Getting women to group rides

[velo]

This is a pretty broad question. What do you think appeals to women to get them to come to weekly group (not one-time organized) rides? I know that the answer is ALL over the place, and maybe there isn't a good answer, so perhaps this will be a very short thread. But, if you were wanting to get the women local to your area to join together for riding, what are some key issues that would need to be addressed? Looking to hear from all types of riders and experience as well as those who attend group rides, won't attend group rides (why?) and those who lead group rides. I have some thoughts in mind, but don't want to say anything until I get varied opinions. This would be weekly evening rides, btw. I know it's open-ended and I'm trying to keep it that way to generate spontaneous discussion.

[Grits]

For me, it is assurance that it will not be above my ability level. I don't want to be left behind or struggling to keep up, so make it very clear what the expectations are for pace and distance. For a weekly ride, some social aspect helps too, like meeting afterwards for some kind of food/drink. My group enjoys having a facebook group page to chat about rides.

[thekarens]

As a newbie it was finding a group that was a similar skill level. I hate being the one that holds back others.

[jyyanks]

Ditto what everyone said above.

For me, it's also a time commitment thing. It's hard for me to give up 3 hours of the day since I work full time and weekends are spent with family. I'd love if a group offered shorter rides for those that are time challenged so I can join more often.

[Penny4]

I agree with knowing there is a group at my level. There are few beginner/C level rides out there and I won't join a B ride knowing I will hold them back. (And I'm sure there are plenty of ladies looking for super fast paced rides.)
Provide clear definitions of each group's pace.
Time of day is also important to me, but you'll never be able to accommodate everyone. I can't ride until after work (5pm ish)
Short clinics associated with the group would also be nice (rules of the road/group rides, basic mechanics, nutrition, building speed, climbing hills, etc).

[luvmyguys]

For me, it is assurance that it will not be above my ability level. I don't want to be left behind or struggling to keep up, so make it very clear what the expectations are for pace and distance. For a weekly ride, some social aspect helps too, like meeting afterwards for some kind of food/drink. My group enjoys having a facebook group page to chat about rides.

This. There are plenty of "no drop" rides that are "no drop as long as you can keep up". And if you advertise a pace of 16-18 mph, for example, don't go zooming off at 20+.

There is a big box bike store around here that has a Sunday morning ride that is truly no-drop. There are a few people in the group that agree to hang back with the slowest person, no matter how slow they're going. I really respected that.

[azfiddle]

I'll be interested to follow this discussion. I joined a women's "team" last fall- not a race team. We are sponsored by several local businesses and last fall we received kits (we paid a portion of the cost) and had our entries paid for the big local event, El Tour de Tucson. But a lot of the gals who joined didn't stay committed after El Tour was over, and we have dropped from 25 down to 15 people (with a couple replacements). So even though we are specifically a group for women, we have had some growing pains in trying to structure the group. We tried to accommodate members by rotating the start locations and alternating Saturdays and Sundays, but it has mostly led to confusion and not to greater participation. On some rides the stronger riders took off and left others behind, which led to some hard feelings. We are currently planning team rides based around improving our skills and safe riding practices, and recommending that team members do their serious training on the other weekend day or during the week.

I feel we still need too develop cohesion as well as skills, and get familiar with each other as riders so that we can ride together safely. I find it frustrating when some of the group report don't show up for rides and later report doing non-team rides on facebook - so that commitment isn't really there yet. Eventually we want to help newer riders and do more community service, but we aren't stable enough for that yet.

So any ideas that help us reach out and keep our group going are of interest.

[Becky]

For me, one of the biggest barriers to group rides is people who are inconsiderate of others' time. It's very frustrating to hustle to get to a ride and be ready to roll at the prescribed time, only to have to wait for people who are running late. Late starts mean getting home to my family late, eating late, getting to bed late, etc. I do understand that things happen outside of our control (work, traffic, etc.), and it's happened to me on more than one occasion. However, having a ride leader who is willing to enforce, "if you're late, you're chasing!" is important to me. YMMV.

The pace issue is a common issue with groups of every ability and speed. It never hurts to contact the ride leader and ask if the published speed is "cruising speed" or if it's the rolling average speed. Around here, advertised speeds seem to be average speeds.

