Seacost Century=FAIL

[Crankin]

We didn't finish the ride.... not because of the terrible tragedy that happened at the beginning, though. The ride starts out with a loop to the south for 18 miles, and then you ride past the start and head north, along the water in NH. When we were about half a mile from completing the loop, we saw all of the riders stopped (maybe 200) and flashing lights. Apparently, a woman just veered over into the left lane of the bridge and hit 4 cyclists. Two or three died. We didn't know this at the time; we turned around before we saw anything (I knew better). I had a bad feeling about some of the riders and the ride in general. But, we took a very long detour around the Hampton River, onto busy roads, strip malls. Rt.1, which sucked. We finally turned onto Rt. 111, which took us back to Ocean Blvd., in Rye, NH. Beautiful views, and we were going fast. We went through Rye, and were in New Castle, just about into Portsmouth, when DH slowed because there was a turn with no street sign and riders were acting all confused. He was confirming with his GPS. I was sprinting about 20 to catch him when he slowed and I crashed into him. I'm fine, with just road rash on my elbow and a smallish bruise on the side of my leg. But, DH's bike needs the wheel trued. First, he thought the frame was bent and was quite upset, but we figured out it's the wheel. And, my bar tape is trashed. A really nice guy came out of his house and talked to us for most of the 30 minutes we waited for the sag guy. We were only about 10 miles from the start, so we were glad to get back. The sag guy told us what happened.
This ride can be done on either Sat. or Sunday. Last time we did it on Sunday, and the weather was iffy both days. Rain is forecast for tomorrow, so there were 1600 riders today. I just am not comfortable with that many people close to me, even though you can start at any time (no mass start). Because we started early, we were with mostly the racer types, and not people doing the 25, 50, or metric. I think if I ever do an organized century again, it will be one from my own club, where I know most of the people. I've never had so many people pass me. Once we found out what had happened, we didn't feel so badly. This ride has been going on for years and it's the first time there's been a death.
But, I did ride 44 miles, with an average just under 16, so that's not nothing for me.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/09/21/2-killed-3-injured-when-car-plows-into-cyclists-in-hampton-nh/

[OakLeaf]

Oh, man. That's awful.

Glad you and DH and your bikes are okay, anyway.

[Crankin]

Yeah, though when DH went to re-do my bar tape he realized my left shifter is trashed. It's an R700 short reach shifter that we had to order from the UK when we did the custom build. I don't know why you can't get these in the US very easily. Anyway, we found one on line, again from the UK, and it was very reasonably priced. DH is off to the LBS to have them look at his bike and fix the wheel, as he just does not want to mess with it, although he could.
I think I'm having a little acute stress disorder, here, but my elbow is nicely covered with a bandage and the application of the Bacitracin right away seemed to have helped. I do have 2 smaller bruises/swelling, one on my left thigh, on the side (nicely padded area!) and the other on the lower outside of my knee. They don't hurt and I have a good supply of Arnica. My left side is feeling stiff and I know it will be worse tomorrow.
But, it's nothing compared to what happened.

[Jolt]

Yikes! Just heard about the people who were killed. Glad you guys are OK, if a little banged up. I'm with you on not being comfortable with so many people so close--that's just a recipe for a bad crash IMHO.

[kajero]

you can read the entire article here:
http://news.yahoo.com/car-slams-cyclists-during-nh-ride-killing-2-195554508.html
I am sure I will have gazillion relatives call me and tell me it is time to quit riding.


I really like the comments:

It's hard to drive when your looking at your phone.

""The 20-year-old motorist involved in the crash ...""
Any bets that they were texting while driving? Any?

[ridebikeme]

Glad to hear that everyone here is Ok... that's tragic!! My thoughts and prayers are with the families...

[Eden]

Arrrrgh - yet again a car does the action, rather than a driver.... I wish reporters would start telling it like it really is.

[kajero]

I am glad you are okay except for being banged up and a few scratches. I also send my prayers to the families who lost a loved one. Thank G-d, there were not more. I am not sure not riding close in this ride would have made a difference.

