How many calories do you need to replace on a long ride?

[kajero]

I wound up riding 60 miles on my ride last week. As per usual the ride was longer than I had planned because I got lost four times. :rolleyes: Just so you all know . . . I have maps, it's just that I can never find the turnoffs I am supposed to take. One of the times I got lost was because the trail was under water. If there were detour signs I didn't see them so I guessed where to go and headed out in the general direction.

I need to lose about 15 pounds. If I burned 2300 calories on that ride, how many calories do I need to replace?

I know I need to stop and replenish myself. How many miles into the ride should I do that? How much should I eat? How many calories should I eat? Below is what I brought along to eat:
- I made a snack bag of almonds, raisins, pecans, and sunflower seeds.
- an orange, an apple and a banana. The banana was a gift from a another cyclists who told me that I looked like I needed it.
- An egg salad sandwich
- And of course, I had to stop and have a dish of Sebastian's famous ice cream -- which I should not have done, but after getting lost four times. I deserved a treat!

I know I need to do something because after I finished all my food I was bonked and barely made the last 9 miles home.

I drink a lot of liquid when I ride. That's normal for me as I will drink around 10-12 cups of water a day when I an not riding just because I am thirsty. I haven't had any problems from drinking that much except for going to bathroom a lot.

I cannot ride one handed so stopping and getting off the bike to eat/drink is an absolute must for me. I don't need any more broken bones or concussions.

One would think I would know all this stuff by now. I wish I did!

[Eden]

There is some debate, but it is thought that most people's digestive systems can only process about 150-300 calories per hour, so eating more than that when exercising will simply give you digestive woes.

[Owlie]

I wound up riding 60 miles on my ride last week. As per usual the ride was longer than I had planned because I got lost four times. :rolleyes: Just so you all know . . . I have maps, it's just that I can never find the turnoffs I am supposed to take. One of the times I got lost was because the trail was under water. If there were detour signs I didn't see them so I guessed where to go and headed out in the general direction.

I need to lose about 15 pounds. If I burned 2300 calories on that ride, how many calories do I need to replace?

I know I need to stop and replenish myself. How many miles into the ride should I do that? How much should I eat? How many calories should I eat? Below is what I brought along to eat:
- I made a snack bag of almonds, raisins, pecans, and sunflower seeds.
- an orange, an apple and a banana. The banana was a gift from a another cyclists who told me that I looked like I needed it.
- An egg salad sandwich
- And of course, I had to stop and have a dish of Sebastian's famous ice cream -- which I should not have done, but after getting lost four times. I deserved a treat!

I know I need to do something because after I finished all my food I was bonked and barely made the last 9 miles home.

I drink a lot of liquid when I ride. That's normal for me as I will drink around 10-12 cups of water a day when I an not riding just because I am thirsty. I haven't had any problems from drinking that much except for going to bathroom a lot.

I cannot ride one handed so stopping and getting off the bike to eat/drink is an absolute must for me. I don't need any more broken bones or concussions.

One would think I would know all this stuff by now. I wish I did!

Don't feel too bad. Getting nutrition right is a real process of trial and error, and, I think, doubly so if you're trying to lose weight.

A couple things jump out at me: That's a lot of food while you're riding. I'm like a Boy Scout and bring extra, but that's a lot. And some of it is pretty heavy, so I wonder if you felt terrible in part because you're diverting a lot of energy back into your digestive system while you're trying to get home. I once ate a grilled ham and cheese sandwich and got back on the bike about 10-15 minutes after finishing my lunch. Never again, I tell you. I was surprised I made it back without puking.

That's also a lot of water. (I drink tons while I ride, especially now that I'm living in a desert, so no need to justify that!) You go through what you go through. Just make sure you're also replenishing electrolytes if you sweat a lot. (Nuun, Skratch, Clif's thing...heck, even Gatorade or Powerade, even though they really only contain sugar and sodium.)

