Random Running Thread

[OakLeaf]

Welp ... doesn't seem like there's enough activity in this subforum to keep on with monthly threads, plus I couldn't think of anything running related that rhymes with June. :cool:

My big news is I actually showed some self restraint last week. :p I'd been wanting to try Skora shoes for a while, and they were having a clearance sale, and even though I've NEVER done any trail running and never thought I could run minimal, what they had left in my size was a minimal shoe. So of course I ordered a pair! I had some errands to run in town and there's a 6/10 mile canal trail, mostly firm dirt/grass with a little bit of #57 stone. I did one out-and-back and stopped. I've been trying to think of the last time I ran 1.2 miles and said I was done for the day, and it *might* have been as late as 1973, but probably longer ago than that. Everything felt great, but I could tell I was using some unaccustomed muscles and it wouldn't be a good idea to go any farther, so good thing I chose that short trail so I wasn't tempted. I definitely had a little bit of soreness and a lot of noticeable fatigue in my arches and hip internal rotators the next day! The shoes aren't a perfect fit, but that would be too much to hope for. :rolleyes: For a very short one, they're absolutely close enough, as close as anything else I've run in. I really like the construction; the asymmetric lacing and half-attached tongue solve several problems I have with most shoes, and the uppers are just comfy. Yet to be seen how well they're going to work for me over longer distances, but if it goes well I'll be ordering a pair of their cushioned road shoes next (too much exposed #4 on the one hand, and concrete on the other, for me to ever consider minimal shoes on the road).

I'm signed up for that 10K tomorrow morning. It's one of those things where I'm not even remotely in shape for it and I don't much feel like running it, but I just need something to kick start my summer, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't run it, I'd wish I had. Sooooooo we'll see how it goes.

Mostly I see more wildlife out my living room window or pulling weeds in my garden than I ever do when I'm out making noise and stirring stuff up and going by too quickly to notice little critters, but there are times I'll see something cool on a run, and I had one of those recently: a mink chasing a baby rabbit. Mink are elusive around here - there are plenty of them, but this was only the fourth time I've ever seen one after 18 years in this house. They were pretty evenly matched in size and from what I could tell, in speed as well! I'm not sure who got the best of the distraction - when I came along, the rabbit froze on the edge of the road while the mink darted into the hayfield. Don't know what happened next - but if the mink got her lunch, I'm kind of glad I wasn't there to see it. :eek:

Who else?

[Crankin]

Nothing, except I, too, am showing restraint by not going to the LRS and buying a new pair of Mizunos for boot camp, AND, to stay on your topic, a pair of trail running shoes. I've always been intrigued by trail running, and I feel like I don't need to try and run as fast, can always hike/walk. My body doesn't seem to react so poorly to running on dirt. But, my light hikers are too heavy for this.
I am waiting until I get back from my cycling trip, to let my foot heal more. It's better, no bruising left, but the most pain seems to happen from fast walking. Unfortunately, I went for a ride really early Thursday morning and it was really cold, so I wore my winter cycling shoes and woolie bullies, which are much tighter than my regular cycling shoes. This irritated the foot, so back to the icing.

[roo4]

I've been doing a bit more running than cycling lately. This morning I am taking my kid on a run, probably just a mile. We're headed to a local rail trail. Soft, flat, no cars. :)

[yellow]

I'm finding it easy to discover new shoes that I like or love a lot these days. So many to choose from now. I'm not too fussy, so it's fun to try different things. Current favorite trail shoe is the PI N2, which is their neutral training shoe. I've found that minimal just doesn't work for me for big mileage. The PI shoes are what I would call a happy medium and I plan on wearing them for all races this summer. I think my next experiment will be the Salomon Sense Mantra 3. I have the Sense Mantra 2 and I like it well enough, but I don't reach for it for 3+ hour training runs. Word from friends in the know that if I like the 2, I will love the 3 and that I will like it for those long trail runs. We shall see. That said, I am currently cycling through at least 2 pairs of the PI shoes, a pair of Hoka Stinsons, an older pair of Saucony Peregrines that I hoarded in my closet because I loved them so much (I don't care for the latest versions), and the Salomon SM 3. Yeah, I have a lot of shoes. And that's not including the "rejects" that I don't reach for (meaning that they aren't anything special) and/or the ones that have become garden shoes.