I am with you also, I dislike riding close in the big rides. I love riding in the MS150. There over 3000 riders in that. I tend to stay all by myself whenever I can. Believe it or not, you can really do that! I didn't come in with the rest of my team, but I sure had a more comfortable ride. And I finished both 75 miles days with no sag wagon.

[Pax]

Wow, sorry to hear about your biff, glad you and DH are mostly okay!

And yet another senseless tragedy, those poor people.

[Catrin]

That was tragic Crankin, so glad you weren't there when it happened :( Very glad to hear you and DH are basically ok!

I've basically stopped riding in organized rides with large numbers of cyclists, I am just too used to riding by myself and I am always afraid that I will get into trouble because of that.

[thekarens]

How sad and tragic :(

Glad y'all made it home okay.

[murielalex]

How sad and tragic :(

Glad y'all made it home okay.

This.

[Owlie]

Holy cow.

I'm glad you and your DH are okay, maybe a little banged up.

[Wahine]

(((((Crankin))))))

What a horrible day. I hope things are better for you tomorrow. What a tragedy.

[Crankin]

I had kind of a fitful night's sleep, but mentally, I feel much better this morning. It's pouring out, and it will be nice to spend a lazy, rainy day at home. I probably will do some recovery yoga, to help move the stiffness along. It's amazing what Arnica does; my 2 bruises are already decreasing. The scrape on my elbow is a bit smaller, too, but I think that will take a little longer healing time. Apparently, all of the weight training I do and taking Prolia have increased my bone density quite a bit... I hit the ground hard and definitely am fine.
I didn't stay up for the 11 PM news, where one channel was saying they had new information about the driver. Waiting a bit to put the TV on now. I have some paperwork to do, so I can listen and not be totally absorbed by it.
Thank you for all of your kind words. My son and DIL are coming over later, so we will have a quiet, family day.
ETA: We are thinking of doing the ride on our own, in a couple of weeks. It's not out in the middle of nowhere, so no need for rest stops, etc. for food. And, if there's another mechanical, well, it's not that far from home that someone couldn't come get us. I really wanted to do another century before my 60th birthday and I only have a few weeks. This is the flattest one around!

[emily_in_nc]

How awful!

Glad you are basically okay, crankin. Continue to heal up!

[Blueberry]

What an awful day! Like others have said, I hope you continue to recover well!

I am, however, wondering what in the world is going on with drivers. There have been so many hit and runs and other driver assaults on cyclists in my local area that it is becoming more than a little worrisome. As a society, we have to do something. I don't know what, but something.

[Fredwina]

That had to have been a horrible day. Hope you get better, and the families get some justice. It even made the Paper here in Albany(via AP) http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/2-bicyclists-die-in-accident-on-bridge-4832985.php

[Crankin]

It's all over the local news this morning, that one of the victim's husband is telling the reporters that the police are treating this as "a criminal investigation."
Gee, how surprising.

[OakLeaf]

The sad thing is that it really is surprising, or at least unusual.

[sgf726]

Not sure if she was texting or not, allow that is what is currently being rumored. To add on to it, the driver was stopped hours earlier in the same area for speeding and driving without a license:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/09/23/police-driver-in-fatal-nh-crash-had-no-license/

[eofelis]

I've been following this story as I'm from the Massachusetts North Shore area. I didn't know any of the riders, but they all lived close to Ipswich (where I am from).
What's with the police totally dropping the ball and not arresting this driver? Is she related to someone important?

We have had a sad week for bicyclists here. A cyclist who was touring through the area was hit and killed by a DUI driver who was on her way to a hearing for a previous DUI arrest. This was on a highway with a 10ft wide shoulder, rumble strips and over a mile of sight distance.
http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/articles/crash-driver-was-late-for-dui-hearing

My bf and his friend felt strongly about this and put a ghost bike at the site.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grand-Junction-Colorado-Road-Cycling-Routes/169979643016667
The cycling community here never met the rider but wanted to show that we acknowledged him. The FB page with the ghost bike posting has gotten a lot of response from people who are friends and family of the rider who was from NJ.

[SheFly]

Glad you are ok, Crankin. What a terrible day all around.