What do you eat before and after you ride? What you eat even the day before a long ride can play a part. A light dinner the night before followed by even a normal breakfast that morning can leave me feeling underfueled, no matter what I bring with me.

Like I mentioned above, for me, what makes the biggest difference is what I eat before I ride. I need a mix of protein, fat and carbs, about half an hour to an hour before I head out the door, plus the time in the car. (Do not eat a salad (even with tuna) and go out riding with people who are much faster. It will end badly.) What I eat on the ride is largely gravy. Metaphorical gravy, of course. (I'm waiting for someone to make a gravy-flavored gel. Urgh.) I have a hard time eating anything more food-like than a Clif bar on rides, and even more so when it's hot, but... I do blocks, beans and bars. If I'm doing anything more than 40 miles, I like having somewhere to stop for lunch (and a rest-and-digest period) planned in, or having beef jerky with me.

When and how often are pretty individual. I used the rail-trail system extensively, and on most of my rides, I figured out where to stop based on road crossings. (I can't ride one-handed either.) You could do it that way, or time-wise, say, and snack every half-hour.

I'm a little concerned about the egg salad sandwich from a food safety standpoint, though!

[Crankin]

Everyone is different, but that does seem like a lot of food. I also carefully plan my pre-ride dinner and breakfast for long rides (above 40 miles). My breakfast always includes 2 eggs, fruit, and a whole wheat bagel, or a slice of toast. On rides, I eat Lara Bars and supplement with Shot Blocks. That's all. If my energy is lagging, a Shot Block really helps me on long rides. If there's a lunch stop, I find it hard to eat, so I choose carefully. If I bring a lunch. it's a whole wheat bagel with almond butter and sometimes jelly.
I often am ravenous after a long ride. I eat a carb/protein snack within an hour, and then try to wait until dinner. I usually can't, so I do snack a bit more on salty and healthy carbs; cheese and crackers usually does it.

[Veronica]

You said you did 60 miles, but how long did it take? We did a 26 mile ride yesterday in just about two hours and all I had was about a half a bottle of Gu Brew and water, no solid food. If we had been planning a longer ride, I would have started eating at about the 90 minute mark. On a long ride I try to eat a little bit every 30 minutes. I have a Bento box by my handlebars with food just dumped into it, usually Jelly Bellies, that I can easily grab while riding. That sounds like a lot of food to me. That's about how much solid food I would eat while doing a 200K, which would take between 10 and 11 hours including a meal stop

I think hours spent riding is just as important as the miles. On my mountain bike a four hour ride is only 24 miles or so, but I need the same amount of food as a 4 hour road ride. :D

Veronica

[Eden]

Hmmm just a thought - have you had your blood sugar checked recently? Increased thirst and urination can be signs that you are developing diabetes. That could also explain some of your intake vs energy problems - if your body isn't properly accessing what you are eating.

[kajero]

LOL . . . it took me a long time! I won't say how long. I only average 10-12 mph. Then getting lost is so frustrating that I tend to take a lot of looonnnnggg breaks!
It's a really hilly, curvy ride and there are couple of hills I don't even bother to try to ride up. I will just get too tired for the rest of the ride. But I do love the ride. I ride out to my Dad's grave at Ft. Snelling. I am going to ride it one more time this summer on the anniversary of his passing. I know I won't get lost so it will be interesting if my time improves.

Also, on a few of the trails there are quite a few stop signs. And believe me if you go through them it's very possible you can get a $150 ticket. The cops will ticket a clipped rider that doesn't put one foot on the ground to stop.

BTW . . . I didn't do much better on the MS150. It took me nearly 6 hours to ride the 75 miles.

We did ride the Dakota Trail one day which is almost completely flat. Even on a trail like that I only averaged 13 mph and it seems I was going so fast. Ugh.

I have been thinking about going clip less, but right now I don't have an income and it seems really expensive to go that way. I am also very scare of another crash.

