A failed experiment... possibly

[Pax]

Haven't said much about it other than the occasional complaint, but it looks as if our relocation to Florida is rapidly becoming a failed experiment. We could live with the lack of culture and rude people, the beach was an excellent trade off... but a double whammy is hitting us now.

The lack of expanded medicaid (ACA accessibility), is squashing our early retirement dreams. And completely unexpectedly, my asthma is out of control here. I'm on five different asthma meds but it can't control the breathing issues. Since February I've been spending part of every single day gasping for breath, it is so very tiring, both physically and mentally.

We're trying to decide what's next and first and foremost on the list is to return to our hometown in Illinois. It would put us back into the best healthcare plan I've ever seen, slow the asthma issues, and my wife will just stop telecommuting and go back to her office to work.

We would still get a van to convert for travel (my beloved is now 100% on board with this and excited about it), maybe it wouldn't be so bad? We could still get away from winter once we retire.

So, we plan.

[shootingstar]

I'm sorry to hear this, Pax. Of course, health is number on for daily enjoyment and just living.

[OakLeaf]

Ugh, Pax. There's not much worse than not being able to breathe. I'm sorry it doesn't seem to be working out for you, I know how much you were looking forward to the move.

[IBrakeforPastry]

I remember a science teacher once saying there is no such thing as a "failed experiment". Sometimes we just end up with unexpected or unwanted results, so I'm sorry it's not working out as you had planned and hoped for. It sounds as if you have good options, and the van sounds like fun!

[Crankin]

While I am sorry it didn't work out, you are taking the right attitude. Be flexible. Your health is #1, and I can certainly identify with that. While my main reason for moving away from AZ was not health, the added plus of it ended up being both myself and my older son were incredibly healthier, and no longer needed asthma meds every 4 hours.
Sometimes the allure of the beach is enough. Sometimes, though, it blinds us to other stuff. There are a lot of people around here who think all will be perfect if they move to Florida. Lately, I have read a considerable number of articles about how when retirees get down there, they realize they miss their medical care, their families, their friends, and their favorite haunts. Like you, I want to be able to travel when we are fully retired, but moving somewhere else permanently is not going to happen. We have divested ourselves of a lot of the expenses we used to have, so we will be able to do this in a couple of years.

[Pax]

Thanks so much for commiseration, it helps just to lay it out there and look at it objectively.

I'll try the allergist one more time before I throw in the towel, see if he's got anything else up his sleeve. But I'm just so exhausted all the time from trying to breathe, I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

[smilingcat]

I wish you well and get a handle on your asthma. Being open to other possibilities is a good thing. And sometimes, best place is "home". You don't realize it until you try living elsewhere. It's the Yin and Yang thing.

[ny biker]

I remember a science teacher once saying there is no such thing as a "failed experiment". Sometimes we just end up with unexpected or unwanted results, so I'm sorry it's not working out as you had planned and hoped for. It sounds as if you have good options, and the van sounds like fun!

I think this is so true. Over the years I've found that even bad experiences can be useful. And sometimes an unexpected plan B can turn out to be a good thing. Breathing certainly is very important, as is not going broke trying to stay healthy.

[rebeccaC]

reminds us who are healthy to feel blessed and grateful!!! hoping the allergist finds a workable solution for you!!!

[OakLeaf]

You know, this morning I'm reading the local news, as I have most mornings for a decade, and I noticed something I never had before.

At the bottom of the front page of each local paper's website, there's a row of headshots of ordinary citizens.

In the northern paper, they're obituaries, so we can extend sympathy to our neighbors.

In the Daytona paper, they're mugshots, so we can sneer at and gossip about our neighbors.

Kind of says a lot.


ETA: sorry about the smiley face, don't know what I clicked to put it there accidentally, can't find a way to remove it.

[Crankin]

Even though it's not funny, I just laughed at your comment, Oak. I think it sums it up perfectly.
Too many years in eternal sunshine made me cynical. I wonder how this happened?

[Pax]

Oak - I agree, it is a strange place with no sense of community. Seems to be "every man for himself", as though the people who move here either come from a place where that behavior is the norm, or feel alienated enough here to adopt it.

