Unwanted wheel sucker

[betagirl]

An ettiquette question for you all. Yesterday was really windy and I was on the lakefront path in chicago, plowing ahead into the gusting wind probably around mile 70 of my ride for the day. I notice this guy sitting on my wheel, only because I happened to look to my right out at the lake. He never said "hey do you mind" or "can I sit here" or whatever I've normally heard from a rider asking for a break or if I've asked to draft off someone when tired. When I slowed down to let him pass, he slowed down. It became clear he wasn't going to get off my wheel. So I got annoyed, and proceeded to drop him. But my legs were tanked and he caught up with me again. Dropped him again, this time for good. But I burned up a lot of my energy doing it with about 15 miles to get home. Needless to say I was hurting the rest of the way.

I don't know, was it wrong for me to get so pissed at him for sitting back there? I don't mind someone drafting for a little while but a) acknowledge you're back there and b) offer to pull once and a while. I *wanted* to say "get off my f***ing wheel" but that seemed rude. :D Instead I beat my legs up probably more than they needed. But it did feel good to drop his sorry butt.

Thoughts on what to do?

[SadieKate]

Yes, he was rude. Why didn't you just ask him to let you ride alone?

I don't mind people drafting if 1) I know them and know they have the skills to draft and 2) they ask. If someone shows up out of the blue and doesn't meet the above criteria, I expect them to ask or acknowledge the draft. If they can't take a pull, no problem, but he needs to have said so.

Not to mention, if I'm riding alone, I get the creeps when a strange man rides that close to me without a word. As women, we're told to keep an eye on potential danger when we're walking anywhere so even on the bike I am alert.

Plus, there are just some days when I want to ride by myself without the responsibility of someone nearby. There are times it is fun to draft or be drafted and times for solo serenity.

Don't be meek. :)

[maillotpois]

I hate that. But if you suck my wheel without me knowing, you run a huge risk. I am a constant nose blower! (Just the left nostril - don't ask me why.) Many's the time I have unknowingly blasted a wheel sucker I didn't know was there!! (Sucks when I am riding with friends and they happen to be quiet and I haven't double checked to make sure they're there before I let loose, though.)

So maybe something to try next time? Pretend you don't know he's there and fire one off...!

[Nanci]

I think a really obvious way to let someone know you don't want them drafting is to pull off way to the left and slow down.

Nanci

[CorsairMac]

It's my understand that drafting without asking is rude. I haven't had it happen to me but I would probably treat if like a tailgater - if he won't get off your wheel, then just pull over and stop. Take a break, eat something, catch your breathe - let him go on by. It isn't worth it to ruin your legs becuase of him - coz I'm guessing by the time he finished His ride He wasn't burned out! ;)

[Popoki_Nui]

This same scenario happend to me yesterday ...in reverse...sort of. I was inbound finishing my ride when I heard voices behind me. Two guys were close behind, riding double file (path etiquette says single file only) and having a conversation. They had been there awhile, then passed me. They didn't drop me...just got in front and kept about the same speed as me.
So...suddenly I found myself in a drafting position behind the two of them (still side x side and chatting away). So I drafted. I stayed a couple of bike-lengths behind them, but I was still drafting. I didn't ask them, but they knew I was there. What should I have done? We were all matched for speed; if I passed them again, they'd simply be drafting on me. I eventually dropped them going up a hill toward a bridge, but now I feel...hmm...was I rude?
~Sherry.

[CorsairMac]

If they passed you and then maintained your speed And knew you were there - no I wouldn't say you were rude - I'd say they were really great guys!

[Susie]

A little aside on this topic: Last night I was at a birthday party and a friend told me a great story. On Saturday she was on a group ride and they were pacelining. The guy in front of her had something written in little tiny letters across the back of his shorts. She finally got close enough to read it and it said "If you're close enough to read this, take a pull!". She laughed so hard she nearly fell off her bike.

Does anyone know where I can get a pair or these shorts?

Susie

[CR400]

I think my intial reaction would have been to hammer to get away, my next thought would be to find a safe place to stop and get off my bike. That is rude to just draft off someone.

As far as the other poster, I would have stayed in their draft to, if they know you are there and not trying to get away they must not mind. I still may have asked though. I don't know I've been know to ask in a race if someone down like I am happens to want to work with me. The only time I just draft is off my team, or the peleton.

[betagirl]

Yeah I could have stopped, but I think part of me was more pissed than anything so that competitive streak in me wanted to drop him. It would have been nice if it were mile 20 instead though.