I took about a month off in April-May (for a good thing--a Grand Canyon river trip!) so I decided to forego a big run for June and stick with July and August races. I am doing a race (trail, since that is really all I do) as a training run in 2 weeks in Idaho; the area and terrain are similar to that of a stage race I am doing in August so I kind of want to check it out. I have a rematch with the Tahoe Rim Trail 50 in July (it kicked my arse in 2013) and then the stage race (in Idaho, the mountains around Stanley) in August. I fully expect that to completely kick my arse. So I am building mileage and trying to get into the mountains and am focused on staying healthy. After that, who knows. Maybe a 50k in Oregon in September, maybe just riding my bike, maybe nothing. I keep saying that one of these days I will hang it up and just lounge on the couch for the duration :p I reserve the right to take myself up on that offer any time!

[OakLeaf]

Yellow! Good to "see" you. Those are some beautiful places you're running and rafting in!

I managed to break 50 minutes for the 10K this morning, for the first time. I knew I had it in me but didn't really expect to pull it off today. Going to be sore tomorrow ...

[rocknrollgirl]

Hi Ladies,
Yellow!!! Good to see you. I have been running and too lazy to post. I am just trying to be consistent. I have lost of of my speed since my surgery in Nov, so I am going to have to work on that. So right now I am just trying to get out regularly. I do not have any races planned until the fall leading up to The North Face Endurance Challenge at Bear Mt next May. So I have time to get things rolling.

[yellow]

Okie dokie, a couple of updates.

First, I know I said I was going to try the Sense Mantra 3 but when presented with an option that feeds on one of those little back-of-the-brain lurking thoughts, I went a different direction. It took a gift card, a sale, and a regulars discount at the LRS and suddenly I found myself in a new pair of Hokas (trail), this time the Challenger. I'm pretty much in love with it. It's not as clunky as the Stinson, which kind of bugs me but isn't a huge deal since I really only wear the Hokas when I am feeling beat up and want or need to slow it down. But the Challenger is definitely more streamlined and lighter. I haven't tested them with a super long run yet--that will come next weekend. This week is an easy week so my long run won't be all that long. I'll still continue racing in the PIs, though. They are currently my #1 love.

Oak, any updates on the Skoras?

My other update is that the 50k went well. Better than expected, even. It was my slowest 50k evah but that's ok. I ran consistently and my fueling and hydration were just right. The next event is a headphone-free event and I expect it to be warm, so my training for the next month will include some runs when it's over 90 (I did 2 of those this week) and without listening to podcasts. I don't know which I am more afraid of. I'm a total podcast junkie and not listening is going to be a challenge. I'm looking at it this way: I get to save up a month's worth of podcasts to get me through the month after that and the stage race. The heat? Gah. I do not thermoregulate well, hot or cold.

[OakLeaf]

Glad you're doing well!

I don't have that many more miles on the Skoras - it's the kind of thing where I have to drive so far to do anything at all, that if I'm going to the trails, I want to work it in with another errand, and that doesn't always happen. But, I've been up to four miles of uneven surface with some elevation change, and the more I run in them, the more I like them. If I hadn't already stocked up with a year's worth of Altras when they discontinued the model I'm wearing now, I'd be trying the Skora Tempo, their most cushioned shoe, for sure.

Hoka sponsored the 10K I ran earlier this month, and the rep says they're going to start making one model in wide this fall. I'll be curious to try those on also.

I'm starting to kick my mileage back up a little again, two months is long enough to laze around the house and never run longer than 10 miles at a time. :p I'm finally starting to acclimate to the heat too, I could tell yesterday when it dropped all the way down to 77° and 70% humidity and it felt pleasantly cool and bone dry. Three years in a row now when the humidity stays above 80% 24 hours a day, welcome to our new climate. :(

Thinking about running Columbus again this fall. I'd like to run the marathon, I've only done Columbus once, but I'm not sure I really feel like another one just quite yet - might just do the half again.

