Shoulder....Venting

[Catrin]

It's becoming difficult to be positive about all of this, but it IS true that I do pretty well for an apparently falling-apart 56 year old. X-rays for my bad shoulder today that will likely be followed up with an MRI. As bad as my neck is, the shoulder seems worse and now they think something is torn in it. I am NOT going to allow surgery - they want to operate on so many parts of my body that where would we honestly start? It will be, however, good to know what is actually wrong with the shoulder, it's been a problem for a very long time. At least I will know if my chosen activity will be contraindicated or not.

So now I'm down to only walking/hiking - at least until my current shoulder flare settles down. Well, at least I CAN walk/hike/trek & hopefully the new orthotics that come on Sept 9 will help with that. I'm afraid to mention my hips to any of my medical folks, those are about the only major joints left that doesn't have a significant amount of arthritis - or at least hasn't been diagnosed with it.

Sigh - it's becoming challenging not to break out that huge container of Graeter's Black Raspberry Chocolate Chip ice cream...but I think some peppermint tea with cacoa is something I'm far less likely to overdo - and I've already had my allowed 2 ounce serving.

[Skierchickie2]

Wow - that's tough! :(. I have no valuable advice, other than to try to enjoy your hiking that much more, and embrace nature as much as possible.

And I find I'm much better off if I keep the ice cream out of the house (if only I could convince DH of that).

[Crankin]

I really empathize with your frustration, Catrin. It seems like hiking would be OK, but who am I to say? At least it will be nice to know what if anything is wrong.

[Catrin]

I actually do much better with ice cream if I always have GOOD stuff in the freezer. It's much easier to limit myself to a couple of small servings a week (no more than 2 ounces at a time) and I'm not tempted to cheat when I know it's there. Unsure why it works, but it does.

The problem is that I've LOTS of arthritis everywhere, including my neck, feet, and knees (and probably hips). I've had both major foot surgery (to repair tendon tears and a congenital condition), and a very bad fall last year led to knee surgery. Then there is the jacked neck and mountain bike injury that made it much worse and took me off the bike completely. Bit by bit all of my favorite physical activities keep having to go away...but hopefully I only need to take a break from my kettlebells - can't do anything else weight related!

[BikeDutchess]

Having been diagnosed with a SLAP tear (labral tear in the shoulder) myself, I can empathize. My kids keep trying to convince me to have surgery but I just don't know if I want to go through that, or just learn to live with the limitations. Hang in there, Catrin.

[rebeccaC]

gee thanks….now I have to get some salt&straw chocolate peppermint crunch ice cream on the way home……;)

Sometimes there are clouds in the sky obscuring the sun. Wishing more peaceful moments of being under a spring like sun and less bothersome clouds for you!!!! Btw I recently had a meeting with some wonderful compassionate people at a beautiful stone century+ old Episcopal Church....I left with a sunny peaceful mind :)….the wonders of working towards compassion for others to benefit them and ourselves.

[salsabike]

Catrin, I'd go for a walk with you if I could. <3, kiddo.

[emily_in_nc]

Bummer, Catrin. :( I know how you love your kettlebells. I hope this is only a temporary setback and not a permanent limitation.

[Pax]

Sorry to hear, Catrin, what the hell is it with our bodies, they seemed to work okay for a few decades then BOOM. Very challenging and annoying.

I keep looking for whatever parts of things I can still do, then do those. For instance, as a former hard core weight lifter (can't do that any more) I figured out I can still do hammer curls, modified bench press, and some rowing... so I do those little bits. They utterly pale in comparison to what I used to do, but it's something.

[Sky King]

Just curious, have you ever thought of switching to yoga? I am giving it serious consideration, that or pilates. My masseuse was working on my shoulder and neck yesterday and she sure knows how to find that spot in my neck that I actually feel in my shoulder.
It's becoming difficult to be positive about all of this, but it IS true that I do pretty well for an apparently falling-apart 56 year old. X-rays for my bad shoulder today that will likely be followed up with an MRI. As bad as my neck is, the shoulder seems worse and now they think something is torn in it. I am NOT going to allow surgery - they want to operate on so many parts of my body that where would we honestly start? It will be, however, good to know what is actually wrong with the shoulder, it's been a problem for a very long time. At least I will know if my chosen activity will be contraindicated or not.

So now I'm down to only walking/hiking - at least until my current shoulder flare settles down. Well, at least I CAN walk/hike/trek & hopefully the new orthotics that come on Sept 9 will help with that. I'm afraid to mention my hips to any of my medical folks, those are about the only major joints left that doesn't have a significant amount of arthritis - or at least hasn't been diagnosed with it.

Sigh - it's becoming challenging not to break out that huge container of Graeter's Black Raspberry Chocolate Chip ice cream...but I think some peppermint tea with cacoa is something I'm far less likely to overdo - and I've already had my allowed 2 ounce serving.

[Aromig]

I'm sorry. It sucks that your issues are really taking away things that bring you joy.

I have a skydiving friend that has had multiple shoulder reconstructions and more hardware than you can imagine (the latest involved completely changing the joint -- the ball is at the shoulder and the socket is the arm bone) and it's finally worked for her. She was also an avid hiker and hiked often even when she had no arm mobility at all. She did have trouble keeping her balance (and was worried about falling on that arm) on rough trails, but she kept hiking so hopefully you can too.

