How much of a difference does a bike upgrade actually make?

[fallstoclimb]

I am starting to get the itch to upgrade my entry-level road bike. However, I am also cheap, so this is causing some cognitive dissonance :)

I have a 2010 Specialized Dolce (purchased new in 2011) with a carbon fork, Tiagra derailleur, and Sora shifters. I've never exactly felt like the bike is holding me back, but it is entry-level and a bit old so I am beginning to wonder if I've outgrown it. This is the first season where I'm starting to feel almost like I'm a little bit fast, and I keep wondering how much faster I could be, as I watch people pass me on nicer bikes.

I wouldn't spend a crazy amount of money on a bike -- I think 2K is about my upper limit -- so it's not like I'll go full carbon or anything. I want a durable bike, anyway. Really I'd prefer to buy a used one on Craigslist because new, nice things stress me out!

The husband is trying to push me instead to upgrading my groupset on the current bike. I don't really get why that would make the bike faster, though? I don't have any shifting complaints currently.

OR maybe I should save my money and just work more on the engine ;)

[ny biker]

If you want to look at new bikes, I noticed the other day that my LBS (in Reston, VA) has some from last year on sale. They're a Trek shop, not Specialized. Other shops closer to you might also have some of last year's bikes on sale, and they should all have some at the end of the summer when the 2016s come out, if you want to wait. They also tend to have sales in July to coincide withe Tour de France.

As for whether you need a new bike... I did not really get faster when I upgraded from an aluminum road bike to a carbon frame. My new bike is much more comfortable, though, due to different geometry as well as carbon's ability to absorb bumps in the road.

One thing you might want to consider is new wheels. There are various old threads here you can search for. I think a wheel upgrade might make a difference, and they could also be used on a new bike if you decide to get another one in the future. I could ask my friends in southern MD if they can recommend a good wheel maker, if you're interested. I know there's a good on at Spokes, etc., I think at their store on Quaker Lane in Alexandria.

[fallstoclimb]

I think I just need someone to say what you just did -- new bike does not equal faster rider.

What about upgrading the groupset, though? Is there any actual point to that? My husband salivates over nice groupsets but then has a hard time explaining what the point of them is.....

[fallstoclimb]

Thanks Muirenn! I am now intrigued by the Specialized Amira.

I am super short and definitely cannot ride any men's bikes. I'll probably have to get a shop to order the Amira for me but I might call around to check. The effective top tube length is the same as the Dolce so it looks like I'd need a 48.

I do feel a little silly about upgrading my bike when I could just upgrade myself, but I doubt many men would say that to themselves....I may be starting a little bike fund :)

[Helene2013]

I have a Amira sl4 expert and although everyone said it was aggressive, it is nothing like the Kuota Kharma I had.

I'm 5'3 (or 5'4'' - no longer sure), and I have a 51cm. Fits perfectly well.

So far, I LOVE my Amira. When you nail that pedal down, you are already far ahead. Hill climbing? No issues. It has so much kick-off. I have no issue with the steering, no issues with getting it back on track if I happen to go over a bump or whatever. Wished I had found this bike before the Kuota and saved myself lots of money. hihi

Everyone love its colour but I totally hate it. Flat black with zebra stripes! For someone like me who likes colour, it's hard to deal with but the comfort of the ride and feeling safe on it, outbeats any colour. I'll just pimp it one day. hihi

But I did keep my American classic wheels that I had so bike + wheels + ultegra, I could certainly not ask for a better bike.

Good luck in your search and as most of us would tell you : Go get your dream bike! Only one life to live. hihi

[pumpkinpony]

I started on a LeMond Tourmalet (entry level relaxed geometry), and after a few years upgraded to a Mrazek BOH RD (more aggressive geometry) with an awesome set of Topolino wheels on it. I think the wheels make more difference than anything else. It's still an aluminum frame. The other big difference was switching to Campy which came on the newer bike... You might try test riding a bike with Campy or even SRAM, just to see what you think of a different groupset. I really have enjoyed the Campy though I probably wouldn't have sprung for the extra cost if the bike didn't come with it. The hoods are smaller, brake levers easier for me to grab, and thumb shifters. Since I got the new bike I rarely ride the LeMond (anyone want a LeMond? :-) Definitely test ride a few to see how they feel. I haven't regretted my upgrade in the least. You do know the perfect number of bikes is n+1, right? <g>

[fallstoclimb]

Do you like how quickly I went from 'you're right, I don't need a new bike' to 'YOURE RIGHT I NEED A NEW BIKE!' Haha.