[bikerchick68]

Susie... if you find those shorts let me know! those are great...

betagirl... yeah it's rude... I wonder if he was still new enough not to know he's supposed to ask... when I was new I learned to draft but no one told me the etiquette that goes with it until I started riding with a group... the ex taught me to draft but that was it!

Like Corsair I probably would've stopped... or if I was in good form I would've called him on it and asked if he knows he should let me know so I don't stop and make him crash...

I agree that it's weird to look back and realize someone is there... especially a man you don't know who hasn't said a word...eek...

<note to self... never, ever draft maillotpois :eek: :D >

[allabouteva]

<note to self... never, ever draft maillotpois :eek: :D >


BC68, you're safe on the right hand side of her!:D

M, where you ever worried about your safety with that guy drafting you? If you were, then I think I read somewhere that if you're worried about your safety, you should stay on your bike. So what Nanci recommended I think would work v. well.

Or you could have asked him flat out, can I draft you for a while?:rolleyes: and proceed to do the same.

I hate it when in the moment you can't think of the right thing to do or say, and then 3 hours later, after you've thought about it, you know exactly what you should have done!!!

[Grog]

It is rude and dangerous. If you don't know you have someone behind you you can make sudden manoeuvers that can endanger that person and eventually yourself.

It happened to me once, I slowed down and the guy slowed down, I motioned him to pass me and he said he didn't want to. I'm about 5'4", the guy was almost a foot taller than me and a good 50 pounds heavier, he would have been great to draft from. I really wasn't impressed. I eventually stopped at the side and he stopped too, I told him to pass me because it was really rude and no I didn't want to ride with him and draft him. He acted as if he had no idea why I said it was rude, it seemed to be something he did all the time. Maybe indeed he didn't know. Anyway, he took off, I ate a bar to calm myself down, and took off again, riding slowly to avoid seeing him again...

I think it's important to voice your opposition, otherwise how can people learn?

[Quillfred]

"I think it's important to voice your opposition, otherwise how can people learn?[/QUOTE] Grog

That brings up a really good point. I am still pretty green and with the increased trail traffic I have found myself in both places recently. I wasn't sure about the proper etiquette. Now I know to ask permission. I notice that people look over their shoulders when they are (I assume) uncomfortable with my drafting. Sometimes I will slow gradually when I am being drafted because I assume someone wants to pass but they don't.

Thanks for the education. Maybe you saved me from getting slimed by a rocket :o

[KnottedYet]

Dumb question: how do you know you are drafting someone, or vice versa? Like, I had some dude ON MY BUTT for a couple miles once when I was riding the 'bent. Was he drafting off me?

What does it mean? Is it easier? Are they just cutting the wind for you?

[Lise]

Hey, beta, sorry to hear that, on top of that wind, you had a wheelsucker (sounds like something on the hull of the Starship Enterprise...:p ).

A couple of weeks ago, I passed this couple. I didn't think anything of it, figured they were well behind me, and all of a sudden, maybe 2 miles later, they pull off from right behind me, and the guy says, "Nice riding with you!" Kind of startled me. I had no idea what he was talking about, I thought maybe he was being sarcastic, but I didn't know what about! Now it makes me think maybe he/they were drafting off me. I just don't know anything about drafting, so it kind of cracks me up to think that I might have been "pulling" them. I didn't even know they were there, and didn't know enough to be annoyed. When I'm less worn out, I'll have to learn more about the drafting thing.

beat--how're the legs and knees today?

[Dianyla]

Well, I tend to get a little bit gassy on rides so... DRAFTERS BEWARE!!! :cool:

[Grog]

WARNING: LONG POST, I am procrastinating and not writing my paper right now.


Dumb question: how do you know you are drafting someone, or vice versa? Like, I had some dude ON MY BUTT for a couple miles once when I was riding the 'bent. Was he drafting off me?

What does it mean? Is it easier? Are they just cutting the wind for you?

Yes, it is definitely easier when you ride less than a bike's length behind someone else. It can be as close as 5-10 cm for maximum effect. Very useful, especially in a head wind. Doesn't make a huge difference on climbs, except perhaps when very windy. If the wind comes from the side there are different techniques (you move a bit to the side, being careful never to have your wheel overlap with the front rider's - if the wheels touch, the person in the back, and many others behind her if there's a whole paceline, goes down! :eek: ).