[Catrin]

Interesting suggestion Murienn! Never thought about that kind of riding....

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[Catrin]

Sky King - sadly Yoga has many positions that I simply cannot do. Tai Chi, however sounds like a option IF I could find a local place that wasn't in the middle of my workday.

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[Catrin]

We finally did an x-ray and MRI of THAT shoulder. X-ray was almost perfect, somehow my arthritis has almost missed that one. Damn. I had hoped that was what was going on but it wasn't. Onto the MRI. They read that thing fast! I had the MRI at 7:15 this morning and my Chiropractor called me at 3:00 with the results. As it turns out I've a torn rotator cuff, the problem child is the supraspinatus, and it is retracted. From my reading I know that the amount of retraction greatly impacts the possible outcome of any repair.

Not that I'm considering a repair at this time. I've been living with this for a long time, and if I allow them to commit surgery it doesn't mean that I won't wind up with improved ROM. So, while it may have to eventually happen, the shoulder is pretty functional and will have to get much worse before I will consider it. So what if I can't do overhead pressing. My chiro is great at keeping it calmed down, and all of my other broken bits, with various active release techniques.

I have to laugh at this to keep from crying. I've so many things that one doctor or another have mentioned different surgical options just this year (not counting the knee surgery last summer), where would I possibly begin if I were to actually decide to do any of it ? So laugh about it, focus on stretching, doing what I can, and pray my body doesn't actually fall apart any time soon. Thankfully I can still swing kettlebells (2-handed only) and hike. I'm a lot better off than many - even if I can't walk without an odd gait these days.

[Crankin]

Well, now you know what exactly is going on. Your attitude is cautious, but correct. Why rush into surgery that may or may not improve the quality of your life? Hiking and some kettlebell work is not "nothing." You are doing more than 80% or more adults in the US.
I just saw a thing on Tai Chi tonight, on a local PM Magazine type show. It does look like a perfect complement for anyone, especially as we age. Is there perhaps a community class that is after work or on a weekend? The show I saw emphasized how Tai Chi works on flexibility and balance and doing the movements fast is a lot harder than most think.
Many years ago (1987?) my mom was taking my younger son for a walk by the lake near where she lived in San Diego. There was a group of older men practicing Tai Chi there and my son ran up to one of the men and grabbed onto his leg as he was doing a one leg balance thing, almost causing the man to fall! I am glad I was not there to see this, but I guess the guy had good balance from his daily practice...

[Catrin]

Good point Crankin! It is a bit frustrating that I've multiple body parts that some would consider needing surgery, but I think surgery is over-prescribed in some cases. My goal is to stay mobile and functional. If I can't keep that goal without surgery then I may reconsider.

I've yet to find a local TaiChi class that isn't in the middle of my workday. There IS a free class held twice a month at a local church that I want to try out as it's on Saturday - and free - but they seem to always coincide with other commitments. I think October may be the month that I will finally get to go and try it out.

[Aromig]

A few years ago I was looking for Tai Chi classes in Indy (a work colleague of mine had practiced it on Okinawa and raved about it and would do the classes with me) but found so few options. For awhile Beach Body sold a Tai Chi video program. I bought it, but didn't like it as much as I like in person classes. It did help me identify how I'm so much stronger in balancing on one side and helped me work on evening that out.

[Pax]

Glad you're being cautious, Catrin. Too many people say "sure, okay" whenever a doctor says 'lets cut!' on a shoulder, only to end up with minimal results after rehab.

[rebeccaC]

A few years ago I was looking for Tai Chi classes in Indy (a work colleague of mine had practiced it on Okinawa and raved about it and would do the classes with me) but found so few options. For awhile Beach Body sold a Tai Chi video program. I bought it, but didn't like it as much as I like in person classes. It did help me identify how I'm so much stronger in balancing on one side and helped me work on evening that out.

Catrin I’ll second Tai Chi!!! (thinking i may have before :))....especially for your enjoyment of hiking. Learning/feeling the integration of form and balance without force will help with your body movement and in cultivating an internal awareness of your mental/physical connections. It can give your hiking a feeling of moving with calm intention rather than force, which can also give you more insight into the beauty around you :).

[Catrin]

Glad you're being cautious, Catrin. Too many people say "sure, okay" whenever a doctor says 'lets cut!' on a shoulder, only to end up with minimal results after rehab.
That's what I'm thinking Pax - especially as this is a far-from-new injury and there is already tendon retraction. From what I've read that alone significantly lowers the success rate.

Also, if I decided to allow surgery, which part would I allow them to start with? They also want to "fix" my right metatarsal with a not-small surgery. THEN there is the... no. Just...no. That answer may eventually change, but hopefully all my broken and arthritic parts will hang in there for the rest of my life.

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[Catrin]

Catrin I’ll second Tai Chi!!! (thinking i may have before :))....especially for your enjoyment of hiking. Learning/feeling the integration of form and balance without force will help with your body movement and in cultivating an internal awareness of your mental/physical connections. It can give your hiking a feeling of moving with calm intention rather than force, which can also give you more insight into the beauty around you :).
Thanks for the note Rebecca. From what I've read it Tai Chi really does sound like an important addition to my activities. Yoga just has too much I can't, or shouldn't, do.

