Who has the right of way where trails meet roads? It depends

[kajero]

I know this for Minnesota, but I think it might apply to a lot of other trails and road
intersections

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2015/10/who-has-right-way-where-trails-meet-roads-it-depends?fb_action_ids=10153690995168817&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.VhaLIjQb4es

kajero

[rebeccaC]

i always stop or slow down and proceed only when it's safe no matter the intersection so i don't have to worry about who has the right of way. Being legally right but in the hospital isn't something i need. There are lots of ways to get involved in an accident but being overly cautious can sometimes help in avoiding one...at least that has worked so far for me

[kajero]

You are so right. I don't really understand the issue anyway. I always stop when I need to and even when I don't need to!

[rebeccaC]

some people take chances and make it through an intersection and some don't.....those that don't are the ones who need or are caught with the legal part after the incident. A little common sense, positivity and patience can lessen it being an issue for bicyclists or pedestrians.....and then there are those bicyclists, pedestrians and car drivers who are just negative, have no patience and of course there are also those darwin award people in the mix, all making the point of just being cautious
i do like the 'this crossing is not a crosswalk' sign though, especially for those who don't think too much about it. I'm a big believer in good signage!

[OakLeaf]

Just because you're willing to stop, doesn't make it "not an issue."

I've spent in total, literally hours of my life arguing with motorists who absolutely refuse to cross a crossing while I'm anywhere near it. Even when I'm not a pedestrian. Even though I have a stop sign and they don't. Even though I'm not in the "crosswalk," only near it, or nowhere near anything that remotely resembles a crosswalk, but just waiting to cross the road. Without exaggeration, more than once I've turned around, started to proceed the other direction, and still had to wait one or two minutes being berated by a motorist for refusing to cross the street in front of someone who's just randomly stopped. If they've hallucinated a stop sign, how do I know when that hallucination might disappear? ;)

It's hugely frustrating and it's going to get someone killed someday, when they're part of a rear-end chain reaction involving one of these drivers who just stops randomly. I would definitely appreciate a "Not A Crosswalk" sign ... but I don't know how much effect that would have on drivers that can't even tell whether or not I'm a pedestrian.

Plus, a lot of these crossings are often used by (and most appropriate for) families with several small children, people with limited mobility who must cross the street slowly, etc. Light controls are pretty much absolutely necessary at these intersections, but no one's ever going to bother installing one.

[Crankin]

I agree with you, Oak. Drivers who randomly stop because they think they are being nice in these types of situations are a menace. Massachusetts is famous for them. I see it at the 4 way stop by my house, all of the time. Instead of orderly following the rules, people come to the stop sign, stop, and wait to go until another car is stopped. Then, they both sit there and wave each other on, like "You go, no you go!" Add a bike into this mix (which happens very, very frequently), and it's a comedy, except it's dangerous. People around here hallucinate stop signs on a regular basis. I feel the same way about cars who go over the yellow line, on the opposite side of the road, to pass me on my bike, when there is plenty of room to do it safely. There's going to be a head on collision one day.

[emily_in_nc]

i always stop or slow down and proceed only when it's safe no matter the intersection so i don't have to worry about who has the right of way. Being legally right but in the hospital isn't something i need. There are lots of ways to get involved in an accident but being overly cautious can sometimes help in avoiding one...at least that has worked so far for me

This is me. My DH says I am overly cautious, and he always seems to make it through intersections while I wait on the other side. But I'd rather err on the side of safety than get somewhere a teeny bit quicker.

I do understand what Oak and Crankin are saying too, though -- we are often dealing with drivers who are just "too nice" and don't understand that sometimes that niceness in waving us across or in front of them is actually unwelcome. Once we have stopped and put a foot down, for example, we'd just as soon they go on ahead than have to wait for us to get going again, especially on a hill or anywhere where someone might be coming on in another lane so that we can't safely cross anyway. We especially encountered this over-niceness when we lived (briefly) in Prairie Village, KS and rode in that area (Overland Park, Leawood, Olathe, etc.) Drivers were just *too* nice for anyone's own good at times!

[Crankin]

Well, I always stop at intersections like the ones described in the article, wherew a trail meets the road. In fact, I lead a ride that bisects a trail, while I am riding on the road. Twice. I am cautious, but I don't stop. The people on the trail have a stop sign. Yet, sometimes, the cars stop for the riders crossing the street on bikes. Then, this makes me look like the bad one, but I am following the law.
I do not blow through intersections, either, Emily. There are a few local ones where I will come to a rolling stop, because they are on country roads with little traffic and the sight lines are good. Sometimes DH will go through a yellow light and I stop, because I just can't sprint as fast as he can! Despite the fact my commute is short (5.2 miles), I see all kinds of bad riding behavior around this, with other riders.

[rebeccaC]

we are often dealing with drivers who are just "too nice" and don't understand that sometimes that niceness in waving us across or in front of them is actually unwelcome. Once we have stopped and put a foot down, for example, we'd just as soon they go on ahead than have to wait for us to get going again, especially on a hill or anywhere where someone might be coming on in another lane so that we can't safely cross anyway. We especially encountered this over-niceness when we lived (briefly) in Prairie Village, KS and rode in that area (Overland Park, Leawood, Olathe, etc.) Drivers were just *too* nice for anyone's own good at times!

If someone stops for me and its not safe for me to go or i dont want to go yet I just smile make a no motion with my hand then a you go motion with my hand/arm and end it with an India palms together lowering my head gesture of thanks….simple and respectful. That’s the only part of the interaction I can control and I just want to feel good about my part of it. In the city on a two lane road if there is a long line of cars behind me and no traffic coming the other direction if I can do it safely I’ll slow down and stop to let a bicyclist cross the street….simple and respectful even if they decline. With all the bicyclists in the beach area here that’s happened a number of times for and by me usually with a thank you wave and nod from the bicyclist and always an eye contact thank you wave and nod by me.

[emily_in_nc]

If someone stops for me and its not safe for me to go or i dont want to go yet I just smile make a no motion with my hand then a you go motion with my hand/arm and end it with an India palms together lowering my head gesture of thanks….simple and respectful. That’s the only part of the interaction I can control and I just want to feel good about my part of it. In the city on a two lane road if there is a long line of cars behind me and no traffic coming the other direction if I can do it safely I’ll slow down and stop to let a bicyclist cross the street….simple and respectful even if they decline. With all the bicyclists in the beach area here that’s happened a number of times for and by me usually with a thank you wave and nod from the bicyclist and always an eye contact thank you wave and nod by me.

Yes, I always, always indicate thanks via a smile and wave even if I end up waving a "too nice" driver on because it's not safe or I just don't want to cross (perhaps I stopped to answer a phone call or have a quick snack, for instance). I like to provide as much goodwill towards motorists as I can in hopes of influencing their view of cyclists in a positive direction :-)

[OakLeaf]

I didn't mean to suggest that I'm not friendly or polite or grateful the first, second or even third time I indicate that a motorist should proceed (no matter what I might say about them later when they can't hear!). It's the motorists who insist on berating me, not the other way around! And I confess to expressing my irritation when it goes on for more than 30 seconds. I just want to get across the street.

Someone just got rear-ended a little bit north of me the other day when they'd stopped randomly for some pedestrians not in a crosswalk. Thankfully the passenger's injuries were relatively minor and neither the rider nor the pedestrians were hurt at all, even though their motorcycle wound up under the car. But if it had been another car rather than a motorcycle, chances are it would've been pushed right into the pedestrians. Exactly why I refuse to cross in front of one of those cars. It's usually what I say if I have to say something to them: "If you get rear-ended, we both get flattened."