[Grits]

I find it frustrating when some of the group report don't show up for rides and later report doing non-team rides on facebook - so that commitment isn't really there yet. Eventually we want to help newer riders and do more community service, but we aren't stable enough for that yet.


Is it the faster riders that are dropping out or the slower ones - or a mix? If they are doing other rides it is probably because the rides are better suited to them for some reason: the location, distance, speed, or even the social/fun part of the ride.

There are two groups in my small town. One is more training oriented. The people in it tend to be getting ready for tri's and are very focused on speed. The other group is more recreational and does long rides, but almost always followed by gathering somewhere for food. The two groups really don't mix much. We have different goals.

It is natural to lose some of the initial people in the group as everyone finds out what they want out of a riding group and how yours fits their needs. It won't be the group for everyone, so don't take it personally. They might have friends in the other groups that they want to continue riding with sometimes and may not think that they need to make a commitment to riding with one particular group. Things will settle down, and as you get your ride schedule stabilized, more riders will give it a try.

[tealtreak]

I rearrange our lives to attend my 2X a month Luna Chix RLAG nights.....why?....there are always several pace/ability groups and instruction is constant. When I first started mountain biking I was frustrated by my lack of technical ability. I learn more on one RLAG than 30 hours solo.

The team has many of the components mentioned before: social beyond riding, clear pace groups and welcoming attitude. In addition they have the support of Luna Co plus the expertise for occasional clinics from Luna pros like Georgia Gould and Danelle Kaboush.

[SheFly]

Be consistent. Our women's ride runs every Tuesday evening from the second week in May to the last week in August, starting at 6 pm. We ride the SAME loop EVERY week (it's not marked, but we have maps and cue sheets available). It is NO DROP, with the exception of our fastest group. Miss the group going at the pace you want to go at because you are late? Chase, or ride with a slower group. See someone you don't know? Introduce yourself and get to know them.

We've been consistently running this ride for 5 years, and usually have between 20 and 40 women every week. You can read more here: http://nebc.us/rides/tuesday-night-womens-ride/

SheFly

[Crankin]

I have found one group that I like, but even now, they often split into 2 groups on rides and I don't quite fit into either. It's a social ride group of mostly older people who can ride during the week. There's always a lunch afterwards, which I haven't been to in 2 years. As I sit here now, I am getting ready to go on my first ride with them this year; last year I only did one. So, the main group ends up averaging about 13, although they will ride along at 15-20. I climb better than most of these people and this is where they slow up. I deal with it, but they also use a "human arrowing" system which means if you ride near the front you have to be willing to take a turn sitting at a corner to guide the group and wait until the sweep passes to leave your spot. Then, you have to sprint to get back into the group. I don't mind doing this around here, but if we are riding on the north shore or up in NH, I don't like being out there, trying to catch up when I don't really know where I am. As some of the older people have slowed or left the group, a group of semi tough but nice guys have split off and often do a longer version of the ride, at a pace of about an average of 15-16. I can do the pace, but not for 50 miles at this point in my life. They have encouraged me to ride with them, but I am afraid I'll hold them back. So, I end up frustrated, with the slower group.
Today I just hope I can do the 34 mile base ride. There is an option for 23 relaxed miles, but I think I might get annoyed.
The thing here, no one is dropped, this is not a typical group ride. Some of these people have been riding together for 20+ years. I found out about the group when one of the guys came on a ride I led, when DH was in the hospital and he was impressed (I was stronger then!).

[thekarens]

This. There are plenty of "no drop" rides that are "no drop as long as you can keep up". And if you advertise a pace of 16-18 mph, for example, don't go zooming off at 20+.

There is a big box bike store around here that has a Sunday morning ride that is truly no-drop. There are a few people in the group that agree to hang back with the slowest person, no matter how slow they're going. I really respected that.

You hit the nail on the head. I went on my first "no drop" ride that was supposed to be 12-14. Well, at the time I knew I could do 12.5, but that group zipped of at the 15-16 range. I didn't come back for a couple months when I knew for sure I could do 14. It was really discouraging.

[indysteel]

You hit the nail on the head. I went on my first "no drop" ride that was supposed to be 12-14. Well, at the time I knew I could do 12.5, but that group zipped of at the 15-16 range. I didn't come back for a couple months when I knew for sure I could do 14. It was really discouraging.

