New TE?

[ny biker]

Something's happening at TE. They've created a new house brand. But it looks like they've also cut way back on the brands they carry. Which would mean I would have to find someplace else to buy most of my bike clothes from. :eek:

[Helene2013]

I just took a look and I feel like you. Lucky to have purchased stuff on sale (then) because prices for me (in Cdn) are now way too much. I'll just have to shop someplace else too. :( They only seem to carry now tops and bottoms, and little of it (compared to before).

[OakLeaf]

I wouldn't be so quick to abandon ship. After all, they just sold off as much of their stock as possible in preparation for the move. I'm sure they're in re-stocking mode now. Agreed it's the wrong time of year to be doing that - both in terms of wholesaler supply and customer demand - but no doubt they had more compelling reasons for moving when they did.

Maybe buy what you absolutely need elsewhere, now, and check back at TE in a month or two.

[ny biker]

I thought that at first, Oak, but they're using the phrase "highly curated."

http://www.teamestrogen.com/pages/about-us

[Pax]

Be nice if they popped in for an update. I was looking at some swimming gear (in the old triathlete section) prior to the move, but now there's none listed.

[RedPearlRacing]

As I'm reading it, "highly curated" seems to read a lot like "fits in my spare bedroom". No wool anything, no bras, no triathlon, no outerwear, no unpadded shorts or unpocketed jerseys for us 'bent gals....all of which means that quite a few of us are being left off of the "in comfort and style" bus. The "house brand" jerseys look cute but - so did Sheila Moon's and YMX's. The new mailing address is listed as a PO Box, and there are not regular hours for customer service. This must be really devastating to Susan. She seemed to be proud of being a mover and shaker in the industry and this looks like a huge step back.

[Crankin]

Maybe Susan is sick of it all...

I just hope this forum doesn't go away.

[rebeccaC]

This must be really devastating to Susan. She seemed to be proud of being a mover and shaker in the industry and this looks like a huge step back.

or perhaps she wants more time for other positive things...georgina terry went to a less demanding schedule/work and is still providing a hand built bike service with waterford doing the builds.....both will always be a positive constructive force in women's cycling even if just in a look back.

[OakLeaf]

I don't know that emphasizing one's very own clothing line is a "step back" from reselling other people's. It's a huge step in a different direction.

Maybe it's not a step that all of us here are happy with, considering how much of our gear we've bought from TE over the years ... but maybe it's a sign of Susan's success that we can now buy pretty much all the same things locally, or near-locally, that just simply weren't available except by mail order when she started.

[salsabike]

or perhaps she wants more time for other positive things...georgina terry went to a less demanding schedule/work and is still providing a hand built bike service with waterford doing the builds.....both will always be a positive constructive force in women's cycling even if just in a look back.


I don't know that emphasizing one's very own clothing line is a "step back" from reselling other people's. It's a huge step in a different direction.

Maybe it's not a step that all of us here are happy with, considering how much of our gear we've bought from TE over the years ... but maybe it's a sign of Susan's success that we can now buy pretty much all the same things locally, or near-locally, that just simply weren't available except by mail order when she started.

I very much agree with both of these.

[rebeccaC]

missing your presence salsabike.......

[salsabike]

missing your presence salsabike.......

:) Thanks, girl. I'll be back more in a week or so...

[ny biker]

Just to clarify my original comments, I do wish them well with their new direction. I just already have more short-sleeved jerseys than I need, and after trying many brands of shorts the only ones that are comfortable for me are from Gore, which they're no longer carrying. The things I need are the things they're not selling anymore. Much of it is actually not available at local stores -- I'll probably have to drive an hour or more to find a store that carries Gore products, and for much of the rest I'll have to find a new mail order company. Given TE's amazing customer service, there's little chance the new mail order sources will be nearly as good. I will miss the happy feeling I always got when the email arrived from TE telling me that my order has been shipped.

[salsabike]

Just to clarify my original comments, I do wish them well with their new direction. I just already have more short-sleeved jerseys than I need, and after trying many brands of shorts the only ones that are comfortable for me are from Gore, which they're no longer carrying. The things I need are the things they're not selling anymore. Much of it is actually not available at local stores -- I'll probably have to drive an hour or more to find a store that carries Gore products, and for much of the rest I'll have to find a new mail order company. Given TE's amazing customer service, there's little chance the new mail order sources will be nearly as good. I will miss the happy feeling I always got when the email arrived from TE telling me that my order has been shipped.

Yep, understand this too, nybiker, and I will miss that as well.

