Toes falling asleep?

[colby]

When I go for more than about 10 miles, my toes start to fall asleep (only on one foot, isn't that great? ;)). I have Sidi Genius 5 Lorica shoes, with 2 straps and the ratcheting top buckle dealie (they must not be Mega because they don't have the silver color on them like Sidi's site shows). I do have wide feet (my running shoes are EE), though the shoes seem to fit fine normally (they are narrower and stiffer than my softie running shoes, but that's to be expected).

I tried adjusting the bottom-most strap to be a little more loose, right near the toes, but still my toes got unhappy. If I un-ratchet the buckle, it feels like I have too much heel slide when walking (but will I notice that when biking?).

Any input is welcome. Maybe I really do just need to keep playing. Maybe I should have tried on the Megas, I think LBS where I bought them did have them. They did have me try the womens model first, which was so clearly a no-go it was amusing.

[KnottedYet]

There are a couple threads going right now about Morton's Neuroma. Might want to check that out as a possibility.

Do you have a callous under the 2nd or 3rd "knuckle" on the sole of that foot? Could be a sign of a dropped metatarsal head. (flattened metatarsal arch, which causes all sorts of pressure-related problems)

A simple pair of $5 met arch pads could help your problem if it isn't due to the width of the shoes.

Do you pronate? That can also cause pressure issues. Do you wear Superfeet or something similar? ($25-$30 replacement insoles)

No need for expensive custom insoles if Superfeet and met pads will do the trick.

[bike4ever]

KnottedYet - Great suggestions! Our shop is part of an outdoors store that specializes in guaranteed boot fits (hiking, ski & now cycling shoes). We use everything you mentioned.

In both my everyday & cyling shoes I have superfeet. On both I have created a small cut out for a dropped met head. This works great for me.

[colby]

There are a couple threads going right now about Morton's Neuroma. Might want to check that out as a possibility.

Do you have a callous under the 2nd or 3rd "knuckle" on the sole of that foot? Could be a sign of a dropped metatarsal head. (flattened metatarsal arch, which causes all sorts of pressure-related problems)

A simple pair of $5 met arch pads could help your problem if it isn't due to the width of the shoes.

Do you pronate? That can also cause pressure issues. Do you wear Superfeet or something similar? ($25-$30 replacement insoles)

No need for expensive custom insoles if Superfeet and met pads will do the trick.

Hmmm. When I run, I sometimes get blisters on this foot (my right) under my big toe, but not the other foot. The only callouses I have on my entire foot are at the widest part of my feet -- you know, where the bunion goes in the future ;) I don't feel anything on the ball of my foot that's noticeable. As far as pronation goes, I do tend to run on the inside of my feet, especially when I get tired.

I do have similar problems in my snowboard boots with my toes falling asleep; in my boots I have the added enjoyment of arch pain, too. Was going to try a heel cup and possibly replacement insoles, but the ski season ended before I realized it was worth my while to investigate the problem :(

Thanks for your help!

[colby]

KnottedYet - Great suggestions! Our shop is part of an outdoors store that specializes in guaranteed boot fits (hiking, ski & now cycling shoes). We use everything you mentioned.

In both my everyday & cyling shoes I have superfeet. On both I have created a small cut out for a dropped met head. This works great for me.

My dad bought his ski boots at a shop that guarantees their fit, didn't even occur to me people would do that for cycling shoes. :) No replacement for a local shop of any kind that actually cares about more than selling you what's on the shelf.

Sounds like maybe I should invest in some Superfeet, if nothing else, just to increase my comfort level. If I don't like them in my cycling shoes, I can always use them in my regular everyday shoes (though there is a size difference -- my regular shoes are a womens' 8 (skate shoes, the only womens shoes I can wear), my running shoes a mens 8EE, and my cycling shoes a 41).

Thanks for your input. Wish I could have bought my shoes and had them fitted from someone like you ;)

[KnottedYet]

Yes! Go get Superfeet! Or something similar, there are several brands that are good. There are a few different footbeds made by Superfeet, and they are named for sports. Pay no attention to the names! Work with the sales staff to find the one that fits you best and get it, whatever it's called or whoever makes it. Try someplace like "Shoes-n-Feet" in Shoreline or Seattle. I'd avoid REI for the fitting part.

