Transitioning from hybrid to road/cyclocross

[Lady Hamilton]

Dear ladies!
Five years ago you were invaluable in choosing my dear Specialized Vita.
Now with kids a bit older and with more time on hands, I am looking at getting a more ambitious bicycle. What I have not yet decided is whether I want an endurance road or a cyclocross...
I am not looking at becoming this amazing racer, but I do want to start going on longer rides. Last year I have done two charity rides: 30 and 40 km each and I enjoyed it. I ride on mixed trails a lot, and I commute to work (also mixed surface, although mostly tarmac). I love my Vita, but it does struggle on some gravel paths.
I am 5 foot 1 and 100 pounds, which makes everything more difficult than I have anticipated, especially when it comes to cyclocross bikes. I have tried a unisex Cannondale CAADX 2017 in size 44 and I am not clearing the standover at all... which is surprising, because I have tried Specialized Ruby, and 44 was really tight. I have 70 cm inseam.
Is there a cyclocross bicycle for a petite girl that does not weigh a ton? Vita is around 24-25 pounds and it seems to me silly to buy something that weights the same or more.
Any input is highly appreciated.

[Lady Hamilton]

Additional info.
I definitely want dropped bars, preferably carbon, and I am hoping for 105 components.
I am basically trying to decide whether I want to buy a light road bike with or without disk breaks (Trek Domane/Silgue, Cannondale Synapse, Specialized Ruby), or maybe to find a light cyclocross or gravel bike.

[ny biker]

Hello and welcome back!

I am not the best person to give you advice, since I only have a road bike (Trek Madone) with 700x25 tires and an old hardtail mountain bike, and most of the riding I do is with the road bike on paved surfaces. But, I sometimes ride on gravel or packed dirt with the road bike and can share my observations on that. It generally handles well on those surfaces as long as I shift to a very easy gear, but sometimes I struggle to maintain control when the surface is loose or the gravel pieces are large. My Madone can't use tires wider than 25mm. So if I were riding mixed trails a lot, I would either put not-too-knobby tires on my mountain bike and use that, or I would investigate an alternative type of drop-bar bike, something that could take wider tires.

Good luck!

[north woods gal]

Can't help much on specific bikes, but can give you some info on the different types road bikes and using them for gravel. I do a lot of gravel riding.

I have had a couple outstanding cyclocross bikes and really enjoyed them for their quick handling and fast acceleration. That's built into their design. That sort of geometry, though, is rather use specific. You can use a cyclocross bike for other things besides cyclocross racing, of course, but, in my experience, that compact geometry isn't the best for long distance work. They're not very comfy for all day riding and not what the gravel bike crowd are using for gravel riding. The other issue with cyclocross bikes is the rather narrow range of gearing. Typical cyclocross races are short mileage events with not a lot of long steep climbs. If you live in hill country, you may find yourself a bit over-geared.

Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.

Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.

As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.

As for carbon versus steel versus aluminum, take your pic. Have used them all. Carbon gives a velvet smooth ride, but, be warned, you will nick and gouge that carbon if you ride gravel (have done it) and nicks and gouges in carbon can cause durability issues and frame failures. The other issue with carbon is that unless you go to the top of the line carbon model, you take a hit on the component package. Personally, I don't think the expense of carbon is justified. I'd rather have aluminum or steel with 105 than carbon with a cheaper component package. Trust me when I say, that going 105 is a no brainer. If you're going to spend the money, get 105 as a minimum. Have ridden well over thirty thousand miles on 105 without a single failure. Every time I settled for less, I ended up upgrading to 105, anyway.

[Lady Hamilton]

Thank you so much for your insightful response!

Yes, I am starting to realize, that what I actually need is not a cyclocross bike, but a gravel bike. Specialized has Diverge at several different price points and setups.

One of the shops has suggested that if I cannot find a gravel bike that fits (for instance, Diverge at the smallest WSD size of 48 might not clear the standover) they can put a more substantial tire on a Specialized Ruby with disk breaks. Basically, he said that as long as the bike can take a 32 tire with a good grip, it it much easier to fit me into it.

The problem I am having is that the shops in my city have very little selection in stock, and everything I want to even try needs to be brought in (I simply do not want the pressure of feeling that I have to buy), but going to Toronto to a much larger store is not a problem.

I put 105 and disks as a must. Five years ago I bought more bike that I really needed, but I enjoyed it and never felt the need to upgrade.

[north woods gal]

Good luck to you in your search. No matter what, make sure you get something that fits. Yeah, given your size requirements, you'll likely have to do some traveling to find a shop that has something on the floor to try. Worth the effort, though. Let us know how it goes.

[Lady Hamilton]

Last weekend I actually went to a huge bike show. But I had two kids with me and it was pretty hard to really look (we mostly went to see BMX competitions).
I have tried Trek Silque S5 2017 (huge discount, because they they decided to call WSD 2018 bikes Domane). I actually almost bought the bike. I liked it a lot. But it does not have disk breaks and I am pretty set on having them, I think.

Both Specialized and Trek have amazing new WSD gravel bikes. Trek's is a 2019 model. I am not sure, though, that standover will work. The smallest they come in is larger than their respective endurance models. And if Specialized's 48 seems ok, I don't think Trek's 49 will work at all both in standover and reach.

Ladies, I have never really looked at Giant, but was pleasantly surprised how much more competitively priced Liv bikes are in comparison to Specialized and Trek. the difference in MSRP is almost $1000 between Trek Domane with disks and Liv Avail Advaced 2. Are Liv bikes any good?

[pinsonp2]

I had the same dilemma last season. I solved with retail therapy and purchased the 2017 Trek Silque SLR 6 (https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road/silque-womens/silque-slr-6-womens/p/17197/) and a 2017 Specialized Dolce Comp EVO (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/dolce-comp-evo/p/107209). I love them both. The Silque is the smoothest road bike I have owned (it was my third carbon one). The Comp EVO is a fairly smooth ride and much faster than I expected. However, the wheels on the Specialized (same with my Amira) were slow to spin up so I upgraded the wheels. I can keep up and on a good day even lead the ride with my roadie friends. Both bikes are great and very versatile. But for the mixed riding you do, the adventure/gravel bike would be my choice mostly because I am OCD about the Silque.

Hope you can find something you love. Remember, the search for the right bike is part of the fun.
Enjoy,
Penny

[Lady Hamilton]

Thank you for sharing.
I really liked Trek Silque S5 2017, and I can basically wheel it out today $1000 off MSRP.
But like you I'm OCD about my technology and I am sort of now afraid to buy carbon for the bike that is intended to be my one and only (I am giving my Vita elite to my daughter).
I primarily wanted carbon for the weight of the bike, but after spending some time looking at specs, the difference in Domane Al vs carbon is not even half a pound.
So, aluminium is back in the picture.
I am really hoping that Specialized Diverge WSD in 48 works. I really doubt Trek Checkpoint will because of the size. I now have to find a shop that has Diverge in size 48 on the floor to try. I have found the store with Trek Checkpoint in stock and I will be going there soon.