[lph]

Why would anyone want to see mugshots in their daily paper, unless they're really dangerous people at loose?? What an absurd and cruel idea. Wishing you the best with your move, Pax. I truly believe one can be happy anywhere, some places make it easier, but it mostly depends on other things than location, like friends, family, activities, adaptation.

[Pax]

Thanks, lph, I'm trying to approach this with kindness and love. View it as an opportunity to reconnect with friends and family back home. I've been beating myself up about it, first my leg now my lungs; been doing a lot of "woe is me". But I need to look at it with new eyes and an open heart... I don't hate home, I just wanted to get away from winter.

My one regret will be giving up my job, it was so hard to get and I love the library and students. But something decent will come up back home.

[north woods gal]

Little late on this, but my heartfelt wish that you find some comfort, too.

In my life, I have lived in many places and have learned that the perfect place does not really exist, but the right place is something I've found a couple of times, though that right place can only be right if your health says it is so. Have visited Florida several times and, frankly, it would not be healthy for me, either. No, it's not the heat and humidity - I can handle that well enough - but that insane air conditioning every one uses to the max, down there, drives me nuts. Just when I'm getting used to the heat outdoors on a bike ride or a walk, I step into a building and get blasted by the AC. Last trip, down there, I actually had to go buy a sweater for use, indoors. That's just nuts. That can't be healthy. Best of luck to you.

[Pax]

The insane AC is really the only thing keeping me breathing right now, but I surely don't like it. The library where I work is kept so cold I wear a thick fleece all evening and the other day I had my sleeves pulled over my hands with just my fingertips poking out so I could type.

[emily_in_nc]

I am sorry to hear this, Pax! I know how much you were looking forward to your new life in Florida. BUT, health is #1, and then all the cultural things you've mentioned before are quite important too. Some places just aren't the right fit, and sometimes, it doesn't take all that long to figure that out.

We've been through this several times ourselves: our move to Belize, which we thought would last "forever" -- it soon became apparent that it was not the right fit for us, and we had some health issues as well (not as serious as yours, tho). Mexico, more recently -- we went into that with our eyes wide open after Belize, did not expect it to last forever, and when it started to become un-fun, we knew the time was right to move back to the US. We still love Mexico, and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't try it again (but a different area) one day, but not right away. And long before either of these expat experiences, we briefly moved to Wisconsin and to Florida during our 31-year marriage. In both cases, my DH decided he was not happy (though I actually was, especially with our situation in Florida, because I loved my job), and we moved back to NC. And in those cases, that worked out well for us with work and everything else (friends, family, etc.)

In every case, we try to look at these experiences as things we learned from. They just added to the pool of life experiences and hopefully helped us to choose better the next time (though we are very slow learners, it appears!) In our case, I think we learned that we need variety, and that is why we are currently nomadic. We get bored and itchy staying in one place for too long. I suspect eventually we'll settle down, but we're in no hurry. I think your Florida experience taught you a lot as well; and I can certainly, completely relate to the desire to get away from winter -- that was one of the main drivers for us in both Belize and Mexico, and why we spent most of this past winter in Florida.

I wish you only the best -- in health and in life! Keep us posted!

[Pax]

Thanks, Emily. I knew you'd get it, you've been on this road of trying new places and being willing to walk if it was a poor fit. Today was a very bad day breathing wise, I've got a doc appt. on June 2nd so I'm hoping there's some magic pill available... if not we'll make the necessary arrangements to go home. And I will job hunt and seek out the things I loved about the place before; and when we quit working we can get that van and wander from that home base.

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, for me without major health issues, that's the worst part of Florida in the warmer months. Even when it's 70° or cooler outside at night, you can't open the windows, or everything will turn to mold within hours. Not exaggerating - a visible coat of mold on furniture, shoes, books, leather garments, plasticized garments, doors, everything. And when it's that cool outside, the AC has to be cranked into the low 70s or even cooler to keep the humidity under 70%. All the more so when northerners who don't understand, move there in the winter and put in carpeting and curtains and wallpaper (guilty of replacing the carpet the Canadian previous owners put in our house :( ). All the more so when it's a library full of books, even if there's nothing else in there to absorb moisture.

[Pax]

Oak - I look at old pictures of this place, like back in the 1800's, and wonder how on earth they thrived here. It must have been abjectly miserable seven months of the year.