Eofilis - it appears that since the woman never had a license, she could not be arrested. If she had a suspended or revoked license and were caught driving/speeding, that would have led to an immediate arrest. I'm reading too many stories recently about cyclists being on the wrong side of a run in with a car, and no charges being laid. We have sarcastically joked at our house that if you wanted to have someone killed, you should just put them on a bike and run them down with a car - you'd get away with it.

I think there will end up being criminal charges in this instance (at least I hope so). How someone, licensed or not, drives OVER the yellow line INTO oncoming traffic mowing down 4 riders and killing 2 without charges is beyond me.

My heartfelt sympathies to those who knew any of the victims. This is just too sad.

SheFly

[ridebikeme]

I'm sure at this point that there are many stories floating around about this tragic story. Today I heard from a friend that the young lady driving had been stopped earlier in the day and was found that she didn't have a license, the police officer told her that she needed to call someone to come and get the car and for them to drive her home. I will admit that it is a rather odd thing to hear, but time will tell whether it's actually the truth or not.

I was thinking about this today at work, and thought about all of the stories that I hear from people who ride motorcycles... lots of the same stories that we all talk about way too often. Here's my idea, cyclists should join forces with the motorcycle community and collectively maybe we can force legislators and police officers to make arrests and persue charges when cases like this arise. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Crankin]

OK, she was arrested at around 5:30 PM.
She was drunk. And only 19 years old. Charged with 2 counts of manslaughter and 2 counts of aggravated assault.
The reason she was not arrested at the first stop is because in NH driving without a license is a violation, but not a criminal act.

[SheFly]

She wasn't drunk, or if she was, they aren't saying so - "Rockingham County Attorney Jim Reams declined to comment on where she was coming from, whether she had been texting at the time, or whether drugs or alcohol are considered to be factors in the crash." From the Seacoast Sentinel.

She has been arrested and charged with two counts of two counts of negligent homicide as well as two counts of second-degree assault.

Ridebikeme - what you heard is true - she had been stopped approx. 8 hour earlier for a speeding violation (59 mph in a 30 mph zone) in the same spot, and cited. She was not allowed, as an unlicensed driver, at that time to drive the vehicle and had to wait for a friend to drive the car. Driving without a license in NH is a violation, as Crankin says, but not criminal meaning she couldn't be arrested.

So sad all around. I've heard and read way too many stories in the past two days about cyclists being killed by inattentive drivers. Stay safe out there, my friends.

SheFly

[Crankin]

I wonder why I distinctly heard the reporter say "alchohol was involved." I think people are saying what they "think." There's been a lot of conjecture here, but I'm very glad the arrest was made.
The whole thing (my own stupid crash included) has just confirmed my growing dislike of large group events. I thought this would be OK because of the rolling start, but I don't need anything more to make me anxious when riding. Of course, the fatal incident could have happened with just one cyclist riding, and has nothing to do with my opinion here... it just makes me feel more cautious. Just about the only time I can take riding in a group is when I am leading/sweeping and I feel more in control.
I am going on a ride this afternoon, with one of my "slower" friends, so it's not like this is stopping me from getting out there. But, it's a good way for my first ride after the crash. And, Saturday, I am going on a group ride. One I led last year, but I am just going as a participant this year. The leader is someone I know and trust, as well as most of the riders... I will either stay in the front (most likely, given this group), or the back.

[ridebikeme]

Thanks for the update everyone! I still think that somehow we start some sort of action, cases like these are popping up all the time now... some are cyclists who somehow did something to initiate the accident, but others... well I don't need to say anything more. Anyone have any ideas?

[SheFly]

Thanks for the update everyone! I still think that somehow we start some sort of action, cases like these are popping up all the time now... some are cyclists who somehow did something to initiate the accident, but others... well I don't need to say anything more. Anyone have any ideas?

I'm thinking that it's time for the car/phone manufacturers to come up with a way to disable the phones while a vehicle is moving. Ten years ago (ok, maybe 15), NONE of us ever talked on the phone in our cars, and we managed just fine.

SheFly

[OakLeaf]

But phone use is a symptom, not a cause, of people not feeling they need to take any responsibility while they're behind the wheel. As I've said many times before, running has been a revelation to me, because I get to face traffic and watch what drivers do, and most of the 20% or so who target fixate on me are NOT on their phones.