[Pax]

TE means a lot to so many of us, so I just emailed them and asked if someone could pop in and give us an update. I know we all love TE and want to keep shopping there, so here's hoping!!

[Susan Otcenas]

Hi All,

Thanks, Pax, for dropping me a note and asking me to chime in.

There are many many ways I could answer the questions all of you have posted above. The natural tendency for a business person is to answer to questions like this in the most positive light, but I'd be lying to you if I did that. The truth of the matter is that not all is rainbows and sunshine these days, so I'll just give it to you straight.

TE has been around for just shy of 18 years. (I like to joke that I have a lot more gray hair now than at 28 and that Jeff just had a lot more hair then period. ;-) ) But the past 3-4 years we have seen a sea change in retail. It's become ever harder to be a small business online. And we are small. At our peak, we had 11 people, myself and Jeff included. We did a fair amount of business with 11 folks, but we were nonetheless still a pretty small company.

Once upon a time we thrived because of all the reasons you mention above. Huge selection (over 100 brands), great customer service, selections in swim, bike, run, etc. But the industry has changed and quite frankly, consumer expectations have changed. As a small company, we simply can NOT do what the big companies do. (Most) consumers want discounts all the time (and there's no shortage of discounters online), they want free shipping and they want it delivered tomorrow. They want to wear it and then return it and still get their money back. They want customer service people to be available 24/7 and they want them to know everything there is to know about the product.

But as a small company, we simply can't give discounts everyday to everyone, give fast free shipping, provide free returns, accept for return apparel that has been worn (which vendors won't take back from us) AND still afford to pay for all those excellent staff people to be here and be knowledgeable and still turn a profit. And as unpopular as it may be in today's world to say so, I'm not running a business to lose money. I simply can't. I need to make a living too, and all those forces mentioned above have made it ever more difficult to do that.

Big companies like Amazon (or REI or Performance) and the discounters like Left Lane and The Clymb, have squeezed companies like ours ever more tightly, and quite frankly, most of our vendors have facilitated that to some extent. Our vendors want huge preseason commitments from us, but then go to closeout to the big guys only half way through the season. Discounting is rampant and few vendors are doing a good job enforcing MAP (minimum advertised price) Our own vendors sell direct to consumer and offer all sorts of incentives, which they can do because they have the gross margin that we don't. Amazon is a scourge, and has trained consumers to only pay attention to price. Amazon and the rest get ginormous discounts from Fedex and UPS and heck, Amazon practically owns the postal service at this point. All that fast free shipping they offer costs them way less than it costs for a small company like TE. We can't compete with that.

Every item we sold resided in our warehouse. My staff was fantastic. Everything was checked to make sure that all the product features were accurately described on the website (you'd be *amazed* at how much product data is simply wrong on Amazon), we did nearly all our own photography, you could call in and talk to Renata or Edna or any of the other gals and they would grab product from the warehouse and measure anything you wanted, from sleeve length to leg gripper. Amazon doesn't do that. Performance certainly doesn't. But in the end, it didn't seem to matter how awesome my staff was, how wide our selection was, or how much we knew about what we sold. Without the discounts and the free shipping and all the rest, customers started going away, and in the last year or so, that trend really accelerated.

It's a really difficult (and somewhat depressing) thing for a business owner to watch what they have built over 16-17-18 years wither away. So many years of hard work. But the truth is, at some point, you have to adapt or die. What we could not do was to continue to do what we'd always done, because that wasn't working anymore.

In those circumstances, a business owner has three choices.
1) Sell
2) Shut it down
3) Do something different

Selling into a down market is really hard. A company with declining revenues, in an industry that is seeing shops close all over the country, and participant numbers falling... well, you can imagine that buyers were not beating down our doors for the opportunity. The offers we did get were unacceptable. (Both in dollars, and if I'm being totally honest, to my ego.)

Shutting it down was a very real possibility, and we came really really close to going down that path. REALLY CLOSE. But it's hard to do something for as long as we have and just let it all go, to just walk away. It feels like admitting defeat.

So, in the end, we took a hard look at what we do well, what sells well, where we can compete, and perhaps most importantly, what we ENJOY doing. (cuz if it ain't fun anymore, then what the heck is the point?)

We came to the conclusion that we simply can no longer sell what everyone else is selling because there is not enough margin in it for us to survive. So, we have shrunk our business way down. We are concentrating on bottoms from the best brands, and the styles that are the ones that 80%of our customers were buying anyway. These products are the best; they fit well, the return rates are low, and our vendors support them with good availability. We also have excellent relationships with them, and they work hard to combat rampant discounting so that their retailers can survive.