[Catrin]

I had no idea that mold was such a problem there! I've been in southern Florida a couple of times and all I really remember are bugs. Really, really F*CKING GIGNORMOUS BUGS...ahem, please forgive the language.

[Pax]

Mold, endless pollen, freaking HUGE bugs, water restrictions, sink holes (from people who ignore water restrictions), tornadoes, and hurricanes... but BEACH!

[Crankin]

Yup, that's when I found out I am allergic to mold. And what happens when you keep your closet doors shut (mold). Having the Orkin man once a week, so you don't find those huge palmetto bugs in your bread drawer. Rain every day 6+ months out of the year, and freaking horrible humidity.

[emily_in_nc]

Yeah, for me without major health issues, that's the worst part of Florida in the warmer months. Even when it's 70° or cooler outside at night, you can't open the windows, or everything will turn to mold within hours. Not exaggerating - a visible coat of mold on furniture, shoes, books, leather garments, plasticized garments, doors, everything. And when it's that cool outside, the AC has to be cranked into the low 70s or even cooler to keep the humidity under 70%. All the more so when northerners who don't understand, move there in the winter and put in carpeting and curtains and wallpaper (guilty of replacing the carpet the Canadian previous owners put in our house :( ). All the more so when it's a library full of books, even if there's nothing else in there to absorb moisture.

This is so true. We have been so lucky in our spring travels to have mostly low to moderate humidity, even all over the south. All that just changed, and the humidity soared today. Even with temps around 72, we were DYING from the sultriness of it, since we haven't experienced that for so long. (Note: We are currently in Arkansas.) So, we turned on the air, since we have electric hookups at our current campground. We had to bump it to 68 to get it to stay on long enough to get the humidity down into the 50s, and then it was freezing! But better that than mold and mildew.

I thought I'd gotten used to humidity from living in Belize and Mexico, but I guess it's been long enough that I'd forgotten how ghastly it can feel. We enjoyed our winter in Florida but are very glad not to be there now.

[OakLeaf]

Oak - I look at old pictures of this place, like back in the 1800's, and wonder how on earth they thrived here. It must have been abjectly miserable seven months of the year.

I've heard stories about how settlers sometimes died of anemia just from mosquito bites. I don't know how true that is, but from how aggressive the mosquitoes are even with modern and early industrial (and environmentally destructive) control methods, I completely believe it. If I forget repellents, long pants and long sleeves, I'll often get five or ten bites in the time it takes to drag my trash cans the 25 feet from the garage to the curb.

[Sky King]

My favorite quote "life is what happens while we are busy making plans" Sorry to hear about the unexpected but happy to hear you all are flexible enough to go with a flow.

[Pax]

So, a frustrating visit to the allergist, I'm "presenting in an asymptomatic fashion" meaning my lungs are clear (not full of crap) but my smooth muscles are not working right. The verdict "lets get a chest xray and try these new drugs for a month and see how it goes, meanwhile, avoid your allergen triggers". arrrggghh

[Crankin]

Sounds like what I was told... only it was called "non-specious" asthma, back in the 80s. My chest hurt like hell, but I wasn't wheezing. I took so many courses of Prednisone, no wonder I have osteoporosis. And that awful older drug, Theophylline. It felt like I was on speed. This was before all the drugs we have today were invented. I stopped seeing the pulmonologist at that point, and went to an allergist and restarted allergy shots for the 3d time in my life. I felt horrible after every shot, so eventually I quit that, too. As it turns out, a couple of years after I moved back to MA (which cured my asthma), I found out that the allergist who I went to in Tempe (his brother lives near here) was the principal inventor of Advair.
I wish you luck, Pax. I truly understand how you are feeling.

[Pax]

Thanks, Crankin. She told me today, if we're planning on moving home to Illinois in the next 1-4 years there's no point in starting them here in FL. I was happy to hear that as I was controlled just fine back in IL, no reason to inject me with a bunch of stuff for here.

[OakLeaf]

Oh, man. Hope you can get some relief from the new meds.

I will say I got at least 80% relief from my cedar allergy within three or four shots. Way before I was even built up to full strength. So I don't know why they wouldn't want you to try that even if was "only" going to be a year or four.