[north woods gal]

Giant bikes are good values. Giant is actually one of the industry's big frame makers, Their frames are used by other bike companies. That allows Giant to basically sell you a bike frame at a reduced cost on their complete bikes compared to other companies. As long as the bike has the specs you want, I wouldn't have any problem with Giant. Have owned a couple.

The actual frame weight between aluminum and steel is actually very small. It's mostly a matter of ride quality between the two. Carbon is smoother, but a well-designed aluminum frame can also make for a very nice ride and at a much nicer price. Trek makes some especially nice aluminum frames. Some of the best I've ridden.

P.S. Don't forget steel. It has a classic, wonderful feel all it's own. It's my first choice for long days on a bike or any kind of riding, for that matter. It's heavier, but that brings up another point. Don't get too hung up on overall bike weight. It's where the weight is on the bike that counts. Number one on a bike is the wheels.

Wheel sets often get overlooked when checking a model's specs, but that's a mistake. They really make a difference. Those higher end wheel sets on a top of the line bike are a big part of why those bikes are so expensive. 105 spec'd bikes usually have good durable wheel sets, but they're not the lightest, though they are usually very durable and durability is important, too, especially on a gravel bike.

[Lady Hamilton]

Thank you for the info on Giant.
So, I have actually seen Specialized Diverge WSD 2018. And in my size. 49 fit great, but here is the thing. They position it as their gravel bike. Well, this gravel bike has practically road tires, the same as my Specialized Vita... So, I really don't understand their marketing. I would basically have to buy another set of tires along with the bike, because there is no way this bike could go on any rough terrain. At this point I am better off buying Specialized Ruby (which I loved a lot!) with the same specs, much lighter weight, and practically identical tires, that cost much less and buy a set of grippier tires.
Thoughts?

[Lady Hamilton]

CX bikes are problematic for smaller riders because their bottom brackets are higher off the ground than road bikes. I suggest looking at a Salsa Vaya. You may not have any in your area, but it’s worth an overnight trip, if necessary, to get the right bike. It’s basically a gravel bike, and I know of women on this forum who were 4’11” and fit the size XS (which I think they called a size 50, because
They size by top tube rather than seat tube).

There are several models to choose. I’d personally go for Tiagra over Apex, but I had bad luck with SRAM on my road bike.

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya/2018_vaya_tiagra

Also, Advocate Cycles is a company that donates profits to bike programs, and the steel is higher quality. The people who run it used to work for Salsa. The Lorax is similar to the Vaya. You can give them a call. They can put together any build you want.

http://advocatecycles.com/product/lorax/
Thank you for your suggestion on Salsa Bikes. There are dealers in the area and I will definitely check them out.

[Lady Hamilton]

Most of the trails around me are paved. Everything along the lake Ontario is practically paved. Unless you go mountain-biking. Some parts of trails are packed dirt. On my commute to work it's 90% paved bike lanes (not always ideal). I am starting to wonder if gravel bike is an overkill for where I cycle.
Salsa is a beautiful bike, Love the mint green. Is it really THAT heavy? 27 pounds (almost 13kg) is a very heavy bike for someone who barely weighs 100. Specialized Diverge is around 21 pounds in aluminum. I was hoping to stay under 20...
But I must say, that Vaya Claris in cream is swoooooon. And the geometry in 49,5 really makes it one of the tiniest adult bikes, very comparable to Specialized Ruby in reach and standover.

[Lady Hamilton]

I would really like not to leave $2000 CAD price point. I realize that a lot of the bikes I am considering are over that without a sale, but there are a few last year models that are. And I have seen deals, where carbon and 105 are quite possible under 2K, but on bikes with rim breaks.
For instance, if I look at 105 and aluminum, I can wheel out last year's Cannondale synapse for barely over $1200 CAD, and Synapse Sora for merely $900. The best deal around is 2016 Specialized Ruby with Tiagra for $1100. Trek Silque S5 2017 (carbon and 105) is a gorgeous and very comfy bike for $1800.
But, my goal is not to get the best deal on a bike. I want to get the best bike for me I can afford. A shop an hour away has cream salsa in stock. Not sure about size, but it looks like a very tiny frame (I will give them a call today).

[Lady Hamilton]

I saw that Liv yesterday. And the previous year's model too. They are very nice bikes and I am definitely not writing them off as an option (the celeste colour scheme almost makes in a Bianci).
And far as weight goes, we are urban dwellers with no garage. We have a very large and secure shed, but prefer to keep our bikes in the basement. So yes, lugging it in and out is a consideration. We are also buying a bike rack (my youngest is now keeping us with me or faster)), so we can start going away with bikes.
I guess I just have to prioritize a bit and figure out what is the best I can get in my price range. Decisions, decisions... but, it is part of the fun. Thank you for all your help and insights.

[north woods gal]

If the roughest you expect to encounter is smooth packed dirt, then you could do just fine with a standard road bike with 700x25 wheels IF conditions are good and remain that way.

It's when road and weather conditions are not good that going to a 700x35 wheel setup is a great advantage. For instance, going wider on the tires is going to make for a more comfy ride when you start to hit those long stretches of pavement riddled those annoying cross cracks. Pedal, pedal, ouch, pedal, pedal, ouch gets old. Going wider is also safer when you get sand, debris, glass and other junk left on the pavement. Going wider is absolutely better if that packed dirt turns a little muddy or slick after a rain or even when that pavement gets slick with rain. Trust me, it takes surprisingly little to trip up a narrow tire road bike and bring you down. Been there, done that. Then, too, every time I've ventured into a new area with no idea of what I'll encounter for roads, I feel MUCH more confident when I'm riding wider tires. That's why the wider tire bikes are called adventure bikes or touring bikes.

Again, going light is nice and always tempting, but the more miles I've ridden over the years, the more I value comfort and safety on the long rides.

I've been eyeing a Norco Reach steel 105 700x40 bike. Right at that $2000 US price point. It's not available, yet, but it has all the stuff I want on a long distance/gravel bike. Norco is a Canadian company, by the way. I run Norco on most of my fat bikes. Very well thought out designs. Love them.

[Lady Hamilton]

If the roughest you expect to encounter is smooth packed dirt, then you could do just fine with a standard road bike with 700x25 wheels IF conditions are good and remain that way.