If I can't find a local class, can anyone recommend a good intro DVD? That isn't optimal but it may be the only option.

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[rebeccaC]

In talking to Alex about this tonight we’d recommended starting with Lam Kam Chuen’s book ‘Step by Step Tai Chi’ to get an introduction/understanding of the principles of Tai Chi and its movements before a class or video. Having that base of understanding would especially allow you to get more out of going to a first class. A good instructor can then offer customized feedback, support and make sure your form is correct and effective. Plus...perhaps you could also have positive interactions with and support from others in a class.

Alex found the (Irvington Wellness Center (http://irvingtonwellnesscenter.com)) in Indianapolis if that’s close to you or perhaps call them and ask about closer classes. Chris Pei’s ‘Tai Chi for Beginners’ is a good video but a second choice to a class. Hoping others can also give you some recommendations too.

and thanks for giving us a good conversation tonight :)

[Catrin]

Thanks so much Rebecca! I do know about the Irvington Wellness Center - they just don't seem to return calls... I've also asked a former TaiChi instructor who now does something else to see if she has suggestions.

I finally saw my MRI report today. The superspinitis tendon tear is a full-thickness tear, and somehow I've managed to wind up with a longtitudional split tear of the long head of the biceps tendon. How does one even DO that? Leave it to me :rolleyes: So....I'm changing and headed to the back room to play with kettlebells. Carefully...

[Catrin]

Saw my DO PCP today for a talk and he mentioned something that helped to put things in context. It helped me and thought it might help others.

He said that osteoarthritis isn't a primary cause but the consequences of our body attempting to normalize an abnormality - such as a bone spur trying to close a gap left by torn soft tissue/tendon/whatever. Or my trashed bicep tendon that subluxes and THAT can only happen if a certain very small shoulder ligament that can't be seen in an MRI is torn.

It is a different way of looking at it and, well I've quite a lot OA, it helps to see it from this perspective. Everything happens for a reason and that includes this.

[Pax]

My DO told me something similar a few years ago. She let me know that my body is simply responding to what was/is being done to it. Living is hard on the body, no matter how careful we are... I was decidedly NOT careful when I was younger.

[Catrin]

Saw MRI report for OTHER shoulder. Well, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, yes?

[Catrin]

Thanks for the input here, it's been appreciated. I've decided, for now, to hold off on the tendon and rotator cuff surgery and explore alternatives. There is no real danger the tendon will rupture completely, barring some unforeseen circumstance. It isn't THAT painful, and so what if I can't lift overhead for now? I've had so many surgeries over the years - all of which were quite necessary. I am not convinced that this one is just yet. In the end the tendon may be so shredded that there are no other options, but it won't be this year.

The left shoulder? It's just an arthritic hot mess with all kinds of stuff going on - even the shoulder ortho saw no real point to even cleaning it out, just wait to do something when it's time to replace it. Hopefully it will never reach THAT point :eek:

My enforced lack of exercise for almost 2 weeks has been difficult (combo of weather + strained forearm muscle), but am very thankful that I can still hike, do 2-handed KB swings, and elevated/wall pushups :cool:

[Pax]

So glad you're waiting. I keep thinking about the millennia of people who figured out how to work through this sort of thing, and kept on. We all jump at surgery no matter the cost or outcome, and sometimes, I truly think, it would be better to wait and see what our bodies really need.

[Catrin]

So glad you're waiting. I keep thinking about the millennia of people who figured out how to work through this sort of thing, and kept on. We all jump at surgery no matter the cost or outcome, and sometimes, I truly think, it would be better to wait and see what our bodies really need.

Agreed Pax. I did find it interesting that the Ortho didn't consider it worthwhile to clean out my other shoulder - it has large pieces of cartilage floating around, cysts, tendinopathy in all tendons, and other things. There was a time they would have been encouraging that as well - but it is degenerative so it would simply return. So something may be changing out there.

[Catrin]

Back in vent mode....had a flare in my severely arthritic left shoulder and relented - allowed an injection today to calm it. My ortho has convinced me that even kettlebell swings are bad for me - not just overhead work. Guess I need to find another form of cardio work but right now I don't know what that might be.

Then again, my body is so accustomed to the KB swings that hiking gets my heart rate up much higher than even swinging heavier weight, so perhaps mixing speed walking in with hiking and, of course, continue the Tai Chi. I just thought about adding in speed walking - as long as I've the right shoes where my arthritic feet and knees don't overly complain...

Anyone want to buy a set of kettlebells? :( Oh, and by "speed walking", I just mean walking fast. A friend told me that real speed walking is something different that my body probably wouldn't like.

[ny biker]

Sorry the shoulder is still causing problems. Walking has been my go-to cardio exercise since college -- 30 years now. All it really takes it good shoes and comfortable clothes. I increase the effort with hills, which are plentiful around here. And walking on a treadmill can be quite a workout if you increase the incline enough. Walking up and down stairs can also get your heart rate up if you knees are okay with it.

[Crankin]

I agree, Catrin. I've always been a walker, through the time I was teaching aerobics right up to now. While it's not my go to cardio and has never been, it's a consistent activity, for over 30 years. Like today, I didn't have the will to get ready for a cold weather ride, but I could force myself out the door for a 3 mile fast walk. I can walk at a 4 mph pace when I want, which is pretty good. DH and I often take short walks on the days we don't do other stuff. And, I used to walk with my mom when she would visit, or I would go to San Diego. Before she got sick, she was often asked if she was a runner when she went for her physicals, she was in such good shape from walking.