Sometimes I think I am tired before I even start out. I don't seem to be able to get to sleep very well nor sleep through the night. I get up at 5:00 a.m. two or three days a week to take care of my grandson. I am done at 4:00 and get home around 4:30 and then it seems I can't fall asleep until almost midnight. . Believe me, at 63 years old, I get tired, but I love being with him.

[ny biker]

For eating and drinking, I highly recommend Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guide Book. She covers it all in a fast-to-read format.

http://www.nancyclarkrd.com/books/sportsnutrition.asp

I generally aim for 200-300 calories per hour during a ride, with a bigger-than-usual breakfast and dinner before a long ride. Lately I find that a snack (130-calorie cereal bar) is helpful about 15 minutes before I start to ride. I drink 1 20-oz. bottle per hour, alternating between Gatorade and water. During the summer I include one or two packets of high-sodium gel (Power Gel) as part of my food during the ride. Many regular sports gels and chews, and some drinks like Gatorade, actually do not have very much sodium in them. I'm not able to tolerate much real food during a ride, just cereal bars (Nutri-Grain bars), crackers and occasionally a tomato sandwich. However real foods take longer to digest and get into your blood stream, wheareas the gels and chews take effect more quickly so I feel less hungry.

[Grits]

I second the Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition book. It is excellent and will provide you with some good guidelines.

[shootingstar]

Kajero, I probably ride just as slow on such a distance with hills. Not clear how much breakfast you had, but for 60 miles (100 km., tell yourself that instead. :)), I tend to have a bigger breakfast and finish brekkie at least 1.5 hrs. before I start cycling.

I have never been able nor wanted to eat / drink while riding. And I have been cycling for last 23 consecutive years. I need to stop, even if only for 15 min. to eat and drink. Not worry about whether or not I'm going to fall or swallow something correctly while cycling. I need to completely relax to eat and digest properly.

So it would be at least stopping 1-2 times before lunch like meal. And that meal needs to be for me, 1 hr. stop. Thereafter might be 1-2 more stops with eating/ washroom. No, I don't eat every hr. during such distance of a ride. That's just me.

I would have had a sandwich equivalent or hey small veggie sushi roll, 1 fruit and drink for the largest meal. Snacks would be other small fruit, a granola bar, a handful of nuts, natural fruit juice, etc. I don't eat gels, drink sports drinks, etc.

Maybe next time bring the same amount food but make it different, but don't feel obligated to eat it all. Better to have some handy (lighter?) food instead of underestimating by not enough food. I've been on rides where we rode for long stretches in rural areas and no stores. Pretty scary.

[roo4]

Well, just to underline the "everyone is different" theme, I generally have a peanut butter and honey sandwich with coffee as my pre-ride meal. Then I take two water bottles with Heed if it is under 3 hours and Perpetuum if the ride is longer. I limit on the bike snacking--it tends to make me feel sluggish. I'll take a gel along for emergencies and sometimes the club stops at a bakery that is too good to pass up--that's not really a nutritional requirement, but yum.

[kajero]

Oh dear, it looks like I can add my poor eating habits to my getting lost adventures. That way I can be really frustrated! :rolleyes:

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, intensity is really key to how much you need to eat during a ride. I might eat that much on a hilly century. Are you sure you bonked, or was it something else? What were your symptoms? I always suspect hyponatremia since I'm so very prone to it myself, and since it doesn't sound like you got much sodium outside of your sandwich. Remember you need to replace at least 500 mg sodium per liter of water, and along the lines of "everyone's different," that's a minimum, some people lose much more, especially if they're not heat acclimated.

[Crankin]

I would get some blood work done, Kajero. You should not be that tired. I am only 2 years younger than you, I get up at 4:45 2X a week to go to boot camp, and then I go to work for 5-9 hours. I do need to sleep later (but not by much, always up by 6:15 or so) on the other days. You can't be your best if you aren't sleeping. No wonder you are tired. There's lots of reasons for sleep problems; get a check up and if everything comes back all clear, do some reading on sleep hygiene. A lot of sleep disturbance comes from not being able to slow our brains down; my prescription to my clients is meditation on a regular basis.