[BikeDutchess]

2 weeks ago I did a 6.5 mile training run and just wasn't feelin' it. I managed to finish but felt totally wiped and discouraged. Today I had an 8 mile run on my schedule - and it went so much better! I got an earlier start so the sun wasn't quite peeking over the mountain tops yet for at least the first hour, which made a big difference. My pace per mile dropped by a full minute and I felt great at the end. Very happy. And grateful to my dear daughter, who rode her bike alongside as my support person both times. Those sips of ice cold water along the way were heavenly!

[Crankin]

My toe is better; not perfect, but definitely better. I will be going to the LRS to replace the shoes I wear for the small bit of running I do at boot camp (Mizuno Wave somethings ). Any suggestions for trail running shoes? I have narrow heels and I need a wide toe box. I also like cushioning. The LRS guy is really good and was spot on with the Mizunos, but I don't want to spend 4 hours there.

[Crankin]

OK, half of my purchasing is complete. Of course, they stopped making the Mizunos I've been wearing for running at boot camp. This is the second time this has happened. I now have a pair of Aisics that feel very good, and they are much cooler looking. In fact, I tried on 3 pairs that felt good.
However, there were no trail runners in the LRS in my size (6). The guy was very helpful, called the warehouse in Lowell and found one pair of Brooks, which someone will bring over here. So, I imagine it might be another week before I go out on the trail.

[OakLeaf]

Did you try Altra? Their trail shoe is called the Lone Peak - you might also try The One which is wider in the toe box but has a more flexible sole (cushioned, just flexible - though am I remembering right that you like a really rigid sole? That's been my experience with Mizuno). Skora is a newer brand and not a lot of stores have them yet. Hoka One One are spendy - not wide enough for me, but I'm pretty sure they have a nice foot-shaped toe box.

Glad your toe is better. Happy shopping!

I'm back into the serious hills. Can't really do more than ten around here without hitting them, though the loop I did yesterday was one of the more brutal ones. Yeow.

[Crankin]

I actually like a lot of cushioning, it's just that the Mizunos had the less rigid and wider toe box.
The only choice I am going to have in the trail shoes are the Brooks Cascades. If they don't feel right I will have to go into town, to Marathon Sports. The LRS here is really good, so I am praying the Brooks work.

[Crankin]

OK, just got back from my first trail run. I go on these with no expectations, no Garmin, not even a watch. My goal was to run at least 80% of the time, and I did, albeit probably not much faster than I can hike!
The shoes will work. It took me awhile to get the laces at the right amount of tightness where I tie them. I tend to err on the too loose side, because my feet are so damn sensitive. But, I felt some movement, especially in my right foot, so I made them tighter. This is with the laces done up with the special "extra hole" trick, as I have narrow heels. Nothing hurt, except my injured toe, but that has been aching a little in the past couple of days, in a minor way.
It's horribly humid out, kind of spitting. I doused myself in Deet, praying no tics got me. Next time, I am going to drive to a different trail. The beginning of my neighborhood trail is too wet and overgrown, and with the branches laid out, so you don't step in the mud, way too slippery for running, at least for me. I could access the trail by going down the steep hill to avoid this, and then doing a slightly different route to one of the spurs. All in all, I think I ran 2.5-3 miles, walking about 1/2 mile down the hill to the access point. I did not go on the trail into the next town, as it's very overgrown and wet, despite being an open field. If I do that, door to door it's 4 miles.
I'll probably feel this tomorrow, but right now, it's good.

[rocknrollgirl]

We have been running, but I have just not been posting. Partly because it is just so gross out I can hardly stand to run in it more less write about it. How gross you ask? Well yesterday morning at 6 am it was 77 degrees and 93% humidity. Gross. Stuck my head out and it felt like a sauna. Yuk.

Where oh where is my frigid winter running weather!

OK enough whining. Back out there tomorrow.

[OakLeaf]

The other day I was trying to wait for the humidity to drop below 90% before I went out. It was like 1:30 in the afternoon and sunny ... :eek: I'm finally acclimated though, so of course we're going to have a few cooler days to lose the acclimation. Not complaining as long as the rain and lightning don't get too heavy.

