New Rider with Saddle Troubles

[CaliRider]

Hello and thanks for reading this post when there are gazillions of posts about saddles. I've read through the very helpful links and articles about finding the perfect saddle, and still I'm struggling.

My Trek road bike came with a Bontrager Affinity saddle. It's not awful, but I can't seem to make it work for rides longer than 30-45 minutes. I have no trouble with my sit bones; that part is perfectly comfortable. (BTW, I have no idea what "size" this seat is -- is there a way to find out?) I get lots of soft tissue pain from it. I've tried changing fore and aft positions, moved the nose up and down, etc. After reading through several posts, it sounded like a Terry Butterfly would solve my problems. OUCH! I tried and tried to like it, but it was torturous. The cut-outs didn't work in the right places and created pain in NEW places, and the nose was much too wide. I've determined that I don't like much padding, and I like a narrow nose on the saddle. Do you have any recommendations? Our LBS offerings are meager, and I'm really hesitant to shell out big bucks online to be stuck with something that won't work. If anyone has these specific issues and has found a good solution, I would love to hear it.

Thank you in advance!!!

[ny biker]

The saddle you have is probably the Affinity R, which is the most padded version. If the size and shape is otherwise good, you can get the RL or RXL , which have less padding. The RXL is the firmest, but is also expensive and has different (carbon) rails which will require a different seatpost clamp due to their shape.

If your LBS sells Trek bikes, they should also carry the Bontrager saddles. Or you can get one from http://www.bontrager.com/products/components/saddles. They offer a 30-day unconditional guarantee.

As for determining the size of your current saddle, measure at the widest part. It would be either 134, 144 or 154 mm, if your bike is a WSD model.

BTW I think if you look at the specs for your bike you can tell which version of the Affinity you have -- I think "Affinity 1" on the spec list means it's the Affinity R and Affinity 2 means RL.

[Grits]

The Selle Italia Lady Diva Gel has a nice wide cut out. It worked well for me when the Terry saddles did not. You can get it from Performance which has an excellent return policy.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1066809_-1___

[OakLeaf]

Specialized also offers a 30-day return policy on saddles purchased from their website. You might look at a Ruby or an Oura, or I know Muirenn has had good luck with a Toupé. There's no reason to limit yourself to "women's" saddles. Back in the day, "men's" saddles didn't come in the widths that women often, but not always, need ... and I'm pretty sure the cut-out was invented by Georgena Terry ... but nowadays, the differences are often more stylistic than substantive.


ETA - modern Terry saddles are very wedge (pear) shaped, which sounds like it could be your issue. It's possible to need a very T-shaped saddle without having the characteristic thigh chafing ... what happens to me, if a saddle is too wedge-shaped, the pedaling motion forces me forward so all my weight is on the nose of the saddle, on my soft parts. Not good. The wider your sitbones are, the harder it is to find a truly T-shaped saddle outside of a tensioned leather saddle, but if you're narrower, you have a lot of options.

[CaliRider]

ETA - modern Terry saddles are very wedge (pear) shaped, which sounds like it could be your issue. It's possible to need a very T-shaped saddle without having the characteristic thigh chafing ... what happens to me, if a saddle is too wedge-shaped, the pedaling motion forces me forward so all my weight is on the nose of the saddle, on my soft parts. Not good. The wider your sitbones are, the harder it is to find a truly T-shaped saddle outside of a tensioned leather saddle, but if you're narrower, you have a lot of options.

Thank you, OakLeaf...that sounds like a probable explanation. So...are the seats you mentioned t-shaped?

[OakLeaf]

Yes, they are, although I can mention one or two even more T-shaped if your sitbone width is narrower. I'm riding a Selle Italia Turbomatic now, which has an effective width around 150mm or so, though I'm one of the few here that that saddle works for. SI makes an even more T-shaped saddle called the SLR Monolink, but they're pretty expensive (carbon rails and shell) and are only 131 mm wide, too narrow for me.

[CaliRider]

Thanks so much. I'm going to order the Specialized Ruby. If that doesn't work, I'll check into the other suggestions listed here.

[Catrin]

The Selle Italia Lady Diva Gel has a nice wide cut out. It worked well for me when the Terry saddles did not. You can get it from Performance which has an excellent return policy.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1066809_-1___

For me the Diva was much too wide, the LDY Gel Flow is also a good Selle Italia women's cutout saddle that might work if the Diva is too wide. There are a wide variety of options out there but, sadly, trying it out personally is the only real way to determine which works best for you. It is about more than the sitbones, it is also about the shape of the saddle and just WHAT hits WHERE...