[Catrin]

Thanks NY Biker! Sadly my shoulders are just plain...shot. One with torn tendons and the other an arthritic hot mess for which there is no fix unless it eventually gets bad enough for a shoulder replacement. As bad as it is now, it will have to get MUCH worse before I even consider that. Then there is the jacked neck and the...you get the picture.

I've always been a fast walker, my usual walking space is roughly 4 mph on the terrain around here. Tempted to fire up the gym membership again, but what would I do there? Only 2 machines that don't hurt on good days and the non-machine work just isn't possible. Why spend the money? Planet Fitness has the only fee structure I could justify, but I am very much against their philosophy. I simply refuse to belong to a gym that has free bagel and pizza nights, and for a couple other reasons.

So I'm trying to sell my kettlebell herd to reduce the temptation. While it's sad, it's also true that even light swing workouts have been causing sacrum and SI joint pain, probably lower back arthritis as well. Why not? It's everywhere else.... sigh.

But I can do Tai Chi, hike, and walk. I will take it! There may be other things that turn up that I can also do.

[emily_in_nc]

Oh Catrin, I am so bummed to hear this. I know how much you enjoyed your kettlebells. Dang if it's not always something! :mad:

I do think fast walking, tai chi, and hiking are good, but it's also good to have at least a little upper body strength, just for daily living. Not sure how you could achieve that without kettlebells and with your bad shoulders. Sigh... :(

[Catrin]

Oh Catrin, I am so bummed to hear this. I know how much you enjoyed your kettlebells. Dang if it's not always something! :mad:

I do think fast walking, tai chi, and hiking are good, but it's also good to have at least a little upper body strength, just for daily living. Not sure how you could achieve that without kettlebells and with your bad shoulders. Sigh... :(

Oh I had to to give up the upper body part of it more than a year ago because of shoulders and neck, we just kept discovering more and more about the pathologies underlying all of it. In the last year I could only use kettlebells for swings - which, if done properly, is NOT an upper-body exercise but uses the hips and legs for a good cardiovascular workout. There are many other kettlebell lifts for the upper body, such as the single-arm snatch, jerk, and Long Cycle (the last one was my chosen competition lift - it's a clean and jerk with a KB). And yes, it's not good for my upper body strength but what can I do? Isometric hold exercises IS an option, still researching if it could adversely impact my torn tendons in the one shoulder. It's is good for muscle strengthening, so it COULD be an option.

[emily_in_nc]

Isometric hold exercises IS an option, still researching if it could adversely impact my torn tendons in the one shoulder. It's is good for muscle strengthening, so it COULD be an option.

I see. I knew you'd had to cut back on your kettlebelling and couldn't do the overhead stuff, but assumed the swings were also somewhat upper body impacting. Hoping you can figure out something!

[Catrin]

I see. I knew you'd had to cut back on your kettlebelling and couldn't do the overhead stuff, but assumed the swings were also somewhat upper body impacting. Hoping you can figure out something!
Working on it. Unless the shoulders are as jacked as mine, proper swings don't impact the arms as the hands are just holding them - it's a hip exercise. I'm not referring to the thing that crossfitters call swings...

Hoping I can at least do isometric holds, this uses no weight at all but can be highly effective. Good old Jack LeLane (however his last name is spelled) really focused on this method back in the day. Not much is heard of it these days as it requires NO gym equipment at all, hard to make money from it.

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[emily_in_nc]

Hoping I can at least do isometric holds, this uses no weight at all but can be highly effective. Good old Jack LeLane (however his last name is spelled) really focused on this method back in the day. Not much is heard of it these days as it requires NO gym equipment at all, hard to make money from it.

I remember that! Jack LaLane was in amazing shape. Can you do planks at all? I am guessing no, with your shoulders. But not sure what other isometric hold you are referring to. Enlighten me?

[Catrin]

I remember that! Jack LaLane was in amazing shape. Can you do planks at all? I am guessing no, with your shoulders. But not sure what other isometric hold you are referring to. Enlighten me?

Isometric exercises are those exercises that contracts the muscle without changing either angle of the joint or the length of the muscle. There are different approaches to isometric exercises for strength, and at least for my upper body, there is really only one approach that seems safe.

It's simply this. Intentionally contract the muscle and hold it without moving it once it's contracted. Sounds very simple, but I know of someone who lost no muscle tone after enduring a lengthy period in a body cast. All he was capable of doing were these isometric holds (as my trainer calls them)- for his entire body - and focused on that as often as he could. Now I'm not in HIS situation, and I'm weight bearing in other ways fortunately. Other good examples are things like squats, lunges, and push-ups. I can do the first two as much as my knees allow, I won't attempt push-ups (pain) - planks are actually better (no pain) and I think that's because there is no movement.I THINK I can also do this against a wall if I can find the right angle - basically a plank against the wall. That might actually be kinder than doing it on the floor as my entire bodyweight wouldn't be involved.

Good link to a broader discussion of isometric exercise (http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/isometric-exercises.html)in general. You will note a reference to certain activities that by their nature are isometric - including mountain biking, climbing, and skiing :) You will also note a discussion on a wider range of isometric exercises than what I mention above, but I'm focusing on options that might at least help me slow down the loss of upper body strength without hurting myself further.

