More bullying behaviour from Specialized.

[Wahine]

You know what, Speicialized has done a lot for the cycling world. They produce good off-the-shelf bikes at a reasonable price point. They sponsor a lot of athletes, including a good friend of mine, allowing them to focus full time on their sport. The promote riding in a way that has gotten more of the general population excited about the sport and have done their part to increase the numbers of recreation cyclists on the road and on the trails.

But I abhor their corporate policies, specifically the bullying behaviour we've seen in the last 10 years.

Here's yet another example. (http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2013/12/07/war-veteran-forced-to-change-bike-shops-name-after-threat-from-u-s-bike-giant-specialized/)

And recently...Volagi (http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/01/news/an-expensive-dollar-volagi-owes-specialized-1_203443)

And before that...this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/01/31/specialized-mountain-cycle-disagree-on-stumptown-864) and this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/02/03/specialized-responds-898).

Not to mention stories told to me by bike shop owners who have been threatened by Specialized to pull their bikes from the shps and to open their own Specialized shop close by to compete if the shop owners don't agree to dedicate a very large portion of the shop to Specialized only and demand that the owners carry a certain volume of bikes. This is often nearly impossible for the smaller dealers as they simply don't have the floor space or revenue to carry the required inventory.

I'm not sure I will ever buy a Specialized product again.

[TrekDianna]

Not sure why the War vet part was emphasized unless it was to gain more sympathy (I'm a disabled war vet). I guess all media choose the angle that brings the most readers..... but, I see this from a lot of companies. There are so many that I don't like their tactics. I refuse to support Nike at all (an only partially because of that darn Nike University down the highway from me). For me, specialized bikes fit me the best. I suppose someday I will get a custom bike, but for now, I can only support my LBS and this is what they sell.

[shootingstar]

I don't follow the cycling world closely so Wahine, I was not aware of Specialized's bullying tactics in other areas... That is shameful.

Cochrane bike shop is in a small town just outside of our city..about less than 70km. southwest from where I live. Wonder how long he has been in business before Specialized decided to act.
I don't agree with knowingly copying another trademark and thumbing one's nose at the others. After all, one gets pissed off at China in its piracy acts on intellectual property for manufactured goods, etc. However this feels, vaguely like selective cherry-picking by Specialized.

However this is a situation of David vs. Goliath. As for the quoted legal fee for LBS should he want to formally respond in court to Specialized...it doesn't have to be that price tag for a little guy if..the law firm would change its business model how it bills, to make it easier for a small biz client. (Lawyers do not jump at me: there has been enough discussion in the last 10 yrs. in professional legal literature how much the law firms, has to reinvent its business model and how it bills clients.)

[Owlie]

You know what, Speicialized has done a lot for the cycling world. They produce good off-the-shelf bikes at a reasonable price point. They sponsor a lot of athletes, including a good friend of mine, allowing them to focus full time on their sport. The promote riding in a way that has gotten more of the general population excited about the sport and have done their part to increase the numbers of recreation cyclists on the road and on the trails.

But I abhor their corporate policies, specifically the bullying behaviour we've seen in the last 10 years.

Here's yet another example. (http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2013/12/07/war-veteran-forced-to-change-bike-shops-name-after-threat-from-u-s-bike-giant-specialized/)

And recently...Volagi (http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/01/news/an-expensive-dollar-volagi-owes-specialized-1_203443)

And before that...this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/01/31/specialized-mountain-cycle-disagree-on-stumptown-864) and this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/02/03/specialized-responds-898).

Not to mention stories told to me by bike shop owners who have been threatened by Specialized to pull their bikes from the shps and to open their own Specialized shop close by to compete if the shop owners don't agree to dedicate a very large portion of the shop to Specialized only and demand that the owners carry a certain volume of bikes. This is often nearly impossible for the smaller dealers as they simply don't have the floor space or revenue to carry the required inventory.

I'm not sure I will ever buy a Specialized product again.

I've also heard stories of bullying shop owners, and it would explain why 2/3 of my old LBS' inventory was Specialized (though they were also the only dealer in the area). I haven't read all the links, but I have heard stories of Specialized stringing a shop along on inventory, eventually forcing the shop to close, then they reopened it as a Specialized store.

The "Roubaix" thing is cr@p. Fuji also has a bike called the Roubaix (except the company that owns Fuji apparently got there first in the US--I don't know how that ended when Specialized came out with theirs). It's like the IOC freaking out over everything with "Olympic" in its name.

I'm torn--the Amira is/was on the list of potential next bikes. :/

[shootingstar]

Hope they reach an out of court settlement. Specialized better realign its budget from legal fees to something else.

(I also know the reporter distantly..he has a regular column on cycling matters in our region/part of the province. The veteran reference looks like something to make the story a bit more interesting.)