[Wahine]

Finding the right saddle is tricky business. But keep in mind that if you have a narrower pelvis, a lot of "mens" saddles will work for you too. That opens up a whole bunch more models to choose from.

[CaliRider]

Now I'm second-guessing my decision to purchase a Ruby. I'm not convinced I need the cutouts. I had such extreme discomfort with the cutouts on the Butterfly. I think if the middle channel on my Bontrager would continue all the way down the saddle it would probably be comfortable. I also want less padding on the nose. I'm looking at the WTB Deva SLT or the Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour -- thoughts?

[Catrin]

Now I'm second-guessing my decision to purchase a Ruby. I'm not convinced I need the cutouts. I had such extreme discomfort with the cutouts on the Butterfly. I think if the middle channel on my Bontrager would continue all the way down the saddle it would probably be comfortable. I also want less padding on the nose. I'm looking at the WTB Deva SLT or the Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour -- thoughts?

I don't have time to find it right now, but there is a "cut out test" that you can search for here on the forum that will indicate if you've a need for a cutout or not. Search for it and see what you think, Knotted Yet was the one who posted it.

[OakLeaf]

Knott's cut-out test is pretty simple. You want to sit on a hard, flat surface like a straight chair or the top of a retaining wall with your sitbones firmly on the surface, and your legs and torso more or less at the angles they'd be when you ride. If your soft parts feel smashed against the surface, you'll probably want a saddle with a cutout. If they feel spacious, you might do better without one.



.... but, if you're feeling a need for a longer channel on your Bontrager, then it doesn't seem likely that you'll want a saddle that has no room for your soft parts (whether it makes that room with a cut-out or with a channel).

[zoom-zoom]

Depends upon the cutout, too...some worked OK, some were torture devices. My only regret is waiting so long to try an SMP saddle. It was like a game-changer!

[Owlie]

The shape, size and position of the cutout changes a lot. The Jett works reasonably well for me, though sometimes I wish it was a little deeper toward the back. I'm eyeing the SMP saddles that zoom-zoom's mentioned for a next bike. The cut out on the Selle Italia Lady Gel Flow I used to have did not work.

[CaliRider]

So....next question....can you tell immediately when the saddle is right? I just picked up a Toupe from the LBS (didn't have a Ruby). They're letting me try it for a week. I just took a quick spin and didn't find it particularly comfortable overall. So....how did you know when you'd found the right saddle?

[OakLeaf]

To me it takes at least a 35 or 40 mile ride for problems to really show up. It isn't how many rides, it's the distance, as I settle into the saddle, and minor discomfort does or does not become major. IME if it's good for 40 it's good for 100+. Can't speak for anyone else, though.

[zoom-zoom]

To me it takes at least a 35 or 40 mile ride for problems to really show up. It isn't how many rides, it's the distance, as I settle into the saddle, and minor discomfort does or does not become major. IME if it's good for 40 it's good for 100+. Can't speak for anyone else, though.

+1. But if it's not good at 10 it will be miserable at 40 and likely horrific at 100.

[TigerMom]

So....next question....can you tell immediately when the saddle is right? I just picked up a Toupe from the LBS (didn't have a Ruby). They're letting me try it for a week. I just took a quick spin and didn't find it particularly comfortable overall. So....how did you know when you'd found the right saddle?

If you did a quick spin and it's not comfortable....it's not the right saddle. Can you get your LBS to lend you other saddles to try before you buy?

This post might help you too:
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/09/all-about-smps/

[Sky King]

Just to add to the confusion, How about an all leather saddle w/ zero padding? Once I discovered how comfortable they were, I can't imagine riding anything else
Brooks B17 Imperial (http://store.biketouringnews.com/brooks-b17-imperial/)
Rivet Pearl (http://http://store.biketouringnews.com/rivet-pearl/)

[macski]

I agree with others that it appears you will likely prefer a t-shape saddle.

I had a Ruby that was reasonably comfortable - not really any pain but some numbness occasionally. Then I got a Jett and it is so much better - no problems for long rides.

You might want to ask your LBS if the have a Jett that you can try.

[CaliRider]

Thanks for the ongoing support here! I thought the link to Steve Hogg's SMP page was timely because I had ordered one and it arrived today!!!! I can't wait to try it out in the morning. I had no idea that finding a comfortable saddle would be so difficult, but the advice and opinions on this forum have been invaluable.

[CaliRider]

Update: My Selle SMP Lite 209 arrived yesterday, and this morning I took it out for a 25-mile ride. I am blown away. I need to make some minor adjustments, but it was night and day compared to the other saddles I've tried. I was riding with my husband and kept exclaiming about how comfortable I was and how nice it was not to feel pinched and smashed and otherwise in pain. I am very hopeful that I can now stop obsessively reading about every saddle under the sun and can concentrate on actually riding!

