OT - Freakin' out dog -Advise?

[Deanna]

Thunderstorms seem to be getting more frequent in Northern California and my dog just goes completely bonkers. I was hoping those who live in areas where T-storms have always been common might offer some advice as to how to calm down the dog.

It's hard to ride the next day when your dog kept you up all night!

[Bike Goddess]

I'd call the vet. Probably hurts the little guys ears!

[SadieKate]

Where is the dog during the storms? In the house in the bedroom with you? Outside?

[Nanci]

Puppies may pick up fear or discomfort with storms from their people, so it is important to develop a matter-of-fact attitude when dealing with a frightened youngster. Let the pup stay close, reassure him that he's fine, and coax him to play to divert his attention, but don't hover over him, stroke him incessantly, or cuddle him anxiously.

Storms that develop from rapidly falling barometric pressure can subliminally affect an animal, so the dog may demonstrate anxiety even before the storm can be heard. Again, it is important to reassure the dog that he is fine and to not exaggerate the situation.

Dogs that continue to panic when a storm approaches and dogs that develop such apprehension as adults may have to be reconditioned. Some behaviorists recommend creating an artificial storm with environmental tapes or stereo recordings. The reconditioning procedure is time-consuming but has a high success rate.

# Begin by finding the dog a safe place on a rug or a bed that he thinks of as his own. Then play with the dog in the vicinity of the rug, teach him to down-stay on the rug, and feed him treats there. Use a particularly appealing treat, not simply a dog biscuit.

# When the dog is comfortable on the rug, turn on the recording very softly, so you can barely hear it. Give him a bit of treat every few seconds unless he is showing signs of anxiety. The reward should be for a lack of fear; giving the treat when he is panting, drooling, or otherwise escalating nervousness rewards the fear itself. After a few minutes, increase the volume of the recorded storm. If the dog becomes fearful, lower the volume for another five minutes, then raise it again, ever so slightly. The idea is to create a storm that rumbles in, rages for a few minutes, then travels on.

# When the dog is relaxed on his rug during a half-hour "storm," play the recordings under different circumstances--when the dog is eating, when you are working about the house in other rooms, etc. Then, when the dog is relaxed under these circumstances, set the stereo on a timer and leave the house for a short time. Remember to set the volume low at first.

Thunderstorms are a constant presence in most area's summers, leaving little time to desensitize a dog in between episodes. If a storm happens between sessions, do what you can to calm the dog without adding to his panic. If he needs a dark room, let him have it. If he wants to lean against your leg, let him do so. If he follows you from room to room, accept his presence without overreacting. If you have successfully been using mild tranquilizers, continue treatment until reconditioning is complete.

[SadieKate]

I really like the techniques of Matthew Margolis, aka "Uncle Matty." He has a searchable training database with what sounds like a good suggestion - essentially building the dog's comfort and confidence level.

http://www.unclematty.com/training/selftrain.htm

Just saw Nancy's post. Essentially the same recommendation, only with much more detail.

[maillotpois]

Wow - what great resources! I also love the Monks of New Skete book - their whole focus is making sure the dog is secure - a lot like what Nanci's post recommended.

We're pretty lucky - our boy is PBD (pretty but dumb) and oblivious to lightning, storms, cats, whatever. (He's a stud dog for Guide Dogs for the Blind so they breed them calm and dumb - I mean compliant. :D )

Good luck Deanna. Also, what about just wearing him out with exercise before a storm?

[SadieKate]

The Monks of New Skete, absolutely! Their alpha dog technique got "us" through the rebellious times. A standard poodle who knows he is smarter than we definitely took a lot of rolling over. The dog trainer I used took one look at him in puppy class and told me to come to her open-mixed class before Izaak became bored and a troublemaker. I once stood for 5 mins in the middle of a circle of obedience trials dogs with him on his back until he relented. It worked . . . though he still makes his opinions known!:rolleyes:

[snapdragen]

And whatever you do, when the storm is raging and pupster is shaking in his boots, do not pet him and say it's alright. That reinforces that shaking and being scared is what he should do, and makes it worse. My last dog got to the point of needing a doggie downer when there were bad storms.

Chloe is totally different, she barks at thunder ("how dare you disturb me!"), and runs and plays in the rain and hail.:rolleyes:

[maillotpois]

The Monks of New Skete, absolutely! Their alpha dog technique got "us" through the rebellious times. A standard poodle who knows he is smarter than we definitely took a lot of rolling over. The dog trainer I used took one look at him in puppy class and told me to come to her open-mixed class before Izaak became bored and a troublemaker. I once stood for 5 mins in the middle of a circle of obedience trails dogs with him on his back until he relented. It worked . . . though he still makes his opinions known!:rolleyes:


I did that with my rottie when she was a puppy several times, and she really got it. Thereafter she followed me everywhere, and would stand on the hood of my car to prevent me from leaving her.

[Veronica]

I knew there was a reason I felt like I'd known you for forever MP - the Maine connection and a Rottie. We lost our girl a few years ago. Our old cat refuses to give us permission to get another dog. She's 17, so we let her have her way.

Deanna I feel sorry for your pooch. :(

V.

[maillotpois]

I knew there was a reason I felt like I'd known you for forever MP - the Maine connection and a Rottie. We lost our girl a few years ago. Our old cat refuses to give us permission to get another dog. She's 17, so we let her have her way.

Deanna I feel sorry for your pooch. :(

V.

V - Oh the Rottie connection!

My rottie, Meg, was my soulmate. I got her in law school when I was living alone (after the stabbing across the street from my apartment...). She was with me through law school, boyfriends, first jobs, marriage, kid and moving from San Diego to Marin. Em still remembers her. She died at 10, right after we started cycling in 2001. I didn't have the heart to get another rottie right away, so we got a lab. Next dog, though.