[kajero]

Thank you for the advice, Crankin. I have had the doctor's check my blood and thyroid. I got a Lyme disease tick bite two years ago but they can't tell if it is Lyme disease. They can't find anything else. I think I know what causes me not to sleep; I just need to address it. Once I do that I expect I will sleep well and not be so tired. I just can't seem to motivate myself to follow my guidelines. I think I may start soon. You people are so darn helpful I don't want to let you to down. If you are going to spend time helping me out I need to thank you by taking, no USING, your advice.

I do get tired though when I play with my grandson for 8 hours. And I do mean I play with him! And the kid never takes a nap! If you want, you look at my photos on my webpage and you see it. I will need to give you the password so please let me know.

[emily_in_nc]

I think hours spent riding is just as important as the miles. On my mountain bike a four hour ride is only 24 miles or so, but I need the same amount of food as a 4 hour road ride. :D

I was going to ask the same thing. If you're riding 10 mph and doing the ride in 6 hours, that's quite different from riding 15 mph and doing it in 4 hours, or 20 mph and doing it in 3 hours. :eek:

I go by time only. I always try to eat my first snack at about 90 minutes in. My snacks are usually whole grain fig bars, homemade oatmeal bars DH makes, or store bought granola bars. After the first snack, I eat every hour. I usually consume one water bottle (20 oz) of Gatoraid and my Camelbak full of water (50 oz) during a 40-50 mile ride. If it's especially hot or we're going longer, I'll stop for an additional beverage (16-20 oz of something with sugar and caffeine, like Coke -- only time I drink soda). Once or twice a week, DH and I will stop for a treat while riding, maybe a DQ Blizzard (I get a small sized one) or a cinnamon roll or a couple of homemade cookies from a bakery. I should mention that I am at my ideal weight now and am maintaining it at doing this. If I were trying to lose, the treats would go bye-bye! :D

I have never analyzed calories on a ride or anything like this, but it seems to work for me most of the time. The only time I've gotten into trouble lately was a HOT ride where I left the Camelbak behind so only had one 20 oz water bottle. I thought we'd be stopping for a drink along the way, but the route was so rural there were no opportunities. I felt like crap at the end of the ride and had to drink a LOT to re-hydrate after. That would not be a problem for you. If anything, you're overdoing it with the liquids just a bit.

[kajero]

I went on 42.75 mile ride today and I DIDN'T BONK! :D The miles should have been less, but as usual I got lost. I followed nearly all of everyone’s suggestions. SO THANK YOU EVERYONE! :) I didn’t do the “organic stuff” but relied on Gatorade and one energy bar. (From my earlier post you can see I honestly thought I needed to replace the calories I was burning during the ride.)

I got a good night’s sleep last night. I ate a good breakfast 90 minutes before I left. I hydrated myself before I left. I stopped to drink only when I felt I was really thirsty, but didn’t drink too much. About 90 minutes into the ride, I stopped and had some Gatorade and my energy bar. I continued to ride again only stopping when I thought I needed water. Later on I had some more Gatorade and made it home WITHOUT BONKING! I've had my shower and I still feel great!

I averaged 11.5 mph which is really good for me because usually it is around 10.5 mph or so. I need to look into clips or straps. My feet slid off the pedals too many times and I think my mph might get better if I didn’t keep losing the pedals. I would probably be less frustrated, too.

Now, if you could help me with one more thing . . . No matter how many maps I have, no matter how much I study the route before I leave, no matter how many people give me directions when I ask, and no matter how observant I think I am being of the trail directions, I ALWAYS GET LOST if it is an unfamiliar trail! You can see my route here http://connect.garmin.com/activity/558995134 and you can see how many extra miles I went to get Elm Creek. I must traversed one part of trail six times before I figured out I wasn’t going far enough to get anywhere! I REALLY NEED A NICKNAME — maybe “The Biggest Lost-Her”? Suggestions are welcome.