It's when road and weather conditions are not good that going to a 700x35 wheel setup is a great advantage. For instance, going wider on the tires is going to make for a more comfy ride when you start to hit those long stretches of pavement riddled those annoying cross cracks. Pedal, pedal, ouch, pedal, pedal, ouch gets old. Going wider is also safer when you get sand, debris, glass and other junk left on the pavement. Going wider is absolutely better if that packed dirt turns a little muddy or slick after a rain or even when that pavement gets slick with rain. Trust me, it takes surprisingly little to trip up a narrow tire road bike and bring you down. Been there, done that. Then, too, every time I've ventured into a new area with no idea of what I'll encounter for roads, I feel MUCH more confident when I'm riding wider tires. That's why the wider tire bikes are called adventure bikes or touring bikes.

Again, going light is nice and always tempting, but the more miles I've ridden over the years, the more I value comfort and safety on the long rides.

I've been eyeing a Norco Reach steel 105 700x40 bike. Right at that $2000 US price point. It's not available, yet, but it has all the stuff I want on a long distance/gravel bike. Norco is a Canadian company, by the way. I run Norco on most of my fat bikes. Very well thought out designs. Love them.

My daughter has a Norco, it is her 3rd Norco bike.

I went to a well-stocked Specialized dealer today and had a chance too see everything that I wanted to see. I saw 2018 Ruby (base), 2018 Diverge in several shapes and forms, and a nice surprize in a form of 2017 Dolche EVO Tiagra (it was mentioned above by one of the ladies).
Ruby is a beautiful bike. There is no doubt about it. The future shock suspension works like magic. But at it's current price of $2500 for Tiagra and mechanic breaks it is rally outside of the budget. Along with Ruby sport (at $2800), which I prefer (although still mechanical breaks, but 105 grupset). The cheapest Ruby with hydrolic breaks is sitting at $3900, it is still 105 groupset, and completely out of question.
Diverge is OK, I have already tried it yesterday. At $2500 you get future shock,105 and mechanical disks, at $1900 it's Tiagra and mechanical disks. To get hydrolics you would have to shell out shocking $4100, but it is carbon and 105 set.
2017 Dolche surprized me a lot. First, the fit in size 48 was perfect. We actually had to raise the seat a bit, and at level with the handlebar the bike fit like a glove. It is aluminum and Tiagra, but it has hydrolic disks (cable -actuated, whatever that means)! And currently only $1500.To be honest with you, if it had 105 groupset, I would wheel it out today.
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-ca/specialized-dolce-evo-2017-womens-road-bike-EV302417

[north woods gal]

There are pros and cons to hydraulic and mechanical disc brakes, but they both work just fine. Have and use both on various bikes. Hydraulic gets you better stopping power, but you have to learn how to finesse them. Hit them too hard and quick and you can lose control. Easier to finesse mechanical, but the thing I like most about mechanical that they are very easy to adjust and work on. I can do most of the work on my own. Much easier to work than hydraulic. When hydraulic brakes go out, time to take my bike to the shop.

Honestly, as much as I rave about 105, the current Tiagra is actually decent, probably on a par with older vintage 105. My Warbird originally came with Tiagra and I rode it for a year and had no complaints. I upgraded to 105 mostly a confidence thing. Can't say the 105 much smoother or quicker. You will be tempted to do the same if you go Tiagra, but if and when you decide to upgrade, I'd recommend bypassing 105 and going straight to Ultegra. I promise you, you will notice a huge difference in smoothness and speed with Ultegra. It will spoil you.

[Lady Hamilton]

Unfortunately, anything with Ultegra would have to be used. Although, at the bike show I saw gorgeous Wilier road bike with Ultegra in my size 50% off for $2000.

[Crankin]

All of the bikes you mention are awesome, but I think you are right, in that you can probably get a road bike with 25 cm tires and be fine on packed dirt. I have the Silque (albeit, a carbon one) and I have no problem on smoother packed dirt. I am about half an inch taller than you and a couple of pounds heavier, and the Silque is the best fitting bike I've owned. I am on a 47 cm Silque, and I switched out the Trek bars for the Specialized short and shallow ones I've used for years. Specialized's sizing is different and I am pretty sure I would need a 44 cm Ruby. My friend, who is about 5' 2" has the 48 cm Ruby and it seems big to me.
I gave up trying to find a gravel or cyclocross bike. There's a few new ones for women that are in smaller sizes, but the geometry still comes out wrong for me. And, for a 3d bike, I am not going to spend 4K.

[Lady Hamilton]

Yes, there is not a whole lot out there. For instance, the new Checkpoint by Trek starts at size 49 frame, and has a standover of whopping 74 cm. Very few women under 5'3 would clear that. The clearance and the reach of that bike match size 53 WSD Domane!
Specialized Diverge comes in size 44 and has very tiny specs. I did not have a chance to try it, but size 48 was ok for me to ride and did not feel overly large. I would still get 44, if I were to buy it.

I think I am steering towards either buying the Dolce Evo I tried yesterday (if they give me the price it was offered at the bike show), or go with endurance road that has disks. There are a few last year's Synapses available with disks and Tiagra (and they are slightly less than Dolce Evo).

Or, otherwise, I will just wait for this year's Ruby to go on sale later this year. The future shock suspension is amazing, the bike is very beautiful, and fits very-very well. Specialized really went ahead of Trek this year, offering disks on all their bikes. MSRP on Ruby with 105 set is $430 less than comparable Domane. But, Domane has hydrolic breaks.

As far as comfort on packed dirt, I won't even have to go with 25 tires. Ruby Sport is 28, same is Cannondale Synapse. Trek Domane Disk is 32!

As far as fit goes, I found Trek Silque S5 47 and Ruby 48 fit very similarly. I wouldn't go down to 44 Ruby. I tried 48 yesterday and with saddle perfectly aligned with the bar both ruby and Dolce 48 are perfect for me. But, my Vita is also S, not XS. My legs and arms are a tad bit longer than average for 5'1.

[Crankin]

Ha, now I want to look at the Diverge.

[Lady Hamilton]

You should. It's a nice bike. What I have noticed almost immediately (I was out in the parking lot) is how much better it takes tight turns than my Vita Elite. I find Vita a very snappy bike, very nimble for a hybrid.
And also, the temptation of Diverge is that it's E5 aluminum, as opposed to A1.
Diverge 44 will fit you for sure. even 48 is a fairly small bike.

[Trek420]

I’m your height, 5’0” though heavier. That’ll be another thread. I’m still 175 lbs though since retiring the pants sizes are dropping. I was rocking size 16, now down to 12’s. The goal size is either 10 - maybe 8. It’s what tends to happen with me, weight stays the same and everything turns to muscle when I get fit. Anyway back to the bike;

My commute may be similar to yours; pavement and bike lanes with some gravel. My favorite commuters are my Salsa Vaya and the Soma Buena Vista the latter of which is a Mixte. Since you want to to cross the Salsa May be a better choice. Equipped with a rack and front and rear fenders it’s heavier than some. Test ride without and with lighter wheels.