Don't buy the ones that they mold to your feet. What will happen is they make a mold of an unhappy foot, and the molded insole forces your foot into that unhappy position. (those cost about $65)

Plain ol' neutral footbeds are the best way to go. They will be tiring at first. Your foot will be placed into a position that allows the muscles to do their jobs again. They'll get tired just like any muscle you start using again. Wear them until your feet get tired, then take them out. Put 'em in again the next day.

From your blister/bunion description, it sounds like you do a "medial heel whip". Try stretching your calves a bit more often and see if that helps.

If nothing cheap and simple helps you really should go to a sports med doc and a sports PT.

[Cari]

When you went to buy shoes, did they measure both your feet on a Sidi Brannock device? Different-sized feet might explain why you're only having problems with one foot. When you loosen the buckle, does your heel slide out of both shoes, or just one? Have you tried slightly changing the cleat position on the numb foot?

Sometimes people with wide feet get used to going up a size to accomodate the extra width. If this is the case, then maybe you're tightening the straps too much in order to keep your heel in place, and thus reducing circulation to your toes. In addition to that, if one of your shoes is a tad too long, then when your foot starts to sweat, it can slide forwards and backwards inside the shoe, which can also hurt your toes. Or the heel slip thing might just be because it's a men's shoe, which has a wider heel than a women's shoe.

Are your current Sidis in a full size, or a half size? The sole on half sizes is the same length as that of the corresponding half size, but there's more fabric on the upper -- similar to the Mega shoes, but to a lesser degree. So if you're using a full size, I suggest trying the half sizes above and below your current size as an alternative to a Mega. Since you said that you overpronate, I'm guessing that you might have low arches, so the extra material on a half size might be enough to accomodate the extra width.

In fact, I would even suggest that you try a women's half size. I have wide feet too, with low arches, and what worked best for me was going up a half size. My old Sidis were men's 41's and like you, I had problems with both toe numbness and heel slippage. I would wear thick socks so that my heel wouldn't slip out and my big toe wouldn't jam against the front of the shoe, but the shoe felt narrow in the toebox, to the point that towards the end of a long ride, it would go from numbness to a burning sensation. My new Sidis are women's 41.5 and they fit *much* better than the men's 41 or 42 (which were huge). They actually feel wider in the front than the men's 41, but narrower in the back so that it cradles my heel in place. I still wear the thick socks, but now the shoes fit like a glove.

Good luck with your search, and please let us know how it turns out.

[colby]

Thanks, Knotted. I agree about the molded footbeds, if my foot is on the wrong position now, why would I want to take a snapshot of it? Seems silly.

I wasn't impressed with REI's footbed selection at all last time I was there; plus, the salespeople are knowledgeable about gear, but not as much about your body. I bought my bike there and they were great, but I'm not so sure I'd do shoe fitting or anything that specific there :)

I am seeing a PT for a shoulder injury (from snowboarding, months ago *sigh*), I could probably ask her what she thinks as well.

[colby]

When you went to buy shoes, did they measure both your feet on a Sidi Brannock device? Different-sized feet might explain why you're only having problems with one foot. When you loosen the buckle, does your heel slide out of both shoes, or just one? Have you tried slightly changing the cleat position on the numb foot?

Nope, they didn't measure my feet at all :( They went by my shoe size and we started from there. I tried on some womens shoes in a 41 (I think, maybe even 42) and they were way too narrow, but I didn't go much further in the womens line. I started with the mens line at a 42, which were way too long.

With my running shoes, if I tie them equally, my right (numb toes foot) slips out of the heel more than the left. I imagine my cycling shoes are the same, but I'm blanking out on my most recent trip. ;)

This is my first pair of bike shoes, so I haven't adjusted anything. I'm still getting used to deciding if something is my problem (adjusting to the shoes) or an equipment problem (needs to be adjusted to me).