As much as I was uncomfortable with MADD's tactics at the time, they were plainly effective in changing the culture around drunk driving. I think a similar effort is what's called for here. Court-packing, prosecutor-harassing, letter-writing, the whole business, and for victims of ALL negligent drivers, not just the ones who happened to be extra vulnerable before the driver hit them. And making vehicular homicide a strict liability offense just like every other traffic offense.

[thekarens]

I was listening to a podcast today and the guy from England was saying there that anything that distracts you from driving properly is illegal. To me that's a very sensible law. I don't think specifically targeting cell phones is helpful. A law like that where if whatever is causing you to drive erratically then you have no business doing whatever it is.

[Pax]

I read somewhere that there are four times as many cars on the road today as when I started driving in the 70's. We had a lot less distractions back then... maybe the answer is to get rid of all of them; no cell phones, stereos, video screens, nothing. Just drive the vehicle and pay attention, if you need directions, pull over and check a map or GPS, need entertainment, pull over and read or listen to music.

[ridebikeme]

I agree with both of you, somehow with the technology that we have it seems that the GPS either in your vehicle or phone should be able to shut itself off once inside the vehicle... perhaps with some sort of emergency button. BUT, although I certainly don't want to be pessimistic, I'm not sure that is going to happen.(although I certainly hope that I am wrong!)

I've been thinking about this whole situation for a very long time, and although someone else may have a better/more effective idea... I think cyclists somehow have to band with a larger group to have our concerns actually heard... that is the reason for my idea of banding with the motorcycle industry. I'd definitely be interested in other peoples ideas, as we all know something definitely needs to happen QUICKLY!

[GLC1968]

I don't think legislation is the answer. Here in Oregon, it is illegal to operate your car and your mobile device at the same time, and yet I see people doing it ALL THE TIME. Hell, I even had one women try to capture video of me on her phone while I was riding as she was driving (through the passenger window as she pulled up beside me!!). She was yelling something at me about there being no shoulder or something and my thought was that she was hoping to go to the police and have me arrested (ignorant of both the phone/car law and the cycling laws...obviously). In the 5 years we owned the farm, there were 4 major accidents (some with bad injuries) at our intersection due to texting or phone calls....and that was out in the country!

Anyway, the phone companies are not oblivious to this. Have you seen the documentary out about texting and driving? It's not cycling specific, but it's interesting because it was initiated/sponsored by AT&T:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/09/werner_herzog_texting_while_driving_documentary_from_one_second_to_the_next.html

[OakLeaf]

Legislation alone isn't the answer, but making vehicular homicide a strict liability offense would go a long way toward removing prosecutorial discretion from the equation.

I still say it's cultural and the devices themselves aren't at fault. Look at how they build cars nowadays. It takes four steps to get frickin' outside air into my car, poking at indistinguishable buttons and touch screens that, unlike old-fashioned knobs, cannot be identified without looking at them. Mostly I ask my passenger to do it, or if I'm alone, I just settle for heat/AC, which at least is only two steps with those same buttons and screens, and suffer through the dead air. I've ranted before about how it's impossible to take a wide focus between the side-curtain airbags and the aerodynamic windshield, and I have to stick my head out the window if I want to see where I'm going on a left-hand curve.

I mean, if someone thinks they are supposed to be doing something vaguely important behind the wheel, they wouldn't be picking up the phone in the first place.

[Crankin]

Yeah, most people ignore the legislation. Especially teens.
I have Bluetooth and I do occasionally take calls related to work in the car. I never initiate a call, though. I don't like it. Last week, my son called me from California while I was driving to my office, 26 miles. I talked to him almost the whole way, praying I could multi-task.
However, I do use my GPS, when I am going to a new client's house. I mean, if the GPS turned off when the car was moving, how could I follow the directions? It's a lot better than trying to read the MapQuest print out.

[OakLeaf]

... you could program the GPS while the car is stopped? My in-car nav system turns off when the car is in motion, unless I've already programmed in the destination. Or if I'm using my phone for nav, I program it before I pull out of the parking spot, and stick it in the cupholder where I can hear it.

