Bike Fitting/Shopping services

[Wahine]

Hi Ladies!

Some of you know me well, some don't as I've not been on the forum as much in the last few years. Just too dang busy to do everything that I want to. Part of what's been keeping me busy is bike fitting. I've been going through the Bike PT program which is a series of courses for physical therapists and PTAs to learn bike fitting from an ergonomic/biomechanics/injury prevention point of view while still understanding the performance side of things.

I recently finished the last level of this course work which was mostly related to custom fitting, special adaptation for people with unusual needs and bike geometry comparison/contrast.

I'm thinking about adding a service to my coaching company which is basically by-the-hour hiring of me to help with personal shopping for a new bike. How I envision this service is having the client send me information about their current bike including some photos of them on their bike using a trainer and billing by the hour as I help them find a bike that will meet their desired needs. From my end I would have to analyze their current bike fit/position as best I could from the photo and help them find a new bike by scouring geometry data while considering performance as it relates to geomtery and materials and ergonomics. What you're getting is advice from an experienced (18+ years) physical therapist that is also an experienced cyclist, (road racing, mtb racing, triathlon including 4 IM finishes and one division win) and a woman to boot.

Here's my question. Is this a service that you would be willing to pay for? If so, would you be willing to pay about $150 to 200 for said service? I'm basing the price on my current coaching costs per hour and estimated time I think it would take me.

Thanks in advance for any input you have. I'm truly looking for honest answers here and constructive criticism.

Cassie

[OakLeaf]

I'd pay that in half a heartbeat. It sounds really lowball, to me. Is that what others are getting in your area? Do they have qualifications to match yours?


... and that in terms of marketing, as well as getting what you're worth. If something's too cheap, I worry about the quality, and $150 is that cheap IMO in terms of what you're offering.

[Wahine]

Thanks for the feedback Oak. The thing is that I don't think there is anyone in my area offering this service so I have no idea what I should charge. I currently charge $75/hour for one on one coaching so I thought I'd just stick to that fee schedule. Perhaps I should have a higher starting rate, reserve the right to charge more if the task takes longer than expected but conversely give a discount if it turns out to be simple and not take much time.

[rebeccaC]

When I was just beginning to think about long distance riding I enjoyed the learning process of researching what would work best for me bike fit/purpose wise. My last purchase was a Seven. There were detailed measurements sent to them and phone conversations with them about fit, ride quality/purposes and frame material. That may be a model that might work well for you in some cases too. If you haven't already, looking at the online measurement forms from some of the custom builders might give you more insight into how they are using measurements. The one thing that really helped me was my dealer using Seven's recommendations on an adjustable fit bike to see how I felt about it. That in person interaction with an adjustable bike is something I'd like to have with a service like you're thinking about.

I see the value of those kinds of conversations with someone knowledgeable. If I was spending a few thousand+ and if where I was buying it from didn’t have someone engaging me in those conversations and I didn’t want to do the research then I’d be willing to pay for someone knowledgeable to help me think through it.

Someone just beginning in bicycling may not see the value of it or more importantly want to spend much. Some one spending a lot may already have a sufficient knowledge base and not need the service. In any case I hope you find the niche and price point where it works well for you and your customer. It is a good service to offer!! Have you thought about how you’d market the service?

edit....I would like a good discussion of what your responsibilities are and an accurate idea of pricing at the onset.

[Catrin]

Thanks for the feedback Oak. The thing is that I don't think there is anyone in my area offering this service so I have no idea what I should charge. I currently charge $75/hour for one on one coaching so I thought I'd just stick to that fee schedule. Perhaps I should have a higher starting rate, reserve the right to charge more if the task takes longer than expected but conversely give a discount if it turns out to be simple and not take much time.

I like this approach, charge the higher starting right with the right to adjust up or down as needed. This sounds like a win-win for both you and your clients, some will certainly require more research/work than others.

If it helps to put it in context, my fitter does "life time fittings". This is tied to the bike and that one time fitting charge of $250 is all that he will ever charge for a separate fitting fee for as long as you own that bike. All else is included, the only possible future costs are for bike parts and labor - this also includes cleat adjustments, etc. Jon is a very talented fitter and while he isn't a PT, he's learned how to think out of the box over the years and help clients with a wide range of physical issues on the bike.

[TigerMom]

I think that paying to get help to find the right "off the shelf" bike for customers would be great since custom bikes cost so much.

However, I think that as a customer, I would want to know approximately how many hours it would take you to help me find the right bike for me after analyzing all the data. Some of the bike fitters than I know also does what Catrin mentioned above....paying around $250/$300 one time to find the right bike for me, fit me on the bike that I bought, and a followup fitting one to two months later. However, the fitters that I know do NOT do lifetime fittings, even if it is the same bike. Catrin's fitter is a downright steal for lifetime fittings.

[Catrin]

My fitter carried that practice over from his former LBS for which he was the general manager as well as the chief fitter. The "lifetime fitting" was one of the philosophies they adopted when opening the store that really spoke to their focus - if the customer is happy with the bike they will keep returning - and they DO! They depend totally on word of mouth and do no official advertising, and have done very well for themselves in the 6-7 years since they first opened.

[tulip]

I think the service could be quite valuable for some people. That being said, I do not think that I would use the service. I've been cycling for 30 years and am comfortable shopping for a bike because I know what to look for. But bike shopping and fitting can be daunting for newcomers, so I think there would definitely be takers.

