Crazy Condo Neighbors

[Trek420]

We have a remodeling thread, we also have crazy drivers thread. While this is about someone acting crazy, and relates to owning a home it fits neither. Hence a new thread. If you have a crazy condo association, feel free to chime in :rolleyes:

After I sold the California home, Knott and I began looking in earnest for something here. We love our neighborhood but did not think we could afford to own here. One day, while walking the dogs, I saw a small unit that looked like the owners were prepping for sale. We contacted our agent, yes, they are about to list. We bid, held our breath and we got it! It's small, quirky, has character, ground floor end unit so we can garden a tad (a requirement I'd had), friendly neighbors, GREAT area but there is just one thing that should have been disclosed in the MLS. "You're upstairs neighbor is crazy".

[ny biker]

Heh. I could write a book on this. I'm currently the only owner living in my building -- the other 5 units are rented out. No doubt they all think I'm the crazy one, since I tend to insist that they follow the trash rules and I spray the hallway with air freshener every time they fill it with the odor of whatever the hell it is that they are cooking. (Seriously people, why don't you ever eat anything that actually smells appetizing?? Not to mention, if you put decent weather stripping around your door, you'd save money on heating and the rest of us wouldn't have to know that you burned the eggs.)

Congrats on your new home. Have fun making it your own.

[Pax]

Not crazy but we do have "Mr. Stompy Pants" living upstairs. He's an Asian man roughly the size of my left leg, and yet he can walk with a tread that honestly sounds like he's tossing bowling balls around. To add to that he sings VERY bad karaoke at the top of his lungs, routinely. At first he was annoying, now we just sing along with him and laugh when he stomps up the stairs, we'll shout out "HEY, STOMPY'S HOME!!!"

[shootingstar]

It's been fine ...so far, in terms of neighbours. I've lived in 3 different condos for the past 25 years.

Fortunately even though the guy upstairs has an alcolhol problem, he's never made any disruptive noise. It helps he's an owner and wants to be cooperative with condo board.

[ny biker]

Not crazy but we do have "Mr. Stompy Pants" living upstairs. He's an Asian man roughly the size of my left leg, and yet he can walk with a tread that honestly sounds like he's tossing bowling balls around. To add to that he sings VERY bad karaoke at the top of his lungs, routinely. At first he was annoying, now we just sing along with him and laugh when he stomps up the stairs, we'll shout out "HEY, STOMPY'S HOME!!!"

It is fascinating how some people can make so much noise even though they don't weigh much. I've had some very petite upstairs neighbors who routinely stomped around like elephants, and larger neighbors who were very quiet.

The thing that really gets me is toilet seat slamming. I've had a couple of neighbors who are always slamming their toilet seats. I don't mean an occasional "oops, it slipped out of my hand," I'm talking about loud intentional slamming every single time they heed nature's call. I just don't understand why they do this. Are they angry at the toilet?? Does it need to be punished???

[Pax]

It is fascinating how some people can make so much noise even though they don't weigh much. I've had some very petite upstairs neighbors who routinely stomped around like elephants, and larger neighbors who were very quiet.

The thing that really gets me is toilet seat slamming. I've had a couple of neighbors who are always slamming their toilet seats. I don't mean an occasional "oops, it slipped out of my hand," I'm talking about loud intentional slamming every single time they heed nature's call. I just don't understand why they do this. Are they angry at the toilet?? Does it need to be punished???
Stompy does that too, I assumed he was opening/closing the lid by roundhouse kicking it. My mental image is of the tiny little man yelling yahhhhh in time with a crappy karaoke song, while leaping into a fabulous kick.

[Trek420]

Stompy does that too, I assumed he was opening/closing the lid by roundhouse kicking it. My mental image is of the tiny little man yelling yahhhhh in time with a crappy karaoke song, while leaping into a fabulous kick.

Does stumpy garden outside your living room or even bedroom window at zero dark thirty at night? I'd take "stompy" over crazy. ;) :cool:

[Pax]

Does stumpy garden outside your living room or even bedroom window at zero dark thirty at night? I'd take "stumpy" over crazy. ;) :cool:

No, but he does vacuum and sing at midnight. ;)

[Trek420]

No, but he does vacuum and sing at midnight. ;)

We'll trade!

I should have known she'd be trouble. The day we were moving in, I put our large wood planter on the slate front deck, propped the small bicycle sculpture in it while going back for another load. She trundled up to us and complained that she feared she'd get tetanus from the sculpture whenever she uses the nearby garden hose. That was the time for me to calmly and all friendly-like state "That's ok. WE'RE going to take care of the garden around our condo". How could we have known then, that she's obsessed with every detail of the grounds, and looking in bedroom windows?

[Pax]

We'll trade!

I should have known she'd be trouble. The day we were moving in, I put our large wood planter on the slate front deck, propped the small bicycle sculpture in it while going back for another load. She trundled up to us and complained that she feared she'd get tetanus from the sculpture whenever she uses the nearby garden hose. That was the time for me to calmly and all friendly-like state "That's ok. WE'RE going to take care of the garden around our condo". How could we have known then, that she's obsessed with every detail of the grounds, and looking in bedroom windows?
You are way nicer than me, I'd be up in her face in a heartbeat if she looked in my bedroom window.

[Crankin]

She sounds like she has something clinical going on. Really. The next time you catch her peeking in your window, call the police.

[Trek420]

She sounds like she has something clinical going on. Really. The next time you catch her peeking in your window, call the police.

She quieted down a bit since we called the police on her. :cool:

She'd made a half @zzed attempt at a break in one day while I was walking the dog. :eek: At over 75 she's not very good as a cat burglar. Probably should keep her day job; being elderly, confused and retired. So the only evidence was obvious damage to the bottom of our door. Bean, our 70 lb, veeeeeery friendly, canine good citizen certified dog, probably would not put up with her breaking in any way. she knows that too:rolleyes: The only time I've seen him growl was when she's near our window.

She's taking her role as queen of the landscaping just a little too far. This all started when we took out the dead and dying ivy. :rolleyes:

[emily_in_nc]

When we were living in our first floor condo in Belize, the man who owned the third-floor unit right above us would occasionally get in at 3 am and play his guitar...or he'd wake up really early and start playing before 6 am. Often alcohol was involved. We were amazed that sound carried right through the second floor, but it did. And the second-floor folks, when they were there (they only visited a few times a year), sounded like a herd of elephants above our head with their stomping around on the tile floors above us.

Learned our lesson. If we ever live in a condo again, it will be on the top floor.

