Ahhhhh to sleep...

[Catrin]

To sleep...perchance to dream :) That sounds SO good, but I am dealing with some pretty strong insomnia - waking up every hour on the hour although I am not all that tired during the day. I turn off all electronics long before bed, I do need to stop reading in bed though. My bedroom is as dark as dark can be, I even cover my alarm clock so the light can't be seen. I really think it is stress and related to things that I can do very little about.

I am considering trying melatonin - has anyone here had success with it? If I could just get some good sleep I think that would make it much easier to deal with my stress - between my mom's illness and preparing to move it is a bad combination. If I can't find some relief soon I will see my doctor - but I really don't want prescription sleeping pills and I think a lot of those are bad if you have asthma anyway.

[tulip]

Meditation and yoga work for me. It takes practice, though, and is not an instant skill. I wish you best. Insomnia can be debilitating.

[indysteel]

I sleep better after yoga, but I agree it's not an instant fix. Melatonin doesn't work for me, but I suspect I haven't tried a large enough dose. If you do try it, you might do a bit of research on dosage and timing. I have used Benadryl during some phases where I've had trouble staying asleep. It won't keep me from waking up, but it makes it easier to fall back asleep.

Longterm, you might look into meditation or more fully commit to a regular yoga practice. I know you've struggled with insomnia and excess stress in the past. It may benefit you to explore some new avenues for stress relief. I know exercise helps, but it sounds like it might not be enough.

[thekarens]

My partner uses it and swears by it. Doesn't do a thing for me.

[solobiker]

I have had bad insomnia for many years so I feel for you. The other night I did not get even 1 minute of sleep...ugh. I have tried melatonin without much luck. My Dr also had me try ambien which did not work either. I hope you find something that works. Good luck.

[PamNY]

I use melatonin occasionally and find it helpful. Yoga is helpful, but as others have pointed out, it's not a quick fix.

[Catrin]

My 20's were actually far more stressful than anything in my current life, and that includes my mother's final stage cancer. In THOSE years I took up writing to deal with the stress and it helped a great deal. I am considering using that approach again, but THIS time I will hook up with a real-life writer's group. I tend to isolate myself when under stress and I need to find a way to reap the benefits of writing without falling for the temptation to cut myself off from people. I do not write all of the time, but when I do I write fantasy/mystery/speculative fiction. Now, I am not saying that I am any good at it, but it is a good way to let go of things - and it works far better for me than traditional journaling.

I've been reading about different behavioral ways of addressing this type of insomnia, I think I will start going to bed later for now but still get up at the same time. Perhaps if I am more tired when I go to bed that I will have better luck at staying asleep. We will see. I am not aware of being very tired during the day, but I can tell I am not quite as "on my game" as I really should be. Stress + sleep deprivation will do that for a woman. In my early life I learned how to deal with massive levels of stress for long time periods - and I CAN do that - but it isn't good for a body. Or mind. Or anything else. I remember those days and have no desire to go back there again.

[Chile Pepper]

Benadryl is fantastic. I fall asleep easier, sleep better, get back to sleep easier if I wake up, and--best of all--have none of that drugged feeling the next day that I get from anything else I've tried. I take it two or three nights a week, and it has made a huge difference. I even sleep better on the nights I don't take it, as it seems to have broken the insomnia cycle.

[OakLeaf]

I use melatonin occasionally.

Are you getting enough natural light during the daytime, especially early morning? Dark at night is only half of the equation of getting your body to produce enough of its own melatonin. When I worked in an office without windows, full spectrum bulbs did wonders for my sleep quality.

FWIW, Benadryl gives me an awful hangover. I do use chlorpheniramine occasionally, mostly as a bedtime antihistamine, but it really knocks me out too and wears off in four to six hours.

I'll use herbal sleep aids now and then, also. Most of them are made with some combination of valerian, hops and scullcap. I don't get any side effects from any of those (though the smell of valerian is a little hard to take).