[zoom-zoom]

Yayayayayayayayay!!! This was exactly my experience with the Drakon (1 level firmer than the 209, but otherwise the same saddle) on my road bike. I recall my words being "game changer."

I now have a 209 on our tandem and am looking at a Glider for my CX bike. The only issue I have run into is that the seatpost on my road bike doesn't allow me to angle the Drakon nose up as high as I need, so I feel like I'm sliding off the front a bit. Makes my upper body tired really fast. Once I can figure out a better seatpost option it will be perfect.

[smittykitty]

Kinda thinking a might want to try one. Get chafing (raw) at panty line on 60+ mile rides. Besides, I haven't bought a new saddle for about 3 years now!

[Owlie]

Kinda thinking a might want to try one. Get chafing (raw) at panty line on 60+ mile rides. Besides, I haven't bought a new saddle for about 3 years now!

Ditto! Zoom, what's roughly the same padding level as the Jett?

[zoom-zoom]

Ditto! Zoom, what's roughly the same padding level as the Jett?

I think the Lite 209 is pretty close. The Drakon is more like the Ruby.

[CaliRider]

So while we're comparing SMP saddles, do you happen to know how the Glider differs from the 209? There is one listed on our local Craig's List right now, and I'm wondering if I should snatch it up.

[kermit]

I have both the glider a elite 209 on the way for trial. I was told the lite209 has a little more padding is longer and the cutout is a little wider than the glider.

[nuliajuk]

The effective width of the Glider is 110mm, while the Lite 209 has an effective width of 102mm. I have both and find the Glider a bit softer. When I ride the Lite 209 it seems to take a little longer to ease into it. Both seem to be recommended for a medium-wide pelvis, but the Glider is a little bit more plush.

[zoom-zoom]

The effective width of the Glider is 110mm, while the Lite 209 has an effective width of 102mm. I have both and find the Glider a bit softer. When I ride the Lite 209 it seems to take a little longer to ease into it. Both seem to be recommended for a medium-wide pelvis, but the Glider is a little bit more plush.

The Glider is sounding increasingly ideal for my CX bike...it's flatter than the Lite 209, too, right...I mean less curved-up at the rear...?

[kermit]

So I got my trial saddles in today and they both look promising. The lite 209 is definitely longer with more padding and a slightly wider cutout. Think I will start with that one first.

[smittykitty]

Waiting to hear!!!!

[kermit]

So a quick hour ride and I like it. The lite 209 seems to be the perfect width and the cutout is a dream. The way the saddle is angled is the bonus I think. It is a different feeling saddle with the channel on either side of my uhum area. No numbness or chafing. Better than anything I have ridden. Going to try longer ride tomorrow.

[zoom-zoom]

The lite 209 seems to be the perfect width and the cutout is a dream. The way the saddle is angled is the bonus I think. It is a different feeling saddle with the channel on either side of my uhum area. No numbness or chafing. Better than anything I have ridden.

This was my experience, as well.

[Owlie]

Oi, Selle SMP (or parent company)--you should give these ladies a commission. It's not in the cards right now, but I'm contemplating getting one for the road bike, probably the Lite 209. Things get a little unpleasant in the drops, and if I acquire a new roadie in the future, I can move it to that--the Jett doesn't seem like it'll agree with the more aggressive geometry I want. Too many models to make a choice. :/ I'm confused.

Zoom, you've used a Jett, but what version was it? It seems like the Jett I have on the road bike (picked up on clearance--it's got the gray sit spots) seems firmer than the current version. It's got some squish at the sit spots and a bit at the nose, but it's not as cushy as more recent ones. Something between the Ruby and the Jett in firmness would be good, but if it's about equivalent to the old Jett, we're good.

I *think* the Jett is okay on my CX bike. Still playing around with the position, but I haven't gotten enough miles in yet to say for sure.

(I should have picked one up when I still had my job...)

[zoom-zoom]

I've had a couple of Jetts. One was maybe from 3 years ago and another I bought used from someone here...the previous version to the one I had new, I think. It never worked great for me, to begin with, so I couldn't tell much difference.

[Cycling Mama]

I am new to this forum so I don't know if I am allowed to post links to articles ( please remove if this is not allowed :)) but here is one I posted on my blog about saddle choices and what can be causing you discomfort. it looks at saddle sores but does explain about saddle choices. :)

http://www.cyclingmama.com/saddle-sores-the-cause-and-the-cure/

[kermit]

Another quick ride today, definitely like it. I was surprised to have a little soreness but nothing crazy. I believe soreness will go away with more rides. Pulled the trigger and have a red one on the way.