Muirenn -- I actually couldn't find a chart on the Dolce's ETT but when I googled, some other people online claimed it was 506. I should probably verify this myself. I'm 5'2" so not like crazy pants short but I think I have a short reach.

We did upgrade the wheels on the Dolce in my first year - but I'm sure there are always further upgrades.....

I do wish I could easily test ride in my size, though!

[rebeccaC]

You have a good bike now, but hey I know the want thing….there can always be better

When I kinda knew there was going to be a lot of bicycling in my life I waited and saved for a custom built frame and don't regret the time it took to save the money now. I rode easily affordable bikes for 7 years while i saved, lots of miles, lots of good times, learned more about working on bikes and got stronger too. As already said you might think about wheels that can then go onto your custom though…..:)...and +1 on campy....i like being able to replace a $5 brifter part with a $5 part rather than a new brifter, at least that was the case when i got campy for my two custom bikes....and no mechanical problems at all with simple maintenance over a couple of years of hard riding

[IBrakeforPastry]

??

Am I looking at the same thing? The current 48 cm Dolce has an effective TT of 522, and 506 for the Amira. The head tube is so much higher on the Dolce, through, that the reach is almost the same on those two: 371 for the Amira, 370 for the Dolce. So, yeah. May feel like the same size.

Did I look at the wrong chart?!

Specialized changed the geometry on the 2015 models. Is that where the confusion is? I started a thread about this a while ago. This is also why I'm looking at last year's closeouts.

I went to Specialized's website and searched "archive" with the year and model. If it was no longer available, I then searched for a dealer who still had the stock, and sometimes they would have the correct geometry chart.

ETA: the change may have been made on the 2014 models.

[fallstoclimb]

What is NOS?

I do have a question about the bike stiffness and power transfer. Is the Dolce NOT stiff? I asked my husband about this and he said aluminum is a stiff material but sometimes he just pretends he knows what he's talking about :)

[khg]

Though a new bike, or new bling on your existing bike might not make you faster in itself, if it makes you excited and happy and gets you riding more, then you will be faster pretty soon. So yeah, I'm in the "go for it!" camp :)

Depending on what you like/don't like about your current bike, new wheels are a great option. You can get some *really* nice and lightweight wheels for under $1,000 and they can liven up the feel of your bike a lot. Again, they may not necessarily make you much faster (though aero wheels can really speed up your descending), but just make it more fun to zip around on your bike.

On the other hand, a new bike is never a bad idea either :)

[fallstoclimb]

Haha thank you for all of the encouragement!

And Muirenn, thank you for that master's thesis on bike stiffness!!! You really know your stuff and I learned a lot reading that :)
I just may print it out and file it for future access!

I didn't even know the CAAD10 had a women's version - I will definitely check that out.

[fallstoclimb]

This year's CAAD 10 model is SO PRETTY. I know I can't decide on looks alone, but I waaaaannnntttt

[Owlie]

Haha thank you for all of the encouragement!

And Muirenn, thank you for that master's thesis on bike stiffness!!! You really know your stuff and I learned a lot reading that :)
I just may print it out and file it for future access!

I didn't even know the CAAD10 had a women's version - I will definitely check that out.

I LOVE the women's CAAD10. Fits me out of the box, and much more comfy a ride than some carbon.

[Owlie]

Have you tried the CAADX? The geometry is almost the same as the women's CAAD10. My CAADX is eff TT 535, HT 140. Women's CAAD10 is 537, HT 150. Reach is within a couple of millimeters. I could ride the men's or women's CAAD10, but the men's is super aggressive. Not sure I'd want to.

I'd try one if I could find one in my size! (51cm CAAD10 (women's) is perfect. I'd need a 48 in the CAADX, since the 51 is a bit on the long side for me, I think.)