[Helene2013]

ishhh and I was looking into selling our home (too big for us) to get a nice - high-end - condo when we retire in 6 years. Not so sure anymore. :p

[ny biker]

We have noise rules here. And a patrol officer from a security company who is on duty from 8 pm to 5 am. If someone makes noise at night, you call the patrol officer and he tells them to knock it off. If the problem continues, you can get the condo management involved.

One thing we don't have is a carpet requirement. They thought it wasn't necessary when the condo association was formed because everyone had wall-to-wall carpets back then. Now that many people have hardwood floors and noise complaints have increased, they won't institute a carpet requirement (covering 80% of the floor with rugs) because it would require a change in bylaws. So my recommendation to Helene or anyone else is to make sure your condo has a requirement to cover at least 80% of floors with rugs. It makes a big difference.

And yes, top floor units are best, if you can get one (and if it's in your price range).

[Trek420]

ishhh and I was looking into selling our home (too big for us) to get a nice - high-end - condo when we retire in 6 years. Not so sure anymore. :p

Condos can be ok. I had no problems with my neighbors in CA, and that was not as "nice" a neighborhood. Made some friends, no real issues.

We've found out our new neighbor's been here over 30 years, has a record of "hazing" new people. Some problem with anything changing, I think. They've never seen it as bad as this got but then she may have some dementia at this point.

Simply put, I will garden. It's why we bought this (also the location and low HOA). If she wanted to garden around my home, she needed to buy this home. She didn't. And of course, this means war! :rolleyes: ;)

[shootingstar]

Then consider a townhouse or something that doesn't demand you to physically look after the lawn, shovelling snow, a lot ...life doesn't get easier when one gets older.

[emily_in_nc]

ishhh and I was looking into selling our home (too big for us) to get a nice - high-end - condo when we retire in 6 years. Not so sure anymore. :p

Stick to the top floor and you should be fine. I guess you can still end up with some crazies, but at least their noise shouldn't drive you crazy!

[Helene2013]

Right. But we're not there yet! Who knows...we may be fulltimers in a motorhome (we'll be in our late 50s so enough time to enjoy life) and if we don't like the neigbhours, you can just move the rig somewhere....pretty easily. :p

[Pax]

Right. But we're not there yet! Who knows...we may be fulltimers in a motorhome (we'll be in our late 50s so enough time to enjoy life) and if we don't like the neigbhours, you can just move the rig somewhere....pretty easily. :p
That's what we're considering as well. Just travel for a while and see where we'd prefer to be.

[emily_in_nc]

Us too...I think a motorhome is our next adventure!

As for "carpet required" rules for condos, I suspect these rules are less common these days as hardwood and tile floors are much more popular than carpets and it would hurt sales if such a rule were in effect. Many older units are being upgraded with hardwoods or tile these days. In Belize, all our condo floors were tile, and boy, did the noise carry from the floor above. Even side to side, with concrete walls in between, we had a unit on one side of us and could hear them sliding furniture around, though we couldn't hear their TV or conversations. There should be laws requiring everyone in multi-family housing to use pads under their chair and table legs! We did, but no one else in our building seemed to.

[ny biker]

Us too...I think a motorhome is our next adventure!

As for "carpet required" rules for condos, I suspect these rules are less common these days as hardwood and tile floors are much more popular than carpets and it would hurt sales if such a rule were in effect. Many older units are being upgraded with hardwoods or tile these days. In Belize, all our condo floors were tile, and boy, did the noise carry from the floor above. Even side to side, with concrete walls in between, we had a unit on one side of us and could hear them sliding furniture around, though we couldn't hear their TV or conversations. There should be laws requiring everyone in multi-family housing to use pads under their chair and table legs! We did, but no one else in our building seemed to.

It's not a wall-to-wall carpet requirement, but a requirement to cover at least 80% of the floors with rugs of some kind. It's pretty standard in many apartment buildings. Unless you're on the top floor, your life is miserable without such a rule. Even on the top, you can hear more noise from downstairs and next door when there are not enough rugs. And without sufficient rug coverage, you are basically giving up all privacy because your neighbors know everything you are doing at all times. When my upstairs neighbor had only a couple of small rugs, I knew everything about her. I knew she abused her dog by locking it in a cage in the corner for most of the day. I knew when she zipped up her suitcase before leaving for a trip. I knew when she was having sex with her boyfriend (it was the only time she was quiet.)

[shootingstar]

We don't have that carpet rule where I live. I don't hear people walking upstairs. I do think my building in terms of the floor structure has been constructed to avoid much noise. Would I be bothered by children running around upstairs? No, as long as the children weren't beaten by parents. That would bother me.

I grew up surrounded by 5 siblings and have memories of crying infant sister when I was 10 yrs. old.

I think the guy upstairs cares about his place that he owns (even if he likes crashing through the muddy wilderness in his Hummer. I can see his dirty car in garage which he spends money at the car-wash.) because I think he invited a bunch of (drunk) friends for a short chat about 1 yr. ago They kept on using the bathroom... for an hr.

Thereafter I haven't heard anything. I bet he (and girlfriend I think), really didn't want people tromping all over his place using his bathroom indiscriminately.

Lest people think condo living is a terrible thing.....for certain if you will be single for a huge chunk in your life and as you age, just make sure there's someone else to look after garden, lawn, running up and down 2nd floor, basement, etc. I have a single 51 yr. sister who has a semi-detached home in Toronto. She has no children. She now has some balance problems because of an ear infection/disorder right now. And it will be long term.

[Trek420]

Stick to the top floor and you should be fine. I guess you can still end up with some crazies, but at least their noise shouldn't drive you crazy!

We're ground floor end unit. Our upstairs neighbor is nice, we rarely hear her and get along well. Our next door neighbor, also pleasant. He's a student and pretty quiet. But that could be because his parents own the unit above him also. ;)

Crazy condo lady has a penchant for over-watering randomly wherever she can. We removed 3 large plants, totally root rotted. It's been raining hard as per usual in the sunny PNW and today she was still out there watering our grounds with the public hose of the building.

We'll be removing that :mad:

[rebeccaC]

Now that many people have hardwood floors and noise complaints have increased, they won't institute a carpet requirement (covering 80% of the floor with rugs) because it would require a change in bylaws. So my recommendation to Helene or anyone else is to make sure your condo has a requirement to cover at least 80% of floors with rugs. It makes a big difference.

And yes, top floor units are best, if you can get one (and if it's in your price range).

My HOA has requirements for particular sound isolating material under a new wood floor if someone wants to replace the carpet or travertine in their unit. It works well!