I normally ride a 47cm, my Salsa is a 50cm. I’ve had I professionally fit and was surprised by that.

Here’s another thread for comparison and info:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=51616

[Lady Hamilton]

I’m your height, 5’0” though heavier. That’ll be another thread. I’m still 175 lbs though since retiring the pants sizes are dropping. I was rocking size 16, now down to 12’s. The goal size is either 10 - maybe 8. It’s what tends to happen with me, weight stays the same and everything turns to muscle when I get fit. Anyway back to the bike;

My commute may be similar to yours; pavement and bike lanes with some gravel. My favorite commuters are my Salsa Vaya and the Soma Buena Vista the latter of which is a Mixte. Since you want to to cross the Salsa May be a better choice. Equipped with a rack and front and rear fenders it’s heavier than some. Test ride without and with lighter wheels.

I normally ride a 47cm, my Salsa is a 50cm. I’ve had I professionally fit and was surprised by that.

Here’s another thread for comparison and info:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=51616

Thank you.

Well, sometimes height is not everything. I know women who are 5'3 with shorter legs than mine. So, I am not suprized at all that Vaya 50 fit you. I have looked up the specs, and they're are tiny at their smallest size. Specialized Ruby at 44 is also a very-very tiny bike, that is more for someone who is 5 foot and under. I haven't tried this year's one, but I remember being very cramped on last year's one.

I have tried just for the heck of it Cannondale CAADX 2016 with 105, priced very comfortably. It's unisex, size 44. Because it is cross bike, and sits very high from the ground, I did not clear the standover, but I was very comfortable in the reach. Basically, while I was on the bike, it was ok. It is a very nice bike and feels like very high quality. Actually, in terms of looks and feel I've liked it more than Diverge...

Muirenn, I see one in your signiture. Do you love yours?
Would it be comfortable on a 50-70 mile ride?

[Lady Hamilton]

The closest Advocate Cycles store is like an 9 hour drive one way. Unfortunately...
Of, course, there is always an option to send it to a mailbox storage place in Niagara Falls (has been done with many, many things with lots of items), but I would really hate to buy something without trying it first. I think that the whole fitting and adjusting experience is very important, so I would only go with something shipped if I knew exactly what I am getting.
Also, one of the Salsa's dealers around offers 0% financing over 12 or 24 months, which really helps to get the bike you want, as opposed to the one you can afford out of pocket.
I will definitely be checking it out as soon as I can, schedule permitting.

[Lady Hamilton]

But I know in the past, it seemed they would not fit someone less than 5'4" or so.
No, the bike is too high off the ground. Even in size 44, which they no longer make. Now the smallest is what they call 46.

[Lady Hamilton]

There is one model this year. With APEX 1 HDR group set. And very pricey. Smallest size is 46 and standover is very tall too, at 75 cm.

The one I have tried is men's/unisex.

[north woods gal]

There is one model this year. With APEX 1 HDR group set. And very pricey. Smallest size is 46 and standover is very tall too, at 75 cm.

The one I have tried is men's/unisex.

Are you familiar with SRAM road shifters? They are different than Shimano in the way the work. Not everyone likes them. APEX is low end in the SRAM line, quality wise. Definitely not 105 level. I rode with Apex for two years on a Salsa Fargo. I sold the Fargo because it was just too expensive to switch everything over to 105. I get along great with SRAM MTB stuff, but not their road stuff. Just me, though. Some folks love the SRAM road stuff. Not knocking it. Just saying you might want to try before you buy if you haven't ridden with the SRAM double tap road stuff.

[Crankin]

I think I would be one of those people, North Woods. I have a lot of trouble with muscle memory and mechanical/spatial things, and once I learn something, it is difficult for me to switch. Although I went from trigger shifters on a mountain bike to Ultegra with no issue, and shifting has always been intuitive to me, I had an embarrassing experiencing leading a ride a few years ago.I was sweeping the faster group and this younger woman, who was clearly very fit was lagging and as we neared the end of the ride, I realized she had no idea how to shift. She had bought the bike in the fall and this was one of her first rides the next spring. She could barely get up little rises. I only looked at her shifters and assumed they were Shimano... we stopped and I was trying to show her, when I saw the SRAM. I only remembered something about double tap, so I started playing around. I couldn't figure out if it was double tap to go up, down, or both, and having just one lever totally messed me up. Anyway, I apologized for being a bad leader and I was able to get the bike in a lower gear for her, by accident!

[Lady Hamilton]

Are you familiar with SRAM road shifters? They are different than Shimano in the way the work. Not everyone likes them. APEX is low end in the SRAM line, quality wise. Definitely not 105 level. I rode with Apex for two years on a Salsa Fargo. I sold the Fargo because it was just too expensive to switch everything over to 105. I get along great with SRAM MTB stuff, but not their road stuff. Just me, though. Some folks love the SRAM road stuff. Not knocking it. Just saying you might want to try before you buy if you haven't ridden with the SRAM double tap road stuff. to be entirely honest with you, I was not even considering this particular bike. It is too large to start with and at this price point makes very little sense to me.

I went to a very large and reputable Trek and Cannondale dealer. I had a very long conversation with a gentleman there. They have quite a few bikes in my size from previous year and can get anything 2018 very quickly. After considering everything I had to say, they offered me a couple of very doable options with disks and Tiagra. One option is last year's Cannondale Synapse Disk. It basically ticks all the boxes, except the 105, and is priced very comfortably at $1300. Brand new 2018 is the same components, but $1600. There are a few differences, 2017 is 12-30 (2018 is 11-34 ), and 2017 uses 700X25 tires (2018's tires are 700X28). It looks like endurance bikes across the Trek, Cannondale, Specialized are really moving away from 700X25 tires, especially in their Disk models.
Or, altenatively, if I am willing to go up to $2000, there is Synapse Disk 105 (mechanical disks) or new Trek Domane Disk Tiagra (hydrolics). It's the basically the choice: better breaks or better gears.
I am still, obviously, undecided...

[north woods gal]

The SRAM double tap is different from Shimano in that you do both the down shift to an easier gear and up shift to a harder gear with the small lever under the large brake lever. Push the lever in half way and you go to a higher gear. Push it in all the way to drop down in gearing. With Shimano, of course, the two shiftings are done on separate levers.