[Pax]

Oh, man. Hope you can get some relief from the new meds.

I will say I got at least 80% relief from my cedar allergy within three or four shots. Way before I was even built up to full strength. So I don't know why they wouldn't want you to try that even if was "only" going to be a year or four.

She said it was hard on your immune system to start them, then switch to others for a different location. That coupled with the lack of wheezing and junk in my lungs and she thought it may not be 100% related to allergens. I guess sometimes people just have asthma issues without the allergies causing it.

[ny biker]

Oh yeah. My asthma triggers are exercise (especially cycling up steep hills), cold dry winter air and air pollutants like the concrete dust from the parking lot renovation at my last office or the asphalt plant pollution at the one I'm supposed to work at now. I also have asthma symptoms when they put tons of salt on the roads in winter. My allergy symptoms are primarily non-asthma -- itchy eyes and sneezing. I do feel some chest tightness sometimes after a long bike ride when pollen levels are very high, but most days it's not an issue.

[Pax]

Yeah, NY, I asked her why I was so well controlled back in Illinois and she said it was likely due to the killing frost there, coupled with a host of new exposures here. It could be anything from the salt in the air to the endless array of mold spores here, and they can only test for so much.

[ny biker]

And the tests sometimes yield false positives or negatives. My allergist told me that food allergy tests in particular are of limited use because of the processing they have to do to create the serum used for the test.

I've been noticing some strange patterns with the chronic hives that I get. (The doctor thinks they are autoimmune though he did not order testing to confirm that, and I'm okay with that since the treatment is the same either way.) In the past I've had several big flare ups right before getting my period. Last winter they kicked up during a perimenopausal hormone swing from several months of hot flashes to several months of periods. At the same time I started having joint pain in several fingers on my left hand. The hives calmed down and the joint pain went away, but now they're both back again this week. I did a bike ride in very hot weather on Saturday -- the first time out in the heat this year, and it hit me hard because I'm completely unacclimated -- and I think that caused this most recent flare, as I've gotten heat rash and hives in the past after long bike rides on very hot days.

I've never noticed any relationship between my asthma symptoms and flare ups of hives or hormone swings, but I wouldn't be surprised if things like hormones or stress (whether its from being out in the heat or moving or starting a new job) can combine with environmental factors to make asthma worse.

[Pax]

I can imagine stress playing a roll in my current issue, the idea of my problem causing us to have to move made me an emotional mess. My breathing is still labored, usually mid-morning each day, but it's getting better overall... and I'm more at peace, overall. Don't think it's a coincidence, mind/body connection is very real.

[Crankin]

NY, your hives story is very interesting. I had chronic hives during the period I was having the asthma issues, when I was about 34-35. But, after I moved back here, and I was generally healthier, I had them again, on and off for 2 years. No one found any cause, and they were concerned because my mom had them all of her life and she died of an autoimmune liver disease. But, my tests for that were fine. I've come to the conclusion it was stress, coupled with peri-menopause, which for me, started at about age 39 (yes, 7.5 years of hell).

[Pax]

The decision is made, we will be moving home. The only question left is when; we're going home for a week in late July and will look at a couple of condos and apartments, if we find something we like we will go when the opportunity presents (closing date or availability date). If we don't find anything we'll keep looking from afar; our latest date to go home will be May of 2017 (10 months from now) if my asthma cooperates, but I'm betting it won't be that long before we go.

[Crankin]

I am sure you are relieved to have the decision made. Sometimes, it's a lesson in being flexible when things do not go as we thought they would.
Here's to happy future adventures.

[emily_in_nc]

What Crankin said! I know I feel better once a decision is made (the "J" part of my Myers-Briggs personality type), so I, at least, would be relieved just to have that part behind me. I hope you'll keep posting about how your move plans go. Wishing you happy trails and smooth sailing ahead, Pax!

(And I hope you don't have to move north during the winter!!!) :D

[Pax]

Thanks Crankin, the relief in our home is palpable. I feel bad for my honey since she loves being outside so much, but she's even ready to throw in the towel because of the bigots.

Emily, it's another adventure! I'll post in this thread as things progress.

We're going to open bank accounts while we're home, and get pre-qual'd for a mortgage. That way if we find something we like we can buy and just have our lawyer handle it while we're in FL.