[Crankin]

I would not live in a place that had a carpet requirement. My current house is 95% hardwood and I am a lot healthier!
We are in the beginning stages of thinking about what we are going to do when we sell this house, in probably 3 years. It's hard to find condos and townhouses around here, in areas we want to live in. I will consider moving to a neighboring town, but I don't want a long commute to work or a change in lifestyle. DH is 3 years younger than me and will be working for at least 5 more years, maybe more. We are leaning toward buying a small condo here, maybe even in places we wouldn't have considered before, and another condo out in the Berkshires. We just have to figure out how we will handle all of the bike stuff we have!

[OakLeaf]

I wonder how well cork flooring would reduce upstairs/downstairs noise. I expect a lot, but since we only have it downstairs I don't know. I LOVE that stuff.

[marni]

when I was in grad school I lived below a semi professional flemenco dancer and her roommate a theater major. Someone was either wailing out gypsy songs, pounding feet or declaiming whenever I was awake and home. The result is that I can pretty much sleep through anything, including the SAG guys snoring ( chain saws with in reach of the bed).

I can't remember much else about grad school.

[Trek420]

Does stumpy garden outside your living room or even bedroom window at zero dark thirty at night? I'd take "stompy" over crazy. ;) :cool:

Bumpity bumpity bump; and we're back from getting a restraining order on crazy condo lady. Legal issues so probably should not comment except to say did you know when you're reporting stalking that there is no charge to get a restraining order?

Sweet!

[OakLeaf]

Oh yikes!! Trek and Knott, so sorry you're still having to deal with that (plus whatever worse stuff you can't talk about here/now). :(

Hope the restraining order has the desired effect.

[Crankin]

This is why DH doesn't want to move to a condo.

[shootingstar]

Then what is the solution for 1 level home? Believe me, one does not want to live indepedendently in a multi-level house in the last decade or so of life. I saw what happened to my father, who was healthy (except for cancer) and mobile until 6 months before he died @ 85 yrs. last year. His bed ended up being in the living rm. as soon as you open the front door. He couldn't be upstairs.

Now we worry about our mother- she's by herself in a 3 level house with 3 bedrooms. She'll stay there --resolutely until something terrible happens.

Townhouse at least one can have less maintenance....?
A bungalow is rarer and rarer these days at least, less of them are being built in the cities where I am and have been in the past.

[Blueberry]

We have lots of one level separate homes and condos (that look more like duplexes or row houses) in our area. Some with garages. Some with HOA's that cover all exterior maintenance. Many of them are purchased by retirees.

We're house searching now (looking to buy something for med school that is less of a commute) and we're definitely considering these issues. I've ruled out stacked condos (since I wouldn't want to be on the bottom and I doubt people would want us on top) - except for a well-sound-insulated new building. We don't want a separate house because we just won't have time for the upkeep.

Hugs to Trek and Knott - i can't even imagine how frustrating that must be!

[shootingstar]

I've ruled out stacked condos (since I wouldn't want to be on the bottom and I doubt people would want us on top) - except for a well-sound-insulated new building.

Does someone play a musical instrument/music or?

Life is not perfect in a condo but I would not be interested in the upkeep for a standalone or even semi-detached home. A sister lives by herself in a 2 bedroom semi detached--2 levels. Her home. She has balance issues at times, and now is deaf in 1 ear. She ...is only 54 yrs.

[Blueberry]

Does someone play a musical instrument/music or?

Life is not perfect in a condo but I would not be interested in the upkeep for a standalone or even semi-detached home. A sister lives by herself in a 2 bedroom semi detached--2 levels. Her home. She has balance issues at times, and now is deaf in 1 ear. She ...is only 54 yrs.

We both ride bike trainers, we have pets (including a 100+ pound dog who is with us sometimes) who run around, and DH is one of those people whose "walking sounds" would suggest that he is far heavier than he is.

Some of the semi-detached homes here have HOA's that maintain everything on the outside. You just worry about the inside. They're set up as condos legally, but they look like houses.

[smilingcat]

Trek and Knott,

My heart goes out to both of you. No one should put up with such non-sense and hope that the restraining order will do something. And maybe as you say, she is in early stages of dementia. As awful as it may sound, it may be better for her if her dementia advances quickly. I think its more cruel for people to linger in stages of dementia. There is no quality of life to the person nor to the family.

Something is really wrong with our culture when the "trouble maker" is allowed to go on with their business, while consciencious neighbor has to tolerate/put up with the CRAP.

[Crankin]

We have quite a few of those, too, but I've heard the crazy neighbor issues get even thornier with just one other HOA member.
We are leaning toward just buying a smaller home. There aren't too many one level homes here, and I'm good with that. If I need to move again when I'm 85, well, my kids can deal with that...
There is an over 55 community about 3 miles from here, in Acton. Detached patio homes, with a great floor plan (our neighbors moved to one with the same design in Sudbury). I have sworn I would not move to one an age restricted community, and what's worse, it's on a golf course, not my kind of people. But, it's detached, has a 2 car garage, and a basement that can be finished. Bedroom on main floor, one upstairs, and a huge loft that could be an exercise space. Also, a study and full dining room and eat in kitchen, along with great room. The price is right, but they are almost sold out. I just can't get myself to move this year.

[shootingstar]

We both ride bike trainers, we have pets (including a 100+ pound dog who is with us sometimes) who run around, and DH is one of those people whose "walking sounds" would suggest that he is far heavier than he is.

Some of the semi-detached homes here have HOA's that maintain everything on the outside. You just worry about the inside. They're set up as condos legally, but they look like houses.

Sounds like a solution, Blueberry. And understandable especially with bike trainers. We live near major bike-ped. paths that go more than 30 km. long and connect up to routes, in Calgary and Vancouver. So no need for bike trainers for us. Interesting about the dog. In Vancouver, our highrise condo does have quite a number of dog owners --both big and small. We do see dog walkers with multiple leashes coming out of the elevator..that's how I know about a lot of dogs.

Seems like dog owners in condos and apartments have trained dog not to bark hardly at all or its something else. There's a dog that is in the unit above me. I hardly hear it bark. I don't mind if a dog barks occasionally but not left alone all day to bark. I actually consider ok for some owners in condo building, to have a well trained, cared-for dog....they are another measure of security for the building. I personally know of 2 different people where their dog, alerted a home invader by barking forever.

Also outside the front door of building, is a doggie dish most times, with water. There are also hooks to temporarily tie up dog on leash for a few min. But not for long, because your dog might get stolen. Seriously, this happens in Vancouver at times.