Did the local Fourth of July 5-mile race. It's a weird distance but a fun race. Anybody else race on the Fourth?

[rocknrollgirl]

The other day I was trying to wait for the humidity to drop below 90% before I went out. It was like 1:30 in the afternoon and sunny ... :eek: I'm finally acclimated though, so of course we're going to have a few cooler days to lose the acclimation. Not complaining as long as the rain and lightning don't get too heavy.

Did the local Fourth of July 5-mile race. It's a weird distance but a fun race. Anybody else race on the Fourth?


Can I get a YUK for that weather????

[yellow]

My experience with humidity is limited :p In the summer we often have single digit days, but this summer has been more moist than normal. What that means is that instead of being 7%, it's 30%. Waaaah, the sweat is not evaporating immediately! I would DIE running where you ladies do.

I am going to TN in the fall to do a race with a buddy there and I am worried about 2 things: (1) yes, humidity and (2) bugs. I have never run in the east before. Should be interesting. Might need to find a sauna to use for a month beforehand.

Tahoe is next week. Training this week has been weird. I have no problem embracing taper; that's not the issue. I just feel wiped out. I need to try to get more sleep this week. And drink a ton of water. And chill out about it. When I did this event in 2013, it did not go well. My dad had passed away about a week before the race (I wasn't sure I was even going to be able to run, but my ma put me on a plane to Reno) and then it was much hotter than normal. The result was a complete and total meltdown, my most spectacular meltdown ever. So I am nervous about it, to say the least. I'd say I was motivated to kill it before this week, but I just feel blah physically and mentally (standard mid-life existential crises not really related to running). I am hoping I can find a happy place this week. We leave on Thursday and the race is on Saturday.

Wish me luck. I need it.

[OakLeaf]

Good luck, yellow. You will OWN this race!

[salsabike]

<3, yellow. Go have fun with it!

[Crankin]

Did my second trail run today. I avoided the wet part of the trail, so I had to descend the very steep trail in the beginning. Did not run the very top part, but after awhile, the descent becomes more gradual. Because the entrance to this trail starts about a 1/3 of a mile closer to my house than the wet part, I ran the part where the trail goes into the next town, through a field, and then becomes a short trail again. It's very hot today, but, I went out at around 8:30, maybe 8:25, and being in the woods was very nice. I would say I ran about the same percentage of time as last time, but I took a couple more walk breaks going back up the steep climb. Probably not such a good idea to run so soon after breakfast, but I was on a time schedule. Still somewhere between 2.5 and 3 miles.
I have to look at the You Tube video of doing the loops through the extra lace hole thing; my right shoe is still slipping a very teeny bit, even with the laces put through the extra hole. My right foot is almost half a size smaller, so this makes sense. Also, waiting for some new socks to wear with these shoes. There's a nice web site called Sock Addict...

[OakLeaf]

The lace goes through the "extra" hole on the SAME side as its last "regular" hole. That creates a loop on each side. Then you pass the laces through the loops on the opposite side, so it's like a yoke. I've been lacing my shoes like that forever. Except with the Skoras, that don't have that loop hole AND I don't miss it!

[TrekDianna]

I did. I ran a 5k only. It was around the hop fields of the Rogue brewery. Finishing gift was a Rogue Brewery pint class and your choice of filler :)

[OakLeaf]

Yellow, hope your race went well!!

[yellow]

Soooooo much better than 2 years ago. Weather was nearly perfect and my head was in a better place. 25th overall, 5th female, 3rd in AG (yes, 3 of the top 5 women were over 40!). Not my fastest ever, but considering the terrain (and the fact that there was one mile in there that had 1100 feet of climb!) I'm happy with my time @ 11:01 for 51 miles. I spent a couple of days in Tahoe afterward and enjoyed some quiet time with some friends, including a friend that lives there and who I hadn't seen in almost 10 years. I was a bit sore yesterday but we went for a long hike and that helped loosen me up considerably. I feel good today and plan to get back to it tomorrow AM.

[OakLeaf]

Nice work, yellow! Congrats!