[OakLeaf]

I'll miss you, but it sounds like it's for the best.

Happy house hunting.

[Pax]

Thanks, Oak, I'll miss you too. Although I may be here for one more snowbird season.

[Catrin]

Good luck, and it sounds like it is really for the best. May it go smoothly!

[ny biker]

I thought of you often this past week, Pax. I just returned from my first-ever visit to Cape Cod which was wonderful except that I am apparently allergic to it! It started with mild asthma symptoms my first night there, then developed into non-stop nasal congestion, sneezing and lots of coughing. Also I had a few hives. We left yesterday and my head cleared by the time we reached Connecticut. I'm still coughing a bit, as the histamines are still calming down.

I have no idea what I reacted to -- some kind of pollen, but don't know what. Pollen.com said grass and sorrel/dock were predominant. I don't usually have problems with grass but maybe there's a different variety up there. The worst days were at the beginning of the trip when it was windy. The best were when I was on a boat, visiting Martha's Vineyard one day and taking a canal cruise on another.

I'm already taking 2x the usual dose of Zyrtec plus Zantac every day for the chronic hives. I was going to try adding Flonase but the pharmacist recommended against it because I recently switched to Flovent for my daily inhaler and it uses the same active ingredient. So I took a decongestant instead and used albuterol on and off.

I've never had an allergic asthma reaction like that before, nor have I had such a strong reaction to any pollen. I just kept thinking, I could never live here. Or visit again in the spring or early summer. I'm so tired of coughing!

I hope your move back to Illinois goes well!

[Crankin]

I am sorry you had that, NY. Even though I spent every summer of my life at the Cape, until I was 17, I have noticed that in the past 5 years or so, I get the achy, allergy symptoms when I am there. It's happened enough to make me think it's the mold. I mostly notice it when I go there and ride, which makes sense, as under normal everyday activity levels, I am not breathing in that crap in the same way. I don't notice it if I go to the beach for the day. Last summer, I spent 3 days at a friends' house in Orleans. I was ok hiking in the dunes on a dry day, but when we rode the next morning in pea soup humidity, I could barely breathe or move.

[Pax]

So sorry I missed your post, NY, that just stinks, hope you're feeling better now.

We had wrath of god wind and rain yesterday, it must've stirred something up because I'm tight and gasping again today. Must say, it's getting really tiresome. So glad we have a trip home to IL planned in a couple of weeks.

[emily_in_nc]

Hey Pax, there's no chance you could have mold in your home, is there? Just thinking that mold-induced illness can present as asthma and other respiratory issues, and in Florida, mold is a real possibility. Who knows what's hidden behind the walls and vents, sometimes. Are your symptoms worse indoors or out? Just a thought....

[Pax]

Emily, I expect there's mold in the walls here, and from what I've gathered from talking to my doc and even the HVAC guy, that is the norm rather than the exception. Not out of control black mold, just run of the mill household mold from condensation caused by the AC running nine months out of the year. I breathe best when I'm at the icebox (work), they keep it very cold and it's a newer building with better filtration.

[smilingcat]

Did you consider getting HEPA room filter? It may help collect pollen and spores floating in the room. Here https://smile.amazon.com/Honeywell-17000-S-QuietCare-True-Purifier/dp/B000050AQ5/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467952142&sr=8-4&keywords=room+HEPA+filter

We have two of these. they are bit noisy at the high speed.

[Pax]

Hi SC! We do have one, got it about a month after this started, I credit it with my ability to sleep several hours in a row without waking up gasping.


We go home next weekend (the 17th), seems like options will be much clearer after that. Since the inhalers that are allowing me to breathe are causing my skin to break down (skin tears, small wounds that won't heal), we're now planning for sooner rather than later.

[Crankin]

I hate to hear that your inhalers are making you sicker! But, at least you can be focused when you go to Chicago next week. Hope the trip goes well.

[Pax]

Crankin - I knew it could happen, especially at the dosage levels I'm on, but it is certainly annoying. I enjoy the breathing part, but the open sores become disconcerting, after a time, when they refuse to heal.

I'm hoping we walk into the condo we're looking at and fall in love. It would be the easiest way to make the move and let us get thins show on the road!