Just make sure you live near a park, it motivates dog owners to walk their dog, get them to go to washroom...and keeps home building clean. :)

I've lived in condo buildings for the past 24 years...3 different cities. It helps if the condo /strata board has a healthy, large reserve fund and there's also a well-run, reputable management property company that does stuff that volunteer board members don't have time. It helps to be part of a bigger development with more unit owners to share the cost of common expenses for repairs, etc.

Crankin, I totally agree about feeling confined to buy into a retirement community and surrounded by same age group people thinking in same generation ways. Maybe if you're just on the edge of the development instead..

This is why I am a strong, strong proponent of neighbourhoods for multi-generations/families, designed for walkability, cycleability and lower car traffic speeds where key services, shops and transit are within 15 min. walk 1 way. (We won't be able to drive in last decade of life.... and there's more and more of us who don't have children to help. Demographics across North America show this.) https://cyclewriteblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/what-shapes-me-walkable-cycleable-neighbourhoods/ If surburbs offers all this, great. If not, in the last phase of life, no. It's a huge disadvantage unless you have someone transport you all over the place to do chores, shop for even milk, access services.

My doctor is only a 15 min. walk. Same for dentist..just another extra 5 min. In Vancovuer it's 15 min. walk for each doctor, dentist and another extra 5 min. to pharmacy. The hospital there is ....a 20 min. walk...where I was hospitalized for my head injury. My partner walked home with my busted bike from the fire station (only 10 min. walk way) where the firefighters stored my bike.

Do I mind occasionally, hearing a child cry, etc.? No, as long as the kid is not being beaten up. After all, I grew up with 5 other siblings. You get used to sounds .....of life. I realize retirement communities may provide in house social activities....but honestly for me, I like being and living with a broader range of ages for sharing ideas, etc. The cycling community over the decades, has provided that for me.

My mother will get a good deal for house...when it must be sold. Over 15 years ago, my parents bought into a walkable, cycleable neighbourhood. Public school across the street. Grocery store is just 5 min. walk down the street. Another 5 min., there are cafes. There are bike lanes on their street in last 10 years. They chose this location.....because 2 of their adult children don't drive. So home had to be close to transit. This is in Toronto.

[Crankin]

The place I am referring to is not a retirement community, per se, in that there are no "activities," medical care, or different levels of living as you get near the end. It looks like any regular patio home/townhome development (of which there are scant few around here), but you have to be 55 and over to live there. Many move there while still working. This seems to be a growing trend. Ideally, I'd love to find a small ranch or Cape in west Concord, where I can walk to restuarants and a drug store (but not grocery, except a natural foods place). However, it is hard to find a house in that category that doesn't need major work and the cost is high. If we go one town over, I would be back in the regional community my kids grew up in, and there is a growing village center in one area that might work. I could walk to drug store, farm market, a couple of restaurants, yoga, and a whole bunch of new places. Depending where in this area I was, I could also walk to my doctor and major grocery store. I had a little nasty incident on my neighborhood list serve today, and I am quite ready to leave this town. It's nothing important, but I've never felt like I've belonged here, despite the fact I moved only 9 miles. After almost 10 years, it shouldn't be like this.

[Blueberry]

I'm not hesitating because of issues with the building or the HOA, just because I wouldn't want to make life frustrating for my neighbors. Said dog is an elder statesman and quite the gentleman. He has been approved everywhere we have asked. But he can walk heavily. And my cats run around and chase their toys.

We have outside riding space too - but I will have a potentially odd schedule for a while, and getting in some exercise inside is nice.

[shootingstar]

Said dog is an elder statesman and quite the gentleman. He has been approved everywhere we have asked. But he can walk heavily. And my cats run around and chase their toys.


I envision a cute homey scene at your end, Blueberry. No matter where you move. :)

[zoom-zoom]

This thread confirms that my "retirement dream" is a 1 story on an acre or two in the desert. No lawn/trees to maintain and no neighbors breathing down my neck. We're currently in an unmemorable subdivision (.25-.4 acre lots) with far too many nosey and cliquey people who are very concerned with keeping up appearances and I feel a not-too-subtle competitive vibe over who has the nicest house and the best cars (one look in our garage confirms that we would not win the car competition, but no one can hold a candle to our 2-wheeled collection, heh). The guy who bought the house next-door (and put it up for sale 6 months later) had his lot tilled...but the landscapers ignored lot lines and drove over at least half of the native wildflower seeds I'd planted the Summer before. He never planted an actual lawn and only about once/month mowed the weeds, so it's been a constant battle to keep his yard from encroaching on ours -- and I really loathe dealing with a lawn, much less even faster-growing weeds and the chemicals necessary to keep them from killing our grass and settling into my flower beds.

Yeah, I really find myself wanting to become a hermit more and more. DH feels the same way. We're both homebodies who are happy riding our bikes and vegging on the sofa in front of Netflix. The vast majority of our socialization involves other runners and cyclists.

[shootingstar]

This thread confirms that my "retirement dream" is a 1 story on an acre or two in the desert. No lawn/trees to maintain and no neighbors breathing down my neck. We're currently in an unmemorable subdivision (.25-.4 acre lots) with far too many nosey and cliquey people who are very concerned with keeping up appearances and I feel a not-too-subtle competitive vibe over who has the nicest house and the best cars (one look in our garage confirms that we would not win the car competition, but no one can hold a candle to our 2-wheeled collection, heh). The guy who bought the house next-door (and put it up for sale 6 months later) had his lot tilled...but the landscapers ignored lot lines and drove over at least half of the native wildflower seeds I'd planted the Summer before. He never planted an actual lawn and only about once/month mowed the weeds, so it's been a constant battle to keep his yard from encroaching on ours -- and I really loathe dealing with a lawn, much less even faster-growing weeds and the chemicals necessary to keep them from killing our grass and settling into my flower beds.

Yeah, I really find myself wanting to become a hermit more and more. DH feels the same way. We're both homebodies who are happy riding our bikes and vegging on the sofa in front of Netflix. The vast majority of our socialization involves other runners and cyclists.

I like some of our condo board members..they are diligent. We also have a good staff member with the property management firm that our condo building pays annually for their services. You need a permanent good paid staff member from such a firm for this work.



We seriously have to face reality of our future: we will no longer be able to drive nor should we in our 80's and onward. It's just dangerous to others. It's easier to change our transportation habits now....even a life without bikes, one day.

Hey folks...I haven't cycled for past 2.5 months (and there's no snow right now) because of my recovery from head injury. We have no car (and not advisable to drive with a head injury). So I've been walking daily, building my strength, using transit. Bike will come later. And I'm not elderly and still working full-time. (But it freaks me out that I qualify for over 55 developments.) I walked to and from my doctor's office today. 2 days ago it was another 20 min. walk to physio or I could take transit train there in lousy weather.