Coming home was great. I just followed The Three Rivers Regional Trail out of the Elm Creek Park to Medicine Lake. Too bad I couldn’t do it on the way there.

[Crankin]

If you are recording your rides on a GPS, then can you look on Ride With GPS for rides in your area, that you can download and follow? Or, if you don't have a GPS, you can at least print out the cue sheet from any ride you see, that you like.

[emily_in_nc]

Congratulations on not bonking and getting your food/drink intake figured out! That's great.

Definitely sounds like clipless pedals would help. I can't imagine riding without them (other than on a MTB on singletrack). I think you'll find you get speed/efficiency gains once you get used to them.

As far as the getting lost thing, if you don't want to buy a bike GPS (and they are pricey -- I don't have one either), I am not sure what to advise. I get lost too, at times, if I am riding in unfamiliar areas. Some people are just less spatially inclined than others. If it's any comfort, my DH, who is really good with directions usually, got lost around 7 times on his way back from riding the Centennial Trail in Washington State. He did not carry a map with him and assumed he could find his way following the signage, but it was confusing. Every time it went off trail and onto roads, he missed a turn or took a wrong one, it seemed. If it's a trail you haven't ridden before and not well-signed, it can be challenging to find your way. So maybe just give yourself a break? And print out the maps and carry them along if you can.

[kajero]

Thanks

It is nice to know I am not the only lost one! My friends all say it would be a bike ride if I didn't get lost! However, they also said one day I might get so lost they may never find me! :D The positive things that happen when I get lost are I do get extra miles ridden and I will know the way for next time. Hopefully!

And, oh yes, make sure you put maps you print out are entirely enclosed in your plastic sandwich bag BEFORE you put them in your jersey pocket. Because if you don't . . when you sweat the ink on the maps runs kind of making the map hard to read!

[Crankin]

Kajero, buy a plastic cue sheet holder that has velcro straps that you can put on your bar. The map or cue sheet goes inside, you can look at it, and it doesn't get wet. Most LBS's have them, or go online. They are not expensive. And again, you can print out cue sheets from Ride With GPS if you search for rides in your area. I have found lots of good rides this way, even before I had the GPS.

[ny biker]

Kajero, buy a plastic cue sheet holder that has velcro straps that you can put on your bar. The map or cue sheet goes inside, you can look at it, and it doesn't get wet. Most LBS's have them, or go online. They are not expensive. And again, you can print out cue sheets from Ride With GPS if you search for rides in your area. I have found lots of good rides this way, even before I had the GPS.

I have both of these Bar Map holders. I usually use the smaller one, but sometimes the layout of the cue sheet makes the larger one the better choice.

http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodBM_H.html

http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodBM_S.html

As for getting lost on trails -- I've done that too. The feeder trails that connect the main trail to adjoining roads in this area are sometimes not marked well, so you end up making a wrong turn and having to double back. For paved trails and roads, I find it helpful if I can look at the route in advance on a mapping site like ridewithgps, so I can picture the general layout in my head. (For off-road trails, I just have no sense of direction at all, which is one reason I don't go mountain biking alone.)

[azfiddle]

Glad the suggestions worked for you! I read the posts, but didn't add anything. I usually eat a bowl of oatmeal or half a bagel, and start "refueling" about 60-90 minutes in to the ride. 200 calories an hour or so, and I drink an electrolyte mixed with water for my 2nd bottle on hot days.

[kajero]

Woo! Woo! I went riding today. I dunno -- maybe I should put this in a thread by itself. I am SO happy. :D

My SO and I went on a 14.58 mi ride today. I AVERAGED 14.4 mph! I have never come even close to this!

I did not bonk.


I attribute my successful happy ride to everyone's advice and suggestions!
I got a really night's sleep!
I ate the, hopefully, a proper breakfast one hour and 15 minutes before we left.
I really hydrated myself before we left.
We stopped at 30 minutes and I had a snack and sports drink. (We weren't going to be on the trail 90 minutes this time because I wasn't going 10 mph!)
And then when we got back my Garmin Edge 500 gave me all that neat news!
I also wore sunglasses on this ride and my last ride. Could this possibly be helping with not "bonking"?