[nuliajuk]

Regarding the upright position (high head tube), don't forget that you can always flip the stem so that it slopes down instead of up. That lowers the bars considerably.
If there's a Look dealer nearby, have a look at the 566. I absolutely love mine. Here's the geometry chart:
http://www.lookcycle.com/media/upload/2015-geometries/GEOM_566.pdf

http://www.lookcycle.com/en/it/route/velos/566-new-bike.html

[nuliajuk]

It's what they'd probably call a sportive bike in Europe. Designed more for enthusiasts who just want to enjoy riding than for full-tilt racers, extremely comfortable on our rough potholed and frost-cracked roads. Flattened top tube, chain stays, and seat stays similar to a Cannondale Synapse for comfort.
That being said, it corners on a dime and if I were still racing I'd use it as a crit bike. It has the unusual property of being both straight-ahead stable and quick steering and lively.

[Trek420]

Sounds like a great bike. :)

Sounds like a great bike.

Thought about the wheels? One of the most effective upgrades is lighter faster wheels.

[fallstoclimb]

I just wanted to update everyone and say that I am officially bike shopping :)

Online, at least. It's tough to find many 48s in stock, so this is going to be a long project. Shopping for my first road bike was so overwhelming because I just had no clue what I wanted - I'm not sure if its better or worse now that I have a much better idea of what I want!

[fallstoclimb]

I've started test riding! I actually have a spreadsheet I'd be happy to share if anyone is interested, although I will say my 'impressions' on each bike are mostly just based on gut feelings :)

A lot of bikes I've just test ridden around the parking lot and have been able to tell they are not for me. I've got a couple in mind I may take on longer test rides (Bianchi Impulso and Trek Emonda), but I still want to track down and test ride the Specialized Amira, Cannondale SuperSix Evo, and CAAD10 before I start narrowing down the list.

It turns out it is challenging to find bikes in my size but not impossible. The Cannondale ones are the only ones I'm having real trouble with, but I think if I venture down to the high-end shops in DC I'll have some luck there.

[zoom-zoom]

I <3 my 48cm SuperSix! Definitely worth trying to find.

[fallstoclimb]

Kirsten, I'd love to hear about what other bikes you rode/considered before you got the SuperSix! Or was it love at first sight?

[MarieV]

I'm also 5'2" with a 28" inseam (barefoot), so I have a short reach. For me (and probably for you) the smallest stock bikes are usually just too big. I wonder if part of what's holding you back may be due to bike fit. Have you ever gotten a bike fit, where the fitter spends an hour or more watching you riding the bike on a trainer and adjusts the seat position, stem, handlebars, etc.? For women our size it's definitely worth it since most stock bikes are just too big. Also, some PTs who specialize in bike fits take insurance, so it may only cost you $25-50 rather than $100-150+.

I bought and rode three different road bikes (aluminum, steel, and carbon) that all turned out to be too big for me. The first was a Kona Lisa RD aluminum bike (510 mm effective top tube), which has a similar geometry as the Specialized Dolce, but I was never very comfortable and always anxious on that bike. I thought it was because road bikes just aren't as comfortable and easy to ride as hybrid and mountain bikes, but then I test rode a Bianchi steel bike (also 510 mm ETT), which was a revelation. It was so much fun to ride, more comfortable since the steel frame absorbed road noise better than aluminum, and once the LBS swapped the stem for a 70 mm stem and the right width handlebars, I bought it and really enjoyed riding it. I finally felt like I was in control of the bike rather than at its mercy. I realized the Kona was just way too big for me, so I put it on craigslist the next day.

With the steel bike I started riding more and doing longer rides, eventually doing a 100 km ride with DH. I would get frustrated, though, because he rode 10x more and was much stronger, and although he was incredibly patient and would usually let me set the pace. Still, he was on a light carbon bike while I was on my heavy steel bike, so I couldn't go as fast, had to work harder, and would get tired faster. All of this became evident when we did a particularly hilly 100 km ride when I'd only been riding about 6 months. I just wasn't very strong or very good at climbing, and that ride was so hard for me, I ended up sobbing.