I did pay for a fitting once. It was $100 and very comprehensive, and it was 10 years ago. Your prices seem fair (assuming it's not $200 per hour--but for the whole package, right?) Are there bikeshops in your area that provide fittings when you purchase a bike from them? That might be some competition, or perhaps you could work with such a bike shop.

Best wishes for much success on this.

[Wahine]

I like this approach, charge the higher starting right with the right to adjust up or down as needed. This sounds like a win-win for both you and your clients, some will certainly require more research/work than others.

If it helps to put it in context, my fitter does "life time fittings". This is tied to the bike and that one time fitting charge of $250 is all that he will ever charge for a separate fitting fee for as long as you own that bike. All else is included, the only possible future costs are for bike parts and labor - this also includes cleat adjustments, etc. Jon is a very talented fitter and while he isn't a PT, he's learned how to think out of the box over the years and help clients with a wide range of physical issues on the bike.

I'm thinking of this as being something I can offer from a distance without an actual face to face fitting. But maybe some Skype time.

However, I am still toying with the idea of getting a sizer cycle to help people with in person fittings. That service I'm planning to offer as a flat rate that would include being fit on the sizer cycle, then fit on the actual bicycle when it comes in with a number of follow-ups, I was thinking 2 or 3. I hesitate to do a "for the life of the bicycle deal" because it might invite clients that may also be patients with long term issues, to follow-up with me a bunch of times for situations that really aren't bike fit situations anymore.

To do a for the life of the bike deal if you're dealing with relatively physically sound people, would be feasible as you should be able to dial a fit in in 3 sessions and it's easy to make quick adjustments for things like cleats once you know the client and their fit.

[TigerMom]

I'm thinking of this as being something I can offer from a distance without an actual face to face fitting. But maybe some Skype time.

However, I am still toying with the idea of getting a sizer cycle to help people with in person fittings. That service I'm planning to offer as a flat rate that would include being fit on the sizer cycle, then fit on the actual bicycle when it comes in with a number of follow-ups, I was thinking 2 or 3. I hesitate to do a "for the life of the bicycle deal" because it might invite clients that may also be patients with long term issues, to follow-up with me a bunch of times for situations that really aren't bike fit situations anymore.

To do a for the life of the bike deal if you're dealing with relatively physically sound people, would be feasible as you should be able to dial a fit in in 3 sessions and it's easy to make quick adjustments for things like cleats once you know the client and their fit.

Personally, I would not choose an online bike fitter via Skype. I definitely would want a fitter that was "hands on" "face to face". I would probably pay to do a flat rate fitting on a sizer cycle and then have the fitter suggest bicycles for me and then have 2-3 followups.

[Wahine]

Personally, I would not choose an online bike fitter via Skype. I definitely would want a fitter that was "hands on" "face to face". I would probably pay to do a flat rate fitting on a sizer cycle and then have the fitter suggest bicycles for me and then have 2-3 followups.

The online service wouldn't be a fitting. It would be a consultation to help with purchasing decisions. The only reason for a photo or Skype would be to help me see what the rider's posture was like so I could get a sense of are they more upright or aero, what's their flexibility like, that sort of thing. That information would be helpful when choosing between models of bikes. For example, if the person is locking their arms out with their hands on the tops of the bars and they have narrowed their search down to two models of bikes, all other things being equal, I would likely suggest the bike with the taller headtube. But I would not be doing any actually fitting. That should most definitely be done face to face.

The sizer cycle service is a totally different thing.

ETA - Thanks for all the feedback ladies. This is helping me sort things out and consider how I present the services I offer.

[OakLeaf]

Do you think you could get enough information from eyeballing a photo or video? I had in mind that you'd take the rider's measurements to help them with frame selection.

[Crankin]

I had the Guru fitting on the sizer at my LBS. They just had become a Guru dealer. It was very long (3 hours) and it still took a lot of convincing on my part to get them to listen to what I wanted in a custom bike. Don't get me wrong, I love my bike, but I think the experience would have been enhanced by having someone like Wahine doing it. However, they do readjustments and updated fitting for free. They should, for what I spent on the bike. I haven't been back for one, because I just don't think that they "get it," when dealing with a rider like me, who is not a racer. I get treated nicely, very nicely because I think one of the woman who works there read a scathing post I wrote about them, here on TE.

[Irulan]

I'm not sure how this fits in. I recently saw something about a bike fit app where you would take photos and then certain angles were evaluated. I wonder if some thing like that could be used with the evaluation?

[Blueberry]

I'm not sure how this fits in. I recently saw something about a bike fit app where you would take photos and then certain angles were evaluated. I wonder if some thing like that could be used with the evaluation?

Something like this (http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/automated-measurement-review.html)?

[Irulan]

Yep.

[Wahine]

Blueberry and Irulan, thanks for bringing my attention that link. I've finally been off the road and with some spare time enough to look at it.

The app is interesting. It is certainly a good starting point, particularly if you're mostly looking at saddle height. I looked at the screen capture images in the blog post and there are a lot of things going on with this man's fit that would not be addressed by the app. In summary, he looks to have poor hamsting flexibility and/or core strength. Clues to that are in his spinal and upper extremity posture. What was cool about this for me is that I feel like I could give someone some really good feedback about fit issues on their current bike that should be considered when purchasing a new bike. It gave me some confidence that using photos to help make purchasing decisions could often be very helpful.

Thanks for the information.