We also studied the trail map over and over again. We made sure we knew where the turns were and what direction we should turn! If you look at my ride you can see we didn't backtrack ever.

My ride is here: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/565753385

I still don't think I could have done that with ut all of the advice you wonderful cyclists offered!
And I felt so good when I got home I washed my bike. I love my white Ruby Elite but I am not so sure buying a white bike is the best for keeping clean. :rolleyes:
Now I have other questions . . .but that's another thread!

[marni]

first of all........., Congratul;ations on your successful ride. There's nothing quite like getting it all right and getting a good speed on top of that!

You mentioned that you wore sunglasses for the first time so I will offer a bit of learned and inherited wisdom. Remember that it is hard to ride a bike if you are blind. The sun and road glare CAN and will over time cause damage to your eyes . My optometrist has mentioned damage from excessive dryness and macular degeneration among other things. Sunglasses help to keep your outlook a bit cooler ( mind over matter) protect your eyes from bugs and wind and flying bits of debris and with so many styles for both prescription and non prescription eye wear, you can develop a "look" as an added bonus.

Re calories you burned. Recovery is not only about after the ride, but the next day as well. You don't have to run a muck but do make sure you get your full allotment of nutritional calories for the next couple of days to get everything flushed and refilled. Drink lots of water and focus on anti-inflammatory foods as well as the proper balance of protein, fat and dense (whole complex) carbohydrates to restore and replenish everything you used.
And about washing your bike. Perhaps with the newer carbon models a clean bike is not so important as I don't think your sweat can actually damage them or cause rust, but it can cause sticky situation depending on where it lands. I have found that a good cool down /recovery exercise after the bike ride is to grab my recovery drink or snack and spend 15 minutes examining and prepping my bike while I eat or drink. My routine includes checking the tires for nicks and cuts. Adding inflation as needed, wiping down the tire surface and the rim area that the brakes touch, scrubbing of the braking surfaces with a clean rag, wiping the chain and rear derailleur jockey wheels, checking the brake levers to make sure I have closed them, wiping down the rear crank and clip surfaces, and wiping the bike down on all areas where sweat and sticky energy drink might have dripped or flown and generally gibing it a pat on the rump.

Perhaps it seems a bit excessive but I will say I have ridden several cross country rides of 2500 miles of more without ever having a flat tire, brake problem or derailleur problem. I find the routine marginally mindless and soothing plus it ensures that all the salty sweat rings I leave are out in the garage and not in the house.

just my two cents worth.

[kajero]

I have found that a good cool down /recovery exercise after the bike ride is to grab my recovery drink or snack and spend 15 minutes examining and prepping my bike while I eat or drink. My routine includes checking the tires for nicks and cuts. Adding inflation as needed, wiping down the tire surface and the rim area that the brakes touch, scrubbing of the braking surfaces with a clean rag, wiping the chain and rear derailleur jockey wheels, checking the brake levers to make sure I have closed them, wiping down the rear crank and clip surfaces, and wiping the bike down on all areas where sweat and sticky energy drink might have dripped or flown and generally gibing it a pat on the rump.


Thanks for all this wonderful advice. I am going to do a better job "washing my bike." All I did was check the tires, wipe off the chain, clean the entire frame and scrub the handle bars. I used a toothbrush to get into areas that I couldn't reach with my rag. I have blue tape on the handle bars so grime doesn't show. I never imagined how grimy those handle bars can get. I did half heartedly wipe the rim area but I think I will put more effort into it next time!

And this entire cleaning time took me nearly 15 minutes! I doubt I will do this every time because I don't seem to ride more than 60 miles (when I get lost) at a time.

I usually check the brakes, cranks, and pedals before I ride. I now realize that is kind of stupid. If there is something wrong, I won't be able to ride. If I do those checks before I put the bike away, I will be ready for the next ride after rechecking them all again before I go!