If all else fails, a short taxi ride.


But we're hermits. We don't socialize...meaning visit homes of other condo owners in same building. We just say hi in elevator stuff. Honest in a multi-unit buildings there's less of that type of nosey, cliquey stuff. In my opinion where I've lived. And I've sensed, I've lived beside some good neighbours but just never made an effort to know them. Ok, by us. As long as one is a responsible owner and makes little noise most of the time.

I live in both nice neighbourhoods in both cities. May I remind people that actually having some retired but still active condo/townhouse owners, some people have just abit more time to care for stuff in general. In Toronto I lived in such a building.

Here where I live our community neighbour association has a board of which over 50% are retired people who had professional/management jobs or are university/college educated prior to retirement....so they make good public speakers, organizers and taking time to understand legal/development matters, think through complex issues, provide some evidence, and document some stuff.

[Crankin]

I have never been friends with neighbors, and I love to socialize. Well, I take that back, we are friends with the couple who used to share our driveway; they sold the house to their daughter and family, and while we have tried with them (they ride, etc), we actually have more in common with the parents, who are older than us. We had one neighbor in AZ we socialized with. It started out with more, but the other family got religion and wouldn't talk to us because we didn't celebrate Christmas, enough said there. But overall, not friends, but friendly, would do favors for neighbors in my last neighborhood, although they were a toned down version of the Stepford wives. I've never cared what people think, so it was fine. I see some of my ex neighbors in the grocery store or around town and they are friendly. The people where I live now are just clueless. The younger ones are totally helicopter parents and the older ones a bit too crunchy granola for me (that is being nice). I have my riding friends and my "regular" friends, and that is fine. I made the mistake of giving my opinion about something and I was given an "inappropriate" warning on the list serve, because I put out deer scram, an organic powder made of chili powder/ dried coyote urine, to keep the deer from eating my hostas! They didn't flame the ones who said they were all for the "culling of the herd," where we individually sign off to allow bow hunters on our property to shoot the deer, as we have a huge over population. Nor did anyone flame those who commented that all they got from deer was Lyme Disease. I suspect someone just doesn't like me, but since I no longer go to any neighborhood things, it seems weird.

[zoom-zoom]

Yeah, we have 2-3 couples/families in our 'hood that we really like, several families that we've never laid eyes on (we were one of the first homes built and have been here 2 years...several families have only been here a couple months). I suspect they're like us and value their privacy. Then the remainder (of about 22 homes) are sorta Desperate Housewives. Most of these families have kids that are significantly younger than our son, so we're in somewhat different places in life (though at least one family appears to view our 14 year old as a free babysitter, which doesn't sit well with me. The dad seemed actually put-out that once school started our son wasn't out hanging and supervising with the younger kids, but 8th graders have serious homework and school responsibilities, plus he was running cross country and busy with that).

And I think a lot of these folks went to school together, too -- definitely a feel that quite a few of these couples have known one-another for decades. When we have gone to neighborhood gatherings there's a pretty significant cliquey vibe coming from a particular group. We didn't grow up around here and avoid some of the local yokel drama.

[shootingstar]

Maybe having children, encourages interactions with neighbours who may also have children. I must be living under a rock for the last few decades because I don't get involved neighbour shenanigans. Nor have I experienced the nosey/gossipy, asset-comparing type of folks. I think most of the residents in my building want to be like us, friendly but private. Several people seem to have some jobs overseas or they are ex-pats from somewhere but working in Canada. I live in Canada's city with oil and gas company headquarter offices here.

Weird as this may seem, but living 2 blocks away from major park with jogging, walking and cycling path helps keeps us all saner. That's what I think.

[Trek420]

We seriously have to face reality of our future: we will no longer be able to drive nor should we in our 80's and onward. It's just dangerous to others. It's easier to change our transportation habits now....even a life without bikes, one day.

This. When we were house hunting I put Knot in charge of location because she knows the area. I got veto powers. I just had a few requirements, just a few;

Walkable to at least a few of the errands we run.
Near public transit options.
Bike able at least for as long as we're able to ride.
And if possible not a lot of stairs or single floor.
Dirt. At least some patch of dirt I can plant on, even small.

While walking the mutt we found a tiny condo that met all my non-negotiable demands. It's a short walk to stores, right on major bus lines and soon light rail will be close. There goes the anonymity of the Internet but we're right off the Burke Gillman so we can't be more walkable/bike able than that! Ground floor end unit gives me dirt on all 3 sides.

I believe it's best when choosing a place to live to factor aging options because we never know. Having worked in services for the disabled for a decade. Many do not plan to become disabled. Particularly I remember one conversation with a client saying "I was once like you. A high paying job, nice apartment and car, lots of activities and then this car crash happened." And there were so many who became disabled at work.

So I felt it worth considering as we looked that whether it's 6 weeks in a cast because I broke my leg skiing or a sudden permanent disability could I get to the bathroom if something happened? Could I get around when I decide not to drive?

So we're not leaving no matter how nuts my neighbor is. We found out that there was another owner she pushed out. Deeply religious she objected to the fact that this couple was living together unmarried. I don't know what happened but she harassed them to the point they sold and left.

We're married! What's her problem? :rolleyes:

[Pax]

The criteria for our condo in FL was similar, zero stairs was a non negotiable for me and with this TKA I'm so glad we didn't waver on that. Our place is first floor, no stairs, walkable/bikeable to almost everything, and on the water. The water part was negotiable because of money but we lucked out.

[Helene2013]

Now we have this big nice house. Good neighbours all around...but for this wacko on one side but we try to ignore him. Wife is ok but him...ish...weird things in his mind! oh well, can't have it all.

But funny this discussion taking a turn as we too are retiring in about 5 years and our criterias are changing for housing. No more stairs, or very minimal. With my knee issues, it will not get better. Also, tired of always being up/down 3 levels (including basement) when you want to get something.

We are thinking selling our home and being full-timers in our motorhome. Summer somewhere in Canada and 7 months somewhere in the States where it is warm. Hubby is more insecure and would like to keep a foot inside somewhere. I'm not sure I want to pay to maintain a home when 7 months you are not using it (on top of paying for someone to remove the snow, visit to make sure all is ok - insurance obliged!), etc. But we'll need to make sure that wherever we live, there are on one-floor, near hospital services (we can't ignore that we will be using more those services as we age), bus service or taxis available for days we no longer will be able to drive, no more rural home area, etc. It is a lot to ask but at the same time Canada is so big I am sure we will find a new place to live in that will meet all of standards. Right now it is harder because of our 3 dogs and 3 cats. But dealing with a geriatric home (4 pets out of 6 are over 10 years old), we are sure that by retirement, 3 of them will be gone, if not 4 of them. We'll be only 57 then, so still young. But you never know what the future holds for you and I want to be ready.