As for tops, we decided to concentrate in just a few area: exclusive prints from a small number of vendors, and our own new brand, called Doyenne. http://doyenne.com/ Doyenne is our brainchild, and it's where Jeff and I can find the fun again. We love designing these prints, and we get to do them in regular AND plus sizes. And again, in the interest of being straight up with all of you, selling our own brand means we do not have to compete with discounters all over the internet. The designs are ours, and if you want to buy them you have to buy them from us. We hope our customers will find them fun and interesting, and will support the new endeavor.

Lastly, we are maintaining our strong focus on plus sizes. Plus has always been an important part of our business, and this customer is underserved. We want to do an outstanding job here, so we are carrying as much in-line from our vendors as we can (Shebeest, Canari) as well as producing our own via Doyenne.

So, that's where we stand. We are a much smaller company with a much more tightly focused line (We do have more product coming in March and April, but nothing near to the breadth we used to have). We've moved our office, relaunched a new website (getting us away from maintaining all of our own servers), and will be utilizing 3rd party warehousing for fast shipping and to try to bring down our shipping costs so that we can offer every day free shipping (no minimums now!). This next year will be telling. Either enough folks will find what we are offering compelling...or they won't.

I sincerely hope that some of you will still find something of value here at TE. But we certainly understand that many of you will go elsewhere. Please know that Jeff and I are grateful beyond words for the love and support you ladies have shown us over the years. I'm truly sorry we can't be what we always were anymore. I have shed my share of tears over this, but for me, and for TE, it's time for us to start a new chapter.

Love to you all,

Susan

[wnyrider]

It is very tough out there and I applaud your courage in trying to adapt to the changing commerce. Best of luck. Eyeballing your Day of the Dead Jersey on another open tab! I appreciate having had the availability of this forum too. Will keep my fingers crossed for Team Estrogen.

[Pax]

Wow, Susan, just wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your journey. it reminds me of what the heart of this place is all about. And as one of those plus sized, a big thank you for thinking of us.

[Crankin]

It sounds like a good plan, Susan. It must be really hard to run a small business, so changing with the times is a good thing.

[IBrakeforPastry]

Hi Susan, nice to "meet" you. Thank you for taking the time to write such an informative and honest reply. I wish you the best of luck.

[Catrin]

Oh my Susan, such a lot the two of you have been going through! Thank you for sharing with us as much as you have, wishing you the very best in all things!

[OakLeaf]

Oh. Wow. Thank you Susan for opening your heart to us - and thank you for keeping this forum online through all that, too. Scary times. Kudos to you for re-visioning TE, and best of wishes in the new venture.

(Any chance of getting some of those prints in running/gym style jerseys [crew or V neck, pocketless]??)

[Susan Otcenas]

(Any chance of getting some of those prints in running/gym style jerseys [crew or V neck, pocketless]??)

No, I'm afraid not. Even though we carried a fair bit of non-cycling apparel before, we just never sold all that much of it. (That is, in any given style, we rarely sold enough units to cover all the costs involved in carrying it, like creating it on the website, photography, etc. ) We've always been strongest in the pure cycling styles and that is where we need to focus our energies right now.

Thanks for the good wishes.

Susan

[salsabike]

I already have my eye on one of the Doyenne jerseys...http://doyenne.com/jerseys/tomomi

I will be buying that one as soon as it becomes available. I think it's a stunner, and not like anything I can get anywhere else.

And I think this is such a smart plan, Susan. I'm glad you're doing it.

[Helene2013]

Thank you for being so opened and honest with us. You did not have to open up this much and you did.

It is a wild world out there and it must so hard to keep up and try to please everyone. Kudos to what every one said and good luck in this change of direction. Sometime, some one has to do what has to be done.

[shootingstar]

Thx for letting us know on the latest Susan. My best wishes for ongoing healthy business.

I also appreciate as a long time forum participant here, for providing us server space to host this forum of women cycling enthusiasts. I've met several TE forumite participants here.

[Crankin]

I was thinking the same thing, Shooting Star. Not only have I spent time riding with other local TEers, but I have met a lot of you while traveling or when you traveled to Boston.
And, in conversation I often find myself saying something like, "Oh, yes, I have a friend who (fill in the blank)," when it is really someone from TE, whom I have never met.

[emily_in_nc]

Wow, this is a big change. I will miss the "old" TE but totally understand Susan needing to do what she can to stay in business and keep it fun and real. The new jerseys are GORGEOUS but a bit out of my price range. I suspect they'll do well, though, as they are certainly unique, artistic, and very special.