My problem was SRAM road shifters was getting that lever pushed all the way in when I needed to drop down in gear, as when tacking a big hill. Had to reach in too far for me to do it, easily. Had to loosen my grip on the hoods (and I don't have petite hands) to get it done. Very awkward. Then, if I failed to push the lever in all the way or released it before the shift was complete (the Apex was very slow), I'd end up shifting up a gear, instead of dropping down a gear. ARRGGHH! That, of course, stopped my climb in its tracks. It also made my Salsa Fargo worthless for trail riding where shifting needs to be even faster and the timing more critical. Was a total disaster for techy trail work, even though Salsa advertises the Fargo as a drop bar mountain bike. Not for this gal!

Also, I wore out the Apex shifter on the right side in one season. My bike shop took care to it for me, but even repaired, they couldn't keep it shifting, right. Lots of trips back to the shop. This same shop now refuses to stock any bikes with Apex because other customers were having the same problems. When they do stock SRAM road group, now, their minimum is Rival.

I found down shifting on the Shimano by pushing the brake lever in to be much easier and much faster and much more comfortable, all with my hands firmly on the hoods. I have used 105 for some moderately techy trail work and while not as good as MTB trigger shifters, of course, it does work.

Again, I love SRAM MTB shifters - use them on several bikes - but SRAM road shifting doesn't work for me. Does work for other folks, just not for me. Hope I haven't offended any SRAM road fans. You'll have to try it and decide for yourself. You may like it, you may not. Not putting it down. I just couldn't manage it, well. Bad choice for me.

If anyone does go SRAM road, though, I'd highly recommend stepping up to Rival.

[Lady Hamilton]

I thought the Synapse would be a good bike for your purposes. Unless you want something that is a little more multi-surface than that. I love Cannondale. I had a 2008 Synapse, but the design was drastically different back then. It was a traditional diamond frameset, and did not have the high stack you'd expect to find. The new design and carbon lay-ups make for sense. That bike had too much flex, also. (I have a bigger bike, and larger frame sets tend to flex more. Plus, I'm taller, and probably prefer a stiffer bike just because I have more mass. I need the power transfer. Small frame sets are inherently stiff, yet smaller riders tend to look for a little more flex for shock absorption. That is why the Ruby and Silque are so nice. They have added flex in the suspension systems. Though I've no idea if the Synapse has that now).
It seems that the new trend for many companies is to turn their endurance bikes into a multi-purpose machine. Effectively, my original idea of purchasing a road bike and throwing 700×30 tires has already been successfully adopted for 2018 by the companies themselves. )
Interestingly, Cannondale's version is the most affordable with similar specs. $500 more affordable.

[Crankin]

Lady Hamilton, I would always go with the extra gearing over the brakes. If you are not going to be riding in the rain all of the time or you will mostly be on pavement, I am not sure you would need discs. Just my personal preference. I have had discs only on a mountain bike and I found them exceedingly difficult to get used to and forget about it if you crash or the brakes even just need work; even my mechanically inclined husband who works on all of our bikes needed to bring the discs to a shop for work.
I have 11-32 on my Silque and 11-34 on my Guru. If you can get a lower gear, go for it, especially if you live in a hilly area. When I teach a basic bike workshop, the mantra is "the most important gear on your bike is the lowest one." It does not mean you are tough to climb in a hard gear where you have to mash the pedals.
North Woods, now I know how I got that woman's bike in a lower gear! Thanks for the primer. I would always be misshifting.

[north woods gal]

I agree on the gearing. The gearing a lot of manufacturers spec on their road bikes is too high for this old gal and I'm no beginner. Sometimes I see bikes with gear specs so high that it makes me wonder what the manufacturer was thinking. My road riding is in rolling hill country. None of the hills are nasty steep, but they come one after another with only a few flat spots in between. At the end of a long ride, it takes its toll. Flat this country is not. From experience, an 11-32 on the rear with a 50/34 up from is my cut off point on a roadie. Anything higher is a no go. Much prefer an 11-34 on the rear and these are becoming more common and available with the new 11 speed stuff.

[Lady Hamilton]

Lady Hamilton, I would always go with the extra gearing over the brakes. If you are not going to be riding in the rain all of the time or you will mostly be on pavement, I am not sure you would need discs. Just my personal preference. I have had discs only on a mountain bike and I found them exceedingly difficult to get used to and forget about it if you crash or the brakes even just need work; even my mechanically inclined husband who works on all of our bikes needed to bring the discs to a shop for work.
I have 11-32 on my Silque and 11-34 on my Guru. If you can get a lower gear, go for it, especially if you live in a hilly area. When I teach a basic bike workshop, the mantra is "the most important gear on your bike is the lowest one." It does not mean you are tough to climb in a hard gear where you have to mash the pedals.
North Woods, now I know how I got that woman's bike in a lower gear! Thanks for the primer. I would always be misshifting.
We have some hills, and some very high hills (included in many charity rides). My commute is flat.
I have also realized that 11-34 is more important than having hydrolics.

I have lots of learning to do.
Why do you think Synapse on Tiagra has 11-34 and Synapse on 105 has 11-32. Is it because it is a newer Tiagra and older 105?
Or is it a mistake in specs?
I am looking at brand new 2018 bikes on the official Cannondale website?

[north woods gal]

I've been looking at 11 speed Shimano cassettes in 11-34 and for some reason, you can get 11-34 in Tiagra or Ultegra, right now, but nothing, so far, listed for 105. You can mix and match Shimano 11 speed stuff, so you could use Tiagra or, if you have the money, Ultegra.

[Lady Hamilton]

I've been looking at 11 speed Shimano cassettes in 11-34 and for some reason, you can get 11-34 in Tiagra or Ultegra, right now, but nothing, so far, listed for 105. You can mix and match Shimano 11 speed stuff, so you could use Tiagra or, if you have the money, Ultegra.
Just checked. Hopefully, someone else will find this information useful.
Trek used 11-32 on both Tiagra and 105 Domane.
Specialized Ruby (base with Tiagra) uses 11-34, just like Cannondale Synapse. But Specialized Ruby Sport 105 uses 11-32, same for 105 based Dolce.

It certainly is interesting choice to use 11-34 on a cheaper bike, but I wonder if that is done deliberately.

So, the question is, is 11-34 Tiagra a better choice than 105 based machine with 11-32?

This starts to make Cannondale Synapse disk Tiagra a very lucrative option. The gentleman at the store yesterday asked me a ton of questions and he was not convinced I even need 105... He said that the newest Tiagra is plenty of gears for me. But I could definitely use the extra cogs. I have 11-32 on my 5 year-old Vita.

This is one of the hills featured in many rides. http://www.mapmyride.com/ca/hamilton-ontario/sydenham-hill-climb-route-33307440

[north woods gal]

As I mentioned before, the new Tiagra is probably very comparable to the old 105. I rode the new Tiagra for a year and, honestly, couldn't tell any difference between it and 105. I very much doubt you'd notice a difference on a cassette. Might weigh a touch more than 105, but it will make very little difference, otherwise. You'd have to ride a lot of miles to wear out any Shimano cassette. No one beats Shimano when it comes to making gears. The industry leaders. They make gears for all kinds of equipment, not just bicycles.