But right now, I enjoy what I have have and only wished I started road cycling many years ago. But then again, we've always did sports, just different ones. Now we're hook to cycling but who knows what we will like in 5 years. We change with time and adapt to new realities too.

[shootingstar]

. But we'll need to make sure that wherever we live, there are on one-floor, near hospital services (we can't ignore that we will be using more those services as we age), bus service or taxis available for days we no longer will be able to drive, no more rural home area, etc. It is a lot to ask but at the same time Canada is so big I am sure we will find a new place to live in that will meet all of standards. Right now it is harder because of our 3 dogs and 3 cats. But dealing with a geriatric home (4 pets out of 6 are over 10 years old), we are sure that by retirement, 3 of them will be gone, if not 4 of them. We'll be only 57 then, so still young. But you never know what the future holds for you and I want to be ready.


No doubt this thread, probably sounds positively geriatric to some readers (who haven't spoken up at all yet.)
However I have been living in a 1-level condo unit, ever since I was 32 yrs. old. :) I'm not a great housekeeper, am not into gardening, so it just suits me. Yes, of course, there has to be storage space for bikes.

No doubt Helene, you and hubby will land on place. Maybe a medium size city with amenities. Will it be outside or within Quebec? Your rv home..will depreciate over time. Not appreciate. It's a home vehicle. However maybe other TE members, have more info., on assessed value of a rv.

Trek, what I have now is a short-term disability. A few days after my injury, I had to ask for go-cart transport assistance at the airport in Jan. because I could not walk a significant distance through crowds of people. It was an effort to get my request met because....I don't look elderly nor frail.

More likely, some of us later may accidentally fall and break /sprain a limb. So we have to find ways to deal with daily living. I couldn't shower for the first 3 days after my injury. I was afraid of falling in the shower. Going up and down stairs at that time: not for me.

[Helene2013]

Nah...not a geriatric thread. Just one deviating once in a while from point A to B. hihi

Oh we know a VR is not an investment. Thus the need to not go out once our home is sold to buy the biggest RV on the market. It would be ridiculous as one day, we may need to go back to a "real" home/condo/whatever and that would be money lost. So we need to be "frugal" in the way we'll be using that type of living. We currently have a motorhome (a class A 34 feet). It is ok to travel a few months a year. We don't need bigger. But if we are going to live in this box year-around, it needs to have wider space, which means slide-outs. Not only one like we have now. For vacationing it is great. For living 24/7/365...not sure.

We are thinking getting out of QC. We were looking for either Ontario or Alberta. But no big towns, nor suburbs. Like you said, mid-size towns, even smaller ones (but not small that they don't even have a store or gas station, or require a car to get anywhere hihi). Like where we live now. About 8,000 people, but the city is so wide-spread that we are 8km from a grocery store, etc. We have only 1 bus in the morning and one back from Montreal downtown in the evening - week days only. So we need better services when we're retired.

Only thing that scares me is that if we decide to move into a condo. You truly need to love your neighbours are they are very close. In a motorhome, if you don't like them, you can ask to move to another spot, or just leave and go to another campground. haha Not so easily done if you bought the condo.

[Crankin]

Frankly, I am not looking to make all of the changes you all are talking about for my next move. We are going to put our house up for sale in about a year. I doubt we would ever find a one story home here, as there are very few ranches, and they tend to be old and ready for tear down status. Of course, there are condos on one floor, but I think we have really decided to just buy a smaller home, locally, where we can pay cash for the house. Our biggest goal is to have no mortgage, and this will be possible when we sell. We are willing to spend a good bit to remodel, too. However, being able to walk to a few types of places is a definite requirement. There is a commuter rail here, but it's not something I would depend on, so just having it is fine, I don't need to be able to walk to it, although the area I am targeting, it would be possible to walk there from some locations. I don't plan on quitting work for at least 5 years, and it is important for me to stay within the same short commute I have now, or at least not more than 7-8 miles. And, I may continue working at least one day a week until whenever I can't talk and write! Basically, we are looking for a 3 bedroom, 2 bath home, with a flat yard. We will pay for gardening and snow removal, although, in a smaller home, DH may enjoy doing some of that, at least for awhile.
I do not want to move into a more urban area, or even some of the suburbs east of here, that have more services. I just can't take being too close to people. Where I live is not super rural, or anything, but sort of suburban-rural, with some towns having village centers, sometimes, more than one, with services. Most of all, I don't want to leave the area I am in. I've moved a lot, and I want stability. We also still have the idea of buying a small condo/second home out in western MA, so that is a consideration, too.

[ny biker]

My parents are in their late 70s, and are up and down stairs all day in their house. I actually think it has helped them stay fit. They could live on one floor of the house, but won't do that unless they really have to.

[Trek420]

My parents are in their late 70s, and are up and down stairs all day in their house. I actually think it has helped them stay fit. They could live on one floor of the house, but won't do that unless they really have to.

Somewhere I read that someone asked Betty White how she stays in such good shape. She said she has a 2 story house and a bad memory. :)

[zoom-zoom]

Somewhere I read that someone asked Betty White how she stays in such good shape. She said she has a 2 story house and a bad memory. :)

Ha! I remember how worn out I was when we moved into our house (almost exactly 2 years ago). I was up and down the stairs all day long for a week or two (2 story home...3, with basement). I didn't feel so bad about being too busy to get legitimate workouts in for a while.

[Crankin]

That's exactly how I feel, NY. I am not planning my life to be stair free. It keeps me fit. In fact, when I am too lazy to go outside or I don't want to get on the trainer, I run up 3 flights of stairs/walk down for 20 minutes. That is a workout! Sure, I could get hurt or incapacitated in some way, but I just can't base my life on what might happen. Right now I have a 4 story home, so 2 floors will seem like nothing. I feel like i am just starting to live the second half of my life, with lots of travel and less work; most people in my family live until their early 90s, with a good quality of life, so I suspect my next move may not be my last.

[TrekDianna]

I can't even deal with the thought of neighbors. We live in 6 acres on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere and our vacation house has 3 acres.

[Eden]

I can't even deal with the thought of neighbors. We live in 6 acres on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere and our vacation house has 3 acres.

Different stokes and all… I live in the middle of the city and crazy neighbors or no (fortunately at this time no, but there have been), I couldn't deal with that type of isolation. I could never handle needing to get into a car to have access to anything and everything, not to mention no possibility of doing anything spontaneous.