Thanks, NY Biker, for bringing this to our attention. I haven't shopped for bike gear for awhile (and the last time I did, it was for several pairs of shorts from TE, a couple of years ago!) so who knows when I would have noticed this otherwise?

[Sky King]

Way to go SUSAN AND JEFF!!

This so resonates with Jim (the Bike Hermit) and me. When people ask us about bike apparel, your site is one we send them to. Stay true to the niche you know and love. Carry fun items that most of us can't find locally. Provide customer service and promote loyalty. Most of all love what you do. Small isn't a bad word :)

[rebeccaC]

There can be lots of emotions in downsizing a business especially when you may lose some good people because of it. It’s a process that needs your thoughtful and determined leadership in rebuilding and moving into the future though.
Hoping the re-evaluation of your business plan places you in a better competitive position for the future and back on the road to financial health and stability.

peace be with you Susan

[ny biker]

And, in conversation I often find myself saying something like, "Oh, yes, I have a friend who (fill in the blank)," when it is really someone from TE, whom I have never met.

This is me ALL THE TIME.

Thank you for letting us know what's been going on, Susan. I suspected that there were some market forces at work. I will say that I used to work in direct marketing and I studied it in grad school, and I ended up with what some people tell me are ridiculously high expectations when it comes to customer service. And TE is far and away the best company I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with. I am truly impressed by the things you have been able to accomplish.

And despite the fact that I really don't need any more short-sleeved jerseys, I notice that you have one that's blue and orange -- and I want it. I think I know what I'll be giving myself for my birthday...

[azfiddle]

Susan,

I truly appreciate that you were willing to share so much here with us about the tough decision you had to make. I hope that you can continue you to make the business end of TE work for you. The forum is a special place and you and your staff have been amazing when I have made purchases (probably too few....)

[lauraelmore1033]

Oh my! put me down for a Gaia Plus jersey when they are available! I appreciate the plus size focus. I will be in the market for a new pair of the shebeest capris soon.

[Geonz]

What they said! Thanks for being up front ... ...

[Pax]

As a "just in case" measure, if Susan decides to stop paying for this lovely TE forum, I created an FB group so we'd have a place to touch base. I sincerely hope we get to keep the forum, but I understand the fact that it isn't free.

If anyone wants in at any time, I made it a closed group and called it "After TE". Hope it never gets used, but you just never know.

[ZoneFive]

Thanks, Pax. I'm pretty new to the forum, but I really appreciate a place I can ask questions and not feel foolish, and know I'm with my own people. It's good to know that there will still be a place to find this.

[OakLeaf]

Thanks, Pax.


Susan ... totally understood on the running apparel. I didn't start running until just a few years ago, but as long as I've been running, women's apparel has been easily available at the LRS, where the same hasn't always been true at the LBS. Still ... what has not been available, for women or men, is running apparel in PRINTS. It's all boring solids, or at best solids accented with contrasting solids. Given the popularity of wild colored shoes lately, I'm thinking that runners are super hungry for some color in our wardrobe. Hopefully when!! (not if) it's time to expand your line, you'll consider branching in that direction.

[Catrin]

Nice idea Pax! It's good to have alternatives but hopefully this forum can stay around.

[emily_in_nc]

Thanks Pax! I will join now in case TE just goes "poof" one day, without warning. I don't think Susan would do that, but in case I miss an announcement in my travels, it will be comforting to know I won't lose all of you good folks! :D

ETA: I can't find the group! Searched for "After TE" (w/o quotes) in FB and in Google "Facebook group After TE", but nothing. Could you provide a direct link, Pax?

[Pax]

Try this, Emily, https://m.facebook.com/groups/196572037378428?ref=bookmarks if that doesn't work I'll open the group to make it more "findable".

[Pax]

I opened the group, if we end up using it much I can always close it if people prefer. Also, I don't know anyone's real name so feel free to say who you are here when you join.

[Catrin]

I followed the link and it opened up in a strange way, but it opened! I submitted a join request. Even if we don't do much with it, it is a nice alternative way to connect, kind of the best of both worlds.

[Pax]

I followed the link and it opened up in a strange way, but it opened! I submitted a join request. Even if we don't do much with it, it is a nice alternative way to connect, kind of the best of both worlds.

My thought as well. Sometimes forums glitch out and having a place to connect will be nice.

[Trek420]

As a "just in case" measure, if Susan decides to stop paying for this lovely TE forum, I created an FB group so we'd have a place to touch base. I sincerely hope we get to keep the forum, but I understand the fact that it isn't free.

