Sugoi Firewall tights -- how low can you go??

[ny biker]

I'm looking for some warmer cycling tights. The Sugoi Midzero tights are good for temps in the high 40s but for anything lower than that I get cold.

I do like the way the Midzeros fit, so I'm looking at Sugoi's Firewall tights. For folks who have them, are they good at blocking the wind? What's the coldest weather you find them comfortable for?

Thanks very much!!

[Crankin]

Hmm, I have the mid zeros and sub zeros; never heard of the Firewall tights. I can wear the sub zeros in the 30s, however, I also tend to wear my Ibex tights that I wear x country skiing. I also do not regularly ride when it's in the 20's, although that's not to say the mercury has not ever slipped below 30 when I've been riding. The Ibex have a wool back and are more windproof. The Firewall tights kind of sound like a pair of tights my DH has. Total windproof, sort of heavy, almost neoprene material. He rode to work one morning last winter, in them, when it was 18 degrees.

[ny biker]

How are the Subzeros at blocking the wind?


These are the Firewall tights I'm looking at:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodSU_40553F.html

[Crankin]

The only difference between the mid zeros and subzeros is the thickness of the fleece inside. There is no special wind blocking material; it's the same as the mid zeros. For me, realistically, the Firewalls would be overkill, because I don't ride when it's super windy, anyway, and I have the Ibex tights that can serve the same purpose. I wear those x country skiing and snow shoeing when it's -10 F, up to about 32. Of course, wind on your legs, when you are in the woods is less of an issue in those sports!

[ny biker]

Thanks.

I'm thinking that wind-blocking tights would be better for me, since I seem to suffer from the cold more than many people. I have Ibex capris, but I don't love the way they fit so I don't know that I'd like the tights. Also I'd like to get something from TE, since I'm going to ask for the tights for Christmas (or for a gift card to put toward purchasing them).

I know that PI Amfibs are reputed to be very warm, but PI bottoms don't always fit me well.

[Catrin]

I LOVE my PI Amfibs - very warm, great wind-blockers as well. Mine don't have a chamois - is there a local source where you could try them on to see how they fit?

[Crankin]

You know, generally Ibex bottoms don't fit me that well. They are made for tall people with boyish figures (I once tried on a pair at the Arcadian Shop in Lenox, MA while on a TE field trip. That had me laughing quite hard, as I couldn't get them over my knees. And they were a size bigger than I normally wear). The Ibex pants I have are old; bought in 2005 for me by DH. Probably ordered from STP. THe elastic is totally out of the waist and they are getting pilly. But, I don't think these are made anymore.

[Owlie]

Try the Amfibs. They're very warm and have the nice windblock material, and are reasonably water-resistant. It seems like PI changes the cut on their shorts a little bit every year, so it might be worth trying them on.

[Catrin]

I find the PI tights fit different from the shorts, but that might just be me. I've an odd shape for a woman...

[zoom-zoom]

I know that PI Amfibs are reputed to be very warm, but PI bottoms don't always fit me well.

I have the Amfibs without chamois, but am NOT fond of the fit. I've wondered about the Firewalls, since I LOVE LOVE LOVE my SubZeros and I'd expect them to have a similar fit.

[Owlie]

I have the Amfibs without chamois, but am NOT fond of the fit. I've wondered about the Firewalls, since I LOVE LOVE LOVE my SubZeros and I'd expect them to have a similar fit.

I like the performance of the Amfibs (I've worn them in snow and was warm and dry) but not the fit. I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like the fit, though.

[pll]

Here's a different issue on winter tights: I have both an older version of the Sugoi firewall and the Pearl Izumi Amfibs (neither one has a chamois). The thicker fleece and wind proof material cause enough pressure on my patellas that it becomes painful fast. I also tried the Assos LL.uma S5 and I could tell it would be trouble on my knees within minutes. A couple of knickers I have (Shebeest and Assos), without windblock, will also lead to patella pain, just not as fast. What works best to avoid the pain is to have tights that are a size bigger than what you normally would wear. I stay away from the windblock fabrics because they are less pliable. Instead, I apply some vaseline on my knees before putting the tights on.

One of my friends has the same problem with her knees, and she also wears tights that are a size bigger than normal. I wonder who else has experienced this.

[Crankin]

Not this, but last year, I started noticing issues with my gut, from wearing the 2 layers (shorts and tights). This has never bothered me before, but I do have a very sensitive stomach. Doing crunches will make it hurt, not from the exercise, but more it irritates some upper GI stuff I have. Anyway, the problem is less when I wear my Sugoi shorts and not the Bellas, as the waist is lower and flatter. But, I only have it with the Midzeroes, not the Subzeroes. The tights are the same size, but the Subzeroes are just a bit looser and more comfortable.

[ny biker]

I tried on some Amfibs last night. They certainly were warm. There were almost too loose in the waist but otherwise were a bit too tight. Very snug on the calves and I don't think shorts with a chamois would have fit comfortably underneath. (This is nothing like the problems I have with my PI shorts, which I think are Symphony shorts -- they are loose in the butt.)

Pll, if your Amfibs are old, do they have the same articulated knees that the current models have? I was only standing in a fitting room at the time, but I felt like there was plenty of room in the knees. Also -- do you find the Firewalls comfortable with temps in the 30s?

[OakLeaf]

PLL, I have the same problem. To me it's really about the length, or maybe the fit at the ankle: the pressure on my kneecaps happens when there isn't enough length in the tights to let my knees flex. If they're zipped, then leaving the bottom couple of inches unzipped (and wearing longer socks to compensate) lets them ride up toward my calves and put less pressure on my knees. If they're elastic cuffs and not too tight, you could try just setting them higher on your ankles.