[Catrin]

So sorry you've such a reaction to the inhalers Pax :(

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Pax]

Thanks, Catrin. It is such a strange thing, the thing that makes life tolerable, also makes it harder. I guess I'm lucky to live in an age where out of control asthma is moderately fixable, even if the cost is a bit extreme.

[emily_in_nc]

Man, Pax, that really stinks. As if the asthma weren't bad enough! I hope the trip to Illinois is a very successful one and the condo rocks!

[OakLeaf]

Hang in there, Pax. Enjoy your trip and good luck with the condo.

[Pax]

Update:

Just got back to FL from our trip home to Illinois, we looked at some apartments and condos that had me mentally screaming "NO WAY IN HELL!!". I mean who puts their place on the market and leaves it so filthy that prospective buyers are afraid to touch the light switch or counter??

So, we rented our old apartment (exact same unit) in the upscale fancier place... it costs a little more but I guess I've become snobby in my older age, I don't want to live in a dump. We'll be moving back to IL by the end of August.

We're going to rent for the first year while our FL condo sells and then make some decisions about a more permanent place. And after owning a condo for the last two years we're putting freestanding houses back on the list of possibles, the drama here is a bit over the top, I'd prefer not to deal with it again.

[Crankin]

Good decision, Pax. Congrats!

[emily_in_nc]

That's wild that you're going to be in your same apartment! I agree, I'd rather pay more for something a little nicer. I'm too old to live in a total dump.

I also get your idea about possibly going for a single-family home instead of a condo this time around. After living in and/or renting several condos over the past few years, we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we are not condo people. It would take a very special place to get us to try again: no one over top of us and an end unit townhouse would be probably the only way we'd even consider it.

[Pax]

Thanks, Crankin.

Thats where we're at, Emily. Condos are fine if the involved parties have the same basic viewpoint regarding money and behavior, but so far we're finding that to be rather rare. No, I don't think it's a good idea to spend tens of thousands of our reserves on boat docks used by 15 of 75 units, no I'm not thrilled with people giving out their pool and clubhouse keys to local "friends and family" numbering in the 100's to use the facilities night and day. Mostly I think we should all be polite and respectful, keep an eye on "our" property and help out our elderly neighbors... these points we seem to differ on. *sigh*

[Sky King]

As someone who qualifies for the category I can type this, Have you looked at 55 and older neighborhoods :)~ We don't live in one but we do live above our bike shop in a small retail/residential area so am extremely spoiled.

[Pax]

I would definitely look at one if they existed in our town, I like little kids but prefer not to live amongst them. There are areas that appeal to retirees so we'll look there.

[Catrin]

I think it's cool that you're getting back into your old place. Wishing you the best as you consider what might come next. Personally I've never owned, and at this stage in my life I don't see that happening, but I can certainly see the attraction. The next time I move it may well be to a complex that caters to the >55 crowd, I'm certainly there. I find that I appreciate the quiet much more than I once did, though where I currently live is quiet 99% of the time.

[Pax]

We keep looking at the math, trying to decide if we want to bother buying. In our market it's a wash monthly cost wise between owning and renting. The two differing points come from a) in 20 years you'll have good equity, and b) in 20 years you won't have paid a cent for maintenance. So we go back and forth.

[ny biker]

Financially, buying a condo was not a good decision for me. I didn't realize it when I bought 12 years ago but it was a terrible time for me to buy a place. It was such a seller's market, I ended up with a real fixer-upper because I was outbid on everything else. If I'd known how much it was going to cost to renovate I think I would have continued to rent, at least for a few years if not longer. If I tried to sell it now I would end up getting the same price I paid back then. I don't even have all that much equity, due to having to refinance with an FHA loan and mortgage insurance to get rid of the original adjustable rate mortgage.

However there are other reasons why I like owning my place instead of renting. And around here rents do seem to increase significantly from year to year, so maybe owning a fixer-upper is not the worst investment.

It's just a complicated decision.

As for retirement communities, I think I would at least consider living in one at some point. But yes it would have to be quiet -- solidly built like the pre-war apartments where I lived in NY and Chicago (she types after turning up the TV volume to the max to drown out the clomp-clomp-clomp of the elephant upstairs...).

