My new Ruby comp disc - welcome home!

[azfiddle]

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1697/24581804192_c33c7cd2ff_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DsdaYd)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/DsdaYd) by Sharon Goldwasser (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133571926@N02/), on Flickr

And being given the once over by the inspection team- Rory (from Irish: red king) and Bran (from Welsh: raven)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1583/24606068271_d298174eca_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DumwQp)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/DumwQp) by Sharon Goldwasser (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133571926@N02/), on Flickr

[salsabike]

I think that bike is quite beautiful. Also, love the cats and their names. :)

[Pax]

That bike is just all kinds of spiffy!

[azfiddle]

Salsa Bike, the inspiration for naming the cats comes from playing Irish music, and from my daughter's significant other who is a Welsh scholar

[salsabike]

Salsa Bike, the inspiration for naming the cats comes from playing Irish music, and from my daughter's significant other who is a Welsh scholar

Of course! By the way, I keep meaning to show you some bird pics from Wales...

[Nandy]

I don't mean to be a bummer, but that looks like it has wicked toe overlap. I wish there were more non-700c production options for those of us on the smaller end, there are just so many fit compromises to accommodate those disproportionate wheels. As long as you're happy though, that's all that matters. Congrats!

[azfiddle]

Nandy, this bike is replacing a Ruby comp (stolen) that I rode for nearly 5 years and almost 25,000 miles - same size- 44 cm with 700c wheels. I never had a problem with toe overlap so it should be fine. Of all the bikes I tried in 2011 and this year, it fits me best.

[azfiddle]

Yes, please show me pictures from Wales!!1

[Crankin]

Congrats, AZ. I've never had toe overlap, either, and I've had 3 47 cm bikes with 700c wheels.

[Blueberry]

Congratulations! She's beautiful - as are the kitties! May you have many happy miles together!

[IBrakeforPastry]

Purrty! ;) I wish you many happy miles!

[OakLeaf]

Very nice!

[Eden]

Nice bike - I'm also on my 2nd 44cm Specialized bike with 700c wheels - no toe overlap and they've both been a better fit than my 650c wheel bike, nor do I notice any handling problems.

[emily_in_nc]

What a beautiful bike -- it is actually a work of art! Enjoy!

[Catrin]

Beautiful - as are the kitties! Have fun with both - and I love the disc brakes!

[Nandy]

http://http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/700-compromises.html

Just some good reading on smaller bikes, if anyone's interested. There are compromises, it can just be hard to realize it if you've never had the opportunity to ride a proportional bike, because the big names have been pushing 700s on everyone for so long just to save on production costs. I usually ride about a 47, and I'm getting 24" wheels on my next custom bike.

http://http://www.rodbikes.com/articles/web_articles/toeoverlap.html, and more reading on the subject.

[ny biker]

Very nice! May you enjoy many happy miles together!!

(The handlebars look very tilted -- do you find them comfortable that way?)

[Crankin]

Nandy, I had 2 bikes with 650 wheels, before the ones with 700s and I honestly don't see any difference. I think the geometry of the frame makes a difference, too. My custom Guru has 700 wheels, so it wasn't any company pushing something on me. Also, I think there's a range of standover heights, even for people of the same height, as well as foot size. I have small feet and longer legs than a lot of others who are 5' 1." I am not pro or against either, but it was just a pain to get the tubes/tires I wanted for 650s and now that I use Gatorskins on both of my bikes, I am not even sure that would be an option.

[Eden]

Nandy - I live in Seattle where Rodriguez bikes is. He's a 650 evangelist… He tries to put everyone on the things, even people who are fairly tall. You think we've drunk the cool aid, well yours is just a different flavor. Some of us are actually built right for the way small bikes with bigger wheels fit. I'm also like Crankin. I've small feet and proportionally longer legs for my height. I've never had issues with stand over - not even in the bad old days when bikes had straight top tubes and the smallest thing available was equivalent to todays 49cm. If they work for you, that's great, but not every smaller person suffers if they don't have them.