I'm intrigued the bike shop is on a 2nd floor. Um...kind of impractical.

[Helene2013]

Read this in French and even that other board some have started NOT saying they own a Specialized and thinking seriously of banning any purchases coming from Specialized. Unless Specialized retracts. Interesting to see the outcome.

[Bike Writer]

I've seen this story about the vet with the shop circulating on social media, perhaps if it gets enough attention it might catch the eye of an attorney to help out the war vet? Companies who bully are no different than people who bully, they stink! However, what goes around comes around, eventually.

[ny biker]

RT ‏@bikesnobnyc This just in: @iamspecialized lawyers say Canadians may not obseve a country bumpkin and remark "Rube, eh?"


(I'm really not clear on how you can trademark a name that is already used for a town, a famous bike race, a train station, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roubaix)

[Owlie]

RT ‏@bikesnobnyc This just in: @iamspecialized lawyers say Canadians may not obseve a country bumpkin and remark "Rube, eh?"

*snort*

I wonder if they've decided to sue the town in France, the town in South Dakota...

[Wahine]

RT ‏@bikesnobnyc This just in: @iamspecialized lawyers say Canadians may not obseve a country bumpkin and remark "Rube, eh?"


Hee hee.

A friend of my made a comment about how the owners of Hard Rock cafe and DOT should be going after Specialized for the use of Hard Rock and Tarmac.:p

[OakLeaf]

Bet they're not suing Ford for the name Expedition. Ford can pay even more lawyers than Spec' can.



(And okay, I've gotta take shootingstar's bait, even though I know very little about IP law ... why should lawyers work for free, any more than any other profession? Would you ask Wahine to treat uninsured patients for free? Or insured patients who've reached the end of the very few PT sessions most insurance allows? It would be nice if all of us did some pro bono work, of course, but it can't be too big a proportion of their work, and trademark litigation against a big company can be a LOT of work. Lawyers have to keep their lights on and pay their staffs, too ...)

[thekarens]

I think there's a difference between free and affordable. When a little guy gets bullied by a big company a lot of time they lose, not because they don't have the better case, but because they don't have the money to fight these mega corporations.

[Owlie]

I've seen this story about the vet with the shop circulating on social media, perhaps if it gets enough attention it might catch the eye of an attorney to help out the war vet? Companies who bully are no different than people who bully, they stink! However, what goes around comes around, eventually.

Spec's Facebook page was full of not-so-nice comments yesterday. I haven't looked, but they've probably been deleting things right and left.

[smilingcat]

I've heard Specialized' FB is trashed with hate message.

City of Roubaix in France should sue Specialized for a license fee for use of their name. French government can back up Roubaix. You know bigger fish eating smaller fish.

Thankfully there are plenty of other competitors to specialized so its not a terrible hardship to buy something else. Another thing is at your local LBS, tell them that you are avoiding Specialized product because of their tactics. If enough LBS hears about it, specialized will get the message.

And shame on Specialized for saying how they support the war veterans in one breath and in the next shut one down. War veterans group should go after Specialized for their double talk.

Stumptown bike versus Stump jumper??? really epic wheel builder in Portland versus Specialized epic whatever it was really?

[shootingstar]

I never said free at all, Oak. And I know that this is not a legal aid case --IP law is not legal aid work.

If one follows the discussion among some lawyers in the past few years... on changing their business models.

(I know personally know a person who has a malpractice suit....it was lost after 10 years. She's going to lose her small condo home because of the legal fees. She's a single, divorced mom with 2 children.)

[OakLeaf]

And again, you haven't addressed the comparison ... the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA is medical bills. Yes indeed, doctors and NPs in community health clinics work for quite a bit less than concierge doctors do - but when one of their clients needs to go to the hospital, they get billed on the same plan as the billionaires, and if they can't afford their surgery or their MRI or their chemotherapy or their schizophrenia medications, it's just too bad for them.

What "business model" do you envision, where a small corporation's lawyers would do hundreds of hours of work for 10% or less of the price that Spec's lawyers do the same hundreds of hours of work on their side??? Or realistically, probably less than 1%, when you're talking about what a small bike shop can afford? What do you call it, other than "free," where someone doesn't get paid for the work they do ... even if you're saying they should get paid for the first, say, 20 hours of work, but nothing past that? Never mind that even that "piddling" $5,000 would make a serious dent in most LBS's bottom line.

[shootingstar]

You know the profession better than I. I'm not really interested in a pitched battle. I am only aware of the hourly billing rates for a national firm, also global firm (and it shocked me...I worked for such firms. But then, they didn't need to have offices in one of the most expensive areas of Toronto.)