[Crankin]

In my opinion, it's always better to buy, unless you are buying something that is going to require a lot of repairs that can break the bank. And sometimes, you never know what is going to come up, with home ownership. Personally, although I live in a very small, cut-de-sac townhouse development, I don't like having to see my neighbors come and go, knowing their daily routines, etc. I know, it's weird, but after 25 years of living in somewhat secluded neighborhoods, it is different. It's not noisy at all and everyone behaves, but I haven't lived this close to neighbors since I left AZ in 1990. I guess that's why all the houses there have block walls around the backyards. I truly only knew the people on either side of me.

[shootingstar]

I do know a good close friend in her late 70's, who sold her condo about 15 years ago. She's had to move into an apartment about 5 years ago that's cheaper rent and she likes less because she's running out of money... She has been single for most of her life..in so far she never owned real estate jointly with anyone else.

I live in a building that has had children..no more than 1-2 small children since the units are smaller. Probably less than 5 families out of 30 units. So the bldg. itself is reasonably quiet. But then there's only 3 units per floor ...so all I have to "worry" about is upstairs which is very rare that there's much noise.

[Pax]

We watched our 75 year old neighbor get tossed out of the condo she was renting. The owner died and her son put it on the market as fast as he could, so here she is, 75, living on social security, and trying to find an affordable place (subsidized senior places are very rare here). She can't afford to move back to NY, and her daughter is a poor single mom, she can't move in with her because of the subsidy her daughter gets... she is in a terrible spot. She's hoping to find a roommate situation.

That's the sort of thing that gives me pause, we have money now so perhaps owning would keep the wolf from the door as we age. A paid for place and some money in the bank could go a long way towards peace of mind.

[ny biker]

I've rented condos twice and there are definitely aspects of it that I prefer to regular rental apartments. But yes there is always the risk that the owner will want you gone so they can sell. I got the feeling that the last renter of the place above mine had to leave before she wanted, because the place was put on the market just after she left.

I think you're generally right about keeping the wolf from the door. Owning a place seems to give more control over expenses. Of course there will be some things that need to be fixed or replaced, and property taxes can be very high in some areas. But the mortgage doesn't increase like rent does, if you have a fixed rate mortgage.

To Crankin's point, I know when my neighbors come and go and have a general sense of their schedules -- who leaves early for work and when then they typically get home. I know where they're from or where they went to school, from seeing their license plates and car decals. And I see who has dogs and who gets visits from kids who are probably nephews. But I don't know them personally, don't even know what a few of them look like. (I wish I knew which ones are breaking condo policy by putting out garbage at night, because it's getting out of hand. But I digress.)

I can see the benefits of living in a secluded area but I think I would be creaped out at night any time I heard a strange noise.

[Pax]

NY, fortunately for us, home (Central IL where the University of Illinois is) is super affordable, you can still buy a nice home in the $95,000 to $110,000 range, and a newer fancier home in the $135,000 to $165,000 range. We'll be able to pay cash for a place once the FL condo sells; I'd rather have a big fat bank account, but watching it dwindle as we age, and being at the mercy of a landlord's whims doesn't appeal much.

[Crankin]

That is really cheap for nice housing....

[Pax]

That is really cheap for nice housing....

Flyover states (outside of big cities) have some seriously affordable housing. Best kept secret of the Midwest; here it's a combo of a college town and very hard winters, equals a lot of movement in and out of town; tends to keep prices down.

[shootingstar]

To Crankin's point, I know when my neighbors come and go and have a general sense of their schedules -- who leaves early for work and when then they typically get home. I know where they're from or where they went to school, from seeing their license plates and car decals. And I see who has dogs and who gets visits from kids who are probably nephews. But I don't know them personally, don't even know what a few of them look like. (I wish I knew which ones are breaking condo policy by putting out garbage at night, because it's getting out of hand. But I digress.)

I can see the benefits of living in a secluded area but I think I would be creaped out at night any time I heard a strange noise.

I actually don't quite understand a profound desire to live in a secluded/isolated area (ie. single detached home) as one becomes a lot older. ie. living far from people. Unless you make sure you have a dog /security system. It does help to have general distant idea of your neighbours.

I had an employee whose elderly father suffered brain damage after he was beaten by an intruder in his single detached home. The dog prevented further injury... by barking at the intruder..