I have and have used both wheel sizes. In my basement I currently have a 650 ti bike that I use as my all weather commuter and a nice carbon Amira that is has 700c wheels. Neither is any more or less comfortable than the other and neither handles much different from the other. Granted there are too many differences to attribute it to just one thing, but I have ridden both with a power meter and can definitely generate more power with the position I have on the Specialized than on the ti bike. It is a pain in the rear to get rims, tubes and especially tires, these days for the 650 wheel set - the choices are very limited and unless I have the time to special order and wait sometimes months, I usually end up with whatever is available rather than having a choice and even if I wait the choices are very limited. I have 0, zip, no toe overlap on my 700c bike. If you want to get ironic, the bike I have with the smallest wheels is the only one that I have toe overlap on - it's a kid sized cross bike that has 24" wheels. I can't put a front fender on that one as it hits my foot with even a very slight turn of the front wheel.

As far as handling goes - I don't get the shimmies and I don't think my bikes feel twitchy. I have short arms, so I do have a fairly short stem - that goes for both the 650 and 700c bikes, *but*, I've certainly never ever had any problems keeping enough weight on the front wheel, so I don't have any squirrely handling. If anything, just because of my body shape and proportions I don't have as much weight as I'd like on the rear wheel.

[azfiddle]

Thanks for sharing thoughts on this bike and others.

A couple things- NY biker- I did not notice the bars being tilted. Either the photo angle is odd or I am comfortable with the set up.

Nandy, I couldn't access the link you posted. This bike feels comfortable- and so did my previous Ruby and I've done rides up to 210k. I also have small feet and longer legs and a really short torso. Maybe there is a custom bike out there that would be even better, but the 2011 Ruby was all I could afford and the insurance covered the replacement.

I took her out for 48 miles Saturday with lots of climbing, and 40 miles today (mostly flat) and I'm still happy. I might even learn to like the Ruby saddle but not I'm not completely sold yet - I had an Oura before.

[Crankin]

It took me a good 2 months to get used to the Oura. My sitz bones basically were killing me. Basically, I never had another issue with soft tissue pain, though, and suddenly, after the first 2 months passed, my butt got used to the saddle.

[azfiddle]

I had the Oura on the old bike Crankin- now I have a Ruby saddle, which has less padding. On my first Ruby bike I had to get rid of the Lithia saddle immediately due to soft tissue pressure- I had been using the Jett. I'll give it a little more time before I decide if I need to go back to the Oura.

[Nandy]

Nandy - I live in Seattle where Rodriguez bikes is. He's a 650 evangelist… He tries to put everyone on the things, even people who are fairly tall. You think we've drunk the cool aid, well yours is just a different flavor. Some of us are actually built right for the way small bikes with bigger wheels fit. I'm also like Crankin. I've small feet and proportionally longer legs for my height. I've never had issues with stand over - not even in the bad old days when bikes had straight top tubes and the smallest thing available was equivalent to todays 49cm. If they work for you, that's great, but not every smaller person suffers if they don't have them.

I have and have used both wheel sizes. In my basement I currently have a 650 ti bike that I use as my all weather commuter and a nice carbon Amira that is has 700c wheels. Neither is any more or less comfortable than the other and neither handles much different from the other. Granted there are too many differences to attribute it to just one thing, but I have ridden both with a power meter and can definitely generate more power with the position I have on the Specialized than on the ti bike. It is a pain in the rear to get rims, tubes and especially tires, these days for the 650 wheel set - the choices are very limited and unless I have the time to special order and wait sometimes months, I usually end up with whatever is available rather than having a choice and even if I wait the choices are very limited. I have 0, zip, no toe overlap on my 700c bike. If you want to get ironic, the bike I have with the smallest wheels is the only one that I have toe overlap on - it's a kid sized cross bike that has 24" wheels. I can't put a front fender on that one as it hits my foot with even a very slight turn of the front wheel.

As far as handling goes - I don't get the shimmies and I don't think my bikes feel twitchy. I have short arms, so I do have a fairly short stem - that goes for both the 650 and 700c bikes, *but*, I've certainly never ever had any problems keeping enough weight on the front wheel, so I don't have any squirrely handling. If anything, just because of my body shape and proportions I don't have as much weight as I'd like on the rear wheel.