[Crankin]

Yup, you can always upgrade. I put Di2 shifting on my bike last summer, after my cable broke (2nd time) when I was leading a ride. I had been adamant about not needing it when I bought the bike 3 years ago. Now I don't know why I was so resistant!

[north woods gal]

Sheila, we steel bike lovers aren't the type to care much about overall bike weight. :) On the plus and fat bikes I ride, the only place I make a conscious effort to reduce weight is in the wheels/rims/tires. That's where I notice a difference.

Bad news on the Norco Search in steel I was considering. Here it is spring and the new 2018 version on their website is already sold out!!! If I want one, I will have to wait for the release of their 2019 version, later in the year. Just my luck. I find the bike I want and it's not available. The search for a 700x40 gravel bike continues.

[Lady Hamilton]

I will appreciate any info! Thank, Muirenn!

The state our trails are in right now you would need a bulldozer....

[Lady Hamilton]

Bad news on the Norco Search in steel I was considering. Here it is spring and the new 2018 version on their website is already sold out!!! If I want one, I will have to wait for the release of their 2019 version, later in the year. Just my luck. I find the bike I want and it's not available. The search for a 700x40 gravel bike continues.
How unfortunate (. Is there no dealers in the area, who might have one in stock on premises?

[Lady Hamilton]

Yes, of course.
Originally, carbon was all I was considering (in my head I already have a very good aluminum bike, so next bike should be an upgrade in every respect).
I am starting to think that I will spend this season enjoying the bike I have with some upgrades (get a grippier tire, I can go up to 30, possibly even 32 on my Vita with rim breaks) and wait for late summer sales. Specialized goes on sale in July, I believe.
In October there is always Fall Bike Blowout Sale. If you go prepared (know exactly what you want) you can get a smoking deal on a bike. I have seen those deals already during the Spring Show (as much as 50% off on last year's models) and roughly 20% off pretty much guaranteed, depending on a model. Of course, depending on LBS and brand (rules around MSRP, etc) it is possible to get about 15% off outside of the bike show.

[north woods gal]

How unfortunate (. Is there no dealers in the area, who might have one in stock on premises?

No, not a one left, anywhere with any shop. My bike guy called Norco, direct. Oh, well. Not like I am bike poor, anyway. :)

[Lady Hamilton]

So, this weekend I have seen and ridden Ruby Elite Disk and base Diverge (without future shock). I am stuck, as I have not yet seen 2018 Cannondale Synapse in any modification. None of the stores around have them on display and I am very interested in this bike, as they are the most affordable with the same components. For instance, Synapse disk Tiagra is $500 cheaper than comparable Domane ALR 4 and $300 cheaper than Diverge. For the price of Domane with Tiagra you get Synapse with 105. There is a $500 difference between Cannondale 105 and similarly built Diverge.
I am at loss to understand the price policy and why Cannondale bikes are so much cheaper.

[Lady Hamilton]

You could call around and see if anyone knows someone who would let you try someone's bike. (I saved a fortune, Surly is not custom :)).

Just a thought. The problem is, I can try a Domane no problem, even in the right size, but not Cannondale. I went to a women's ride last weekend, and nobody has a Cannondale (

I might have to do what I don't like doing. Have one of the larger shops bring one in...But in all honesty, I don't know why I wouldn't buy one if I like the ride and it fits well. No matter whichever way you look, both Tiagra and 105 Synapses are at least $300 cheaper than identical Trek and Specialized bikes.

Trek doesn't even bother putting 105 on aluminum Domane. You have to go carbon and $1300 over Synapse to get 105 group set. Yes, the bike will be carbon...

[Lady Hamilton]

The silver women's Synapse in carbon is beautiful. I suppose you are looking at that one since it's 105? It looks a lot like my CAADX, except it is raw aluminum silver, and it has the old cantilever brakes instead of disc! Another thing about the Synapse. It has thru axels instead of quick release, which is what mountain bikes typically have these days. (Better technology than quick release, and a safer design. You do need an allen key to remove the wheel, but it really isn't difficult. My CAADX has the 'old style' quick release. :)

The Synapse is a well-designed bike. A lot more advanced than the others you were looking at in many ways.
I am actually looking at the alloy one, white. Unfortunately, they decided not to put disk breaks on the 105 carbon (the only model in the line up without disk breaks)... And Ultegra is way outside of budget...

[north woods gal]

I'd take the current Tiagra in a heartbeat over Apex for quality and performance. Have owned both. Apex is bottom of the line in SRAM. Gave me nothing but headaches.

A top end aluminum frame is not significantly heavier than an entry-level carbon frame - if at all - and if you pair up a good aluminum frame with a carbon fork, it makes for a very nice ride. Great way to get a better component group. The only thing you'll notice with the aluminum frame versus carbon at this level is a different ride feel.

[MollyJ]

This is a fascinating thread but since I am just getting in to gravel riding, feel like I need a primer. Is there a good primer resource for gravel riding?

[north woods gal]

Hi Molly. See my response to your post on riding gravel.

There are some online forums devoted to gravel riding, but for me, riding gravel has been a learn as I go experience. Honestly, since you live in an area where gravel riding is popular, I'd head to a good local bike shop and visit with them about what you'll need for riding the gravel roads in your area. They could probably hook you up on some group rides on gravel, too. That would be a great way to learn to ride gravel. Me, I've been a solo rider all my life, but mostly that's been out of necessity. Up here, I'm often riding on very remote roads with little traffic. I do love riding these roads, but riding by myself out in the middle of nowhere, so to speak, still makes me a bit nervous. I'd recommend riding in a group to get started, if that's possible in your situation. Even having one riding pal is safer than riding, alone. More fun, too.

[Trek420]

This is a fascinating thread but since I am just getting in to gravel riding, feel like I need a primer. Is there a good primer resource for gravel riding?

My old commute included a short stint on gravel. I found as long as your basic bike handling skills are there it was pretty easy to handle. Just take it slow. You will learn as you go what conditions can cause a spin out.

One time I was testing out the route before using it as the actual commute. I was on my road bike, skinny tires and all that. We passed a group riding a mix of gravel and some on hard tail mountain bikes. Oh the confusion this caused. As we passed I could hear:

“OMG, she’s on a road bike!”

“OMG, are those tires 22?”

“OMG. She should at least get a MTB ...”

You really can ride just about anything on gravel. My road bike is fancy schmancy and I don’t want gravel pitts on the precious paint job. Fat tires are what you want on gravel. Yes, with skinnier tires I felt like it digs right into the gravel and just stops. So it’s not the best. But not impossible either. When I got to commuting for reals I took either the Salsa or Soma depending on mood.

