most of us think of our own health but what about the kids (autism)

[smilingcat]

Here is a "news" about autism in kids. Rate may go to one in two kids by 2025 according to Sr. MIT scientist Dr. Stephanie Seneff. This isn't about politics. It's about science, health... health of the society...

http://biohazard.eu.com/news/12589-dr-stephanie-seneff-senior-mit-research-scientist-on-vaccine-safety

And this isn't about yes or no to Roundup or other pesticides. It's what it is. Never hurts to be safe so good thing I don't use manmade pesticides. Just thought you might want to be informed especially if you have kids or planning to have kids. Better to err on side of "safe side"

[roo4]

First, vaccines do not cause autism. There has never been a proven link and the doctor who proposed it has lost his medical license.

Second, with regard to the idea that Round up is the cause of autism, remember that correlation is not causation.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kjh2110/the-10-most-bizarre-correlations

[yellow]

Nevermind that Dr Seneff is a computer scientist.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/

I'm not pro- or anti-anything because there is too much I don't know or understand. However, I do believe in real science.

http://www.compoundchem.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spotting-Bad-Science.pdf

[Eden]

sigh…

and let us not forget that in 1975 autism was only the diagnosis in the most profound and defined cases, while these days many things that would have been labeled with other names are now all called "autism spectrum disorder" so it is specious to even begin your argument that diagnosis are up at a rate that is out of control and growing with really, really thoroughly examining what we call autism and how it's diagnosed today as compared to earlier years. In fact… even to this day autism is a diagnosis that can *only* be made through observation of behavior - there is no blood test for it, no radiological exam that can prove or disprove it. If a biomarker of some type is ever discovered, we may find that what we call autism today is a group of disorders with similar behaviors or we may find that even more people have it on a broad spectrum of mild to severe - but at this point no one knows.

[Crankin]

As a person who actually deals with autism in the professional world, I say be very careful what you believe. We now have a whole generation of kids who are getting whooping cough because someone didn't vaccinate his/her kid. Truth is, there are a lot of neuroscientists and cognitive specialists trying to figure out what causes autism spectrum disorders. While we've come a long way from blaming a "cold mother" for ASD, we still don't know the answers. ASD has always been around, as have depression, PTSD, and ADHD. Back in the day, we just threw those people out of school, families kept them at home, or they ended up in state institutions. And we didn't talk about it, either. I am not advocating a return to that, just pointing out that numbers are skewed when looking at prevalence of mental health or brain disorders. We simply didn't acknowledge them, even when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s.

[Eden]

We have had a resurgence and some outbreaks of pertussis and measles here, especially in certain communities because of vaccine dissenters and geography.

[salsabike]

Those are two really good references, yellow. Thanks.

[smilingcat]

hmm went to her web site with links to refereed papers... It's not in New England Journal of Medicine, not in Science, not in ... I surely would not call entropy a research and peer reviewed publication. And Journal of Toxicology is kind of iffy if you ask me. And the places where she has given a talk isn't at a research conference where the papers were reviewed crtically.

maybe I've been hood winked somewhat.

But I think its worth talking about it. I think Eden is right, we recognized only the most extreme form of Autism in the past. And what if we use the same metric as today, would the number have gone up, stayed the same?? I don't know.

We also need to look at the benefit against the harm it may cause. In case of vaccination, it seems it does more good than bad. Its just that people forget how bad things were before anti-biotics. Go to a street in India, and if someone is coughing up a storm, everyone will steer clear of him by 100 feet or more, less they get TB.

[Jolt]

We also need to look at the benefit against the harm it may cause. In case of vaccination, it seems it does more good than bad. Its just that people forget how bad things were before anti-biotics. Go to a street in India, and if someone is coughing up a storm, everyone will steer clear of him by 100 feet or more, less they get TB.

Well said...the benefits (not getting all these diseases) outweigh the small risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccines. As for autism, I am no expert on the subject but I do think, like others, that part of what we are seeing is that it is diagnosed/acknowledged more now. And, if it really is becoming more prevalent, maybe there is something in the environment that is contributing to that--but vaccines aren't it.

[DebSP]

Just an interesting story for you. My ex had a brother that had a bad reaction to his vaccinations in the late 50s. He died. The doctors told his mom it wouldn't happen again. When the next brother had his vaccines, he had the exact same reaction. Doctors told his mom she was imaging it until they had to perform a tracheotomy on him. When my ex came along they decided not to vaccinate him at all. He has never had any. I told my doctor this and they made the decision to delay the vaccines with my children until they were over 6 months of age. I believe it was primarily the whooping cough vaccine that they suspected. Was it just a bizarre coincidence or is there some genetic problem or bad vaccine? We will never know but it was not enough of a worry for me to leave my children unprotected against all the diseases that vaccines protect against.

[Crankin]

I am not saying that there aren't bad reactions to vaccines, but those reactions are allergic in nature; they have not been been proven to cause ASD. My oldest son had the "unusual high pitched crying" side effect mentioned after his first DPT shot, at age 3 months, with a fever. So, we decided not to give him the "P" part of the rest of the series. Flash forward 13 years and he came home from summer camp with a never ending allergy thing, that morphed into what we thought was bronchitis. He had whooping cough. He was so sick that I thought he was going to die from not being able to breathe. It took him 3 months to recover, although he only missed a couple of weeks of school. Turns out, someone else at camp had it, but they did not get as sick as he did. My younger son did not get the pertussis part of the shot, either, but I always prayed he was never exposed to it, after the first one got sick.

[Eden]

Indeed, there most certainly can be bad vaccine reactions and probably the most common one that is serious, is allergy, especially to egg albumin, as many vaccines are cultured in eggs, but even that is pretty rare. The ASD link however was published by a researcher, Andrew Wakefield, who was subsequently proven to be a total fraud. He was banned from practicing medicine for "ethical lapses" and it wasn't just the article either…

[zoom-zoom]

When people choose not to vaccinate their kids due to completely fraudulent and unsubstantiated claims of Autism risk it says to me that they'd prefer to risk death of their child(ren) than risk that their child end up like my son or my nephew (son is high-functioning, nephew has more severe ASD). And now these anti-vaxxers put at risk those who cannot receive vaccines due to allergy or other verified risk. Herd immunity for Pertussis has been destroyed in a community just hours from us. And Polio has made its return in some areas, too. Only those who never knew anyone disabled for life by Polio would choose to shun that vaccine.

People wearing tinfoil hats need to be sequestered on an island far away from the rest of us who choose to not be Science-deniers. Right now my asthmatic self is nervous about going out in public because our area's flu outbreak has been deemed at epidemic levels. Even with the flu shot, if I catch the flu it guarantees that I will require nebulizer breathing treatments and almost certain development of pneumonia.

[Crankin]

Well said, Zoom-Zoom. While my asthma is almost never an issue now, I had the flu about 20 years ago and it did turn into pneumonia. I had a 104 degree fever for 4 days, was on anti-biotics for 6 weeks, and I had to take 8 weeks off from my job teaching classes at the gym, although I returned to regular job after a week. I coughed for 2 months. This was a real lesson to me. I'm not someone who is a germaphobic (in fact, quite the opposite), but in flu season I become fanatic about negating my risks. I am quite sure if I didn't, and I got the flu, I'd be going down the same path as you.