Sometimes people with wide feet get used to going up a size to accomodate the extra width. If this is the case, then maybe you're tightening the straps too much in order to keep your heel in place, and thus reducing circulation to your toes. In addition to that, if one of your shoes is a tad too long, then when your foot starts to sweat, it can slide forwards and backwards inside the shoe, which can also hurt your toes. Or the heel slip thing might just be because it's a men's shoe, which has a wider heel than a women's shoe.

Are your current Sidis in a full size, or a half size? The sole on half sizes is the same length as that of the corresponding half size, but there's more fabric on the upper -- similar to the Mega shoes, but to a lesser degree. So if you're using a full size, I suggest trying the half sizes above and below your current size as an alternative to a Mega. Since you said that you overpronate, I'm guessing that you might have low arches, so the extra material on a half size might be enough to accomodate the extra width.

In fact, I would even suggest that you try a women's half size. I have wide feet too, with low arches, and what worked best for me was going up a half size. My old Sidis were men's 41's and like you, I had problems with both toe numbness and heel slippage. I would wear thick socks so that my heel wouldn't slip out and my big toe wouldn't jam against the front of the shoe, but the shoe felt narrow in the toebox, to the point that towards the end of a long ride, it would go from numbness to a burning sensation. My new Sidis are women's 41.5 and they fit *much* better than the men's 41 or 42 (which were huge). They actually feel wider in the front than the men's 41, but narrower in the back so that it cradles my heel in place. I still wear the thick socks, but now the shoes fit like a glove.

Good luck with your search, and please let us know how it turns out.

Wow, that was a lot of information. I was trying to reply to something in the middle, but it just didn't make sense ;)

I have the same heel slippage in my running shoes, which I had to buy in a men's size because the women's sizing is too narrow, even at a wide width. My current Sidis are a 41 flat, no half size or anything. When I wear them around they feel fine, but after cycling in them, that's where the toes start to numb. I do get some numbness on my left foot too, but to a lesser degree.

I'm fighting (mentally) making a bad purchase and having to spend twice as much just to find the right shoe, but I suppose I could always sell my current shoes and at least make back some of the money. I guess it's worth trying some of the other shoes just to see how they feel, the LBS where I bought my current shoes seemed to have a pretty decent selection of mens and womens Sidis. I really want to say the womens had no chance of fitting my width, but I didn't try a lot of lengths because I hate falling into that "go up two sizes just to get a shoe that fits" trap.

It does make me feel better to know other people have the same problem. ;) When I shop for shoes, it's like pulling teeth. I tried on almost every running shoe last time I went shopping, and ended up compromising even then. ARGH!

I guess I can attack this from different angles... with my current shoes, I can try wearing a footbed, loosening the shoes a bit, and maybe wearing thicker socks (I am wearing pretty thin socks, but my feet sweat a lot so I don't like to wear thick ones).

In my next life, I'll have those feet that actually fit the shoes. I'll go to the shoe store, and I'll pick them right off the shelf, try them on, and they'll fit great without trying on the women's version, the men's version, the men's wide version, the women's wide version, the women's version in 3 other sizes, the men's version in 2 other sizes, the men's wide version in 1 other size, and settling on one that doesn't fit right but at least doesn't make me feel like I'm bustin' out like that high school girl wearing the prom dress that's too small because she doesn't want to admit she has to wear a size 8.

My dad, who also has wide feet (so does his mom), calls them Fred Flintstone feet -- I think that's pretty accurate :D

[Susan Otcenas]

Something else to consider is your pedal stroke.

Many cyclists tend to do all their pedaling on the downstroke, instead of pedaling circles (push down, pull back, then pull up and over. ) All that continual downward pressure on the ball of your foot can make your toes go to sleep.

I suffer from toes falling asleep occasionally (happens more in my Sidis than my other shoes, no doubt due to the very thin, not-very-cushiony footbed). When this happens, I make a conscious effort to make nice round pedal strokes and this almost always brings the feeling back into my toes.

To practice this, and really get an idea for what pedaling circles feels like, unclip one foot and do all the pedaling with the other. You'll soon find the dead spot(s) in your pedal stroke. Do this a few times on both legs, then try to apply the same technique with both feet clipped in.