You’ll get a feel for feathering through some bits and looking ahead for the firmer ground.

[MollyJ]

OUr LBS is awesome. But I rarely do group rides. It's hard enough to get me on a bike and on the road. Coordinating with others would be "too much". And I'm not, by any stretch, fast. So I'd just feel bad if they all passed me up and pissed if they were slower than me. (A little bit of a cat, I am.) But i do know so local cyclists. And I've done some fair longer rides in the area and can imagine places I'd like to try. Frankly, it surprises me that gravel bikes have drop handlebars. But in Kansas, if you are going to leave town, dropped handle bars have so many advantages. So if I get to that point, I'll wrap my mind around it.

[MollyJ]

Muirenn, i do have cantilever brakes. When there is the least little moisture, they make a fierce squeaking noise when I brake. (Not exactly a confidence builder.) So much to learn.

[north woods gal]

Molly, when you get squeaking with cantilever brakes, it's often a matter of getting the pad angles adjusted, correctly. Either that and the pads build up a glaze. I usually clean off the pads a bit with an abrasive or good cleaner when they get too much glaze. That helps. You should replace those pads on a regular basis, anyway.

On disc brakes, you can also get some really awful screeching. That's also a glaze building up on the rotors. Easy fix, though. I take some light sandpaper and rub the rotors, then make sure to wash off any sand that gets left.

Also, very much agree with Trek420 about being able to ride any kind of bike anywhere, at least to some extent. Your present bike may not be the best choice for a given riding situation, but your riding skills can overcome a lot of equipment shortcomings. Mostly, though, I'm a big believer on deciding what works for you and not what someone else says.

[MollyJ]

North Woods Gal and Trek 420, my husband has a friend that used to road race as an amateur and I saw him up on the dike--fairly smooth hard pack with some gravel--and I thought he was being daring but didn't doubt he could pull it off because of the bike handling skills. When I first got my Madone, it was a big brave step to ride in a charity ride. I had this mental picture of me causing a multi-bike spill. But...it didn't happen. I also would like to ride the Katy Trail in Missouri. I think gravel tires would handle it perfectly. There would be some climbing but not much--since it's an old train bed.

[north woods gal]

Those old rail bed trails are called rails-to-trails and are great to ride, because they're relatively straight and the grades on the hills are very gradual. Great way to get off the pavement and get started on gravel riding. Go for it.

[Crankin]

I have seen the Katy trail and you would definitely need a hybrid with wider tires or a mountain bike. Maybe a gravel bike, but what I saw was very sandy. It looked flat, but the section I saw was in an extremely hilly area, in fact the Tour of Missouri pros had just ridden through here, the day before. That made me think not all of the trail is flat!

[MollyJ]

To my disappointment I have been on the Katy Trail twice but it's always been for short walks. And I think what I remember is some sand, though you could probably choose a route or path. I remember thinking some of it was more gravelly than I typically chose to do on my hybrid. Did you ride on it Crankin? The scoop on it is that it has periodic Bed and Breakfasts and wineries on the route.

NW, the Katy Trail would take a little planning being in the next state ovder but it might be a nice summer weekend project.

[MollyJ]

Muirenn, looks like a beautiful bike...I went to the manufacturer's page. So do you have knobby mountain bike tires on it or something else. Sometimes answering the question, "What kind of cycling do I picture myself doing?" is the hardest. In the end, you will do what your bike will let you do.

[north woods gal]

Wider spaced knobs are better for mud and wet sand or, for that matter, even snow. That is correct. With closely spaced knobs, the tires quickly clog up with mud and wet sand and lose their "bite". MTB tires tend to be very specialized in tread design and need to be chosen, carefully, for the types of trails you ride. The wrong kind of tread for your trail can greatly reduce performance and actually be dangerous. For instance, those big tall aggressive knobs may be just the thing for riding dirt, because the tire sinks into the dirt and the knobs can do their thing and bite. Not a good choice for riding on rock, though, or even hardpack, because then you're riding on top of the knobs and you actually lose tire surface area in contact with the trail and that can greatly reduce traction.

To make things even more complicated, it's also very much a matter of the tire compound used in the tire. Those old heavy duty nylon MTB tires we used to use were almost impossible to wear out, but they had so little give to them that they were harsh to ride and were notorious for lacking traction at times. Believe me, it's not just tread design, but also the compounds used. My riding on icy hard pack snow really shows the importance of this. Even with the same basic tread design on my different fat bikes, some tires offer much better traction than others on the slick stuff, the difference being that some tire compounds are stickier than others.

My trails are all dirt, now that I no longer allow myself to climb boulders. What works best for me are XC MTB race tires as long as the trail is dry. Plenty of traction, but, more importantly for my single speeds, great rolling speed. They don't call them XC race tires for nothing. Huge difference between riding these and an aggressive dirt tire. When things go wet and mushy, I just switch to one of the fat bikes and wait till the trail dries before riding the other bikes. These same XC race tires also do a great job on pavement and are ideal for gravel.

My 700c road bike single speed is my Nature Boy and it rides on 700x38 Gravel Kings. I lose some rolling speed, but not too much. Great tire, though, for wet pavement. Lots of traction, there.

[Crankin]

Molly, I did not ride on the Katy Trail; we were visiting my brother in law, who lives near there. We went to some of the wineries, which were a long the trail.
It looked nice, but I think I'd want wide tires.

[north woods gal]

I like Surly bikes, too. They're all steel bikes made extra tough, so always a good value. Chose carefully, though, according to your intended use. If you plan to ride mostly pavement and gravel for day rides, I'd stay with their lighter built models. I had an ECR and traded it off. Great bike, but not a good match for my riding. I'm a single day, out and back rider, on our paved and gravel roads. The ECR is a heavy built bike, designed to carry a full load of camping gear and a week's worth of supplies to remote places. Without a load, it's very stiff riding bike and way, way heavier than I need, and so a real tank to pedal. I'm not a weight weenie, but the bike was as heavy as some of my fat bikes. Make no mistake, a heavy bike and, especially, bigger heavier tires, are more work to pedal. I've pedaled a heavy fat bike on 30 miles on pavement, mostly to see what it was like. No problem for the bike, but I've done 60 mile trips on a road bike that didn't fatigue me as much.

Loved the idea of a bike that can carry me into the wilderness and back with everything but the kitchen sink and I still love the idea, but, hey, I'm just riding around the local roads, never more than 20 miles or so from home, carrying nothing more than the basics. My road riding is 90% pavement and the rest gravel, most of which can be handled with a drop bar 700x35 gravel bike. My current single speeds that I use for road rides all weigh 23 pounds and the widest tire is a standard 2.25" MTB tire, setup tubeless. Riding those really makes it hard to drag out a fat bike or even an ECR weighing a full 10 pounds more. Again, I'm not a fanatic on weight, but if you plan to ride out there on pavement or gravel and put in a lot of miles, think about how much bike you want to pedal. It's important.