[CaliRider]

Oi, Selle SMP (or parent company)--you should give these ladies a commission.

I second that!

[zoom-zoom]

Another quick ride today, definitely like it. I was surprised to have a little soreness but nothing crazy. I believe soreness will go away with more rides. Pulled the trigger and have a red one on the way.

I feel like I'm starting all over with sitbones soreness (especially on the back of the tandem where I have a lot less "wiggle room")...because my weight is resting more forward on my sitbones than with other saddles. But I have NO up-front pain/chafing/pinching.

[nuliajuk]

I often think that SMP should give Steve Hogg a commission. Whenever someone asks about them on an internet thread, a link to his site is posted. Unfortunately, he doesn't cover all the models, as he himself admits. SMP's own site is baffling at best. Choosing a saddle by your waist size? What's up with that?

[zoom-zoom]

I often think that SMP should give Steve Hogg a commission. Whenever someone asks about them on an internet thread, a link to his site is posted. Unfortunately, he doesn't cover all the models, as he himself admits. SMP's own site is baffling at best. Choosing a saddle by your waist size? What's up with that?

Yeah. I spent a lot of time on his site and looking at his photos before I had an idea what it was that might work for me. Even trying to find one more suitable for CX racing (ie not as flared up at the back as my Drakon and Lite 209 to make for easier mounts/dismounts) had me doing reading on his site.

[kermit]

The whole waist size chart is scary, I do think that it makes sense though. I had measured 150 with the Specialized butt meter but the lite 209 maxes at 139. My hips and hip muscles are sore and I think it's because the narrower more angled seat gives me a better rotation and I have become faster and more efficient. I don't think any wider for me would work.

[TigerMom]

Oi, Selle SMP (or parent company)--you should give these ladies a commission. It's not in the cards right now, but I'm contemplating getting one for the road bike, probably the Lite 209. Things get a little unpleasant in the drops, and if I acquire a new roadie in the future, I can move it to that--the Jett doesn't seem like it'll agree with the more aggressive geometry I want. Too many models to make a choice. :/ I'm confused.

Zoom, you've used a Jett, but what version was it? It seems like the Jett I have on the road bike (picked up on clearance--it's got the gray sit spots) seems firmer than the current version. It's got some squish at the sit spots and a bit at the nose, but it's not as cushy as more recent ones. Something between the Ruby and the Jett in firmness would be good, but if it's about equivalent to the old Jett, we're good.

I *think* the Jett is okay on my CX bike. Still playing around with the position, but I haven't gotten enough miles in yet to say for sure.

(I should have picked one up when I still had my job...)

I hated the Jett saddle that came with my Specialized Amira. Not enough of a cutout. In fact, I placed it on my mountain bike (because the saddle that comes with the Santa Cruz Juliana was even worse)....thinking that I could live with it since I am more upright on my mountain bike than my road bike. Unfortunately, I just got an abrasion from that saddle. I'll probably be donating my Jett to Teamestrogen AFTER I get a new saddle for my birthday. I REALLY want to try a Selle SMP saddle, such as the SMP Chrono. But no LBS in my area with these demos in stock. So, I will stick with my Selle Italia Max SLR Gel flow which has worked great for me so far. I sure got lucky finding the right saddle on my second try.

[Owlie]

I hated the Jett saddle that came with my Specialized Amira. Not enough of a cutout. In fact, I placed it on my mountain bike (because the saddle that comes with the Santa Cruz Juliana was even worse)....thinking that I could live with it since I am more upright on my mountain bike than my road bike. Unfortunately, I just got an abrasion from that saddle. I'll probably be donating my Jett to Teamestrogen AFTER I get a new saddle for my birthday. I REALLY want to try a Selle SMP saddle, such as the SMP Chrono. But no LBS in my area with these demos in stock. So, I will stick with my Selle Italia Max SLR Gel flow which has worked great for me so far. I sure got lucky finding the right saddle on my second try.

I think they tweaked the Jett saddle a ton. The one on my roadie was on massive clearance and has to be from 2008 or something. I bought a Jett Expert a few months ago to have a backup saddle, and the newer Jetts seem to have a smaller, shallower depression/cutout that doesn't extend as far back, and more padding. (Even more so with the Jett on my CX bike, which was a take-off from someone on here.) I don't like with one on my cross bike anywhere near as much as I like the one on the road bike.

If you've got a Performance near you, they'll take a saddle back if it doesn't work out, but that still means plonking down the cash. (They don't carry them in the smaller stores, at least, though.) ;/

[kermit]

These demos came from sportfit Lab in Virginia. A two week trial for $25 and he has all the smp models.