The person in the back is very close to the person in the front which makes it about 20-30% easier to propel herself forward. Over the long run, if two or more people do that together (like exchanging pulls every 5 minutes or 1 km or even 30 seconds depending on your strategy) they save a lot of energy. That's the reason why cyclists race as a team. Think about Lance: he does not do all the work, his teammates actually "pull" him for a fair amount of the time (although Lance specifically was known for taking more than his share of wind-time). When the time to attack comes, he's fresh. Triathletes are often unfamiliar with drafting because they are not allowed to in their races. [Speaking of triathlon: using your aerobars while drafting is a big, big no-no, and will get you rightfully kicked out of a paceline.]

Drafting comes with responsibilities. The person in the back has an easier time, but is at greater risk than the person in the front. One second of inattention can have great consequences, because as I pointed out earlier if wheels touch the person in the back goes down. Major pile-ups happen this way, and other sorts of accidents too. The person in the back's field of vision is also obstructed by... well, the person in the front's butt. So you don't see obstacles/potholes/incoming pedestrians/parked cars as well if you're in the back. So the person in the front HAS to know that there is someone in the back, so she will signal the obstacles, and make appropriate signals to indicate turns, stops, railway tracks, potholes, etc. When she decides to stand on the pedals (or to sit back down), she announces it because it causes the bike to jerk back by about 5 cm, enough to scare the person in the back if she's following closely.

Important: when drafting, you're supposed to look through the person in the front's hips, not directly at her wheel. Looking at her wheel will make you micro-correct your trajectory all the time, and in the end you'll be zigzaging all over the place (also very bad - you want to be predictable). Use your peripheral vision.

So obviously you want to draft behind someone who knows that you are there, and who knows what they are doing, and who are conscious of their responsibility.

I ALWAYS look over my shoulder every other minute, just a quick glance, to make sure I am alone. If I found someone drafting behind me, which happens at high traffic hours with lots of commuters, or when riding at popular roadie spots, I just start making the appropriate signals accordingly. If for some reason I don't feel good about that person drafting me, I will signal that I am slowing down and motion the person to pass me. It is also good manners to alternate at the front if the two riders are of similar strength, and even if they aren't (then the weaker person just takes shorter pulls).

The fine art of drafting and pacelines could take a whole book to discuss, with topics like "how to find a suitable speed" and "practicing the wheel" etc. But I have to go back to my paper. *sigh*

As a final note: Some people do not draft. Ever. They can't stand the idea of sharing responsibility for their safety with other riders. You can totally opt out of drafting if you like. Personally I think it's great to draft with people I know and trust, which includes most members of my bike club, and to teach the others how to do it properly. I find that we can go further together, and I like that. But it's a tradeoff, and I have to be conscious of the risks.

[betagirl]

I notice that people look over their shoulders when they are (I assume) uncomfortable with my drafting.

I was looking over my shoulder several times while he was back there, probably once every 20-30 seconds or so. If I know someone is back there drafting off me (and it's clear that they're there or I know them, etc.), I check less often and more to make sure they're still on versus "why are youthere?" kind of thing. I also kept checking after I dropped him and could see him back behind me. Eventually after the 2nd drop, he disappeared. I don't know if he stopped, or if the wind was too much for him on his own so he was going 2mph or what. But I was glad he was gone. I never felt afraid of him, the path was relatively crowded. Perhaps he didn't know the rules. That's certainly not a far stretch on the path.

[Lise]

Triathletes are often unfamiliar with drafting because they are not allowed to in their races....Personally I think it's great to draft with people I know and trust, which includes most members of my bike club, and to teach the others how to do it properly. I find that we can go further together, and I like that. But it's a tradeoff, and I have to be conscious of the risks.
Grog, thanks for the useful info. You're right, the only time I ride in a group is during a triathlon. So what I knew about drafting is that it was "illegal" in most triathlons. Therefore I read about it to make sure I never did it. Now it occurs to me that it would've been nice of me to offer a "pull" to beta on Sunday when she was doing her 90 mile ride. To tell the truth, *I* wouldn't have really known that I was working any harder, and it would have given her a little break. Next time we ride together (and we'll get fuji in on this, too!), I can learn something about drafting, technique, etiquette, and all. :)

[betagirl]

Shhhhhh, I did draft off of you for a few seconds here and there. Why do you think I didn't "mind" riding on the right side? You were blocking that crosswind (when it was a crosswind) a bit for me. :D

I'd be happy to teach you guys how to draft. It makes a huge difference on long rides, or when the wind is horrible.

