That book made a huge impact on me too. I used to live in a kind of down and out neighborhood in oakland, and there were no grocery stores within walking distance. I was lucky enough at the time to have a somewhat reliable car, but many of my neighbors were on the bus, and the only places to buy groceries without making a long excursion out of it were the mom-and-pop liquor stores on every corner. Not much in the way of seasonal produce there, but plenty of inexpensive junk food.

I live in a different neighborhood now, and I went to my local farmers market Sunday - the produce was beautiful, varied, organic - all good stuff. But I had forgotten my wallet - all I had was $5 in my pocket and I literally could not buy enough for a meal. It was definitely the opposite extreme!

In some ways, a healthy lifestyle is sort of luxury now. It's like the way being tan used to be bad - it meant you worked outdoors. Then tan was good, because it meant you had leisure time to bask in the sun at some beach.


It is our responsibility as individuals to take care of ourselves, eat and live with care. But it is also our responsibility as individuals to work towards healthier cities and lives for all by getting involved as citizens for better cities and societies where resources of all sorts are more accessible to all, not just in principle but in fact.
Very well said!

[caligurl]

i did notice... when we first started eating healthier... we were spending more money on groceries.... frest produce is NOT cheap! i'm used to it now.... plus have my shopping down to a science, for the most part....

it is cheaper to by a .99 frozen tv dinner than to fix a healthy meal though!