Here's a Canadian lawyer who was also journalist editor for a well-read, cited Canadian national law newspaper for lawyers. Because he has inside knowledge how the legal world operates: http://www.law21.ca/

I did work for a national law firm, where students did do Internet searches this is in the area of IP law....honest it was a way for the firm to drum up wee business with a major corporate client.

Enuff said. (It's not surprising why some lawyers left practicing law...but for a variety of other reasons also.)

Canadian medical system is very different from the U.S. (thank goodness). However catastrophic permanent disability is costly care.

[maillotpois]

On the legal fee thing - most defense type firms are already billing at rates that barely allow a profit margin when you consider the expenses of running a law firm. They are NOT billing at the same rates per hour as the firm Specialized is using is - far from it. I can assure you based on my friends' experience being sued by Specialized that the Specialized lawyers will bury you in work you must respond to. Even a prudent defense lawyer (which I used to be) would have a hard time keeping the total tab under 150k with all of that facing you. You can only cut so much before you run a risk of blowing something because you cut too much.

My friends spent their entire retirement savings defending the Specialized lawsuit. It nearly put the company out of business.

Specialized is really Armstrong-esque in its tactics.

[Irulan]

The whole David and Goliath thing bothers me when ANY corporation does it. Here's the part of the Specialized thing that I can't get my head around: we have a locally owned (4 store) lbs here that either licensed or franchise with Spec. I don't know the business model but one guy owns all the stores, with at least one guy having half ownership in one of them. They also sell Kona, Diamondback, Santa Cruz and a few other brands too. I am personal friends with some of the guys that have half ownership in one of the stores, and personal friends with many of the employes. These guys have families, and this is how they make their living. They do an awesome job across the board with bike sales, fitting, and service, plus oodles of community involvement on biking issues. I am having a tough time reconciling The Evil Empire with John, Josh, Craig, Jim, and the other guys.

[smilingcat]

... I am having a tough time reconciling The Evil Empire with John, Josh, Craig, Jim, and the other guys.

One way to reconciling is to buy something other than Specialized. Your friends still get the business, you still get what you want with exception of items specific to Specialized. Who's hurt? not your friends at LBS and not you. Specialized just missed out on a sale because of their heavy handed tactic.

I'm no so enamored with Specialized, I can go else where. Okay so I do own Specialized bike, and seat. But those are the last from Specialized. I think I will stick with local builders and small mom and pop suppliers who really do make top notch products.

[Irulan]

this is in the process of going viral as we speak:
http://ridingagainstthegrain.com/2013/12/08/an-open-letter-to-mike-sinyard/


Here’s where the letter to Mr. Sinyard starts.

First off, you’re losing this public relations battle. If you cannot acknowledge that the current path you’re pursuing with Cafe Roubaix is a mistake, then you can stop reading now. It is a mistake. I’m not talking about the legal analysis of your claims–I’m talking about the direction of your brand, and what you’re doing to your company. I have a great deal of respect for what you’ve done with Specialized. You are the proverbial American Dream. You started a company with just your sweat and effort, and have created a hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-per-year enterprise. That’s amazing by any measure. And you are doubtless proud, and protective, of that enterprise. I understand that fully. But somewhere along the lines, part of your company came off the tracks.

The past couple of years have been a progression of some bad legal decisions. Going after the Stumptown mountain bike because it sounds like Stumpjumper? Going after Epic Designs (manufacturer of some amazing bike luggage, now known as Relevate Designs) because you make a like of bikes called the Epic? Going after Epic Wheel Works in Portland, for the same reason? And your whole tangle with Volagi–embarrassing, frankly. Here’s a hint: when a Court says that you win, but only awards you $1 in damages…that’s the legal system telling you that you’re being a jerk. I don’t mean that as an insult–I don’t know you personally, and have no basis from which to judge you or your personality. But your legal department is running amok.

I don’t know if you have in-house counsel or outside counsel…or some combination thereof, but you need to get control of them, before they destroy your company. The vast majority of bikes purchased in this country are not purchased because they are necessary for transportation. They’re purchased as lifestyle choices–because they’re cool. That goes doubly for your most profitable bikes–the high-end mountain and road bikes that no one really needs to own. People buy those because they’re cool, and fast, and fun. But try as you may to convince the public otherwise, there’s nothing that special about a Specialized, just as there’s nothing that special about a Trek, et. al. What I mean by that is simple: from a “doing the group ride” perspective, any current high-end road bike will perform admirably. If you took away my current road bike and put me on a Venge, I wouldn’t be measurably faster or slower. Much of what goes into the purchase of a high-end bike is buying into the ethos and culture of the manufacturer. I love Salsa bikes in part because I love their ethos. The same can be said for Moots. But frankly, I am not seeing anyone lately who’s in love with Specialized as a brand. In fact, what I am seeing is Specialized dealers tweeting that they’re just as worried about your latest decisions as the public is. I’m seeing Specialized riders say that they’re changing brands. I’m seeing mechanics talk about rejecting bikes that even have your tires on them. It’s pretty bleak, Mike.

