Lotoja 2013

[ehirsch83]

Well I got in for the full 200 miles ::eek::

Would love any advice from anyone who has done it or any of you other super strong long distance riders out there!

It isn't until Sept 7th. Right now I am doing one 4-5 hour ride a week as my long ride and I am figuring out routes around me to mimic the elevation change of the course.

If anyone else is doing it-would love to meet at the race

[marni]

congrats on getting in.

Acouple of thoughts from a semi long distance rider (ie longest daysbetween 110-130 but not very often.) Build up you TITS time to at least 6-7 hours.
Train your body to go longer between stops.

Dont' take long pauses every time, Only if you need to pee or refill bottles or every second or third stop.

Pace yourself very firmly, don't let the excitement of the start of the doldrums of mid ride and late ride change your endurance pace.

Drink every 15 and eat every 30 minutes. You will need between 300 and 500 calories per hour to keep your reserves up.

If you feel yourself starting to bonk- get off of the bike, find some shade, lie down and restfor 5-10 minutes while driniking and having a snack.

If you can find a fast food place, a coke or icecream midafternoon tastes good and helps some, if not physically, at least mentally and emotionally.

I havevarious versions of 99 bottles of beer on the wal, indlucing one for hill and one for the flat, hot, humid Mississippi Delta, that help to keep me mentally focused and act as pacesetters. Find yourself something.

Ride with a group if and when you can but take your turn at the front as well as at the back.

I wish you lots of luck. Enjoy it, the sense of accomplishment that comes from having done something like this is amazing.

[ny biker]

Well, I have no personal experience with rides that long, but I do know someone who does very long rides in Ireland and other parts of Europe. I don't think the rides he does are races, but perhaps some of the advice on the group's website will be helpful:

http://www.audaxireland.org/the-saddlebag/

http://www.audaxireland.org/the-saddlebag/event-check-list/

http://www.audaxireland.org/the-saddlebag/preparing-for-an-event/

http://www.audaxireland.org/the-saddlebag/stepping-up-to-a-300k/

Good luck!! And don't forget to schedule some recovery weeks in your training plan to help keep yourself fresh and focused.

[Catrin]

Wow! No advice, the longest I've ridden is 70 miles and I finished THAT ride injured...but have fun training for this! I know we have women on TE who have ridden that far and further, I am sure they will chime in as they notice this thread. Kudos for taking on this kind of challenge!

[kacie tri-ing]

Awesome! Sounds like fun!

I do plenty of very long distance stuff :-)

Most of us would say that back to back riding is important. You don't really need to do a 150 mile ride in preparation for a 200 mile ride. I do think doing back to back 100's (sat/sun) work well in preparation.

Elevation change is a tough one--hill repeats, hard gear intervals on the trainer, drive somewhere to ride real hills one time.

Work on some of your deep-in nutrition. I like coffee/chocolate covered coffee beans, rice krispy treats, etc.

Feel free to ask anything else!

[TigerMom]

Kerplunk....that's me falling on the floor in awe! I was tired after a relatively flat century (2900 feet elevation)

We can't wait to hear about your ride!

[cycle3]

Hey! I got into LoToJa too! This is my first time doing a ride this long and I'm nervous, but every year I wish that I had done it so I finally took the dive. Good luck, and I'd love to hear what kind of training plan you have. My main concern is nutrition....

[smilingcat]

I'll check with my BIL. I think he did the race with his squad. I know he has completed a similar ride from somewhere near Logan Ut and finished at Jacksonhole Wyoming. So that will be a similar ride. I think he was a strong cat 2 rider at that time.

If nothing else, I'll get his ride report and will let you know. Yes do several 12-14 hour rides. And do maintain a 200mi/wk training. Minimum of 8 hour ride on each weekend. Have to get your body used to riding 80-100 mile ride every week!! I've completed several 100+ mile timed rides. At some point in your ride, you are going to feel like DNF'ing and can't ride anymore, so be prepared with the mental games. When that happens, you may not like it but drop your speed and recouperate physically and mentally. And conserve your energy on downhill and recover. Spin going downhill so your muscle doesn't cramp up. And do be careful on the winding road.

[kacie tri-ing]

I'll check with my BIL. I think he did the race with his squad. I know he has completed a similar ride from somewhere near Logan Ut and finished at Jacksonhole Wyoming. So that will be a similar ride. I think he was a strong cat 2 rider at that time.