Rodriguez doesn't have unusual opinions, they just write them down better than most, backed up with good data and anecdotes (like, "a lot of small 700c bikes get returned to us for fit and handling problems"). They've been in the industry and making bikes for a long time, and they do repeatedly emphasize that they'll make small bikes in whatever wheel size someone wants. Personally, I love older bikes with flat top tubes, like Terry style bikes. I like to be able to have the same ride quality 5'10" people get, and it doesn't feel like I'm steering a truck and small wheels save tons of weight. You're right 650c isn't a huge difference, only 8%, but it does help. Here's my bike next to my husband's (if the photo upload works). My tt is pretty much at the height of his 700cs, if my bike had those wheels the tt would be at a ridiculous angle and give me back pain. 650cs give my bike normal proportions. I'm not totally against 700cs, ease of availability is definitely an important factor, I'm just surprised at how much hate I'm getting for it. Is this the official Specialized fanclub or something? No discussion allowed? Sorry, I must be drowning in koolaid, all my lived experience is irrelevant. Real welcoming forum here... 17954 17955 That old Olmo has 24" wheels, and looks really really good!

[azfiddle]

Nandy,

Internet forums are notoriously difficult avenues for communication some times, and I hope you continue to visit and share your experience and ideas. I think everyone was sharing their own experiences and even though that might not be the experience you've had.

In this case, several posters have noted that production small frame bikes with 700 wheels have worked for them. The Specialized Ruby works for me, but Trek, Giant and Cannondale bikes were not as good a fit for my size, proportions and the type of riding I do. After 5 years and 25,000 miles of feeling comfortable and happy on a Ruby, I still tried the other bikes and they didn't work for me as well. I also never had a problem with toe overlap or handling. I bought the bikes I could afford, and they've served me well.

[ny biker]

There are other threads here where people talk about having toe overlap and whether or not it causes problems for them. Ultimately bike fit is just a personal thing, so the problems and solutions for one person might not be problems or solutions for others.

Years ago I had problems with hand pain with my old road bike. I thought I needed different gloves but couldn't find any with padding in the spot that hurt. Then one day I went in for a new saddle fitting and the LBS fit guy watched me pedal for a minute on the indoor trainer, then walked over and adjusted the tilt on my handlebars. And just like that my hand problems were solved. Now I can ride without any gloves. That's the reason I noticed your handlebars, AZ, but as long as they're comfortable for you that's all that matters.

Last month a guy in my club was telling me about the retul fitting he had done. He's using the data to set up a new bike now. It sounded pretty impressive.

[Eden]

There are compromises, it can just be hard to realize it if you've never had the opportunity to ride a proportional bike, because the big names have been pushing 700s on everyone for so long just to save on production costs.

Sorry, but look, I just find this and your first post (you poor thing with all of your terrible toe overlap….) extremely patronizing, as if the OP and other folks here who don't think 650's are the only option are just dummies who need a pat on the head and a lesson because we don't know any better….. Maybe you didn't mean to come across like that, but it's how I "heard" it and that's what I'm reacting to. I did not hear anything as innocuous as you like your 650c wheel bike and that it's an option.

I've decades of riding and many 100's of thousand of miles in on a variety of bikes and I've heard often enough that I MUST have 650's or I'm making a terrible compromise and I'm just stupid to not realize it. Bike fit is so individual. Great that it works for you, but lots of us have tried out, ridden and even own all sorts of bikes. I don't feel like big companies have PUSHED 700c wheels on me, but rather that they've given me the opportunity to have a bike that fits and handles well that uses them.

I own and ride a bike built around 650's and one built around 700's. Both have been professional fit to me. I've ridden them consistently and for long distances. I'm not talking about a comparison based on a test ride on hastily fit floor model or other people's opinions of whether or not my geometry can possibly work. I have real world experience and can compare the two objectively for myself and from that experience I can say that for my body type, it is not a compromise to have larger wheels on my smaller bike.

[rebeccaC]

beautiful bike azfiddle!!!! and you didn't even have to wait too long to have a new bike for mt lemmon :)



Internet forums are notoriously difficult avenues for communication some times, and I hope you continue to visit and share your experience and ideas. I think everyone was sharing their own experiences and even though that might not be the experience you've had.
+1….plus I like your spirit nandy :)

…..and in most cases caution and common sense are all that is required to deal with some toe overlap.