Let’s talk about Cafe Roubaix. First, the guy that runs it is a war veteran, who can legitimately talk about using his shop to help combat his combat-induced post-traumatic stress disorder. Does his being a veteran play into the technical legal analysis of your claim at all? Nope. Veteran or not, the law is the same. Moreover, if there really was a true violation of your intellectual property rights, being a veteran would not be a defense. But in a questionable situation, you have to know that the public is going to side with the war veteran who is the owner of a small business over a corporate giant (particularly when that corporate giant is having some very public fights over relatively petty trademark issues). Pick your battles, and avoid losses (or pyrrhic victories).

(I mean no offense to the shop owner, and I appreciate his service. I just think that his unique characteristics make it all the more obvious that Specialized has gone over the edge).

One way to look at this situation would be with some compassion. Look at the owner of this small business, and realize that he doesn’t pose a threat to your brand. There’s no likelihood of confusion–no one is going to mistake this guy for Specialized. Let sleeping dogs lie, and let this guy run his company. That’s a reasonable approach.

If you choose to analyze things from a purely business perspective, look at what’s happening. Even if there was some impact on your business (there isn’t), and even if you could quantify it (you can’t), it would be miniscule. Compare that minuscule economic impact to the incredibly damaging effect that this news is having upon your company. The core of people who are really dedicated bikers are seeing this news nonstop. All of their friends are using social media to talk about it. It’s everywhere–in the worst possible way. The cost analysis on this particular intellectual property squabble weighs heavily against pursuing it.

You’ve had a bunch of these squabbles. You should notice a trend: the backlash is growing each time. Every time you “pick on the little guy”, the public responds more. Let me tell you what’s in your future: mass media coverage. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “war veteran being sued by Specialized” story doesn’t pick up mass media this time around. And let’s be honest: if he gets on the Today show and talks about his business being attacked, you’re sunk. That has a tangible, hugely negative impact on you. Regardless of right or wrong, compassion or not…pursuing this claim is going to hurt your business. I like to think that the compassionate arguments would win out, but if they don’t, then look at the business side of this. You can’t buy negative press this vociferous. And if this claim doesn’t make mass media, the next one will. Honestly, we don’t need negative cycling stories to hit mass media. We’re still recovering from the onslaught of pro-cyclist revelations.

So let’s say you agree with me. Let’s say you’re willing to look at other options. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that you need to be aggressive in setting a new image and new tone for your company. That has a number of steps.

First, talk to your lawyers. My guess is that their current marching instructions are along these lines: “Be aggressive. If you find some intellectual property out there that might even possibly be infringing, and you can write a nasty letter with a straight face, do so. Pursue it vigorously. Use our size and ability to be intimidating.” For lawyers, there is a temptation to fight to win the legal battles, even when it means losing the larger war. You need to see your legal strategy as an integral part of your public image. You need to set a new paradigm–a new operating system for your litigators. There will be times when you have legitimate claims to pursue, and when you do, by all means go after them. But please exercise some common sense and discretion in determining what is and is not a threat. (More on that below).

And if you do have to go after someone, try to do so eloquently. Take Jack Daniels’ example.

jd-letter-entire-big1

That is a brilliant letter. Brilliant. It’s a win-win. If you succeed in changing the mind of the person it’s directed to, you’ve won. If you don’t succeed there and do end up having to go to Court, you’ve laid the groundwork that you started the process from a non-confrontational, collaborative perspective and the other guy was unreasonable. Pure brilliance.

Second, deal with this claim. You. Personally. Call the owner of the shop, apologize, and tell him that you’ve learned your lesson. Tell him that he is free to keep his shop name, and offer to send him a custom Roubaix to ride. Tell him that you hope he hasn’t incurred any costs, and tell him that his professional response has been illuminating for you and your company, and has helped you rethink your global strategies. Be graceful. Be apologetic. Be honest.

Third, rethink your global strategies. Specialized has a problem suing people. Whether you think you do or not, the public believes that you do. And for a company trying to sell products to the public, what the public thinks is reality. So you do have a problem, and you need to acknowledge that. You need to do something that gets the heat off of you, and makes it clear that you’re trying to be a good influence on the industry. Here’s my suggestion: put together a committee.