If anyone wants in at any time, I made it a closed group and called it "After TE". Hope it never gets used, but you just never know.

Long live TE! I occasionally try to recruit to TE, mostly from Reddit. Hope we get new folks here to talk and of course shop!

Other options include meeting on TE's FB itself to keep discussion and shopping going. We'd be nice, Susan.

[Crankin]

I would not want to share what I share here on TE's FB page (which I already get). Fine to talk about clothing, though.
I did a join request; I belong to a few other groups, but for the life of me, I can't remember if I have to wait to post a comment, because there seems to be no way for me to do that now.

[rebeccaC]

I followed the link and it opened up in a strange way, but it opened!

yeah...Pax, it looks like you gave a bookmark link in your post instead of a www.facebook page link which i assume would work better with Facebook

[Catrin]

It worked fine after Pax approved me.

[rebeccaC]

It worked fine after Pax approved me.

good

and in case this site does disappear i'll say this now :)

light and love

au revoir

[wnyrider]

I haven't joined facebook yet. Plan to do so soon. Hoping this forum stays active in the meantime. But, in the case it just disappears and I lose touch with everybody, I have to finally ask a question. Whatever happened to Maidei?

[Helene2013]

Hey. Wait a minute. Who said this forum was at his last breath. :p

I'm sure if it got to this, Susan or someone would come and say something. We can't let allll of this good information from all those discussions on various threads go down the drain like this.

I'm hopeful that nothing will change in the short-mid future. Right Susan? :)

[Pax]

Don't think we have anything at all to be concerned about, I just made the FB group as a place holder. I've been on forums that had long outages, and a couple that ended and we had nowhere to meet up... so, nothing sinister, nothing bad on the horizon, just an alternative if needed.

[OakLeaf]

Whatever happened to Maidei?

Last I heard she was still with BikeChick - no one was interested in taking her next.

[emily_in_nc]

Okay, I sent a join request. You may get a couple from me, Pax, as the link you provided was for the mobile site, which I don't use (I'm on a laptop), so when I went to it and clicked on "join", I got no acknowledgement that a request to join had gone through. Once I went to the non-mobile site (i.e., remove the "m" before facebook.com in the URL), I could see that I was in a pending status.

I hope this forum is around for a good long time, but it's good to have an alternative just in case!

[crazycanuckoz]

Just logging in to say thank you Susan for providing us overseas folks the opportunity to purchase items unavailable in our country of residence. Although I don't venture round on two wheels anymore(bike in storage overseas) I do runrunrun & think of the TE folk that encouraged me over the years, met & appreciate. I don't use FB at all as I meander & prefer old fashioned email..

Thanks again
c

[administrator]

Just a quick note to let everyone know that the we have no plans to discontinue the forums, and if that day ever did come, we would consult with the forums members to establish some sort of ongoing board or trust to manage the TE forums as an independent entity. So, no worries! :-)

[Pax]

Just a quick note to let everyone know that the we have no plans to discontinue the forums, and if that day ever did come, we would consult with the forums members to establish some sort of ongoing board or trust to manage the TE forums as an independent entity. So, no worries! :-)

Wonderful!!!

[VeganBikeChick]

Yay!

[Catrin]

Excellent, thanks for the update!

[ny biker]

[Bump]

I just sent a join request to the facebook group that Pax created. Btw I don't think we've heard from Pax in a while - I hope all is well.

[Pax]

All is well with me and mine, just sold the FL condo and have been dealing with the frigid return to IL. :D

I've seen several recent requests to join the FB group, all have been approved, please pop in and post a note letting everyone know who you are.

[Catrin]

All is well with me and mine, just sold the FL condo and have been dealing with the frigid return to IL. :D

I've seen several recent requests to join the FB group, all have been approved, please pop in and post a note letting everyone know who you are.

I didn't see those requests, thanks Pax! Both of us can approve members, so one of us should see those.

[emily_in_nc]

Oh great, Pax! I missed that you had sold the condo. Great -- but a rough time to be moving back to Illinois. I'm freezing even here in Florida now!

Hope all goes smoothly for you with the move.

[shootingstar]

I don't use FB..should I for Teamestrogen chat?

Hope all is well Pax.

[Pax]

Thanks, Emily. We got home and moved into our new apartment two days before Christmas... it was -10 the other night, quite a shock to the system!!

Shootingstar - it's a very quiet Facebook group, I just started it to give us all a meeting place when TE goes down, or if it gets shut off.

[Crankin]

I am really glad, we have it, though.

[emily_in_nc]

I am really glad, we have it, though.

Ditto! :)