I spent the next few months researching carbon bikes and test rode 5-6 of them (e.g., Specialized Ruby 44, Ridley, Giant, etc.). I did hilly test rides, and while I could tell it was easier to climb the hills on the carbon bikes than my steel bike, they just didn't feel quite right. One day I test rode an XS Wilier Izoard XP (515 ETT), and it was amazing! I could climb more easily and ride faster on the flats, and the bike was so stable, I could descend confidently. I was grinning during that entire test ride. Needless to say, I bought the Wilier. (For some reason I really like the ride on Italian bikes.) BTW I never test rode a Cannondale when I was bike shopping, but I've since ridden the Cannondale Synapse 44 (491 ETT) carbon bike when I took a friend bike shopping. It's really nice and responsive, and if they'd had one in my size when I was shopping for carbon bikes, I might have gotten it.

So to answer your original question, "How much of a difference does a bike upgrade actually make?" It makes a HUGE difference if you upgrade frame material and components and the bike fits. And you should be able to feel the difference, but only if you do a long enough test ride to feel the difference on climbs and descents and long flats. There's no way you'd be able to really know how well a bike fits and handles just by riding around a parking lot. You might be able to tell a bike is way too big or way too small just by doing a parking lot test ride, but there's no way to tell its responsiveness (i.e., has a stiff BB, so you accelerate faster and climb more easily) unless you do at least a 15-30 minute test ride where there are hills and some straightaways where you can punch it. If you're looking at carbon bikes, I can't imagine the LBS not letting you take the bikes out for longer test rides.

Fast forward almost three years, and I've since traded in the Wilier for a Colnago CLD 40s (500 ETT), the smallest available WSD carbon bike in 2013. I rode the Wilier more than my steel bike and could definitely finally feel myself getting stronger and faster, but once I started consistently riding over 50+ miles, I started getting knee pain that turned out to be IT Band Syndrome. My PT gave me exercises to address the ITBS, but she was convinced my bike was just too big for me. The wear marks on my saddle showed I was clearly dropping a hip to compensate for the reach, putting strain on my knee. I didn't want to believe it since it meant I'd have to get yet another bike. I just kept riding, but the harder I rode the worse the pain got. Once the pain got to the point I couldn't even ride, I finally realized she was right. I did more research on carbon bikes and found the smallest non-custom bike with the shortest top tube and reach was the Colnago CLD 40s. I had my LBS order one and sold the Wilier on craigslist. Within a month of me getting the Colnago, I did a century ride and the 180+ mile RSVP (Seattle to Vancouver) ride, and I knew it was perfect! I continually get stronger and faster riding this bike, and I've been riding pain-free and injury-free ever since.

[fallstoclimb]

I'm glad you found an answer to your shortie problems!!

I think my proportions must be a bit different from yours, as my 48 Dolce does fit me well. I got a professional fitting and he didn't even change all that much. I'm just finding that most bike shops stock 'comfort' women's bikes, whereas I'm looking for elite road bikes, but I did track down one I'm going to test ride on Sunday.

I wish I were upgrading from a steel bike as that would make a significant difference in terms of speed!!! Dolce to carbon/high level aluminum will be much more subtle, but I'm now firmly convinced it is time for an upgrade, not least of all so that I don't stick out like a sore thumb when I do the fast group ride and am the only one on an entry level bike....of course I stick out when they drop me about halfway through, but that's a separate issue :)

[fallstoclimb]

Thanks Sheila!! I'll keep my eyes open for someone stocking small men's sizes!

[MarieV]

To be clear, my "heavy steel bike" is a Bianchi Vigorelli with Reynolds 631 and Ultegra/105 mix, so it weighs in around 20-21 lbs. It's not a tank like a Surly Cross-Check or LHT or Bianchi Volpe with Tiagra or lower-end components. In contrast, my carbon bike weighs about 16 lbs. Granted my carbon bike has upgraded wheels and a Campy Chorus groupset, but any stock carbon bike in your size should weigh about 17-18 lbs if it has an Ultegra/105 groupset. Once you start doing longer test rides involving climbs, you should totally feel the difference between a carbon bike and your Dolce.