Get a group of interested people. Get some bike industry professionals…some pro cyclists…some recreational cyclists…some representatives of your company…maybe even a blogger or two. Put them on a committee (and make them sign a nondisclosure agreement if you must). When you have an intellectual property issue arise, your attorneys prepare a memo outlining the issue, and it goes to the committee. They review it and make a ‘non-legal’ recommendation. They serve as your internal jury, and your public relations conscience. They would have told you to let Cafe Roubaix go. They would have told you to look for opportunities like this to strengthen your brand. Instead of sending a threatening letter, send a positive one…along the lines of “we have a claim to the Roubaix name, but we really appreciate what you are doing, and wish you the best of success. For that reason, we are not going to assert any claims, and we look forward to sharing a place in the industry with you.” On the other hand, if someone starts making carbon fiber road bikes and calling them the Special Venge, the committee will tell you that your claim is legit regardless of who the manufacturer of the bike is. The idea of the committee is to make sure you’re getting an impartial, non-expert view of the situation before you commit to a public course of action.

Fourth, take accountability. Regardless of the attorneys, the office politics, whatever else–you’ve made a career of telling others that the buck stops with you. You need to be responsible for this situation, and as per #2 above, you need to deal with it personally. Even if you create a committee, you still need to be personally involved and personally consulted before any cease and desist letter goes out the door. This is a critical issue, and it’s hurting your company. Badly. Pay attention to it, just like you’d pay attention to your bike design and engineering. It’s hard to convince the public that you’re a good, caring company. It’s easy to convince the public that you’re mean. You’re taking the easy road right now, and from what I’ve read, that’s not your style.

In the end, you get to decide how your company moves forward. The path you’re on now is a destructive one–destructive to others, and self-destructive as well. It’s not working. You’re not racking up public support and legal victories. Rethink it. Innovate your litigation culture just as you innovate your bicycle design. At the end of the day, if people hate what Specialized stands for, they’re going to ride someone else’s bike. It isn’t hard for other bike companies to look nice when you’re doing such an incredible job of being the industry bully.

I wish you well. The bike industry and my options as a consumer both benefit from competition among bike companies. The downfall of Specialized–or even a diminution in your market and ability–would be bad for cyclists everywhere. Think about what you’re doing. Go back to how you would have wanted to be treated when you were in the van. This isn’t it–it can’t be. You can do better. If you “win” this legal battle but lose the industry’s respect and your customer’s support, where does that leave you?

[shootingstar]

Hey thx, maillotpois!


On the legal fee thing - most defense type firms are already billing at rates that barely allow a profit margin when you consider the expenses of running a law firm. They are NOT billing at the same rates per hour as the firm Specialized is using is - far from it. I can assure you based on my friends' experience being sued by Specialized that the Specialized lawyers will bury you in work you must respond to. Even a prudent defense lawyer (which I used to be) would have a hard time keeping the total tab under 150k with all of that facing you. You can only cut so much before you run a risk of blowing something because you cut too much.

My friends spent their entire retirement savings defending the Specialized lawsuit. It nearly put the company out of business.

Specialized is really Armstrong-esque in its tactics.

[smilingcat]

Thanks Irulan for the link. And yes, spread the word buy something else. And when we do, let LBS know why you bought something else. It'll show up in the bottom line.

[Irulan]

PR disaster in the making
https://www.facebook.com/specializedbicycles?filter=2

[Wahine]

Irulan, love the letter you posted! Thank you.

As for the FB page, this just keeps getting better and better.

[shootingstar]

Today's news article and further developments (or global world response):
http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2013/12/09/bike-shop-owner-humbled-by-outpouring-of-support-in-fight-with-bike-giant-specialized/

[Irulan]

Irulan, love the letter you posted! Thank you.

As for the FB page, this just keeps getting better and better.

the cycling blogosphere is going nuts with this one. ....Must get away from internet and try to get some work done today....I really want to just grab a bag of popcorn and watch the show.

[Irulan]

latest word on twitter is that Specialized might be making statement later today.

[thekarens]

This has been great entertainment for me. It will be interesting to see how everything shakes out.

[Bike Writer]

I would think that a savvy young attorney would consider a case like this, not so much for the tug-at-your-heart-strings pro bono aspect but from a strictly business sense point of view. A Davey going up against a Goliath can make a name for themselves early on in their career and reap rewards ten fold later on. Yeah, I know people still gotta pay the bills, but as a former business owner, I did plenty of "pro-bono" work just to get my name out there and positive press. You can't buy the kind of advertising that you can get from a write up doing a community service project or the like.

[smilingcat]

At this point in time for me, riding around in Specialized S-work bike is a big social faux paux. Maybe I can have the paint job blasted off with walnut shell (they don't use sand anymore) and have it powder coated with something else. I did like the metallic red look but hmmm...

Why advertise for a thug. I think a bucket of popcorn and some cider is about right. Watch the train-wreck. why not??