Frankly, if my left shoulder weren't so *&*%^$@% arthritic, I think I would be more likely to allow them to fix the shoulder with the torn tendons. As that isn't the case, I will wait until/unless I lose more function in the torn shoulder because it's STILL more functional than the arthritic one - and I live alone.

[emily_in_nc]

Good information, Catrin, thanks. I knew that planks were isometric but couldn't think of too many other examples. It's definitely easier to do them on an angle against a wall. On the floor is hard as it uses a lot of core strength; it's certainly not just an upper body exercise. A side plank uses a lot of upper body but would probably be too tough on your shoulders.

[Catrin]

Good information, Catrin, thanks. I knew that planks were isometric but couldn't think of too many other examples. It's definitely easier to do them on an angle against a wall. On the floor is hard as it uses a lot of core strength; it's certainly not just an upper body exercise. A side plank uses a lot of upper body but would probably be too tough on your shoulders.

Yes, no way I can do a side plank. There are many other ways as well - holding a weight in a static position without moving for a period of time, hard to explain but I think you understand. The important thing is the joint doesn't move and the muscle doesn't lengthen - and while some do use weights - body weight is usually enough. I've got to be more careful than many but I won't give up!

[Pax]

Stinks about the shoulders, mine are not as bad but still screwed up enough that I couldn't do a kettle bell thing if my life depended on it.

We have a new Planet Fitness less than a mile form the apt. so we joined. Turns out an elliptical works well on my bum leg, so I do that and lift a lot of weights. Their philosophy is bizarre, but I'm not there when they do their silliness, so I go in and work out and leave, I rarely even go into the locker room... so overall it's handy enough for me that I actually go.

[Catrin]

Stinks about the shoulders, mine are not as bad but still screwed up enough that I couldn't do a kettle bell thing if my life depended on it.

We have a new Planet Fitness less than a mile form the apt. so we joined. Turns out an elliptical works well on my bum leg, so I do that and lift a lot of weights. Their philosophy is bizarre, but I'm not there when they do their silliness, so I go in and work out and leave, I rarely even go into the locker room... so overall it's handy enough for me that I actually go.
Sounds great Pax! I wish that I could do weights of some kind...but such is life. Enjoy!

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[Crankin]

Pax, what is the silliness? I see their dumb ads, but I've never known anyone who went there (don't seem to be a lot around here), except some of my clients in my first internship.

[Catrin]

Pax, what is the silliness? I see their dumb ads, but I've never known anyone who went there (don't seem to be a lot around here), except some of my clients in my first internship.
Things like free bagel and or pizza nights. Tanning beds, around here at least, and if they think you're workout style makes someone else feel judged they may kick you out. They have large noise mailers if someone grunts too loud, different things like that. Afternall, they are NOT a gym, they are "Planet Fitness"! ;)



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[Catrin]

...Things like free bagel and or pizza nights. Tanning beds, around here at least, and if your workout style makes someone else feel judged they may kick you out. They have large noise makers if someone grunts too loud, different things like that. After all, they are NOT a gym, they are "Planet Fitness"! ;)

[Pax]

Yup, what Catrin said. They have pizza night and bagel morning once a month here (funny to watch someone do a tiny minimal workout, then sit and eat three slices of Papa Johns), the "lunk alarm" sounds if anyone gets too enthusiastic in the weight area, they have some silly non-scientific "hydro bed" you can use if you buy a premium membership (it looks like a massage lounger with a TV attached). Mostly just lots of hooks and gimmicks to make non-gym people happy, more power to them, I just ignore it all and do my workout.

[Catrin]

Yup, what Catrin said. They have pizza night and bagel morning once a month here (funny to watch someone do a tiny minimal workout, then sit and eat three slices of Papa Johns), the "lunk alarm" sounds if anyone gets too enthusiastic in the weight area, they have some silly non-scientific "hydro bed" you can use if you buy a premium membership (it looks like a massage lounger with a TV attached). Mostly just lots of hooks and gimmicks to make non-gym people happy, more power to them, I just ignore it all and do my workout.

Yeah, HERE they have pizza/bagels 1-2 evenings a week as well as soda. The price is good, $10/month, but it's really obvious what they REALLY want are people to sign up and leave it at that. I could be more snarky than that but I won't :cool:

[Pax]

Yeah, HERE they have pizza/bagels 1-2 evenings a week as well as soda. The price is good, $10/month, but it's really obvious what they REALLY want are people to sign up and leave it at that. I could be more snarky than that but I won't :cool:

They said as much when I was in after New Years, the manager said "ca-CHING" when a new person took off on a tour, I asked if they were doing we;; and she said "oh YEAH, and most won't come back by February". Seems like the monetary model for most gyms, but this one adds in all sorts of extra goofiness to get people in.