[Catrin]

I am leery of any antihistamine related product because of my asthma. I may have no problems with it most of the time, but I've been warned off of them by all of my docs.

Good point about AM daylight. I do have an office with a large window...that is west facing and there is a screen on the outside to help conserve energy. Perhaps I should make a point to at least stroll around the block for a morning or lunch break to get a little sun...

Oak, any recommendations on teas/mixtures you have found useful?

Crankin and Indy, I've been reading about the dosing for melatonin and have decided that I probably should consult with my dr. on the right dose. I am less open to experimentation than I may have once been.

[Crankin]

Several of my clients have had success with it. I do recommend that you have your doctor prescribe/suggest a dosage, even though you don't need a prescription. Don't take the advice of the health food store clerk. The psychiatrist I work with actually writes a presription for people. Some people need a lot more than others to work.
I use Benedryl if I am really having issues sleeping after a few nights, but it does give me a hangover. And I take children's liquid form, as one regular capsule might kill me, it makes me so groggy.

[OakLeaf]

Oak, any recommendations on teas/mixtures you have found useful?

What I use most often is Solaray brand "Sleep" blend. Hyland's Calms Forté got me through the bar exam, and that's the one DH uses most often these days.

Valerian is so unpleasant smelling that I shudder to think of drinking it in a tea. Chamomile and lavender are traditional soothing teas. Not quite as potent as some of the capsules, though.

[Catrin]

What I use most often is Solaray brand "Sleep" blend. Hyland's Calms Forté got me through the bar exam, and that's the one DH uses most often these days.

Valerian is so unpleasant smelling that I shudder to think of drinking it in a tea. Chamomile and lavender are traditional soothing teas. Not quite as potent as some of the capsules, though.

Thanks Oakleaf, I will see if I can find a local source, I think this is better than taking a hormone, I will see my dr if it doesn't help. Going to bed later last night appeared to have helped somewhat, I only woke 3 times :)

[marni]

my standard herbal remedy for sleep is warm milk with honey and sage. I take a couple of whole sage leaves and heat them with the milk,muddling them a bit and then adding honey to taste. Another good soporific is tomatoe soup with a lashing of cream- something about whatever it is that makes tomatoes healthy (vitamin C) and a touch of fat on the intestine seems to help me into a tupor.

[Catrin]

Marni - that sounds interesting, thanks!

[emily_in_nc]

I have been taking Melatonin for years. In addition to helping with sleep, some research has shown that it might be a cancer preventative. It helps me fall asleep but has a very short half-life so does not help me stay asleep. Additionally, I've read that it's important to turn the light off soon after taking it, so don't take it too long before you intend to go to bed.

When I had serious problems sleeping after the death of my father, I got an Rx for Lunesta and later Ambien. They worked wonders (out like a light!), but I got horrible rebound insomnia when I stopped them. Only lasted about a week, though.

Nowadays I do take one 25 mg. Benedryl (same thing as the Zzzzyquil now available) when I am having trouble sleeping -- mostly due to stress/anxiety -- it works better than melatonin but not as well as the prescription stuff. It used to give me a hangover until about noon the next day but doesn't seem to any more; perhaps I have built up a tolerance? I have mild asthma and have never been warned off it by my doctor, nor does it seem to make my asthma worse.

Good luck -- insomnia sucks!

[Catrin]

Emily - thanks for the tip that melatonin doesn't seem to help with staying asleep. THAT is my problem - I normally get to sleep pretty easily, it is the waking up ever 1 or 2 hours that is killing me. I DID just wake up twice last night though so perhaps forcing myself into deliberate sleep deprivation by going to bed later is helping with that, for now. Obviously that isn't a long-term solution and I suspect it will only work for so long anyway. I will check on the antihistimine, it is possible I am confusing that with something else.