[MollyJ]

Muirenn, I thought this was "art photography" until I opened it up. But what you're saying is the raised areas aren't as deep as some.

[MollyJ]

NWG, Both of my bikes are so light that I can lift them easily (at age 62) into the bed of my truck. I AM wary of weight. A slow, heavy bike made me not like cycling as much. I noticed a big difference with my lighter bikes.

Since bikes are an investment, I think the point is to take your time and know why you want it. (Give yourself time to get past "new bike fever".)

[MollyJ]

Crankin, re: the Katy Trail. I felt the same way versus my hybrid which has wider tires but not at all textured. There is a little texture at the edges of the tire, but the center portion is really smooth.

[MollyJ]

Muirenn, went to the Maxxis page for tires. Lots of information--overwhelming! But the graphic on surfaces versus tires was somewhat clarifying.

[north woods gal]

NWG, Both of my bikes are so light that I can lift them easily (at age 62) into the bed of my truck. I AM wary of weight. A slow, heavy bike made me not like cycling as much. I noticed a big difference with my lighter bikes.

Since bikes are an investment, I think the point is to take your time and know why you want it. (Give yourself time to get past "new bike fever".)

I'm right there with you. I'm 68 and 1/2, now, so, yeah, I pay attention to how a bike matches up into how I plan to ride it. I haven't always done a good job of that, but have learned a lot from my mistakes and that's a good thing.

Speaking of weight, one thing I have learned over the years on all bikes is the importance of good wheels, as in hubs, rims and the right tires. That's where the weight and performance count the most. A set of custom wheels can cost more than a lot of bikes, but until you've actually ridden a bike with such wheels, you'll never fully appreciate what a top notch set of wheels can do for the way a bike rides. I have such a set on one of my single speeds and every time I ride it I'm still amazed at how effortlessly it rolls compared to my other similar bikes with standard factory wheels. Bought the bike used. It was a full custom build by the previous owner and I got it for half of what he had in it. Could never have afforded such a bike, otherwise.

[north woods gal]

Plus one on the Thompson seat posts. Have them on most of my bikes. Worth every penny.

[MollyJ]

Well, clearly, everyone here views the bike as a canvas and you customize it to notch it up and turn it into a work of art. I'm really pretty cheap and my Madone is not, by any means, top of the line but it is the nicest bike I've ever owned and I love it. But that said, I've pretty much stuck with the original equipment. But that seat...I'd sell it in a minute if I felt comfortable that I was leaping towards improvement.

Does the Thompson seat post mostly add reduced weight or does it improve ride?

[MollyJ]

Muirenn, my experience with complex ideas like this is that you just get in and start swimming. And at first a lot of it just washes over me. But then it starts to make sense and increasingly connect with what I experience. And there is no where to go in my town that I know of to have these kind of conversations. This is really a unique place!

So just be patient with my newbiness!

But I enjoy the talk! I am not sure I would ever have the courage or the expertise to buy a frame and trick it out. OR to buy used and modify it to fit. But who knows where we go, right?

[north woods gal]

Well, clearly, everyone here views the bike as a canvas and you customize it to notch it up and turn it into a work of art. I'm really pretty cheap and my Madone is not, by any means, top of the line but it is the nicest bike I've ever owned and I love it. But that said, I've pretty much stuck with the original equipment. But that seat...I'd sell it in a minute if I felt comfortable that I was leaping towards improvement.

Does the Thompson seat post mostly add reduced weight or does it improve ride?

The Thompson CAN reduce weight, depending on what you have, now. Even if it doesn't, I love the way it adjusts the angle of the seat, plus the quality is top notch. Won't make up for a poorly fitting seat, though.

As for your Madone, I had a WSD Madone and it really is a GREAT bike. Mine was the basic 105 model, but it remains the ONLY new bike I've ever bought that needed no mods to fit me. I reluctantly sold it. Too many years and too many thousands of miles on a drop bar road bike was causing repetitive stress injuries for me, mostly pinched nerves in my back. That, and switching back and forth between my flat bar MTBs and drop bar road bikes was just too hard on my body, so I now ride only flat bar bikes, road or trails. Never have to feel under-biked with any Madone, though. Class bike all the way.

As for the seat, that is a whole topic until itself. Very personal thing. We all go though it, trying to find what works best for us. Lots of trail and error. Took me a long time to figure out that I have very wide sit bones and therefore need a wider than average seat. Going too narrow on the seat for all those years may have contributed to my pinched nerve thing on the road bikes. My guy at the bike shop tells me this is not at all uncommon for us gals and he knows other gals who developed the same problems. Poper support on a seat is very important, but going too wide can also cause problems. The seat is less of an issue for me on my MTB riding, because a lot of my riding on the trails is with weight up off the seat or just standing on the pedals. Out on the pavement, though, you're on that saddle just about full time, so very important.

[deckrdshaw]

Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.

[deckrdshaw]

[QUOTE=deckrdshaw;867689]Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get Deatils about Azerbaijan visa for Indain (https://visa-az.com/azerbaijan-visa-for-indians) Passport Holder Requirement and Fee.

[deckrdshaw]

Endurance road bikes are what I would recommend for long distance work and they'll also do a decent job on gravel as long as they'll take wider tires, up around 35mm wide or more (though most won't). Endurance road bikes have a geometry designed with comfort in mind for all day riding. They'll take much of the sting out of riding pavement, plus, you'll have a lot more choices in gearing.
Drop bar gravel bikes are a great choice as a do it all road bike. They're essentially endurance bikes setup for wider tires. Tire width is important for gravel riding. Don't let those wider tires fool you into thinking they're slow. My Salsa Warbird gravel bike with its 700x35 tires was every bit as fast as my Trek carbon Domane endurance road bike with its 700x25 tires on the pavement, not to mention that the Warbird also gave me the option of riding gravel and took a lot of the bite out of rough pavement. Riding gravel with a 700x25 bike is a big no-no. Not recommended.
As to brakes, go disc all the way. The old external rim brakes work for fair weather use, but in wet weather or situations where you need some real braking power, you need discs. Absolute must for gravel work. Besides, disc brakes are now standard on nearly all bikes, these days. If you go with eternal rim brakes, your bike model choices will be severely limited.

---------------------------------------------------------------
US Travelers planning to visit Baku can check mandatory information required for applying Azerbijan Visa for US citizens (https://visa-az.com/azerbaijan-visa-americans/) here.