Just ordered a Cafe Roubaix T-shirt from him to support the little guy.

[Irulan]

T shirt? I missed that. Link?

[Owlie]

At this point in time for me, riding around in Specialized S-work bike is a big social faux paux. Maybe I can have the paint job blasted off with walnut shell (they don't use sand anymore) and have it powder coated with something else. I did like the metallic red look but hmmm...

Why advertise for a thug. I think a bucket of popcorn and some cider is about right. Watch the train-wreck. why not??

Just ordered a Cafe Roubaix T-shirt from him to support the little guy.

Tape?

[smilingcat]

here's the link

http://www.caferoubaix.ca/on-line-store.php

no tape.

[Irulan]

Are you US? If so, how much to ship down here?

Btw, I liked them on FB. 11k + likes, I'm sure many of them new.

[Irulan]

Update
ASI parent company of specialized, says specialized overstepped its bounds and of course the store can use the name. And more...
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2013/12/09/asi-says-calgary-bike-shop-can-use-roubaix-name#.UqaXU6G9KSN

[ny biker]

Update
ASI parent company of specialized, says specialized overstepped its bounds and of course the store can use the name. And more...
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2013/12/09/asi-says-calgary-bike-shop-can-use-roubaix-name#.UqaXU6G9KSN

So the small-business owner turns out okay (and gets piles of publicity) and Specialized still looks bad. Nice.

(I didn't think ASI was the owner of Specialized, just another company that licensed a trademarked name to them. But I'm no expert on bicycle conglomerates.)

[Irulan]

You are correct.

[thekarens]

That's pretty funny. Got my entertainment for the week.

[OakLeaf]

Hahahahahaha. ASI should ding Spec' for violating their license terms.

[zoom-zoom]

So the bully got spanked by his mama!!

[Owlie]

I knew I should have bought a Fuji when I had the chance.

"Uh, guys? Who had this trademark first?" :D

[Owlie]

So the small-business owner turns out okay (and gets piles of publicity) and Specialized still looks bad. Nice.

(I didn't think ASI was the owner of Specialized, just another company that licensed a trademarked name to them. But I'm no expert on bicycle conglomerates.)

They're not. They own the trademark in the US--the Fuji Roubaix is their equivalent of Cannondale's CAAD series, and they got there first

(Former Fuji dealer employee.)

[Wahine]

Just read this new development. Love it.

Here's a bike ad posted by a friend of mine this morning on FB. Quite clever.

FREE Epic Stumptown Roubaix Volagi !
Classic and typical Specialized. Fits all arrogant riders between 5'7" to 5'10", with no social conscience or ethics to live by. Special edition cromo touring steel handles comfortably with dismissive behavior. Haven't heard of custom touring steel? It's probably patented. No moral compass required, this bike will take you wherever you want to show your support for bullies. Factory original paint, probably contains lead. Although I wouldn't remove the paint, this could be theft of intellectual property and a breach of contract. It displays very aggressive handling, the best position to ride is on the defensive. You must take action otherwise you may risk losing it. Original headset may need some policing too, most often it will cease and desist. Just to be clear, this is the best bike in the world. A simple trademark search will prevent any confusion of this.
All shipping fees will be paid forward to support: Revelate Designs (Epic Bags), Sugar Wheel Works (Epic Wheel Works), Volagi, Kinesis( Mountain Cycle /Stumptown) and Cafe Roubaix.

It was posted with a photo of an old Specialized frame that he uses for commuting.

[Irulan]

omg that's the best. Can you link it in twitter? <veg>

[Hi Ho Silver]

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but it seems to me that the root of the problem is "trademark law" - if a name is trademarked and the trademark owner doesn't pursue others using the name (or nearly the same name), don't they then lose the protective rights of the trademark? A lot of the patent and trademark law seems like it rewards firms that hound others who might, even remotely, be infringing on their property, and punishes those who do not protect their intellectual property with a vengeance. I think it reached absurd new heights when Apple, who "patented" rounded corners on their iPad, went after other tablet makers for rounding the corners of their tablets.

[ny biker]

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but it seems to me that the root of the problem is "trademark law" - if a name is trademarked and the trademark owner doesn't pursue others using the name (or nearly the same name), don't they then lose the protective rights of the trademark? A lot of the patent and trademark law seems like it rewards firms that hound others who might, even remotely, be infringing on their property, and punishes those who do not protect their intellectual property with a vengeance. I think it reached absurd new heights when Apple, who "patented" rounded corners on their iPad, went after other tablet makers for rounding the corners of their tablets.

I'm also far from an expert on legal matters, but it seems that a licensing agreement is another way of addressing the problem of protecting the trademark, especially when the other user is not really a threat to the trademark holder's business.