[Crankin]

We don't have a lot of gyms like that... more the opposite. Extremely expensive, either full service, like the one I go to, or boutique places that focus on one, maybe two disciplines. The club I belong to used to be the most expensive one around, but not now. We are only fitness members, so no pool or tennis. I can use the pool for water aerobics, and that's it. When we first joined, we had the whole family, year round pool , tennis, fitness membership, as DH was a tennis player before he was a cyclist. My town also has an extensive lis of classes, including yoga, spin, HIIT, and a gym with most of the focus on swimming. It's not so cheap, as belonging to the gym does not include the classes, which are at other sites. It only gives you a discount. The newest thing in town is Orange Theory. It's basically HIIT wearing heart rate monitors, which are displayed on giant screens by #. Only the instructor knows everyone's number. My former neighbor is teaching there. They scream out instructions to you, based on your HR. Oy. A monthly membership to places like Soul Cycle in Boston is like 400.00. The only other gym I belonged to was Golds, for 3 years. It was cheap, like 600.00 a year if you paid up front, but it was dirty and not a lot of classes. I only went for the 2 classes in the early AM. Other than that, I always had free use of gyms because I was teaching there, so I've seen a lot.

[Catrin]

We have such a mix of gyms in Indianapolis. Planet Fitness is the cheapest, and goofiest, but we run the entire gamut. If I COULD do more than walk the track and use the Cybex Arc Trainer (an elliptical-type variant - the only one that doesn't hurt knee nor hip AND I can avoid using my arms) I would either rejoin NIFS or the local Y - probably NIFS for a couple of good reasons. It's depressing to go there, however, given I can't do 99% of what they offer - but the Tai Chi, hiking, and pavement walking should fill most of my needs, and hopefully some intelligent isometric work will help my arms a bit.

One of my former competition kettlebell training partners (who became a literal world champion in the 2015 Kettlebell Worlds in Dublin) teaches at one of the local Orange Theory locations. She isn't impressed with the entire philosophy there but she makes such good money there for a few hours a week that she has stuck around.

I have also managed to sell my entire kettlebell herd for 50% of what I initially paid for it. The deal happens Saturday. I suppose I could have charged more but that didn't feel right. Kettlebells don't go stale or can be broken - short of some major disaster ;)

[Pax]

Glad you found a home for your kettle bells, Catrin! Probably good to get them out of sight before you're tempted to give them a go again.

[Sky King]

Change is SOOO hard. I gave up my favorite gym and joined the YMCA - trying to be fiscally responsible. My observation of those using kettle bells at the Y is yikes! these folks have no idea how to swing a kettle bell. I am still trying out all the different group fitness classes to see what works best for my tricky knee. Yesterday I took a spin class, I haven't been on my bike since Thanksgiving, ugh. The instructor was at least more of bike rider than a spin instructor. She had us working on steady cadence while using "4" gears. The cadence was 100rpm which is quicker than I normally ride so I didn't get to carried away with pushing a big gear. The saddle on the spin bike was a PIA :)

[Catrin]

Glad you found a home for your kettle bells, Catrin! Probably good to get them out of sight before you're tempted to give them a go again.

Exactly, and I've been noting back and sacrum pain with them, so yeah, remove the temptation! THEN I've funded my next couple of Tai Chi classes :cool:

[Catrin]

Change is SOOO hard. I gave up my favorite gym and joined the YMCA - trying to be fiscally responsible. My observation of those using kettle bells at the Y is yikes! these folks have no idea how to swing a kettle bell. I am still trying out all the different group fitness classes to see what works best for my tricky knee. Yesterday I took a spin class, I haven't been on my bike since Thanksgiving, ugh. The instructor was at least more of bike rider than a spin instructor. She had us working on steady cadence while using "4" gears. The cadence was 100rpm which is quicker than I normally ride so I didn't get to carried away with pushing a big gear. The saddle on the spin bike was a PIA :)

Yes, sadly there are a lot of trainers who apparently have no idea that kettlebells aren't dumbbells and that a lack of proper form WILL cause injury. The dynamic nature (they don't stay stable in the hand) of KBs certainly contributes. Then there are those who think the so-called "American Swing" that Crossfitters do is healthy (swings are actually a hip exercise, not overhead - there are much better ways to do that such as the single arm snatch or long cycle (clean and jerk). If you want to do both arms at the same time then use 2 kettlebells.) But that's another story & it's not up to me to tell them what they're doing wrong, and they probably wouldn't appreciate it if I did... Of course, this can be said for ANY kind of lifting.

[azfiddle]

I have occasionally been a member of a the Chuze chain gym ($10 month for basic use) and the YMCA, which is only 6 blocks from my house and has a pool too.

[Pax]

Since I'm affiliated with the university I can buy a pass there for $35 a month, it gives me access to the finest facilities in the world, I mean absolute top shelf equipment and facilities... but they have bizarre hours coinciding with student schedules (holidays, end of semester, summer) that make getting into and keeping a routine really difficult. And the pool, while amazing, is kept at collegiate competitive temps which are really damned cold when you're not a young elite athlete.

[Catrin]

Can I just go ahead and order up two new shoulders and have them installed tomorrow please?

Sigh...trying not to complain. I've it so much better than some do with really bad shoulders. I am going to allow them to inject the torn shoulder again next week, it worked well when we last did that in September and got a good period of relief afterwards - though I already know I won't really be able to use the shoulder for a couple days following. I should allow them to fix that one at least, but this is a really intense time at work (it's a 4 year cycle) and I cannot, and will not, take the time off work right now. Also unsure I would actually get relief - "fixing" joints is always risky. Also, the other shoulder is MUCH worse and I fear that the additional stress wouldn't help that one. So...I am placing my order for those pretty new shoulders up there on the shelf, they look exactly my size :cool:

[Pax]

Really sorry to hear this, Catrin. Like you, I can handle my injuries and know how to work around them... but when they get worse or a new fun body part decides to get involved, it's maddening.