That raises an issue that I think happens a lot for group rides: The rider leader should make clear whether the posted speed for a group is the average or the "rolling" speed. That can make a big difference in someone's ability/expectation to keep up. If a group averages, say, 15 mph for a ride, then attendees will have to be able to maintain speeds higher than that to keep up.

[Skippyak]

I only do a shop led women's group ride and most of the time it is all good, there have been times when people tuned up with old MTBs or cruisers, so I think no drop needs to be be clarified if it really is for road bikers. I am at the older end and not the slowest. I don't want to be on a slow cruiser ride, I want to be pushed. I really appreciate the effort put in to organize these rides and many of the riders are real athletes that are always encouraging to the rest of us. I find it hard to read speed as a guide as it depends on how much climbing there is. I would love to have more options really, to join group rides.

[indysteel]

I've done a lot of mixed-gender training rides over the years and definitely have developed some likes/dislikes. I prefer groups that offer different subgroups to cater to faster/slower speeds and experience levels. I'd suggest having a no-drop policy, but I'd add that all of the group rides I've done have had marked routes, which is helpful for those (like me) who don't necessarily need a no-drop policy but do want to know how to get back to my car. If I were putting a ride together, I'd try to find a route with low traffic, decent road surfaces, good sight lines and no loose dogs.

Most of my frustration during training rides had to do with lax etiquette and safety issues. I think it would be helpful to offer some instruction on how to safely and politely ride in a group/paceline. I also think it's important to establish and enforce some safety rules and expectations, not just so that no one in the group gets hurt, but also to maintan a positive relationship with vehicular traffic. Some of our local training rides have really gotten crosswise with the community because they don't respect the rules of the road. I would repeatedly make it clear that stop signs will be respected and that the group will only ride two-abreast when conditions allow.

[Owlie]

No pacelines. I'm not there yet.

No-drop means no-drop, or at least clarity on the speed so that I can gauge whether I'd be the slowpoke or not.

Some kind of social aspect afterward (say, grabbing lunch, coffee or a beer) would be nice. Casual rides out for breakfast/lunch/dinner and then riding back are cool too. :)

Also, a mostly-low traffic route is a must for me, or at least an early start so that you can avoid most of the traffic. I don't go on the shop rides because the traffic is heavier than I'm comfortable with.

[Citycyclegal]

I was interested in reading this thread, since I have just purchased my first road bike, and would like to do group rides at some point. Although I have ridden a hybrid for many years, I realize that I will need to improve my road bike skills in order to join a group ride, and determine what sort of speed I would be comfortable with. What is the general protocol for joining a group for the first time..when I see a group zooming along, it seems very intimidating...so how does one "learn the ropes" when starting out? I generally ride solo, however I realize from touring, riding with others definitely pushes ones capabilities. I'd be interested in your initial group experience and how you got started. Thanks!

[Penny4]

I was interested in reading this thread, since I have just purchased my first road bike, and would like to do group rides at some point. Although I have ridden a hybrid for many years, I realize that I will need to improve my road bike skills in order to join a group ride, and determine what sort of speed I would be comfortable with. What is the general protocol for joining a group for the first time..when I see a group zooming along, it seems very intimidating...so how does one "learn the ropes" when starting out? I generally ride solo, however I realize from touring, riding with others definitely pushes ones capabilities. I'd be interested in your initial group experience and how you got started. Thanks!

If you can find a beginner or more intermediate ride that would be a good starting point. They may not do pace lines, which is better for your first time in a group. My first group ride was a beginner route, and they taught us how to call out everything ...when you slow down, when you see something in the road, car back (cars behind you), how to follow at a safe distance, how to stay to right of road how to merge with traffic to make left turns, etc. WHen you figure out your average speed then you can figure out which level group you want to ride with

[Dogmama]

Make sure that the routes are good. Know that people will want to ride two abreast, so there should be a good bike lane to accommodate that. I've opted out of many rides here because they go on roads that just aren't safe. For example, they might be narrow, heavily trafficked with high speed limits or rutted with pot holes. I figure that I'll be riding with people who may not understand how to point out obstacles and that could be disastrous.

Oh, and always start on time. It isn't fair to those who made the effort to get up, get their act together & get out.