Before you completely rule out "comfort" bikes, you should take a few of them on longer test rides. By "comfort" I'm guessing you mean a relaxed geometry with a shorter top tube. Keep in mind that more bike companies are offering relaxed geometries for riders who don't ride very much and probably are not comfortable with an aggressive geometry, where you're totally stretched out over the top tube to get into the most aero position. But relaxed geometries are also better for sportive or endurance riding, where you're in the saddle for 5+ hours. If you want a bike only for shorter rides (up to 2-3 hours), then an aggressive geometry where you're stretched out may be fine, but if you want to start doing longer rides like century rides, where you'll be in the saddle 7-10+ hours, then the more upright position is more comfortable once you reach hours 4-5.

Keep in mind that you can always make a bike with a more relaxed geometry (i.e., with a shorter top tube and tall head tube) more aggressive by swapping for a longer stem and using a negative angle, but it's a lot harder to make a more aggressive bike (i.e., with a longer top tube) more relaxed since you'll compromise the handling with a really short stem (<70 mm) and a really steep angle.

[OakLeaf]

Just FTR, "comfort bike" is a specific configuration, pretty much the same as a hybrid - hardtail, sprung forks and seatpost without damping, buckhorn to flattish bars, hybrid frame geometry, rack bosses or integrated racks, wide wheels with street tires, low end MTB components. My Trek Navigator is an example. Basically a low-end UAV. It weighs upwards of 40#, and 20 miles on that bike is a very long ride. All day is out of the question AFAIC, even with the road saddle I slapped on it to replace the OEM saddle, one of those things that's bigger than my head. Not at all the same thing as road bikes set up for sport-touring or day rides.

[Crankin]

She means an endurance bike, not the kind of comfort bike you are talking about. But, you knew that.
All I know is that I don't feel slower on my Silque than I did on my Kuota. While, I am not "fast" by any means, nothing has changed, except the smoothness of my ride and no twitchiness.

[OakLeaf]

Right, but I think when the OP said the bike shops were all trying to sell her "comfort bikes," she meant the kind I was describing. That's all!

[MarieV]

No, Oakleaf, I think the bike shops are showing her WSD carbon bikes that tend to have more relaxed geometries (shorter top tube, taller head tube) compared to men's/unisex carbon bikes. She already has a Dolce and wants something faster, so there's no way she's testriding 30-40 lb. comfort bikes.

I was trying to point out that relaxed geometries have their place. Most WSD bikes are aimed at shorter women, and they tend to have shorter top tubes and taller head tubes since women tend to have longer legs and shorter torsos. The men's/unisex bikes with comparable length seat tubes usually have top tubes that are often 2-3 cm longer since men tend to have shorter legs and longer torsos.

Crankin, isn't your Trek Silque also a carbon bike? If so, I'm not surprised that you're not any slower on your Silque carbon bike than on your Kuota carbon bike. I would think the more aggressive geometry on the Kuota would only make you faster if you're riding really long distances in the aero position, especially if you couldn't achieve as low a position on the Silque.

However, the OP should totally be able to feel a difference between an aluminum Dolce and an Amira or any other carbon bike during a long test ride with hills.

[Jolt]

To be clear, my "heavy steel bike" is a Bianchi Vigorelli with Reynolds 631 and Ultegra/105 mix, so it weighs in around 20-21 lbs. It's not a tank like a Surly Cross-Check or LHT or Bianchi Volpe with Tiagra or lower-end components. In contrast, my carbon bike weighs about 16 lbs. Granted my carbon bike has upgraded wheels and a Campy Chorus groupset, but any stock carbon bike in your size should weigh about 17-18 lbs if it has an Ultegra/105 groupset. Once you start doing longer test rides involving climbs, you should totally feel the difference between a carbon bike and your Dolce.


Wow, a 21-pound bike sounds really light to me (says the person who rides a fully racked and fendered Surly LHT, usually with a handlebar bag on to boot, for almost all of her riding)! Does 2-4 pounds (your steel bike vs. a carbon bike) really make THAT much of a difference in speed? I average 12-14 mph on my Surly...it'd be interesting to see what would happen if I got on a carbon bike.