If nothing else, I'll get his ride report and will let you know. Yes do several 12-14 hour rides. And do maintain a 200mi/wk training. Minimum of 8 hour ride on each weekend. Have to get your body used to riding 80-100 mile ride every week!! I've completed several 100+ mile timed rides. At some point in your ride, you are going to feel like DNF'ing and can't ride anymore, so be prepared with the mental games. When that happens, you may not like it but drop your speed and recouperate physically and mentally. And conserve your energy on downhill and recover. Spin going downhill so your muscle doesn't cramp up. And do be careful on the winding road.

I knew people would have different advice, which is good! You will need to figure out what works for you. How much training do you need to feel good about a century? What kind of speed are you aiming for? Will you have people to ride with, and thus to work with, or will you be nose to the wind on your own?

I personally can't imagine doing a 14 hour ride in preparation for a 200 mile ride (that's what this is, right?). I have a 12 hour ride this weekend, but I am training for 2-person RAAM, which is much much longer. You might do 1-8 hour ride, but you don't need too much. You do want to go into your ride healthy, and not nursing any injuries, so you should pay real attention to recovery along the way.

I think that back to back centuries is plenty.

I would also through in that training your back/neck by good strength training is very very helpful. That is what gets tired on me first--but you can work on that .

[Skippyak]

13 hours is a pretty decent lotoja time, right, so why would you not want some training rides of a similar length? I would love to do this ride but I always think this needs to be a group thing and I can never find anyone who will do it LOL. Blokes a plenty full of bravado but they don't get in, i hear that women apply and women get in, so I have procrastinated. I remember talking to a woman who was doing 150 a week training and I thought that was really light, I often do that and I am training for nothing. Maybe next year. Quite a few girls from the shop ride I do did it last year but they didn't finish as a group. Are you who are in, riding alone? Citizen cat? Do you find co riders between now and the ride?

[kacie tri-ing]

As with most ultra endurance events, you don't need to train for the amount of time you are going to do in your actual race, because the recovery time is similar to the recovery time of the actual event (which in turn gets in the way of your training). For example, most marathoners only do 20 mile runs in preparation for a 26.2 mile run. During your taper, your body makes the physiological adjustments to prepare you for the additional mileage. Lots of people over-train and end up sick, injured, or burned out before your actual event. Each time you dig deeper, you will require more recovery time. As your events get longer, the risks of "simulating" the race increase (tendinitis, adrenal fatigue, etc.). Not trying to sound like a know it all! Just trying to share my experiences--I have been pretty successful with the long stuff, and have also made some pretty HUGE mistakes myself--just trying to pass along the wisdom from those mistakes!:D:D

Pedal Wrench has ridden long, and so has Susan. There are quite a few others who have as well--keep reaching out to the others who have been there.

The ultramarathon cycling association has a LOT of great information and articles about training and racing beyond the century. http://www.ultracycling.com/sections/articles/ (http://www.ultracycling.com/sections/articles/)


Adventure Corps also has some great articles as well: http://www.adventurecorps.com/way/index.html#ttcycling

I am jealous! That ride looks great! :p

[kacie tri-ing]

Finding more things for you! I was thinking about it, and I never went over 8 hours training for the double ironman I did.

Here's Chris Kostman (Badwater/Furnace Creek owner's) article about Doubles: http://www.adventurecorps.com/way/dctrain.html

Here's some pretty straight forward advice from http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=89&cid=162

Lots of good info on Ultra Race News: http://www.ultraracenews.com/

And there is a pretty popular Facebook group called "Ultracycling." You can ask people there anything you want--they are super helpful too!

My Race Across America partner has a very interesting "concoction" for saddle sores--combo of bag balm, neosporin (and maybe a couple other things)

Ok--I'll keep thinking and send you anything helpful!

[ehirsch83]

Thanks Kacie!!

Huge help :) I will be digging into all this this weekend at some point when I am not busy

[smilingcat]

This is what my BIL had to say:


The route for Lotoja has changed significantly since I last rode it. There is significantly more climbing. There are 2 major climbs in the first 125 miles. I've ridden them both on separate occasions. Strawberry (the first climb is close to an hors categorie in the tour. Gains almost 3,000 ft in elevation with 2 steep sections I charted at 7.5% & about 3 miles long each. The second climb is Salt Creek pass that is pretty consistent at 5% with a steeper section close to 8% near the end. After that, the course descends to the valley and is only a gradual uphill to the finish. If it's a tail wind, awesome, if it's a headwind, it's crying time. She'll also be at elevation (+7,000 feet), so take this into consideration if she's coming from sea level.

When I raced it, it took me just over 8:30, when I rode it as a tour, it took about 9:30 in a strong group. I'd guess to have her plan on 9-10 hours from what people tell me.