[lph]

It sounds like you are waking up in the light-sleep phase of every sleep cycle. I've never had insomnia that bad, but when I'm stressed, whether it's positive or negative stress, I wake up very easily at the slightest sensory input. I keep my bedroom as dark as I can, but even then, sleeping with a soft sleeping mask and good ear plugs will help keep me "down" through those phases. They can make it slightly harder to fall asleep, but once I'm asleep they help keep me there.

(And of course, limiting coffee and tea. I try to stick to just one cup of coffee in the morning, and max 2 cups of tea, pref green or white, before 3 pm.)

[Catrin]

It sounds like you are waking up in the light-sleep phase of every sleep cycle. I've never had insomnia that bad, but when I'm stressed, whether it's positive or negative stress, I wake up very easily at the slightest sensory input. I keep my bedroom as dark as I can, but even then, sleeping with a soft sleeping mask and good ear plugs will help keep me "down" through those phases. They can make it slightly harder to fall asleep, but once I'm asleep they help keep me there.

(And of course, limiting coffee and tea. I try to stick to just one cup of coffee in the morning, and max 2 cups of tea, pref green or white, before 3 pm.)

That does make sense LPH, I do wake very easily at the best of times. I've cut back to no more than 2 cups of coffee before 11am, and if I have my beloved Dr Tim San (a 3-shot cappuccino with cacao and cream) I have it very early in the day and have no more coffee afterwards. I really do think it is my current stress levels more than anything. Of course now I am stressing about sleeping :(

With your ear plugs, can you still hear the alarm? My bedroom is DARK, I've black-out curtains and cover my alarm so there isn't any visible light from it. My upstairs neighbor is quiet, who knows what I am hearing that is just enough to wake me? If I can't get some relief soon I will discuss an Ambien prescription with my doctor, I've been told that it is designed to help us stay asleep. I am just concerned that a prescription solution might make me groggy in the morning and I've got to be hitting on all cylinders when I wake.

[OakLeaf]

I can hear my alarm with 32-dB earplugs. My alarm isn't super loud, either. If I'm in a REM phase it might not wake me right away, is all, but that doesn't happen unless I'm in an unaccustomed sleep pattern, and I will wake eventually.

Another thing you might think about is one of those alarm clocks that works by simulating sunrise, gradually turning on broad spectrum light bulbs. Speaking for myself, sunlight on waking is just as important to my sleep quality as dark while sleeping.


If you decide to try Ambien, be careful the first few times. The side effects are very common. I've had a few 2 a.m. "drunk" texts from a friend who was using it ... and had no memory of the bizarre texts he sent me ... and texting (while not driving :p) is one of the safer things I've heard of people doing on Ambien.


Really, I am thinking that if it's anxiety and/or depression at the root of your sleep issues, it might be best to address those directly ... even if only with meds at this point.

[lph]

I have no problem hearing the alarm. I can't even have an "alarm", as I hit the roof when it comes on... just have the radio on low. I do have a dh who will wake me if I should sleep heavily, but I can't remember him ever having to.

And absolutely - if you can address the underlying issues, do.
When I get panicky about not sleeping, it helps a bit to reflect that that it's just an emotional reaction, and it will pass. I can function fine physically on little sleep, it just doesn't feel like it.

[Catrin]

LPH - my "alarm" setting on my clock are actually windchimes :)

I do think the root of this is the stress of my mom, move, etc. I've learned ways over the years to address things when they get like this and I am taking those measures. It doesn't help to be on the OCD...errrr....FOCUSED...side of things in times like this. If I don't see things change pretty quickly then I know what I need to do. I DO have free counseling available to me, I just had such a mixed experience with the counselor the last time I went that route that I am resistant to the idea. Eventually I will need to go this route though, especially where my mom is concerned.

I have seen some changes since I started to adopting my old stress-relief methods so am hopeful Journaling isn't good for me (keeps me in my head), but writing fiction helps a lot - it just gets things out in a different way. Also making myself find ways to get out and about more that doesn't cost anything so I am around people.