[Trek420]

My parents are in their late 70s, and are up and down stairs all day in their house. I actually think it has helped them stay fit. They could live on one floor of the house, but won't do that unless they really have to.

My Dad lived to his early 80's. If you'd met him up to his last year you might not have guessed his age. You'd have thought maybe 70's. And you'd never have guessed he was seriously ill. He'd take you on a tour striding around the 3 acre garden or out chopping wood or turning a mountain of compost. After his death mom moved from the single story home she'd designed for them to a place of her own. Also one story.

We worried how she would do alone although my brother and I lived nearby. She started gardening almost immediately and we knew she'd be ok. Mom went on living actively and independently, raising heck, fruit and veggies. She passed away almost a year ago at 92. I remember her saying when someone asked how she kept so alert and active "just keep moving."

There's genetic luck of the draw, nutrition, but perhaps activity was key. For them that was gardening, close community and friends, that and cross word puzzles.

[shootingstar]

We are thinking getting out of QC. We were looking for either Ontario or Alberta. But no big towns, nor suburbs. Like you said, mid-size towns, even smaller ones (but not small that they don't even have a store or gas station, or require a car to get anywhere hihi). Like where we live now. About 8,000 people, but the city is so wide-spread that we are 8km from a grocery store, etc. We have only 1 bus in the morning and one back from Montreal downtown in the evening - week days only. So we need better services when we're retired.

Only thing that scares me is that if we decide to move into a condo. You truly need to love your neighbours are they are very close. In a motorhome, if you don't like them, you can ask to move to another spot, or just leave and go to another campground. haha Not so easily done if you bought the condo.

So what is the appeal of Alberta? Keep in mind in Canmore foothill town outside of Banff, was partially flooded in 2013 by the massive river disaster that also impacted Calgary. I wouldn't buy real estate there if you don't know the floodplain area. There is Red Deer, Airdrie....which well, are just prairie small cities. Except for Calgary and Edmonton, there are no other big urban centres. The towns are far apart and very car dependent in the prairies.... Cycling infrastructure does exist in Calgary and Edmonton, but it's a huge ongoing battle.

I'm here in Calgary because I was offered a good job. Not because I like the lifestyle, milieu here.... That's all.

Prairies, the politics, etc. is quite different in Alberta compared to Ontario. It's not as pleasant in my opinion as Ontario cities of Kingston, or a place just outside of Ottawa, Niagara on the Lake, Stratford, Guelph, London.... I grew up in Kitchener-Waterloo. I lived first 40 yrs. in Ontario and also biked within Toronto and outside in some other (no transit) areas, Perth, Merrickville, etc. Going north towards Goderich there are some pleasant towns but very little to do in cold seasons. So feel free to PM me, Helene, since I still visit Ontario with friends and family.

I've named Ontario cities/towns with some older, historic cores with cultural, outdoor activities, universities/colleges (good for interest courses) and services where they aren't dying off.

[shootingstar]

Stairs for keeping fit and probability of being still mobile to navigate stairs:

I certainly hope to keep reasonably healthy and fit. But I know I don't need to have internal home stairs for this. There's a good chance myself and others in family, could well live long beyond 80 yrs. or so.. Just by the current track record in family recent genes in Canada. But what is sad that my father was quite fit (aside from his cancer) up to 85 yrs. last year. No cardio, respiratory problems at all. Then he had difficulty because of the cancer, chemo weakening him, then later he couldn't use the stairs anymore 4 months before he died (in the hospital, palliative care).

I also think of my partner's mother who walked 2 km. round trip for her own grocery shopping up until she was around 88 yrs. Then she sold her 3 level house, moved into 1 level apartment for seniors before nursing home as last stop. She never learned to drive. (Would have been too nervous for that, anyway.)

These were quite healthy seniors. Now, I feel sorry for a single good friend who is close to 80 yrs. She has lived solo for most of her adult years but is a socialable person. She broke her hip 3 yrs. ago and did heal after rehab. Now she broke her right hand wrist for the 2nd time. She's having a tough time doing some daily stuff. She lives in a different province. She did own a house, then sold to condo (twice) and now end up apartment. She is also reasonably alert and fit....loves to walk. She gave up her car about 5 yrs. ago. This is in Toronto.

Everyone makes a choice. And my choice is not to live in a manner that is more isolated as someone without children, and that requires a car to get life necessities, food and get health care services/ requires a car for people to visit me because of no transit/no sidewalk for safe walking, etc.

[Crankin]

It sounds like you know yourself, Shooting Star, so that is good. It's funny, I don't really consider having children into my planning for this. One of my kids lives in the area, about 30 minutes away by car. But, I really don't ever want to depend on either of them for my care. I am ok with assisted living or nursing home for a long term situation, but in the short term, I would like palliative care, like my dad had, if I am in a terminal situation. We just redid our wills and the son here is our health care proxy, so he knows all of this, as does the other one.
My older son has already been through a palliative care terminal illnesss with his FIL, so he kind of was exposed at a younger age than most.

[shootingstar]

It sounds like you know yourself, Shooting Star, so that is good. It's funny, I don't really consider having children into my planning for this. One of my kids lives in the area, about 30 minutes away by car. But, I really don't ever want to depend on either of them for my care. I am ok with assisted living or nursing home for a long term situation, but in the short term, I would like palliative care, like my dad had, if I am in a terminal situation. We just redid our wills and the son here is our health care proxy, so he knows all of this, as does the other one.
My older son has already been through a palliative care terminal illnesss with his FIL, so he kind of was exposed at a younger age than most.

Stuff got confirmed where I've been living...not just now..but for the last 52 yrs., my choice makes sense for me. First 3 years don't count since I don't remember for a town of 2,000 people. (Terrible for my mother who was very isolated, stuck in the house with her lst 3 very young children and not speaking English.) Always living close to transit, services, shops..walking distance. My parents made that choice when we were children. They did live in the suburbs for a decade after most of us flew their coop. That was when I found it was such a hassle whenever I visited them, to be car-dependent for everything in the 'burbs except for occasional bus service. I was already in my 30's then.

Maybe I don't know any better.
My father died just 2 wks...... before I had my head injury on this Jan. lst. It's been a lot of compressed living in the last few months for my family and thoughts of future.

I would love to believe that I will aim to be as healthy as possible (just like some real people I know from family) for best quality of life, and have made effort not to cause unnecessary suffering for myself because I didn't take preventive, long-term health and safety measures outside and within home.

[Helene2013]

So what is the appeal of Alberta?