I will now stop whining about the hill I ran yesterday, that climbs 120 feet in 1/10 mile. Maybe I need to start using it for hill repeats. ;)

[Crankin]

I went for my 3d trail run today; been a little distracted by lots of cycling and my son visiting.
The shoelace trick worked. Now, I have to figure out why my knees are aching. It's not from running, it started before I got the trail shoes. I suspect it was the bike I had in France, with less lower gears and 170 mm cranks. That seemed to set me up for this, any time I do a lot of climbing, stuff at the gym, or running. I've been trying to wear flats a lot (not that I wear very high heels). It got really bad the day after I rode in 50 degree early AM chill a couple of weeks ago, then got better. Despite all of that, I still like trail running, although my running is not much faster than a hike. Interestingly, I can run up the steep hill fairly well, just stopping at the top for a bit to recover. Next time, I will go to a different trail. Just too lazy today to drive to a trail.

[OakLeaf]

I wouldn't be surprised, 170s kill my knees. Hope yours feel better soon.

I brought both my road shoes and trail shoes to run after the farmers market yesterday - with the other errands I needed to run, the paved trail wound up being more convenient, so I did my first interval session in way too long. Nothing too strenuous, just 8 x 600 at goal half marathon pace to wake up my body and remind myself what intervals feel like.

I signed up for the half marathon in Columbus in October. Really I'd like to do the full one more time, but I just did not feel motivated to train for it.

[Crankin]

First early AM trail run. I don't want to commute today and have to ride home in the 98 degree 90% humidity, with good chance of thunderstorms.
Went out at about 5:35, well covered with bug spray. It was peaceful and nice, but it definitely felt harder for me at this time of the day. When I go to the gym at 5:15, I warm up on the TM for a few minutes and that helps. When I ride early, I go with no expectations of speed, and I often record averages that are super slow. I did warm up when I walked up the street to the trail, but I think i needed more.
Of course, when I got down the steep descent, I had to go to the bathroom, had no tissues, so I made the decision to run the other way on the trail, at a junction, and back. So, probably ran 2-2.5 miles. I am glad I went, and I was totally soaked when I got back up the hill. I slowly run down the side of the street with the grass to cool down, before I have to walk up my driveway.
Definitely need to drive to a different trail next time. At least my feet feel fine!

[BikeDutchess]

Next-to-last long run before my Labor Day weekend half. Got my second wind the last 2 miles and felt tired but good at the end.

Question for you experienced runners: how should I structure my training between de Labor Day half (Sept. 6th) and my Lake Powell half on Oct. 17th? Currently I run 3 miles two mornings a week, and for the weekends I alternate between another 3-4 miler one week and a long run the other week. My long runs have been increasing by about 1.5 miles each time, I'm up to 11 miles today. One more long run in 3 weeks (have to work around a bike event in 2 weeks) before I taper. So what length runs should I be shooting for during the 6 week span between the 2 half marathon events? Should I schedule in another 11 and 12.5 miler (which honestly makes me cringe) or can I make the long runs shorter to avoid burning out? As you may have guessed, I'm not running for speed, just to enjoy the events and finish.

[OakLeaf]

Welp ... with the caveat that I've NEVER been motivated enough to keep my fitness up immediately after an event ... I would focus more on getting your weekly mileage back up, rather than worrying too much about running near race distance in your long runs. I've read a few places, and I've started to experience it as I experiment with different training strategies, that within reason, weekly mileage is really more important than the long run in isolation.

I've read that one of the more effective ways to return to action is to do your taper in reverse. Have not tried that - every time, no matter my intentions, I've always found myself needing a mental break and/or needing to get non-running stuff done around the house and especially physically taxing stuff in the yard/garden/woodlot, and my running-specific fitness has gone to h377. Sigh.

Then again, since you're not aiming for any time goals, you might do best to think of your second event as your main goal, and not taper at all for the first one. If you'll have run 12.5 before the first event, and if you don't plan to run it at a quicker pace than you've trained, it won't tax your body any more than an ordinary training run. Then you can go into your second event fully fit and not have to worry about the intricacies of peaking for and recovering from the first one.