The feedback on Ambien has me a bit concerned, I've a history of sleepwalking (well into my 20's that I am aware of), so I should probably avoid medication on which people have been known to do odd things in their sleep...I am going to try a homeopathic sleep aid to see if that will provide what I need (hopefully).

[indysteel]

Does white noise help you sleep? It's one of the things I've used for the past few years, and it does seem to help. We have a white noise machine, but I also have a free app on my iPhone (I like the "crickets" setting) that I like to use.

[GLC1968]

I'm going to throw out a little bit of whackiness.

How isolated are you from nature? I have been a terrible sleeper most of my life but two things have made a huge difference. One is diet, but I know you are spot on for that. The other is being in touch with the earth. In the summer, despite a lack of darkness in my northern location, I sleep MUCH better than in the winter. I attribute this to my ability to be outside while barefoot. If you can, walks at dawn and at dusk, barefoot, can really help sync your circadian rhythms to those of the earth. If your rhythms are cycling properly, sleep comes more naturally. Yes, it's a little hokey, but it's free, safe and easy enough to try.

Living in cities, surrounded by concrete, in high-rise buildings, always wearing shoes (and sometimes super high heeled ones!) only isolates us even more from nature. Breathing fresh air and exposure to sunlight (both known health promoters) are only part of the equation. Even astronauts are intentionally exposed to the same vibration frequencies as those of the earth to ward off sleep problems, irritability and other maladies.

I do agree that getting to the root cause of your stress/depression will have the biggest impact on your success, though.

[emily_in_nc]

If you decide to try Ambien, be careful the first few times. The side effects are very common. I've had a few 2 a.m. "drunk" texts from a friend who was using it ... and had no memory of the bizarre texts he sent me ... and texting (while not driving :p) is one of the safer things I've heard of people doing on Ambien.

Yes, they make it very clear in the literature NOT to attempt to stay awake or to take it when you need or plan to be awake. I believe that is what Tiger Woods had taken when he had that awful night. I always took it 15 minutes or so before I wanted to go to sleep, got into bed, read for a few minutes, then turned out the light maybe 10 minutes later. I normally didn't wake up once until maybe 4-5 am after going to bed at 11 pm, and then I would fall back off for a few more winks until I needed to get up for work around 6:15 am. I never did anything crazy on it nor made any attempt to stay awake on it (NEVER took it during the day or anything like that). There are some crazy stories, but for most people who take it right before bed and then actually GO to bed, turn out the lights, etc. it works as it should.

I have fast metabolism so meds tend to wear off quickly on me. I have read that Ambien tends to wear off quickly on folks with fast metabolism, and I never got a hangover fro it or any problems getting up and ready for work nor driving for work. There is a newer version called Ambien CR (continuous release) that is supposed to be more helpful for those with problems staying asleep, like Catrin. I wonder if that version might cause more morning problems, though. They do say in the literature for regular Ambien NOT to take it unless you have 7 hours available for sleep (I think it's 7). For me it seemed to last more like 6 hours.

[Catrin]

I really appreciate all of the helpful comments and I am going to try several of them. I think everything goes back to my mom's illness and the stress of not being able to see her AND having to move in 3 weeks. I do feel a bit better after making some changes that have happened in the past - and if my sleep doesn't improve soon I will need to do something else. This is situational, whatever else one might label it, and will eventually pass. I think getting the move behind me in 3 weeks will take care of a significant portion of it, and I've scheduled a trip home to see my mom a couple of days after the move. 2 weeks off work :)

I've a co-worker who is convinced I've sleep apnea and the only thing that will work is a c-pap machine. She has this problem and can't conceive of any other reason why we can't stay asleep - it reminds me of the old adage that when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail :)

[emily_in_nc]

I really appreciate all of the helpful comments and I am going to try several of them. I think everything goes back to my mom's illness and the stress of not being able to see her AND having to move in 3 weeks. I do feel a bit better after making some changes that have happened in the past - and if my sleep doesn't improve soon I will need to do something else. This is situational, whatever else one might label it, and will eventually pass. I think getting the move behind me in 3 weeks will take care of a significant portion of it, and I've scheduled a trip home to see my mom a couple of days after the move. 2 weeks off work :)