I do like the idea of a monthly clinic for newbies. They need to know how to ride a paceline, single and double, how to effectively signal for trash, slowing and turning, etc.

[Crankin]

CityCycleGal, are you going to the "instructional" ride on the 27th? You will learn all the "protocol" for riding in a group there. I think there will be parking lot practice and then a 10 mile flat ride. The instructors for this are really good, so take advantage of it. You should be fine to do the "easier pace" group on the New Members Ride on May 11th after you take this class. Lamar (who spoke at the workshop) and my friend Janine, who has bee an AMC leader for 20 years lead this group. We won't look quite like the groups you see whizzing past!

[SheFly]

I was interested in reading this thread, since I have just purchased my first road bike, and would like to do group rides at some point. Although I have ridden a hybrid for many years, I realize that I will need to improve my road bike skills in order to join a group ride, and determine what sort of speed I would be comfortable with. What is the general protocol for joining a group for the first time..when I see a group zooming along, it seems very intimidating...so how does one "learn the ropes" when starting out? I generally ride solo, however I realize from touring, riding with others definitely pushes ones capabilities. I'd be interested in your initial group experience and how you got started. Thanks!


I see that you are in the Boston area. The ride I listed as a women's only in the area is PERFECT for you. Beginner level rides (and you can progress to faster groups through the season), and the focus is on good pace lining skills and riding with a group. It is really ideal for someone starting out - safe environment, passionate/experienced leaders and a group of women who all share their love of the bike. Check it out: http://nebc.us/rides/tuesday-night-womens-ride/ I think the ride starts the second Tuesday of May this year.

SheFly

[velo]

Excellent! Thank you so much for all of the feedback. Most of what has been said, mirrors what I expected. I used to lead rides, but as I've mentioned before, I took some time off of the bike to start a family. Back at it now, I feel, once again, a strong pull toward cycling advocacy for women. We are trying to get a repeating ride set up that has women-specific needs in mind, but that would, of course, welcome anyone. I've taken note of everyone's input:

- assurance that it will not be above riding ability (don't want to be left behind or struggling)
- clear expectations of pace and distance ("rolling" average or are posted speeds cruising/pacelining speeds)
- some social aspect to the ride
- groups of similar skill levels
- offer different distances
(question here - should shorter rides be slower and longer rides be faster or does that matter?)
... again, I have my own opinion of this, but would like to hear from others
- keep at the published pace
- develop skills together, instruction is important for newer riders
- start on time... if you're late, you have to sprint to catch-up... time is precious
- socialization again... gather together post-ride for libations and talking
- welcoming attitude to group
- be consistent - same loop every week, not necessarily marked but have cue sheets available
- have a sweep and use human arrowing for no-drop
- make the ride NO DROP!!
- address frustrations of being "between" groups (frustrated at slower group, faster group hammers too much)
- talk about hills on route and how it affects pace
- road ride = road bikes... no mt. bikes
- marked routes, no drop (mentioned above)
- low traffic and good road surfaces
- instruction on safe and polite group riding etiquette
- instruction about pacelines (this will hopefully, eventually, apply to us)
- make safety rules known and enforce them
- have some workshops with parking lot practice

I appreciate the input. Please add as you think of things. This has been very helpful.

[Crankin]

I'd like to reply to your "should short rides be slower and faster rides longer?" This is the only part of the group I ride with that I don't like. I almost always want to do the longer distances, but it's always the faster group that does them. I routinely ride those distances (40-60 miles), but I can't maintain the pace they do for that distance.
It's frustrating and why I mostly ride with DH or 1-2 friends.

[indysteel]

Velo, most of the evening training rides that I've done are 20-25 miles, with only one route offered (although there is often an unofficial shortcut). One of the nearby shop rides offer two ride lengths, but I think the slowest group does the shorter of the two routes early in the season and then progresses to the longer route--although I could be wrong about that.

Frankly, if I was in your position and trying to put a new ride together, I'd keep the logistics relatively simple and would likely just offer one route with 2-3 sub-groups to cater to different paces and abilities. I'd make it a length that was doable after work such that people could still get home at a reasonable hour, and I'd only offer a post-ride social option, say, once a month--again in an effort to keep logistics simple.