Now, if I could only get myself to more often practice what I preach, my toes would fall aspleep less often! ;)

Susan

[Dianyla]

What Susan said. Also, I always have to be mindful that I'm not pointing my toes downward as I'm pedaling - that just jams my feet down into the toebox no matter how well the shoes fit. It's also horrible for your knees. Calf/ankle stretches help me keep my feet level.

[colby]

Something else to consider is your pedal stroke.

Many cyclists tend to do all their pedaling on the downstroke, instead of pedaling circles (push down, pull back, then pull up and over. ) All that continual downward pressure on the ball of your foot can make your toes go to sleep.

I suffer from toes falling asleep occasionally (happens more in my Sidis than my other shoes, no doubt due to the very thin, not-very-cushiony footbed). When this happens, I make a conscious effort to make nice round pedal strokes and this almost always brings the feeling back into my toes.

To practice this, and really get an idea for what pedaling circles feels like, unclip one foot and do all the pedaling with the other. You'll soon find the dead spot(s) in your pedal stroke. Do this a few times on both legs, then try to apply the same technique with both feet clipped in.

Now, if I could only get myself to more often practice what I preach, my toes would fall aspleep less often! ;)

Good advice, Susan. I'm still adjusting to the clipless pedals and being able to "pull" as well as "push" to get myself moving. I know that I'm doing it on hills (the inside of my thighs and my lower abdominal muscles are telling me so ;)) but I'm not so sure I'm doing it everywhere else.

I'll definitely practice the full stroke next time I ride. That's a cheap solution! Superfeet come next.

Cari also sent me the Sidi size chart so I can actually measure my feet and make sure I'm in the right sizes. Her advice about half sizes up and down intrigued me, even though I may be afraid of having to invest another $230 to get it right ;)

Thanks, everyone.

[bcipam]

You do realize 100 miles is a long ride and punishing to your feet. If you don't have any problems on shorter rides, say less than 50 miles, I wouldn't get too worried about your problem. As suggested, make sure you wiggle your toes around now and then and to take some time off the bike and pedals to rest your feet. I don't know many people who don't have foot problems doing a century.

[colby]

You do realize 100 miles is a long ride and punishing to your feet. If you don't have any problems on shorter rides, say less than 50 miles, I wouldn't get too worried about your problem. As suggested, make sure you wiggle your toes around now and then and to take some time off the bike and pedals to rest your feet. I don't know many people who don't have foot problems doing a century.

Well, I wish I was going 100 miles ;) It's actually more like 10 miles when I start to feel numbness, though with my current bike buddies, that does take 45 minutes to an hour. On my last 25 mile+ ride, my feet must have been numb a good half of the time.

I guess when I do have 100 miles under my belt, I can plan on feet problems! :p

Pulling my feet off the pedals is a good idea for numbness at any distance, though I admit I am a little afraid of unclipping while riding at any decent speed. Usually I forget to wiggle my toesies until it's too late :(

[Kyna]

Just echoing what some of the other ladies have said:

Mashing down on the pedals will put more pressure on the nerves of the ball and arches of your feet. I can tell whenever I get sloppy with my circular pedaling this will happen and I will get a little numbness. Focusing on smooth pedaling always will release some of that pressure (I used to unclip and shake my foot which can help too).


Getting shoes that are too small is probably one of the more straightforward things to cause numbness. I bought 2 pairs of shoes that both wound up being too small by just basing the purchace off my normal sneaker size and how they "fit" ok in the store based on how I would buy sneakers. Apparently I like my shoes snug in shoes but this doesn't work with bikes. :)

Sidis run very small. I have the $230 pair variety also, and I went with a shoe size 2 larger than my normal size (from Eruo 36/7 to 39) and now I have no major numbness problems. The toe box somedays still feels small with thick socks so for long rides I still take the extra thin socks with me.

Other problems would be an improper bike fit which puts you at a bad geometry and you are putting pressure on a nerve "further up" which you then feel in your feet.

My instinct tells me your shoes might be too small considering just how large I had to go to get a proper fit and foot problems I've had in the past related to too small shoes.