I've a co-worker who is convinced I've sleep apnea and the only thing that will work is a c-pap machine. She has this problem and can't conceive of any other reason why we can't stay asleep - it reminds me of the old adage that when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail :)

How very true, Catrin! I am quite sure sleep apnea was not my problem either. I was suffering from quite a bit of anxiety, and getting to sleep was my problem -- that was back in 2005/2006 after my dad's sudden death in a car accident.

Then later, I started going through perimenopause and had a lot more problems staying asleep, as you're experiencing now, so I re-started the Ambien for awhile, but I didn't think it smart to stay on it for too long, so I stopped that. I'm still having problems staying asleep as I go through menopause, and my PCP asked me if I wanted another Rx when I saw her in August. It took a lot of willpower to say no, but I knew how easy it would be to fall back into that routine of taking Ambien, which I didn't want to do. It isn't addictive, per se, but because of the rebound insomnia, it can become a crutch. I didn't like that. For short-term stressors, though, I don't have a moral issue with taking it, just didn't want to rely on it long-term.

Glad it appears that things will get a bit easier for you after your move, and that you'll be able to spend time with your mom soon thereafter as well. Hopefully that will help as much as anything with the sleep issues you're experiencing.

[Catrin]

I am going home Sunday to spend a couple of days. I need to see her before she gets sicker, then I will have an entire 2 weeks to pack my entire apt!

[Crankin]

Enjoy your time with your mom.

[emily_in_nc]

I hope things go well on your visit, Catrin, and that you can provide some comfort to your mom.

[Catrin]

Thanks everyone! I got little sleep last night, 10 hours in the office today, and I AM going to have some milk with 100% cacao (no sugar) before bed. I keep forgetting to pick up that homeopathic...so we will see.

[emily_in_nc]

Thanks everyone! I got little sleep last night, 10 hours in the office today, and I AM going to have some milk with 100% cacao (no sugar) before bed. I keep forgetting to pick up that homeopathic...so we will see.

Cacao has caffeine, doesn't it? Chocolate does anyway...not sure how much in the amount you would have had, but I wouldn't drink it before bedtime.

Hope you slept!

[OakLeaf]

Also theobromine, which is another stimulant ...

Anyway, hope you got some sleep. Try to take care of yourself when you go to visit your mom ... hope it goes well.

[Catrin]

Also theobromine, which is another stimulant ...

Anyway, hope you got some sleep. Try to take care of yourself when you go to visit your mom ... hope it goes well.

I actually slept better than I had in a very long time. Also slept well last night on the couch at my sister's house. Go figure, it isn't an easy visit at all but am sleeping fine so far!

[emily_in_nc]

Great news, Catrin! :)

[shootingstar]

Maybe it's being with your sister, Catrin.

Seriously.

[sookiesue]

Rescue Remedy (a Bach Flower Essence available at health food type stores and even on Amazon) works very well for me when my insomnia is stress-related, with zero hangover the next day. You can also use it during the day for acute times of stress. The drops do have some alcohol in them, though. The pastilles might be alcohol-free.

I've also had success with Valerian capsules (no way can I imagine drinking that stinky stuff in a tea!) and no hangover from those, either.

Good luck with everything, take good care of yourself.

S

[Catrin]

I am sleeping much better, only waking 1 or 2 times in the night. I will see what it is like when I return home and back to work. I also am moving in less than 2 weeks...will likely pick up one of the suggested homeopathics and keep it around for a time.

[Catrin]

I really appreciated the helpful comments here. My sleeping problem, after lasting for months, just seems to have left when my mom passed :confused: It is a little harder to get to sleep but now only my bladder wakes me. The stress of moving in 5 days hardly registers after all that but I am still numb I think.