[Lise]

Shhhhhh, I did draft off of you for a few seconds here and there. Why do you think I didn't "mind" riding on the right side? You were blocking that crosswind (when it was a crosswind) a bit for me. :D

I'd be happy to teach you guys how to draft. It makes a huge difference on long rides, or when the wind is horrible.
Oh good! Glad I was helping! :p I'm really so ignorant...innocent...whatever...about how to ride with other people that I didn't know if there was a more polite side for me to be riding on! Well, yeah, Lise, the side that blocks the wind! :rolleyes:

I can tell you that the wind-blocking effect of big buildings on side streets was a life saver in those last miles going home. I'd hit an intersection and be nearly blown backwards! I still don't know how you made it riding directly into that wind after 80+ miles. Good training for the brevet, no doubt. When you ride into the wind, anything without wind feels so easy.

Weather sucks today--I wonder if you're going out in it anyways. I slept in too long to get in laps at the pool, so I'm going to do some strength stuff here at home, then on about my day.

[bluerider]

Thanks for sharing your story! And thanks for everyone’s suggestions.

I experienced the same thing a little while ago and didn’t know how to handle the situation. It was an older guy who was riding a fancy smancy carbon bike that trailed me for 15km. I was startled initially to see him and kind of acknowledged him when I first noticed him but he didn’t smile or say hello. So I decided to put the metal to the pedal and really hammer it hoping to drop him. Of course he kept up…for 15 FREAKING KMs!!! And then on a downhill, he passed without a word except a look at me. HUH!?!?!?!?

Okay, great bud, you have a good 60 pounds on me so way to go for passing me!!! I intentionally sat up and slowed down but idiot would not pass me.

I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only who thinks it’s completely not cool!

[SadieKate]

I really don't understand why some of you don't just turn to the person and say "Would you mind not drafting? I'd really rather ride by myself." It doesn't need to be rude and you don't need to change your ride for them. You're letting them control the situation.

[betagirl]

Uh, you couldn't pay me to be out in the weather today. It was sleeting earlier.

[Lise]

I know. I'm wearing a wool turtleneck. This is why we don't put away our winter clothes until July. Sheesh. :( Hope things are warmer/drier/calmer for Saturday.

[Quillfred]

Knotted have you ever driven close enough to a semi truck on the freeway (under 2 car lengths or so) and you almost can feel yourself getting "sucked" in towards the vehicle? I think it is called slip streaming. (Note: don't try it if not as it is illegal.)

It works the same with the aerodynamics of cycling. That is why it can be dangerous if both riders aren't careful. It allows the draftee to coast.

[Geonz]

Drafting is usually pretty pointless behind a 'bent, isn't it?

I have a drafting story... I have to go find it...

[Nanci]

My bike's short enough that I can draft behind 'bents. I might be six inches taller or something. I like getting behind those big 250# guys!

Nanci

[Geonz]

It's only a cold drizzle down here in Shampoo-Banana... but I had my first commuter flat a mile out, and for the first time I FIXED A FLAT ALL BY MYSELF ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD :) :) :) :) I made sure I kept smiling and looking all composed so that nobody would be compelled to stop (I pulled off into a laundromat parking lot - it didn't start drizzling 'til I was almost done, and I was upside down with my tubes hanging out before it occurred to me that I probably could have gone *into* the laundromat anyway.)
It took about half an hour... a good 8 minutes of that spent trying to convert the pump from Presta to Schrader. Karma was with me becuase the tube was outright REFUSING to get on the wheel or into the tire... and I looked up and realized I was putting the OLD tube back in! ... I'll have it under 20 minutes in no time (and now I"m wishing I had practiced yesterday in my presentation).
And just after I got to work it started pouring...

[CorsairMac]

Congrats on your flat change Geonz!! Don't know about you but I can change a flat in no time at home but out on the trail I always seem to be all thumbs!

*Makes note to self: no drafting behind Dianyla Or MP! LOL ;) *

[Lise]

Good for you! That is quite a skill to master. And the whole Presta-Schraeder thing. There was a thread which started off with eye-rolling at the pink pump (which I own :rolleyes: ), but it does fit either valve without having to switch anything. Very loanable.

It's cold (41F), WINDY, but at least dry up here. I'm impressed that you were out in the cold drizzle. Yuk. Spring in the heartland!