It drives me crazy when DH sticks his standalone GPS in the windshield he's supposed to be looking out of, and then proceeds to poke at it the whole trip while ranting about people talking on their phones ...

[kajero]

I keep my cell phone in the back seat when I drive. I can't reach it and have an excuse for not answering any calls.
I get frustrated as well when my SO pokes at the GPS all the time while driving. I tell him it is dangerous. He says it is the same as if he looked at the radio to change channels. Well, that is distracting, too! He says it is the same as looking at the speedometer or other buttons. NOT!!!!

I guess I feel so strongly about cell phone usage in the anything that moves because 15 or 16 years ago, I was talking on the cell phone and had an accident. Fortunately no one was hurt, but since then the cell phone is NOT used any time I am in the car. Even if I am a passenger, I tend to talk to the driver rather than talk on the cell phone. I think me talking on the cell phone can be just as distracting. It just takes one minute of inattentiveness and things can go bad. I know.

[Crankin]

No.... I thought you meant having the GPS on/programmed and following the directions while driving. I always pre-program it. I have a stand alone one, like your DH. You could program it while driving, unlike the built in one DH has, but I would never do that.
I didn't take phone calls when I didn't have Bluetooth and there were quite a few times I pulled over for work conversations. I do spend a good deal of my time driving from person to person, so when I started this job this happened more often. Now, people know when I'm usually available, at my desk, or working from home.
I'm not perfect.

[kajero]

I know it is just me . . . but I am also to afraid to use the Bluetooth stuff as well. I just am so afraid of a repeat scenario. People need to do what they feel comfortable with.

[shootingstar]

I keep my cell phone in the back seat when I drive. I can't reach it and have an excuse for not answering any calls.
I get frustrated as well when my SO pokes at the GPS all the time while driving. I tell him it is dangerous. He says it is the same as if he looked at the radio to change channels. Well, that is distracting, too! He says it is the same as looking at the speedometer or other buttons. NOT!!!!

I guess I feel so strongly about cell phone usage in the anything that moves because 15 or 16 years ago, I was talking on the cell phone and had an accident. Fortunately no one was hurt, but since then the cell phone is NOT used any time I am in the car. Even if I am a passenger, I tend to talk to the driver rather than talk on the cell phone. I think me talking on the cell phone can be just as distracting. It just takes one minute of inattentiveness and things can go bad. I know.

Kudos to you, kajero. I wish everyone was like you.
And such an easy solution: put your cellphone in the backseat so that one is not tempted to answer it while driving. If one is that curious, etc., then stop the car to answer.

The scary thought is:

ie. many seniors (and there will be some of us in decades to come in this forum) will believe they will still be competent car drivers in their 80's and 90's as they age. Plus use cellphone while driving. Just so scary to think of this. We will lack our alertness when we get older. It's reality we must face and change our habits...now.

There have been enough car accidents of elderly drivers jumping cars onto sidewalks, running down folks accidentally, and ramming into..buildings, etc. Several have happened in Canada within the last few months.

And this in addition to younger careless drivers.

[rebeccaC]

It's not that hard to turn my phone off when I get into my car. I don't need to ALWAYS be connected to technology or worried about missing a call/text that's usually not all that important 99.9% of the time or worth the distraction. I also always carry my phone when riding for safety reasons but with the ringer off.

hoping future rides are sooooooo much better crankin!!!!!

[eofelis]

A second arrest has been made. Drugs. (http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/driver-to-be-arraigned-in-hampton-crash-that-killed-cyclists/-/9848876/22110694/-/fv1p64/-/index.html)

[kajero]

It's not that hard to turn my phone off when I get into my car. I don't need to ALWAYS be connected to technology or worried about missing a call/text that's usually not all that important 99.9% of the time or worth the distraction. I also always carry my phone when riding for safety reasons but with the ringer off.

hoping future rides are sooooooo much better crankin!!!!!