I join you in this with my new gait changes from the knee replacement surgery, now I have issues with posterior tibialis tendonitis in my good leg (foot).

[Catrin]

Thanks Pax! I also hear you about your knee. For me, those shin splints I got in my OTHER leg in October is still hanging around. I still think that part of that was due to my changed gait from the knee injury and repair.

I tried to find a closer shoulder Ortho, the one I've been seeing for my shoulder injections is quite some distance away. I figure that fixing my torn shoulder will eventually have to happen since it's deteriorating...so I should find someone closer. Getting to the surgeon's office after a surgery is hard enough, but 25 miles away makes it quite difficult when you can't drive yet.

So a good friend recommended someone and I called his office. He is with the same overall group as my current Ortho and he looked up his notes on me to decide if he could take over my care and...he passed. He passed because of the level of arthritic change in my OTHER shoulder and he did not think that he could provide proper care for BOTH shoulders.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad the Ortho was honest, but it's the first time that I've had a specialist turn me down (at all), but especially for that reason. A bit surreal for me. Sure wish I had known just how bad the shoulders were before I started competitive kettlebell training, but that's life.

[Pax]

That sucks that the surgeon turned you down, had the same thing happen to me in FL. Two ortho docs looked at my knee and declined their services, too much scar tissue in the joint. Took a few tries to find a doc who would take on my care... and when we go back to FL in the fall I have to find yet another doctor. Remember when it used to be if you got sick or injured you went to the doctor and they provided care?

[Crankin]

To play devil's advocate, I might be, after the initial being angry, glad they did this. It means they don't have the skills to help you and they are being honest. Better than messing you up, even more, which we know can happen. It doesn't mean there isn't someone who could help, but s/he might be far away.
On my own little level, I have had to do this a few times. Usually, it's just to the intake person, but sometimes I am not the right therapist for someone or someone's family member.

[Catrin]

True, I'm NOT upset and for that very reason. I guess that this really struck home on just how bad my shoulders are. I've been trying to fool myself and ignore pain, especially for the arthritic shoulder. It's sobering when they tell you it's so bad that all they can do is to replace it when it further deteriorates. I am far from pressing for surgery for either of them, from what I've been told it's dicey to replace a shoulder for someone as young as I who still wants to be active, and I can tolerate it's current condition for a very long time (hopefully). What I'm saying was that this was a wake-up call. The surgeon who turned me down has 40+ years of experience and specializes in shoulders...(but he doesn't do replacements). I DO want to find someone closer to me who is qualified to deal with both...for sure.

[Crankin]

I don't blame you in not wanting the surgery, until it's absolutely necessary. But why would it be a contraindication for an active person? Usually they like that. And, being younger.

[Catrin]

I don't think they have been replacing shoulders for all that long. It's a much more complex joint than knee or hip, or so I've been told. Beyond that I can only speculate that it may be about the perceived life of the replacement and that increased activity shortens it? Hopefully that will change.

[Catrin]

I found the following summary information on WebMD (I added the bold for higlighting):

"Some doctors will recommend other types of surgery if possible for younger people and especially for those who do strenuous work. A younger or more active person is more likely than an older or less active person to have an artificial shoulder joint wear out.

Doctors usually do not recommend shoulder replacement surgery for people who have very high expectations for how much they will be able to do with the artificial joint (for example, people who expect to be able to play competitive tennis, paint ceilings, or do other activities that stress the shoulder joint). The artificial shoulder allows a person to do ordinary daily activities with less pain. It does not restore the same level of function that the person had before the damage to the shoulder joint began...

The younger you are when you have the surgery, and the more stress you put on the joint, the more likely it is that you will eventually need a second surgery to replace the first artificial joint." (this makes sense)

From what I've read, it does seem a more complex replacement, mechanically speaking. Apparently there is a new method called "reverse shoulder replacement" that has promise for some with major arthritic damage.. So one is guaranteed to have significantly decreased use of the shoulder, but able to do daily tasks with less pain... Obviously one doesn't take this option to regain function! May I never have to go there...

[Catrin]

I saw my Ortho yesterday to discuss another cortisone injection in my torn shoulder (I decided to put that off awhile longer as it's a balance between pain relief and risking damage to the non-arthritic shoulder joint ), and I asked if my understanding on shoulder replacement was correct. It was...he said that while my other shoulder certainly has enough arthritic changes to justify a full replacement, I am too young and too active to even consider. Apparently there is some return of function, but not much. Basically meant for pain relief and to stop further loss of function.

With my previous assumptions I thought it would be helpful to post what I learned in case there are others reading this with the same situation. I know this site has far more readers than formal members and posters.

[Pax]

Catrin - so glad your doc was forthcoming! Wish more of them were about what is expected from these life altering surgeries.

[Catrin]

Catrin - so glad your doc was forthcoming! Wish more of them were about what is expected from these life altering surgeries.

Agreed - and I got a referral for someone else closer to me. When the time DOES come to fix the torn shoulder - and that time will come I think - I need someone who isn't 30 miles away.