[ny biker]

Not this, but last year, I started noticing issues with my gut, from wearing the 2 layers (shorts and tights). This has never bothered me before, but I do have a very sensitive stomach. Doing crunches will make it hurt, not from the exercise, but more it irritates some upper GI stuff I have. Anyway, the problem is less when I wear my Sugoi shorts and not the Bellas, as the waist is lower and flatter. But, I only have it with the Midzeroes, not the Subzeroes. The tights are the same size, but the Subzeroes are just a bit looser and more comfortable.

I've found that there can be noticeable variation between items of clothing that are the same style and size. For example if I take two pairs of "identical" jeans into the fitting room, one will be larger than the other, enough to make the difference between being comfortable and being too tight in the waist. It has to do with the way the fabric is cut. They take a tall stack of fabric and cut it with a laser, and the fabric on the bottom is usually cut slightly larger than the fabric on the top. I imagine that's also possible with cycling tights.

[Catrin]

Here's a different issue on winter tights: I have both an older version of the Sugoi firewall and the Pearl Izumi Amfibs (neither one has a chamois). The thicker fleece and wind proof material cause enough pressure on my patellas that it becomes painful fast. I also tried the Assos LL.uma S5 and I could tell it would be trouble on my knees within minutes. A couple of knickers I have (Shebeest and Assos), without windblock, will also lead to patella pain, just not as fast. What works best to avoid the pain is to have tights that are a size bigger than what you normally would wear. I stay away from the windblock fabrics because they are less pliable. Instead, I apply some vaseline on my knees before putting the tights on.

One of my friends has the same problem with her knees, and she also wears tights that are a size bigger than normal. I wonder who else has experienced this.

I've noted this with my Sugoui MidZero tights (no chamois), but my knees are much happier with my Amfibs. That being said, my Amfibs do have a looser fit in my legs than the Sugoui tights do. Not having the chamois does give us different size options for sure. I've a small in both pairs of tights, but they fit quite differently.

[pll]

I tried on some Amfibs last night. They certainly were warm. There were almost too loose in the waist but otherwise were a bit too tight. Very snug on the calves and I don't think shorts with a chamois would have fit comfortably underneath. (This is nothing like the problems I have with my PI shorts, which I think are Symphony shorts -- they are loose in the butt.)

Pll, if your Amfibs are old, do they have the same articulated knees that the current models have? I was only standing in a fitting room at the time, but I felt like there was plenty of room in the knees. Also -- do you find the Firewalls comfortable with temps in the 30s?

They do not have articulated knees. I will try on the new ones soon -- the fabric on mine feels really thick and I touched the new ones and the fabric feels so much thinner!

[ny biker]

So, I will not be wearing the Firewall tights after all. I ordered them last week and received them on Friday. But for some reason, Sugoi has put a big horizontal seam across the backs of the thighs, and these seams dig into my legs. They look horrible and I'm pretty sure they will be extremely uncomfortable if I wear them for any amount of time. This disappoints me.

On Saturday I went out shopping, and I stopped by the LBS to see what they had available. They did not have any windproof women's tights in stock. They did have some men's tights, including the AmFibs and Bontrager RXLs. I tried on the Bontragers just for fun. They were a size large, and they fit in the legs, but waist went up way too high and they were huge in the butt. Anyway it wasn't a total waste of time, because I spoke with someone who works there about the tights I was looking for and mentioned that I was worried that the AmFibs would be too warm for riding in the high 30s/low 40s. I also told him that I tend to feel the cold more than other people, and he said that he does, too, and that he wore his AmFib tights for a ride on New Year's Day and was comfortable. It was in the high 30s/low 40s on that day.

Moving on, I went to REI, where I found women's Elite AmFib tights on sale. I took a couple of pairs into the fitting room. I could get them on, but they felt too small overall. They were a size medium, which I'm pretty sure is the same size I had tried on at a different REI a couple of months ago. Then I found one pair in a size large on the rack and tried that on. They fit okay, not really looser in the waist than the mediums and a better fit in the legs than the smaller size. So I bought them.

I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier, but I delayed buying the Firewall tights because I had hoped to receive them, or a gift card to apply to the purchase, for Christmas. This did not happen. In mid-December I noticed that REI was selling the 2012 Firewall tights on their website, on sale. I didn't buy them because I has already asked for them for Christmas, and now they are sold out. But I am wondering if the 2012 version also had the crazy seams on the thighs.

I think a big difference between the Firewalls and the AmFibs is that the Firewalls have Midzero fabric on the backs so they are not wind resistant all the way around. The AmFibs seem to be completely wind-resistant. My guess is that this makes the AmFibs warmer. I hope they are not too warm for the weather I plan to wear them in, but now that I have them, I will be finding out soon enough!!

[Blueberry]

My amfib rule is below 40 without sun and below 35 with sun. Of course, YMMV. Haven't found too cold for them - I usually wimp out for some other reason.

[ny biker]

My amfib rule is below 40 without sun and below 35 with sun. Of course, YMMV. Haven't found too cold for them - I usually wimp out for some other reason.

I had my first AmFib test last night. I wore them to walk from the gym to my car, which was about a 10 minute walk (parking is expensive near this gym so I park over in the next neighborhood and walk from there). This was during the height of our "polar vortex" experience -- temps in the teens with arctic-cold blasts of wind.

Unfortunately I must report that the AmFib tights were not wholly up to the challenge. My legs were a bit cold.

On the other hand, my usually-warm-enough ski mittens were also not up to the task last night -- my fingers were painfully cold while I was driving home. So I cannot fault Pearl Izumi.

I look forward to trying out the tights in more normal conditions.