[Irulan]

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but it seems to me that the root of the problem is "trademark law" - if a name is trademarked and the trademark owner doesn't pursue others using the name (or nearly the same name), don't they then lose the protective rights of the trademark?

Yes - at least as I understand it. I've looked into copyright/trademark stuff for my business.
He who has the most money to throw at lawyers wins. Starbucks, McDonalds....stomping on the little guy.
ASI did what seems to be the right thing and I applaud them.

[Sylvia]

Looks like Mike Sinyard from Specialized came to the shop and officially apologized.
For those of you on facebook, here is the link (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=429367720519294&set=vb.219609484828453&type=2&theater).

[Irulan]

Yeah , I saw that. The comments are hilarious. I wonder if his legal dept will back off the little guys now.

[rebeccaC]

Looks like Mike Sinyard from Specialized came to the shop and officially apologized.
For those of you on facebook, here is the link (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=429367720519294&set=vb.219609484828453&type=2&theater).

Glad to see this…..even though the cynical side of me thinks of this as the pr side of Specialized handling the disaster!

More importantly it was good to see the bicycling community build this into the pr disaster for Specialized!!!

[Pax]

Glad to see this…..even though the cynical side of me thinks of this as the pr side of Specialized handling the disaster!

More importantly it was good to see the bicycling community build this into the pr disaster for Specialized!!!

Agree with you 100%, seems like a complete OH NO WHAT HAVE WE DONE moment!

[Wahine]

Glad to see this…..even though the cynical side of me thinks of this as the pr side of Specialized handling the disaster!

More importantly it was good to see the bicycling community build this into the pr disaster for Specialized!!!

Agreed. I still won't buy any more Specialized products.

[Owlie]

When it comes time for an upgrade, I have to admit that the Ruby or Amira were very strong contenders for the next road bike. (It was that or the SuperSix). Leaning more strongly to the SuperSix or the Fuji Supreme or Altamira, since ASI has some sort of common sense, apparently.

[Rebecca19804]

Yeah , I saw that. The comments are hilarious. I wonder if his legal dept will back off the little guys now.
Uh... unless this is an opportunistic hoax, it would appear not.
http://ridingagainstthegrain.com/2013/12/12/specialized-threatens-another-small-business-epix-gear/

[Irulan]

Uh... unless this is an opportunistic hoax, it would appear not.
http://ridingagainstthegrain.com/2013/12/12/specialized-threatens-another-small-business-epix-gear/

that has been withdrawn.
Here is the latest from Specialized FB page
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152051815802579&set=a.142199927578.113736.107067687578&type=1&theater

[TrekDianna]

I am tempted to say that I won't buy specialized anymore based on this, but that would be difficult since it's specialized bikes that feel like they are made perfect for me :(

[ny biker]

Specialized is a big sponsor in women's pro cycling. Generally I try to support companies who do that sort of thing. I don't have any of their bikes but I am now less likely to buy any of their other products as a result of this behavior.

[Seajay]

Can any of you who still hold a grudge here name any other major company's founder/CEO who has flown out to personally apologize and post "I own it and apologize" to the world of the web?

The owner at Roubaix seems to be OK with understanding and being open to forgiveness.

But apparently that's not good enough for you?

At some point, who is acting like a "jerk" may be shifting.

I've met and talked with Mr. Sinyard. He is a human being and not the monster you would like to make him to be. The environment he gives to his staff to work in is to be envied.
There is simply no way one person can have a finger on EVERY aspect of a company so large. He responded in as human a way as I could imagine.
I suggest you give the man some credit.

[Irulan]

How many of you have written off Starbucks? Don't buy Mattel toys? Don't go to McDonalds? (lol that one is easy) These three known trademark bullies don't even make the top ten list.
Apple, Lance Armstrong Foundation and Facebook are in the top 10 of Trademark Bullies according to Business Insider
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-lance-armstrong-is-one-of-the-biggest-trademark-bullies-in-america-2012-3#

Are you ready give up your iPhone and/or Facebook?

[thekarens]

How many of you have written off Starbucks? Don't buy Mattel toys? Don't go to McDonalds? (lol that one is easy) These three known trademark bullies don't even make the top ten list.
Apple, Lance Armstrong Foundation and Facebook are in the top 10 of Trademark Bullies according to Business Insider
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-lance-armstrong-is-one-of-the-biggest-trademark-bullies-in-america-2012-3#

Are you ready give up your iPhone and/or Facebook?

Out of all those the only one I use is FB. And no, I won't be giving it up. And no, I won't be buying a Specialized ever either.

[rebeccaC]

Can any of you who still hold a grudge here name any other major company's founder/CEO who has flown out to personally apologize and post "I own it and apologize" to the world of the web?