Yeah, let the cat be queen while she can. But you have to get another dog eventually!

[Deanna]

Thanks everybody for the advise. He does sleep on "his" blanket at the end of our bed, so he is inside. I'll try the conditioning you suggest Nanci. It does seem like it could be related to the barometric pressure, as he's started waking up in the night just before a big downpour. This seems to be bothering him more now that he's older, so maybe he's gotten more sensitive to these changes. When he was young he'd just groan a little and go back to sleep.

Now if the Wineter would just end this might not be such an issue!

[CorsairMac]

You could also just give him some Benedryl, it does help to calm the dogs down. I have an adopted dog that I don't know his puppyhood but he is Terrified of thunderstorms - to the point he just sits on the couch next to me and trembles. He has his own place and he will crawl under the bed if I'm in the bed but he wants to be right up against me during rain. I tried the recording bit - he figured out the difference between a recording and the real thing - probably due to the rain hitting the swamp cooler in real life vs just coming from the speakers.
Having another dog around seemed to help him - she stays close to him almost like a comforter.

[nuthatch]

We resort to Benadryl in the spring, too. Only one of our terriers is terrified - he was very near an actual lightening strike as a pup. The other one is smarter but oblivious to loud noises. She just looks at him as if to say "What????" when he's shivering.

[makbike]

If you want a medication that will help your buddy through the storms call your vet and ask about obtaining a prescription for Acepromazine. You have to give the medication 1 -2 hours prior to the events that cause the fear but it does work.

Hope this helps.

[MomOnBike]

Yeah, the Thunder Monsters were making life miserable in our house today, too. Monty has this aggression/fear thing going so every time the Thunder Monsters growled, he barked right back at them. And then, of course, I growled at the dog for barking, then the Thunder Monsters made themselves heard.... All. Day. Long. My head is pounding.

I think I'll ask the vet for drugs. Maybe the dog will get some too. :rolleyes:

[MelC]

Looks like you have gotten some good advice here. To facilitate the desensitization process you might want to think about using some of the natural products available to take the edge off. The less your dog practices the undesirable behaviour the easier it will be to train out of him. There is one called Rescue Remedy which is pretty readily available and will help calm your dog and another product called a DAP diffuser (or something like that) which emits some sort of calming scent? I haven't used either having a couple of stoic spaniels myself but I have heard good things about it. Depending on the size of the dog they have something called a calming wrap (kind of like a baby bunting blanket) which is also supposed to help - while I'm sure they make them in large sizes, I just can't imagine trussing up a lab in one of those myself :)

Mel

[Deanna]

I had forgotten about Rescue Remedy. I think I even have some around.

I have gotten lots of good suggestions, I'll have to start with not petting him to try to calm him (it didn't occur to me that it would encourage his behavior). I do have some doggie downers, but I only like to use them in extreme cases as they seem to affect his coordination. We're fortunate in that he's not a barker--he paces, pants and shakes but nothing that will disturb the neighbors.

[madisongrrl]

MelC and Nanci have given you some really great advice! (Are you guys dog trainers? If not, you should be.)

If you guys have any dog training problems please check out this website that I'm an advisor on. It is a postive reinforcement training site that gives excellent and accurate information and advice on dog training and behavior. We have some really great trainers and canine behavior consultants who are advisors there.

Here is a list of recommended reading from the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants where I'm an associate member.

http://www.iaabc.org/products_resources_dogs.htm

I would avoid the Monks of the New Skete as far as training goes. There is some pretty blatant misinformation and negative training in that book. Alpha rolling is outdated and has long since not been recommended. Dogs are fight, freeze & flight animals. It is not uncommon for people to create anxiety, fear and aggression in their dogs by using this technique. Also, the Monks have regretted publishing that information on alpha rolling and would now like to retract it...

[madisongrrl]

I tried the recording bit - he figured out the difference between a recording and the real thing - probably due to the rain hitting the swamp cooler in real life vs just coming from the speakers.


This could be, but as Nanci pointed out, dogs know a storm is coming before we do because of the change in barometric pressure. So then they behaviorially backchain to the drop in pressure and that is when they start acting anxious. Those recordings are really to be used as part of a desentization and counterconditioning plan, but won't necessarily be effective on their own.

What I would recommend is to buy a barometer so you know when the pressure starts to drop. Bring out some really great treats and start working with your dog. This is a starting point. Depending on how bad the phobia is, some people might need to talk to their vets about using drugs. But drugs need to be used in conjuntion with a behavior modification program (dezentization and counterconditioning) because they alone won't "cure" your dog (but some people are quite content with just using drugs for the dogs entire life....and that is ok too) The DAP, rescue remedy and anxiety wraps all also excellent tools to use in this situation.

[madisongrrl]

If you want a medication that will help your buddy through the storms call your vet and ask about obtaining a prescription for Acepromazine. You have to give the medication 1 -2 hours prior to the events that cause the fear but it does work.

Hope this helps.

I would also like to shed a little light on the use of Acepromazine. I'm not a vet, but I have learned quite a bit about Ace recently from my fellow members of the IAABC (some of which are board certified veterinary behaviorists.) Ace is an anti-psychotic drug, not an anti-anxiety drug. This drug relaxes and sedates a dog's muscles, but not his mind! Dogs can still feel feel fearful and anxious while taking this drug...they just can't move very well. So it is not the best choice to use with dogs who are having anxiety or fear based problems.

My dog recently had a surgery and I had a lengthly discussion with my vet to make sure she wouldn't use ace on my dog as pre-operative sedation. She said she wouldn't use it because of the reasons I listed above and also she thought it drops the heart rate too much during surgery.