If I turn the ringer off, I always forget to turn it back on and then forget to see if there were any calls. I can't miss that one important call (even if I DO have to wait to answer it). I am expecting my first and what I think will be my only grandchild (boy) the end of this year. :D

[kajero]

A second arrest has been made. Drugs. (http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/driver-to-be-arraigned-in-hampton-crash-that-killed-cyclists/-/9848876/22110694/-/fv1p64/-/index.html)

I am getting angrier and angrier that society allows people to destroy and ruin other peoples' lives so easily. I hope they get life sentences. :mad:

[Crankin]

I heard the news about the drugs right as I was falling asleep. Will listen more this morning.
It doesn't surprise me. That area is known for some skanky activity.
Sigh, the things I learn in my line of work.

[SheFly]

I am getting angrier and angrier that society allows people to destroy and ruin other peoples' lives so easily. I hope they get life sentences. :mad:

To me, this is a diversion of responsibility. While someone MAY have sold her the drugs, and MAY have let her use the car, the DRIVER is still the one who went out and killed those women - not the person selling the drugs. Part of the problem in today's society is that everything is always someone else's fault, and people expect that because of that, they will not be held responsible. Don't get me wrong, the drug issue is bad and criminal, but this woman needs to be responsible for the fact that without a license, SHE got into a car, drove it recklessly, and killed two people.

[rant over]
SheFly

[OakLeaf]

And it goes back to what I keep harping on about the mental element. I'm glad that this driver may get what she deserves. But it points out how near impossible it is to prosecute vehicular homicide as currently defined *without* drugs being involved. Even when the mens rea is merely negligence (which negligent homicide is still a misdemeanor), that concept returns back to a community standard of care, and when it's generally accepted that a driver doesn't really have to exercise any care at all behind the wheel, it means that all this carnage is "just accidents."

Speeding is a strict liability offense. Marked lanes and assured clear distance are strict liability offenses. But bingo, kill someone and all of a sudden they have to prove that you were driving much worse than the average person, AND that you knew it and drove anyway. Bah.

[velo]

I've been reading about this and just have to say that it make my heart ache for the cyclists and their families. So unnecessary and senseless. It makes me angry at the lawmakers, too.

[shootingstar]

If our North American laws could be closer to that of the Netherlands:

A car driver involved in injuring /killing a cyclist is deemed to be at fault first, unless the driver can prove otherwise.
I have no idea if their law allows laying charges of manslaughter (or whatever the appropriate legal term here would be).

I heard this twice:

May 2013, from a Dutch cycling education coordinator direct from the Netherlands as a speaker here in our city.
2nd time only 2 wks. ago from a Dutch-Canadian cyclist who works as a consultant and also works for the Dutch embassy in Ottawa.

[BikeDutchess]

Here is more information on the so-called "strict liability" laws in the Netherlands: http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/strict-liability-in-the-netherlands/
As I read the description, it appears to be more geared towards civil liability (financial damages) rather than criminal liability.

[buffybike]

I had kind of a fitful night's sleep, but mentally, I feel much better this morning. It's pouring out, and it will be nice to spend a lazy, rainy day at home. I probably will do some recovery yoga, to help move the stiffness along. It's amazing what Arnica does; my 2 bruises are already decreasing. The scrape on my elbow is a bit smaller, too, but I think that will take a little longer healing time. Apparently, all of the weight training I do and taking Prolia have increased my bone density quite a bit... I hit the ground hard and definitely am fine.
I didn't stay up for the 11 PM news, where one channel was saying they had new information about the driver. Waiting a bit to put the TV on now. I have some paperwork to do, so I can listen and not be totally absorbed by it.
Thank you for all of your kind words. My son and DIL are coming over later, so we will have a quiet, family day.
ETA: We are thinking of doing the ride on our own, in a couple of weeks. It's not out in the middle of nowhere, so no need for rest stops, etc. for food. And, if there's another mechanical, well, it's not that far from home that someone couldn't come get us. I really wanted to do another century before my 60th birthday and I only have a few weeks. This is the flattest one around!

Sounds to me like you're taking good care of yourself. Glad you're back in the saddle too. I hope I'm doing centuries when I'm 59--you're an inspiration!!

[Crankin]

I'm fine.
Helped lead a 40 mile fast ride today.
I'm exhausted, but it's a good exhausted.