My partner's daughter's dog also stopped a thief who broke into her apartment suite...

[TrekDianna]

I think that depends where you live. I live in the middle of nowhere and I prefer it that way. I have a clear view of the mountains from my back deck and no noise from the neighbors who are very far away. I live quite a way down a dirt road up a 17% grade hill. People have to be here as a destination. It's also a dead end. Thieves etc don't seem to like dead end roads -- there's only one way out. I feel completely safe here. I don't feel safe at any time of day or night in the city. It's all what you are used to I guess.


I actually don't quite understand a profound desire to live in a secluded/isolated area (ie. single detached home) as one becomes a lot older. ie. living far from people. Unless you make sure you have a dog /security system. It does help to have general distant idea of your neighbours.

I had an employee whose elderly father suffered brain damage after he was beaten by an intruder in his single detached home. The dog prevented further injury... by barking at the intruder..

My partner's daughter's dog also stopped a thief who broke into her apartment suite...

[Crankin]

I wouldn't call where my last house was as isolated. Just a street on a huge hill (which thieves ignore), with houses on 2 acre lots of woods. I could see the houses of both my neighbors, but I was not close. The house before was in a typical cul de sac newer home neighborhood. The lots were also 1.5 to 2 acres, but mostly lawn and not as big as my last house. It was in a more rural suburb than Concord, but neither of these places qualify as isolated or "country" to me. I don't worry about intruders, etc., maybe because the crime rate is low here. Some think it's weird, because there's a medium security prison in my town, but, it's like part of the fabric of life here, it's on the highway, and has been here since the 1800s. There's also a minimum security prison, here, a farm, where prisoners are trained in various trades. This is right behind the hill and conservation trails of my former neighborhood. We could hear the softball games in the prison yard in the summer. Only once do I remember someone breaking out, and they did not run up the hill to escape... so, what Shooting Star mentions is not even in my thoughts in thinking about where I will live as I age. I certainly don't want to live someplace really rural, as we enjoy the amenities of small town life, with being able to walk to restaurants, shops, etc.
But the prices that Pax mentions, well, the last time I saw that was when we sold our house in Tempe, AZ, in 1990. I don't think there is anywhere in MA where you can buy for 95K.

[Pax]

Crankin - my cousins in and around Boston tried to convince my brother and I to move out there for years, but most of them had to move to NH or other far out destination to be able to afford a house. The old family home in Melrose sold for 500k, same house in IL probably 150k. The first house we bough was in 2000 and it was $64,500; however, I think we earn less than people on the coast do? For example, a Masters level therapist in an agency would make mid 50's and in private practice with a full four day client load would make mid 70's.

[Crankin]

Well, generally salaries here are higher in all fields, but what you quoted is different for master's level therapists. First of all, very few clinic/agency jobs are full time salary; they are fee for service jobs at a very low rate of reimbursement. What happened is that we all basically get paid close to the Mass Health rate of reimbursement, since we've had health care for all, starting in 2002. This is way lower than private insurance reimburses. So, a full time 4 day clinician would make a bit less less than 50K. However, private practitioner salaries are way more than 70K, partly because most of them don't even accept insurance, charge between 150 and 300 per session, with some sliding scales. There are enough people here who can pay this and don't want any "record" of seeing a mental health practitioner. I have struggled with this idea. I am too lazy to apply for insurance panels and do the business aspect of a practice. I also feel a little conflicted about charging that much money, kind of unethical. But, everyone does it. There are group practices where I could earn 80-90 per hour and still have someone to do the business work, but for right now, I am sticking with the clinic, as I have a wide variety of people. I did make more money as a teacher, than in AZ, though. It was more that the upper end of the salary scale was much higher. We also had a professional work day, i.e. we didn't have to stay at school after the kids left, which for me, was good, as I got there super early to do my planning. It was just more professional, overall.

[nancyfancy]

Sorry to read all of this!
I have something to say about the asthma. I have a friend who relocated in another city and he started to have asthma problems but when he comes back - everything is ok. I really haven't studied or something what are the pollution level in Florida's air but would advise you to relocate yourself or at least surely go back in your hometown! :( There is nothing worse than not being able to breathe so I wish you with all of my heart fast recovery!