I'll share one other "like" of the rides I've done in the past. It's really helpful to have a bathroom or porta-potty that riders can use before/after the ride. One of the training rides I did met at school that had porta-potties near the school's ballfield. Another of the rides I did, did not offer similar facilities. Guess which one I preferred? ;)

[Becky]

I'd like to reply to your "should short rides be slower and faster rides longer?" This is the only part of the group I ride with that I don't like. I almost always want to do the longer distances, but it's always the faster group that does them. I routinely ride those distances (40-60 miles), but I can't maintain the pace they do for that distance.
It's frustrating and why I mostly ride with DH or 1-2 friends.

What Crankin said. For me, the shorter the ride, the faster I can go. I'd love to have some slower options when I want to crank out big distances, and some short fast rides when time is limited.

[Catrin]

What Crankin said. For me, the shorter the ride, the faster I can go. I'd love to have some slower options when I want to crank out big distances, and some short fast rides when time is limited.

I concur, for longer rides I've got to go slower - but then again my average speed really has never broken 13 consistently. I am just slow :) I agree with IndySteel that having access to some kind of bathroom facility would certainly be an attraction... Not too many groups, and know that some will stay with the slower/easier group for the season while others will want to rapidly progress to faster/longer groups. I've seen that dynamic in the last two years at the shop rides I attend occasionally. Sadly I get off work too late these days to make them :(

[7rider]

That raises an issue that I think happens a lot for group rides: The rider leader should make clear whether the posted speed for a group is the average or the "rolling" speed. That can make a big difference in someone's ability/expectation to keep up. If a group averages, say, 15 mph for a ride, then attendees will have to be able to maintain speeds higher than that to keep up.

Rolling vs. average speeds is a big part of it, I think.
I do group rides (well - have done, I'm woefully out of shape right now for rides with ANYone, never mind my usual group) where I will average 16 mph, but most of the time, we're cruising flats at 20 mph or more. I think pacing is a big reason women don't ride groups more. Where I am, there are plenty of women riders - and plenty of women racers. Personally, I'm usually stuck in "no man's" land - faster than the slow group, slower than the fast group. So I frequently ride "group rides" alone and just catch them at the rest stops or re-gatheriing spots or hope for red lights. Frankly, that gets a little old after a while.

[Citycyclegal]

Yes, I am going to the instructional ride, and would love to go to the ride on 5/11, but probably cannot, It is the weekend of the NH Wool Festival, and I had already made plans to take a visually impaired friend to it before I knew about the ride. I finally have some free time this week, the weather will be good, so I am headed to the Cape for a few days, and intend to get in some riding and experience with SRAM, etc. Will keep in touch.

[Citycyclegal]

Shefly, thanks for the info about rides, I will definitely look into it. I know the area there well, although I now live in the city. I have had to reinvent my life recently, and I really miss having people in my life that like to hike, ride, be outdoors etc. That looks like a great opportunity!

[Penny4]

Velo, that's a great summary!

I think the ride distances will just depend on what time you start. If you do a 6pm start, a beginner/C group probably won't be able to do more than 15-25 miles before dusk. But if you do a morning ride, they could certainly go farther. I think for true beginner group(<12mph) 10-15 miles is good. Most of the beginner groups i've ridden with do allow any kind of bike (mtg, hybrid, road) to encourage more folks to come out, but that would be at your discretion of course.

Oh one more thing, define your requirements. Helmets, WATER! (some beginners don't bring anything to drink), flat kit, ID, emergency info....

[lgibster]

I mostly ride by myself. I have switched to a Specialized Ruby Elite Compact Apex road bike from my Specialized Vita Elite. I am pondering more group rides but here are my concerns/wants for a group ride. I am a larger lady (5'7" and about 225) and don't climb hills well. I challenged myself last year to ride a local cancer charity ride of 32 miles. I made it and then rode the 25 mile leg of the Hotter 'n Hell in TX. I like longer rides and would like to challenge myself to ride a metric century this year. I would love to ride with a group but I am concerned I don't ride fast enough. I can average about 14 mph over 20-30 miles, but only on the flats and sometimes need more breaks than most people. I would prefer:

Longer rides for slower people. We can make the distance but can't hold an open road speed of 16-20 mph for 30 miles.
Group ride for people who want to train for a metric century as a challenge for themselves, but are not in great shape.
Rides that list the TYPE of terrain the group is riding. (Flat, gradual hills, steep hills, etc)
No drop rides that have multiple levels of riders. Some days I want the challenge of "keeping up" and other I just need to ride within my abilities.