The best advice I can give is to mentally keep yourself in the ride. Over 200 miles, most people have 2 or 3 emotional crises (I averaged about 4). Have her keep in mind that each feed zone is approximately 35 miles apart. Just focus on getting to the next feed zone and you can ride through the heart ache.

Tell her not to try and ride alone, stay in the bunches and bridge to the next group up when they're in sight. Find a group that suits her pace and stay with it as long as she can. The only time I would advise going solo and trying to break away is well into the Snake River Canyon. There's usually a tailwind in the afternoon and it's a mild gradient with enough turns, you can loose a pesky competitor. If she's racing for a place, tell her to hold wheels as long as she can from the beginning. The race goes in fits and starts and over 200 miles, the attacks don't last long. Just hold on & she'll get a chance to recover. It's a lot better to drop back if you can't keep the pace than trying to go solo to find a faster group.

A race this long requires a lot of planning in the support. One trick I learned was to determine in advance where in the feed zone (front or back) the support will meet her and to be there in EVERY feed zone - make sure the support is wearing identifiable clothing. This eliminates looking for them and she will get through the feed zone without incident.

Don't rely on hi-tech foods. Advise her to have real food in her bags. PBJ's ham & cheese sandwiches at least twice during the race. Also, have a packet or 2 of Enervitine's (high calorie liquid) handy in case she bonks. It will get her through to the next feed area. Musset bags are an advisable investment - also, those string backpacks that a lot of places give away work well.

One last trick, at feed zone 6, have a water bottle of chilled (but not too cold) Coke that's gone flat. Feels great on the tummy and the little caffeine & lots of sugar provide a much needed boost. And don't be shy with the Ibuprofen. Butt & shoulders get real sore after 6-7 hours in the saddle. Take lots. She'll metabolizing it pretty fast.

One last thing, tell her if she's getting really sore, to get off the bike for a few minutes and stretch. Also, tell her to stretch during group bathroom breaks - this really helps a lot. A 2 minute break can save close to an hour cumulatively in increased riding efficiency.

Tell her good luck.


Sound advice from one who has actually done the ride. I think he rode it three or four times.

[kacie tri-ing]

Awesome stuff! I also love flat coke deep in a ride. Yum--caffeine and sugar--perfect combo!

[ehirsch83]

Smiling-

Please tell your bil thank you:)

That was a huge help.
Luckily, I'm coming from altitude and have similar climbs I can do to get in shape. I am pretty sure, for me it will be keeping properly fueled and not bonking or giving in to the mental issue.
Hoping to get a good group to be riding with and yes, I am going for a podium spot-so all of this is a huge help in planning

[kacie tri-ing]

I rode 200 miles (sadly no peleton!) yesterday and thought of you!

Another tidbit is that I personally think the first 50 miles are the hardest. It can be so hard to wrap your mind around how FAR you have to ride. For me, that is much harder than pushing through the pain of the end. (Of course, that's probably why I like ultracycling!).

I guess what I am saying is that even if the first 50ish don't feel right, an ultra event can have many lives. Ultra runners like to say--If you are feeling bad, don't worry, that'll change. If your feeling good, that'll change too. Just ride out all of your feelings or sluggish legs. Good training and proper rest means that your legs will come around in time.

[BikeDutchess]

LOL, Muirenn! My sentiments exactly!

[Johnny Rad]

Congrats on getting in! You'll love the ride and better yet love finishing it! :)

I've ridden it 3x and am registered to make it a fourth this year - I took off two years between #3 and 4.

Smilingcat's BIL speaks the truth: there's a lot of wisdom in that post.

With respect to the current route, there's 3 primary climbs in the first ~100mi and after that you're "home free." The first is longer than it is steep; it's not bad at all outside of the length. The second is actually a relatively mild climb. The third - the queen, which riders are timed on - gets steeper the closer you get to the summit plus you've have ~100mi in your legs by then so it's a real doozy. The ride up the Snake River valley is beautiful, but the rollers can get tedious with all that mileage in your legs. [If you're somewhat local, I highly recommend you recon one or more of the climbs before race day.]

I'd add that if you can ride a century, you can ride the 206mi of LOTOJA. Focusing on getting through the first 100mi and keep setting ~35mi targets from feedzone to feedzone (half are manned by your sag team and the other half by volunteers). It's just mind over matter and battling through the waves of boredom. For my training, I increase mileage month over month and try to get at least one century per month with two in the final month leading up to game day. Use the centuries to ensure you know what to feed (and not feed!) your stomach. Like another poster wrote, from my experience there's no need to put in a ~200mi day during training.