Before you go buying new shoes, try wearing the thinnest possible socks you own and see if that makes your problems any better. If it does you can always Ebay those old pair and spring for the bigger size. Its worth it!. ;)

[ChainsOflove]

I have this too, toes going dead on my right foot mostly. ALmost all my shoes are men's 40's and I am thinking now the prob is that they are actually too big/wide and my toes are crunched forward.

Its my right foot, which makes sense as its the lead foot.

[ChainsOflove]

Once they stayed numb for so long it freaked me out, like for 4 hours after I stopped riding!.

[greenmtngrrl]

Okay, coming late to the game...

I have a similar problem with the toes on my left foot starting to fall asleep after 20-30 minutes of riding. I've been riding clipless for a few years and never had the problem until recently when I tried new pedals (switched from Shimano SPDs to Candies) and new shoes. At first I blamed the new shoes and switched the cleats to the old shoes. Nope, still have the problem. Made adjustments to cleats, still have the problem. My next step is to put SPD cleats back on my new shoes and my old shoes and go back to my old pedals and see if I have the problem. If I do, I'm not sure what my next step will be...

I really wanted the Candies to work because I find them so much easier to get into and out of. Lucky for me I was able to use an extra pair of the boyfriend's Candies and hadn't purchased my own yet.

[KnottedYet]

I put some metatarsal pads on my insoles (Spectrum Stabilizers, a lot like Superfeet). Some German brand, gray leather covers, $6 for the pair. Anyway, they really helped with my numbness. I also like to stretch out the leather on the pinky toe side of the left shoe (the one that goes numb) on all my shoes.

That's what works for me. Your results may vary.

[Nanci]

I don't know if this makes you feel better, but after my 600k, it took my toes a couple days to wake up from their nap. They seemed to suffer no permanent damage.

Nanci

[Lise]

I finally went to my doc and got a referral to a sports podiatrist. Haven't made that appt yet. My doc said, "maybe Morton's neuroma" too. Who knows. It's the middle two toes on my left foot. I'll let you know what I find out.

[plantluvver]

I've just always picked out my own shoes. ( I am not into special biking shoes yet, not even toe clips.) But I have constantly tired feet and I've had problems with plantar fasciaitis in the past. I've recently had some knee pain that I think is due to walking pigeon toed with one foot.

I notice I tend to walk differently when I get tired, and also can suffer hip pain if I am not mindful and overdo stuff at times.

Can someone really tell me if I can improve my gait? I always thought you only get treated for injuries.

[summer]

Before you shell out for new shoes, get some medical advice. I had this problem, and thought I also had shin splints, but it turned out to be 'chrionic anterior compartment syndrome' and I need very carefully designed inserts for all my shoes (as well as a myriad of other treatments). If you try the one leg cycling thing, and find your shins hurt or the muscle down the front aches, this might be a reason...quite common in pronators apparently. Pain in your shins when you're standing on the pedals (climbing) is another sign. Another possibility is restricted blood flow in your femural artery when you're on the bike. A doctor can find this quickly by listening to the blood flow in your hip joint when you're in a cycling like position. Worth checking out!

[KSH]

I have SIDI's too... and my foot/toes always go to sleep. It's really bad on the leg that I hardly ever unclip.

The other day my entire foot when numb... I finally had to clip and shake it out... while still pedaling with the other leg.

And.. you know, I hate my Sidi shoes. I hope I can buy some new shoes someday!

[KnottedYet]

Plant - any PT will help you with your gait. Exercises to correct muscle imbalances at the hip, posture exercises for the foot, etc. They'll probably recommend a type of insole and type of shoe to help, too.

My favorite stuff to work with is women's lower extremity kinetic chain trouble and posture. Call around until you find a PT who likes working with your stuff. If they tell you the hip pain, knee pain, and pf aren't all related to each other you might consider finding a different one. And it doesn't have to be a woman PT, men understand the mechanics of women's legs, too.

Picking a PT is like picking an LBS...:D

[ChainsOflove]

I don't know if this makes you feel better, but after my 600k, it took my toes a couple days to wake up from their nap. They seemed to suffer no permanent damage.

Nanci


NANCI!!! YOU SCARE ME!!!:D Just kiddin', you rule!!