Because of the climate, the economy was good (not so sure anymore with oil/gas issues), and being straight down to Arizona and places we'd like to hibernate in the winter. :) I have cousins living in B.C. so it would be closer to visit if we felt like it. Closer to California, Arizona, and places we love!

We are not going to purchase a house just yet (when we sell this one when retiring in 5 years). We may be nomads for a while trying to figure which province, then city we want to anchor ourselves too. I have family in BC, lived there for a little while when younger. I was born and raised in Ontario and stayed most of my younger life in Ottawa area. A city we also like. Our very best friends live in Whitby, Ontario. We also were looking to move there. It is no longer cheap as too close to Toronto area. We still have 5 years to think about where we'll set our new living quarters. We also have an office in Calgary. They all said to avoid that area due to high cost of living.

But one thing for sure, we will be moving west and where the economy and climate and politics are better than Quebec. Quebec being the largest taxed province of Canada. Cheap rent but the rest is too expensive, except for Vancouver who I think beat us in various fields. I just cannot stand the fight about languages either (and I'm French). It just tires me just hearing about separation, we are better than the rest of the planet, being over taxed, etc.

Note that we will only be in Canada 5/12th out of a year. We cannot really become Americans either as it is a bit too complex and it is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

But we need to make sure where we will land, we will have good neighbours. I don't want to have to live with wackos! We are quiet and keep to ourselves. We don't mind a chat now and then but on my grounds. hihi

As for living without stairs, when you already have major knee issues, you have to think further than today. If knees were not issues, it may not cross my mind. But living with damaged knees for so long now, and not improving, it is something to think about. If I want to stay in shape, I can have my own gym (like I do now), enjoy the outdoors...all on my own time/choice. Not something I have to do because I have to go up/down to get to bed or basement. Health issues change a lot of things we take for granted when not affected. I know...I'm into this big time!

[shootingstar]

But one thing for sure, we will be moving west and where the economy and climate and politics are better than Quebec. Quebec being the largest taxed province of Canada. Cheap rent but the rest is too expensive, except for Vancouver who I think beat us in various fields. I just cannot stand the fight about languages either (and I'm French). It just tires me just hearing about separation, we are better than the rest of the planet, being over taxed, etc.

I'm sorry to hear, Helene. (sorry the missing l'accent(s)). Living in B.C. and Alberta, as a resident one hears waaaaaay less about Quebec and French language matters. Just last yr., I learned of some historic small francophone towns in central Alberta/south of Edmonton. But I get the impression, people aren't vocal about non-English language matters in general and don't seem to have sophisticated translation services to serve immigrant/allophone populations in Calgary and Edmonton. (Toronto and Vancouver are both sophisticated and it shows in some of the govn't literature.) I doubt you would like Alberta politics --Conservative for the last 40 yrs.

I have met long time BC and Alberta folks, who have a lot less motivation/desire to even visit Ontario or Quebec --if they don't have friends or family. They cite the cost of flight. I don't think that's the real/only reason.

Alberta's economy truly is dependent on oil and gas industry which has plunged abit in terms of jobs, price of homes/less home sales in the past 4 months. The major hospitals and clinics for specialized medicine are in only Calgary and Edmonton. So please think on this. Dental care in Alberta is the highest in Canada. Supported by local press just 2 months, ago who compared rates with Ontario and B.C. I knew that all along...

Winter normally in Alberta is much longer than in B.C. or southern Ontario. Meaning real safe spring for seedlings is June.

B.C.- interested in Okanagan (wind) valley area or mountain towns of Nelson, Cranbrook or Golden? They get lots of snow for skiing, etc. but their winters are milder than Alberta's. Did you know that B.C. Transit has bus bike racks on all their buses across B.C. Sunshine coast is lovely but probably getting more expensive (Schelt, etc.) and dependent on B.C. Ferries which govn't is cutting back on number of ferry runs to control its deficit. My partner and others working on this blog (http://www.cyclotouringbc.com/wordpress/) re B.C. cyclotouring. Albertans....actually love B.C. That's where they buy their vacation or retirement home if they stay in Canada. They love the BC mountains, the lush green forests, ocean...since we're landlocked. Otherwise Albertans settle for Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper areas.

I do go back to Vancouver when I get time, etc.....it's 2nd home. Vancouverites don't vacation in Arizona....they go to...Hawai'i, Oregon or California.

[Helene2013]

Okanagan was one of our choices but I read a few months back that it is no longer as cheap. We'll have to see when we cross that career/retirement bridgr. A lpt csn hsppen in 5 years too. But it is good to read views from others. Thanks for sharing.

We would not say in Canada for 7 months (winter) so don't care as much where it is colder/warmer/snowier. But one thing for sure you won't find me where it is too warm....like cancun and cuba. Lol 20c is max I like. Not much of a summer/beach type of girl.

[thekarens]

Our house is about paid for and not that big (about 1600 as ft.) So it wouldn't make any financial sense to move. It needs a few repairs and there's other places in Texas I'd rather live, but I'm pretty sure we'll stay where we're at. Unfortunately, unless you live in town where it's expensive you have to drive to get to things.

[Trek420]

And we won. Permanent restraining order. She was nuts, arguing with the judge, stomping up to his bench and pounding on it (big no no. The bailif was heading over). She did our work for us, Knott and myself did not even have to testify.

[Crankin]

Congrats!!

[Trek420]

Since being served she's been to the courthouse 4 times to stage hissy fits at the clerks. Not a good idea, all gets noted in the docket. Then at court she argues with the judge. Marches up to the bench and bangs her fists on it.

Also not good. Surprised she was not arrested as the bailif was heading towards her.

Seems she circulated a form letter perhaps at her church with sections they could fill in that "I ___________ have known squirell nutkin since ____________. I met her at ______________. She is the kindest, gentlest, respectful person in the world and she would never peek in someone's bedroom window. Signed _____________."

None of these people know her at home, none see her here and a few just signed the form and did not fill it in. Our judge rejected all that she brought. Not applicable, no dates, nothing notarized, and as evidence she presented a gardening hat.

She also presented a typewritten note from former governor John Spellman. I had to look him up, he's still alive but has to be near 90 and that was likely written by her too.

[OakLeaf]

Glad you got that hurdle over with. What do you think are the chances she'll respect the restraining order?

[Trek420]

Glad you got that hurdle over with. What do you think are the chances she'll respect the restraining order?

I think the camera we got is doing us more good. I think she'll obey it for a couple months and then test the waters to see what she gets away with. At that point we decide whether or not to call the police. Our lawyer said one always has the choice of saying "ok, that one was free. You do that again and we call the cops" but if she stalks Knott to work or calls they get called.