The social aspect is key as well. Nice ladies that want to pull you along with them as you learn and improve vs. the see if you can keep up attitude.
I have experienced the "hey look at that fat chick on a bike" while riding our local trail system and I think most larger ladies are just afraid to put themselves out there. There is a big opportunity to bring every women into the world of cycling not just people who are already fit and I think a good group of women is the best way to say "if we can do it so can you".

PS. Last week I finally heard someone on the trail say "wow she was moving". HA

[Penny4]

Lgibster, I am very similar to you! I can keep up just fine on the flats (and I pass everyone on downhills :rolleyes: ), but as soon as we hit an uphill I fall behind. I am not scared of hills and will do whatever is on the route, I just fall behind. I have improved dramatically, but still waaaay behind on most group rides. Thankfully, I've found some groups that are more laid back and will wait for me. I can do the longer distances too but a 16mph avg is not in the picture yet. I also seem to need more breaks that most, so I am trying to improve my overall conditioning.

I do enjoy riding with the faster groups b/c i know it is the only way I will improve, but agree there are days that I just want to have a comfortable ride.

Good job on the HTH ride! I would not enjoy that heat at all.

[nuliajuk]

I tried riding with one local club and didn't completely agree with some of the things they do, such as always riding two abreast. I'm not really sure why they do that. It's not that I'm afraid of traffic - I commuted through downtown rush hour in a large city for years - but I just don't see the point in doing it where there isn't a wide shoulder.
The only other choice from a speed point of view would seem to be a touring club, but my husband rode with them just once and got left behind when he had to wait for some farm machinery to cross an intersection. They didn't stop, didn't even look back, and didn't tell him where they'd be when they reached the provincial park that was the destination. So he reached the park gate, turned around, and just went back again. They arrived as he was leaving and said they "just assumed" he'd turned around at the intersection where the harvester was crossing. So, not really a well organized club.
The other clubs are all racing clubs and full of much younger and faster people. Occasionally the two of us will reel in someone out on the highway and invite him or her to join us. We met a woman last summer like this. She'd never ridden in a paceline or group before, so it was a new experience for her, but she picked it up pretty quickly.
I don't know what the answer is. I don't mind riding with men as long as it isn't a huge struggle to keep up. Maybe the answer is to join the touring club and try to get them better organized so that people can come out to the rides and not worry about being left all by themselves out on the highway. Years ago I belonged to a large club in Calgary and we would never have "just assumed" that someone had turned around early. Anyone who wanted to leave early had to inform the ride leader so as not to keep the other waiting at the next stopping point.

[tealtreak]

The 2 abreast is actually illegal in some states if there are cars wanting to pass.......

[shootingstar]

It's been awhile since I've done a group ride....and makes me realize how independent I always have been as a cyclist.

I still don't know how to ride a paceline...after last 22 years of regular riding and having a cycling lifestyle. Weird, eh? Logging in several thousand km. each yr. At this stage so far, it would be nice to ride with others regularily but there is a part of me just wants to continue riding at my own pace, for however long I want to. To keep on being motivated to cycle and not constantly compare myself with others...which I tend to do that if I ride in a group.

I enjoy cycling with 1-2 other people.

I'm sure I sound like a real slacker, bike surfer. :rolleyes:

[antimony]

Personally, I'd be more comfortable and likely to go if the slower rides *were* drop rides, because I've been the person holding a group back and I won't do it again, so I basically don't do group rides. (I actually am in Boston, but I'd to leave work early AND sprint 15+ miles to get to the NEBC ones. And I'm not actually interested in racing, so I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be at them.)

People keep trying to convince me to go to other rides, where they're going 14+mph, which I just can't do over anything with hills, since a 14+mph rolling average translates into 16-18 on the flats. Which I can do for ten or twenty miles but after that I'm blitzed. (I can hold 14mph on the flats all day, but that translates into a 11.5-12mph rolling average. I was thrilled to clock 12.1 over ~80 miles this past weekend.) If they'd drop me, that'd be fine -- I have good navigation skills and don't mind riding solo, and I could hang on as long as I could and then just fall away, but it seems those rides only start showing up when you can go 20mph.