The owner at Roubaix seems to be OK with understanding and being open to forgiveness.

But apparently that's not good enough for you?

At some point, who is acting like a "jerk" may be shifting.

.

What do you think the contents of the conversation about filming the apology were? As I said earlier it can easily be seen as PR rather than just a simple honest apology. I'm sure they felt they needed to make it go away though!

I'm a very forgiving woman, to a fault at times, but most of the contents of the Volagi lawsuit alone were so ridiculous that it struck a deep cord of injustice with me especially with its predatory financial cost to Mr. Choi and Mr. Forsman. It will take some time to see if Mr. Sinyard and especially the Specialized lawyers have learned anything from this. I think this is more about the lawyers than Sinyard but, if he hasn't already, he needs to have a strong conversation with them about these kinds of lawsuits.

I do hold my nose when buying apple computers but do it anyway. I also support a number of organizations doing work in child labor and women's employment opportunities in developing countries…Specialized doesn't have any products that I need so that's a mute point for me with them.

The future will tell us how genuine Sinyard's apology was.

[smilingcat]

No Facebook, no Apple, no Mac Donald, Kellog, no Mattel, no Zynga either... Starbucks grudgingly. I prefer local mom and pop coffee house. It isn't too hard to do where I live.

I guess I'm not much of a consumer. oh no Twitter. google not much of a choice there with android phone.

[Pax]

Can any of you who still hold a grudge here name any other major company's founder/CEO who has flown out to personally apologize and post "I own it and apologize" to the world of the web?

The owner at Roubaix seems to be OK with understanding and being open to forgiveness.

But apparently that's not good enough for you?

At some point, who is acting like a "jerk" may be shifting.

I've met and talked with Mr. Sinyard. He is a human being and not the monster you would like to make him to be. The environment he gives to his staff to work in is to be envied.
There is simply no way one person can have a finger on EVERY aspect of a company so large. He responded in as human a way as I could imagine.
I suggest you give the man some credit.
You seem to have a dog in this hunt. I don't. I can only respond to the "bigger company going after the smaller company" one at a time. Right now Specialized has behaved in a way that causes me to not trust them, right now I won't buy their product. They chose their response to a perceived threat, I'll choose my response to their perceived callousness.

[Owlie]

Do I think that Sinyard is personally responsible for any single action by the lawyers that Spec uses? No. Do I think that in large companies, there may be instances where the the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing? Sure. Do I think that companies have the right to protect their trademarks? Yes, but not the extent of the crazy that we've seen lately.

However, what about the suits that Sinyard or the other senior execs didn't choose to stop? The only reason that this one (and the Epix one) wasn't pursued was the blowback on social media and the resultant bad publicity. (And, in the case of Cafe Roubaix, ASI making a statement about it, though I don't know if that would hold up in Canada.) They have a history of bullying behavior on against small businesses that really don't represent a threat to their brand, and aren't really likely to mislead consumers (unless for some reason they had a hard time distinguishing mountain bikes from bags). Is Sinyard's apology genuine? Maybe. Or maybe it's a case of "Sorry, I was a jerk and everyone called me out on it but if no one had I wouldn't be here apologizing." Only time will tell if this really does get their legal department to back off, but until I can see evidence of that, I am not buying a Specialized product.

It's not being a jerk, it's refusing to reward bullying.

[Helene2013]

I'm glad that Specialized came out and told that story. At the same time, I'm not sure I believe them totally. Especially now, that Xmas is just around the corner, they would not want to lose too much money (gifts) from unhappy customers/cyclists. I tend to think it is more a PR thing too. To try to save the face for those who can buy into it more easily. As said, time will tell how they will treat the smaller ones later on. I think it is a lesson learned with the medias. I think other business, if read/followed that saga, will learn from it too. Medias like Facebook, Twitter, etc. can help you, but also kill you.

As for me, I am on the market to buy road shoes to put my new Keo Classic cleats. I tried a pair of Specialized Ember, which I liked - a lot. For comfort, and mostly for the BOA system. Will I buy them? Nope. Not for now. Other people referred me to Louis Garneau and Lake as they have the BOA system, which I may go try a pair of LG this afternoon.

I just can't think of purchasing Specialized just yet. Stubborn? May be. But I'm fine with this for now. :p

[shootingstar]

Frankly I was quite unaware of how Specialized had been a bully manufacturer in the past and how they work business-wise.

Of all the bike stuff I have, I might have had a pair gloves from a decade ago...long gone. I just haven't bought anything by them --by coincidence.
I tend to buy cycling gear ...about 30% from national sporting chains (REI, MEC) and the rest from local independent LBS's over the past 20 yrs.