Are you riding alone or part of a team? Make sure everyone understands each rider's personal goals long before race day. Even though you're planning to ride together, stuff happens ... you never know when it's going to be your day to shine, stink up the joint or get beset with mechanical issues. Will you stay together regardless of what happens or will you split-up?! It may not be fair for one person who is either having a bad day or didn't put in the requisite training to hold up the entire crew. Talk openly about scenarios beforehand.

Another thing to consider is weather. Most years it's beautiful - a little cool (almost cold) in the morning (arm / leg warmers and maybe a vest - no jacket) and pleasant throughout the day (short sleeves, no leg / arm warmers). The later you think you'll finish, the greater the chance you'll need those warmers and vest back on. Keep in mind they informally re-named the race one year to SNOWTOJA when loads of folks posted a DNF as a result of not being prepared. Bring everything you have and get your sag crew to keep it handy. A change of warm, dry clothes may keep you in the race. For that matter, I make a mini costume change mid-way through the ride (fresh gloves, headband and sunglasses to replace my gross sweaty and/or gu-stained ones). It's almost as refreshing as that flat bottle of Coke just before you head up the Snake River valley. Gives me something to look forward to!

If you don't have lodging already set-up in the small town of Logan, you're going to have to find it out-of-town. It'll make for an extra early morning, but lots of us end up having to do it. In Jackson Hole, try to get a room in Teton Village which is at the finish line for convenience sake. Unfortunately, the vast majority of hotels on both ends will absolutely gouge you for that night. This is the single part that I hate most about LOTOJA - not the mileage and not the tedious training, but the hotels that raise their rates to MAX just for that one night in the middle of their slow season...

You're going to do great! Ride strong.

[Skippyak]

Can you camp anywhere in Logan and JH for Lotoja? Are you allowed to swap bikes if you have mechanical problems and your SAG carries your spare? How complicated are the meetups with your sag teams? Is it feasible to change shorts a couple of times?

[Johnny Rad]

Yes, I'm sure camping is OK in both locations - check out options online.

For the most part, your sag will trace a different route to the finish line than you. Race organizers have done that on purpose - keeping autos from running over bikers. On the few parts of the race route shared with sag support, it's an amazing never ending stream of sag vehicles. In fact, you can be DC'd if your sag violates the route. Therefore, race organizers have numerous sag vehicles on the course. I used one for a fresh wheel when I went down in a chain reaction crash. I was lucky to have a sag directly behind me, but you may end up waiting for some time.

I haven't read the rules for quite some time, but if you're not truly competitive I'm sure just about anything goes at your sag supported feed zone stops, like replacement wheels, bikes, etc. It may not even be a violation. For what it's worth, the vast majority of riders - regardless of the class they register in - are on a "riding picnic" racing the clock and not for a podium position. IIRC, the winners finish in ~9.5hrs and are way, way out ahead of everyone else.

Changing shorts is technically possible in a yucky port-a-potty if you want to wait in line and even attempt such a thing in there. The feed zones are a mini mass of humanity: support crew looking for their riders and vice versa including the occasional slow speed crashes with riders pulling in and out without paying attention. In addition to food and water, your sag needs to bring fresh clothes, spare bike parts and a pump to each stop just in case.

Like an earlier post, have a simple plan with your sag for each of the team supported feed zones: same general locations, flags, signs, etc. However, keep in mind that your sag has to hustle from stop to stop so take it easy on them (and another reason that an extra slow rider can throw a serious monkey wrench in the system ... making your sag wait and wait for the slow rider such that they may not make it to the next feed zone in time for the faster riders in your group ... a real concern).

[Skippyak]

I reckon a small Winnebago as sag would be fantastic, is that even possible? I'm thinking driving sag looks harder than riding.

[Johnny Rad]

I've never done sag, but I certainly respect those that make the event possible. Listening to their stories over dinner after the race is an eye opener: racing from feedzone to zone, jockeying for prime parking spots at each feedzone (which are a short hike from the actual feedzone), duking out prime real estate in the actual feedzone, cheerleading for the riders, reminding the same riders to hit the road again already and then high-tailing it to the next feedzone ... always wary of each and every one of the riders they're supporting. Hats off to the sag crews!

[ehirsch83]

I'm excited :)

I have lodging set up in both spots- got a room in a b&b in Logan(it was last place left) and we rented a little 470sq ft condo for a couple nights in teton village (found it really cheap! probably b/c it is so small).

I'm not close enough to go recon the course, but I have figured that I have climbs near me that mimic the profile of the ones in the race, so I am going to be training on those. I know I can do a century, so that part doesn't scare me- i'm racing solo so I really just need to make sure I get a good starting position, a good front group to roll with and just get through it 35 miles at a time :)

[Skippyak]

How did your lotoja go?