A good framebuilder, like rodriguez or another seattle builder bill davidson, will design a frame to place the rider in a position where they can pedal with maximum efficiency and to handle in the best possible way. If the result of that design is toe overlap then a person just needs to learn how to deal with it in tight turns……so I’d say it’s neither a design fault on a well fitted frame nor a problem.......well and maybe needing more concentration on a fixie :)

[pll]

I'm just surprised at how much hate I'm getting for it.

I was reading this thread and I will second Eden that you came across as patronizing. There are many women in this forum who ride many thousands of miles per year and race, have various custom bikes and, like Eden, can judge for themselves what works and doesn't. Fit is very personal and what works well for you might not work for others.

[Nandy]

Fit is a personal thing, but math is math. If I had a dime for every time some tall bike bro patronizes me with "but have you tried 700c bikes? Why do you have to be so picky and prefer comfortable, proportional bikes? Think of the big brand's profit margins", I could actually afford all these custom bikes, though I'd much rather have some quality production options. Loads of women are talking about this (here's just one I read today: http://bicycletimesmag.com/opinion-if-the-sock-fits/), and I was hoping there'd be a little bit of conversation about this on a women's centered forum, but I guess not. I'm no stranger to unfriendly forums, but I don't feel like this place is a good fit anyway - like modern bike marketing! Ha. Anyway, I probably won't be back unless I get really bored in a few weeks, so I'd say "see you around", but I probably won't because there doesn't seem to be any active members within 500 miles of my home. Peace.

[IBrakeforPastry]

I'm actually just down the Thruway from you.

Quite frankly, I would love a good discussion on wheel size. I just think it should be its own thread. azfiddle got a new bike and wanted to share the good news with everyone. I'm pretty sure we would all like to wish her well with it.

[emily_in_nc]

Quite frankly, I would love a good discussion on wheel size. I just think it should be its own thread. azfiddle got a new bike and wanted to share the good news with everyone. I'm pretty sure we would all like to wish her well with it.

^^^^ What she said. I don't think the problem was as much with the topic you brought up, Nandy, as where you brought it up. We like to support one another here. I for one am a big proponent of smaller wheels (I've owned a 650c bike and a Terry with 24" front wheel in the past and currently have a 20" wheeled Bike Friday) and no toe overlap, as I'm a petite gal and have had some near falls from toe overlap in the past. But this was just not the thread for it. Let's not criticize each other's choices because we're all different!

[azfiddle]

Yup, I was just sharing the news about my bike. I'd be happy to see the discussion about the wheel size and frames on another thread. Not that I mind the topic but the thread kind of got hijacked here....The bike isn't new anymore- we've gone 300 plus miles together so it's time to move on.

[wnyrider]

....The bike isn't new anymore- we've gone 300 plus miles together...
I am curious azfiddle, now that you do have the hundred of miles of experience on this new bike-- how do the disc brakes feel compared to the stolen Ruby's rim brakes? Do you feel any difference?

[azfiddle]

wnyrider-

I noticed they really gripped quickly - but no accidents or close calls because I was really paying attention to not stop too abruptly.

The big aha moment came when I got back onto the Surly to go for groceries and got to the first stop sign and thought to myself, the brakes aren't working!

So yes, I adjusted to them right away and don't think about it, but when I went back to the other bike I immediately felt the difference. I would have been happy with rim brakes but now I really appreciate the discs.

[Owlie]

I've been gone for a while. Congrats on the new(ish) bike! She's pretty.

(Also, sorry about your stolen Ruby!)

[azfiddle]

Thanks Owlie... yeah, it was sad to lose the blue one. How's school? Are you nearly finished?

[wnyrider]

Thanks for the good, descriptive reply.

[Owlie]

Thanks Owlie... yeah, it was sad to lose the blue one. How's school? Are you nearly finished?

I'm about half-way. I passed my comprehensive exams in November, so that officially makes me a PhD candidate rather than just a grad student. :D

Haven't been riding much, unfortunately. School/work has been eating what little spare time I have. Cross bike needs a new saddle too (road bike is at BF's place, awaiting a tune-up and a good clean.)