I did a local 5K yesterday, a race I've done the past three years. Kind of a tough course, through an arboretum, all paved but with a LOT of elevation change. Took nearly a minute off last year's time, yay - if anything the temperature was just slightly warmer this year, but the rain last year meant that footing would have been a little sketchy in some places, which might have slowed me down. But I think some of it is residual fitness from the spring, and some of it is I'm still learning the distance even with as many 5Ks as I've done, particularly with this race where I'm better able to judge how hard to power up the hills. Doing a bunch of shorter races in lieu of speedwork for a non-goal race worked for me last year. But now I've kind of got a bug in my head about attempting a HM PR in October, and if that's going to happen I better start real training pretty dang soon ...

[BikeDutchess]

Thanks, Oak, for giving me some strategies to consider.

[yellow]

I purposely schedule my races 4 weeks apart (I use a 4 week periodization). I also typically use a race as prep for the next one, so I kill 2 birds with one stone. The week after an event, I take it easy--this is my "off" week. Midweek running is similar distance-wise but I don't do a structured workout (such as intervals or hill repeats) and my long run is shorter (I don't go by miles--do 90% of my training by time and not distance). The following week I go big, but not too big because, in theory, I should already be close to or at peak because I just did a race of sufficient length that it acts as a training run. Then the next 2 weeks are progressively a little lighter, mostly in the long run (midweek runs don't change that much, with the exception of the type of structured day that I do, which is definitely less intense the closer I get to my next event).

If I were in your shoes, for a 6-week interval, I'd probably go easy the first week, moderate the second week, big the third week, moderate, and then easy. For my big week, I'd probably do something that would take me about 75% of the time it takes me to do the race distance, max. Certainly no more than that. You will reap the benefits of your first race even though it seems like it was a long time ago.

I have used reverse taper, but for relatively short races. Weeks 1 and 2 are easy, with a gradual build, and then the next is big and then moderate the week of the race. This seems to work ok for me if the later race is not as important to me...which brings me to the other thing to consider, which is identifying the race that is more important to you and how important other things in your life are in comparison. Your focus on one or the other might help you get through the mental tangle about how best to train. This is, for me, the bigger struggle.

Good luck! 🌷

[BikeDutchess]

Thank you for your thoughtful input as well, yellow! A lot to think about, including your point of how important other things in my life are in comparison.
Really appreciate both your and OakLeaf's input.

[yellow]

Yay! Done. 4 day stage race in Idaho. Total of 91 miles, 21 hours and 57 minutes, ~ 14,000 feet of climbing (less than expected!), and I felt pretty good most of the time. The first day was rough but after that it was pretty damn good. Gorgeous scenery. The race organization was a little...lacking...but not much I could have done about that.

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[OakLeaf]

Woot!! Very nice yellow. Congratulations - and what beautiful scenery to run in.

Been doing a little too much running around lately and not enough actual running. But I had a little fun weekend before last. We went to Indianapolis for the MotoGP race (yay!!) - we were supposed to ride, but DH changed his mind at the last minute. As disappointed as I was to take the car, it let me throw a towel and a change of clothes into the car and run from the hotel to the track each morning while DH drove in. The ticket takers were NOT used to someone showing up for a day at the races, all sweaty and carrying nothing but my ID belt. :D It actually worked out really well, much better than coming back at the end of the day and trying to find time and motivation for a run!

[yellow]

Thanks, Oak. Apparently I was way off on the climbing. That was for the first 3 days. Total was just over 23000 feet!

[BikeDutchess]

Holy cow, yellow! That's amazing - the accomplishment, the scenery, the belt buckle, all of it. I'm in awe!

Oak, I'm sure you made a lasting impression on those ticket takers :)

[OakLeaf]

Total was just over 23000 feet!

Yikes. Wow. I'm in awe!

[Crankin]

Yeah, me too. When you said stage race, Yellow, I really thought you were talking about a cycling race. I know this is the running thread, but...

[Jolt]

YUCK is all I have to say about the weather here lately...hot and humid! The only way to get a run (or ride for that matter) in is to do it first thing in the morning, and it still feels gross. I did about a 3 miler this morning and it was not enjoyable at all. Taking it somewhat easy this week because I am riding D2R2 (100k) on Saturday, hopefully it will be a little cooler and less humid then!