[MarieV]

Jolt, I'm probably only 1-2 mph faster on my carbon bike than my steel bike. On a typical 100 km (~65 mile) ride I probably average 11-13 mph on my ~20 lb. steel bike (Bianchi Eros Donna) compared to an average of 12-14 mph on my carbon bike. So I'm only a little bit faster on the carbon bike, but because it's also much lighter and more responsive, I'm usually a lot less tired after riding the carbon bike compared to the steel bike. I probably wouldn't be able to do century rides on my steel bike, but I'm usually OK after one on my carbon bike.

Now I use my Bianchi Vigorelli as my commuter bike, so with a rack, bag, and fenders it's closer to 27-28 lbs. After a week of commuting on my steel bike, I always feel like a superhero when I ride my carbon bike on the weekends. I'm guessing you'd probably have an even more pronounced experience if you rode a carbon bike compared to your 30+ lb. LHT.

[zoom-zoom]

Kirsten, I'd love to hear about what other bikes you rode/considered before you got the SuperSix! Or was it love at first sight?

I really didn't ride any others. I'd had a Cdale Synapse in the same size for a year and was desperate to switch from aluminum to carbon (LOTS of rough, chip-sealed roads around here). I also wanted something with more aggressive geometry, once I decided that I wanted to do some duathlon races and keep up with faster folks easier. And then the bike with the exact components I wanted just happened to come out with orange accents...my favorite color. It was pretty much destined to happen. Cannondale was the primary brand our LBS carried, so we ordered one for me sight-unseen. Even though I have a $$ fancy Ti Seven CX bike, my SuperSix is my favorite ride. For a reasonably performance-oriented bike it's really comfortable. I've ridden it across the state 3x.

[zoom-zoom]

Jolt, I'm probably only 1-2 mph faster on my carbon bike than my steel bike. On a typical 100 km (~65 mile) ride I probably average 11-13 mph on my ~20 lb. steel bike (Bianchi Eros Donna) compared to an average of 12-14 mph on my carbon bike. So I'm only a little bit faster on the carbon bike, but because it's also much lighter and more responsive, I'm usually a lot less tired after riding the carbon bike compared to the steel bike. I probably wouldn't be able to do century rides on my steel bike, but I'm usually OK after one on my carbon bike.

This is precisely my experience on my Carbon road bike vs. my Ti CX bike with lightweight wheels and slick tires. There's still probably a 4# difference. It doesn't seem like much, but it's astounding how much easier it is to get the carbon bike up to speed and keep it there. And the geometry on my CX bike is just...weird on the road. I don't like it when I'm riding in a paceline, because the steering does not inspire confidence at speed when on someone's wheel. On gravel it's wonderful, though.

[fallstoclimb]

UPDATE: I just test rode the CAAD10 and fell in love. I briefly wavered because I didn't get to test ride the Amira yet (or I could have just ordered the Evo), but I more or less came to the conclusion that I think I'm one of those people that doesn't like the smooth dead feel of low level carbon - the CAAD instantly felt more livelier and I immediately had a huge smile on my face. No regrets at all.

Well, except that I'm going on vacation on Wednesday and am not sure I'm going to get a chance to ride the bike before then!!! Which is just insane. I'm hoping one ride Wednesday morning or maybe the weather will allow for it tomorrow.

Now I just need to tell myself its OK if my segment times don't actually improve, what's important is that I LOVE this bike. :)
(But also I am really hoping my segment times improve!!)

[MarieV]

Congratulations on the new bike! I'm so glad you found a bike you love. What size did you end up getting?

If you ride more and enjoy it, you'll definitely get faster.

[fallstoclimb]

I got a 48. It actually feels smaller than my 48 Dolce, I think due to the more aggressive geometry. Looking forward to getting my fit done as things all feel a little bit wrong, but I'm sure the size is close enough that we can work with it. May need to swap out the handlebars for a narrower set though - Specialized is really so much better about accomodating petite ladies.

I took it out yesterday before work and had a blast. I can't wait to take it out on a group ride.