What's interesting is that even most of the informational websites on full shoulder replacements refer to the same age/activity level issue (some in more detail than others). I think this is an even more complex replacement than either knee or hip - and as good as they've become at those things they still have much room for improvement.

[Catrin]

An update since my decision to finally address things in April. I found a great shoulder specialist who picked up immediately that I had a compressed nerve root in my cervical spine that needed addressed before there was any hope of a successful shoulder repair. The neck surgery happened in July, and the difference is amazing! Now I only have pain where it actually should be. The should repair is complex and will require a lengthy recovery period - but at the end I get my arm back and will hopefully be able to return to have a more normal range of activities. That surgery is scheduled for October 16th, and am working with friends to create a support team while I have use of only one arm (and the other isn't in good shape).

[Catrin]

16 days countdown before a complex shoulder recovery. As complicated as it is, the surgeon is warning me that it may be even more complex than we think. He IS one of the very good shoulder specialists in the area who has done a lot of work with female professional athletes, so what will be is what will be. I've some concern over the reality of living alone and having my dominant arm in an immobilizer for at least 6 weeks (and the other shoulder/hand isn't very mobile due to severe arthritis), but it's the only way to get my arm back and to prevent things from deteriorating even more than they have.

I AM looking forward to, hopefully, being able to once again be able to exercise properly (and other things) by this time next year!

[Catrin]

2 weeks before the shoulder immobilizer sling comes off, then life gets really interesting! I will HAVE to be patient to get through the 4+ months of PT if I've any hopes of getting my arm back & be able to really exercise again!

[ShawnDay]

You've been through a lot, Catrin. I really feel for you. How's the PT going? I hope well!

[Catrin]

You've been through a lot, Catrin. I really feel for you. How's the PT going? I hope well!

My neck problems slowed things down, but I seem to have finally turned a corner! PT twice a week for 6 more weeks (until 16 weeks out from surgery), and then we will see. Got to do lat pulls today with a whopping 5 pounds, woot! :cool:

[rebeccaC]

This has been such a long and difficult journey for you Catrin. As always my prayers that the blessings of positivity can help some in the recovery moments that are difficult both physically and emotionally. I’m glad you have this forum for solace, support and for a sense of caring from us. With an open heart I also pray you can find some peace within the support and caring here and elsewhere!!!!!

[ny biker]

You're in the home stretch now... slow and steady is the best approach. Five pounds now is five more than you could do before!

[Catrin]

Hope all are doing well! I'm STILL in the snail-pace recovery stage, and the improvements are almost imperceptible at the time, but I'm certainly further along than when I posted the first week of the year. The enforced inactivity, however, deconditioned me so badly that until this week I was unable to walk for more than 5 minutes without some serious hip/hamstring/groin/IT band issues in my right leg. YIKES!!!! Went to my chiro and he was pretty sure that it was all tendon/ligament/muscle related to deconditioning. He treated me and advised me to just keep walking as much as possible - if no improvement then likely to be hip arthritis - but thankfully there has been daily improvement since he treated it. I've no idea how his treatment helped, but it did, thankfully!

So I am thankful! Trying to move as much as my body will allow. Even if I won't be allowed to do any actually overhead lifting (gym lifting), or deadlifting and shrugs (or kettlebells) ever again (assuming I want to avoid further spine or shoulder surgeries) - I am thankful at the slow and steady improvement.

I also have deactivated Facebook and other social media outlets for now. I became way too addicted to mindless scrolling - much to my chagrin. I should have warned people I was doing this - but I figured my post would disappear as soon as I deactivated the account. I've since heard that some were concerned at my deactivation - sorry about that! I never meant that, for sure.

[ny biker]

Hi Catrin, thanks for checking in. I know what you mean about social media. It's easy to waste a lot of time with it.

Glad to hear you're making progress even if it is slow. And yes, keep moving as much as you can!

[Catrin]

Yes - the problem was the surgery timing. As the shoulder was repaired in October - that meant that I really was not allowed to even walk outside for more than getting to the car or office during the winter (due to the possible consequences of falling between the spine fusion (still in process) and the recovering shoulder) - and nothing inside a gym either. I am still only allowed to walk on pavement for another solid month - but mid-April is much closer than it was & I can start hitting dirt trails! Finally I CAN at least put in 10-15 minutes on the stationary bike at the gym, and a shorter time on the Elliptical or ArcTrainer without repercussions. Even get my heart rate up a bit - woooot! Easy does it but it's a start!

For those who remember my various adventures over the last 10 years, I will note that my body has finally managed to get my attention!

So for any newcomers since my previous adventures - don't be like Catrin - listen to your body!

[Crankin]

So glad to hear from you, Catrin. Yes, listen to your body! But, I understand how frustrating recovery feels. It sounds like with the advent of the warmer weather, you will get to be outside, which I think, is the best goal for all of us. Even if it means being outside in a different way than in the past.

[Catrin]

Whooohooo, I've been released from physical therapy after 5 months!

[Crankin]

Congrats! Enjoy that time outside.

[emily_in_nc]

Whooohooo, I've been released from physical therapy after 5 months!

Yay, Catrin! This is great news. Enjoy your freedom. :D

[Catrin]

Still have to wait for mid-April to start hitting dirt - but as we are expecting 3-6 inches of snow tomorrow!!!!! I wouldn't be outside anyway.