Do you have adult children? I need advice.

[Swan]

I am an adult "child" (22) that had to move back home for economic reasons. My mother still treats me like I'm a young child, and doesn't respect me at all.

Whenever I use the bathroom, my mom always always always barges in on me, everytime without fail. She'll pee while I'm in the shower and has the uncanny knack of entering right as I'm pulling off my undies, or will do her makeup while I'm going #2... and we have more than one bathroom. She insists on making me breakfast every morning and whines when I don't eat it, but she never consults me on whether or not I'm hungry or even if I like scrambled eggs or not (I don't). She won't allow that I have friends over at any time because she's ashamed of our house, but doesn't want me to go anywhere, either, even though it would have nothing to do with and no impact on her. I often feel like I have to sneak out to do anything. If I go to the doctor, she wants to go with me, drive me, sit in on the visit with me and do the talking for me. If I manage to make an appointment without her knowig about it, she insists I call her when I get there, when I'm led back to the room, and when I leave -- and then she wants a full report on what everyone said verbatim (and will often ask me again for the whole story several times). She did the same thing when I was working. I forgot my lunch one day, but it was no big deal because I was perfectly capable of buying my lunch when on break. She came all the way out to my work to bring me my lunch and interview my boss and coworkers on how I was doing. Needless to say, after that I lost my job (half because I was deemed an incapable adult that needed mothering, and half because my breasts were inappropriately large for the workplace).

Conclusion: My mother is trying to instill a sense of dependency or codependency in me.

At the same time, she doesn't respect that I may have other plans, wants, and needs. She'll often wake up one morning while I'm getting ready to go for a workout, friendly gathering, or errands and tell me that she wants me to do all these sudden and seemingly pointless projects with her. Or she'll insist I try out at her theater's rehearsals and go to church with her every Sunday. There is also the bathroom ordeal, and the fact that I not allowed to have locks in my bedroom and that she'll barge into my room without knocking and just stand in the doorway staring at me and talking about things I really don't care about. She gossips about my life on the phone to all of her friends despite me telling het that I don't like my business being broadcasted since I'm a private person -- and often the gets the facts very, very wrong. She'll often call me to come see her at the other end of the house to show me something unimportant on facebook (I try to be polite about my lack of interest), will forward me chain letters despite my insistence that she not do so, and, when my ex-sister shows up and bullies me, my mom will take her side OR sit back quietly but fuss at me when I stand up for myself. When I went to the doctor for my back pain and admitted that I was bipolar (they asked if I was on any medication, I said yes, they asked what for), the doctor asked my mother if I was goofy (he meant not right in the head) and she laughed along and said "Yes, she's very goofy all the time" because she didn't understand.

I have no idea what to do. I have tried talking to her. I have tried to get her to come to therapy with me for family counselling. I am trying to move out as quickly as possible. But I cannot get my mom to respect me, which in turn is causing me to rapidly lose all respect for her. From the point of view of a mother with adult children, please tell me how I can approach my mom about this in a way she will listen and adhere to. I understand that this is her house and therefore her rules must be followed (and trust me, they are -- I'm complaining now, but I've always been "the good child"), but I am an adult person and deserve some level of respect and independence as well.

But I feel like I need someone in my corner for this, because my mom either doesn't understand, or she'll cry and say that I'm giving her complexes about being a bad parent (even when I try to be gentle), or she brushes it off completely. I am trying to be patient wihout being too indulgent, but I'm at the point where I need help. Please help me.

[Crankin]

Swan, I have adult children and I'm a psychotherapist. I always treated my kids as adult-like as possible when they entered their mid to late teens. We had rules, but once they turned 18, even when they were at home, they came and went as they pleased, as long as I knew that they weren't coming home for dinner. My oldest son turned 18 at the beginning of his senior year in high school, so he did have a curfew, which was relaxed as the year went on. I also taught them how to take care of themselves, i.e. cook, clean, and do laundry so no woman would ever say,"What the hell did your mother do?" THey both married fairly young (25 and 28) and they are very good husbands. And both of them call us and ask for various types of advice.
Your mom has a serious problem that you may have no control over. It sounds like she is struggling with her own serious mental health issues. So yes, family therapy or her own therapy is what she needs, but you need to get out of there as soon as you can. It sounds like this is a lot more than being a helicopter parent. You need to establish strict boundaries with the privacy issues (the bathroom or bedroom). Let her scream or rant, but tell her nicely, firmly, and without a raised voice that you are a grown woman and won't tolerate it anymore. She probably will be enraged. Don't tell her anything about your life and try to find alternative living arrangements asap. What would she really do if you put a lock on your bedroom door? Rip it off? I would try and see. I suspect that some of your own problems may disappear or get a lot better once you are out of that house. Try to establish some strong social connections with people who are stable and can mentor you.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy that just because someone is your parent does not mean they automatically deserve your respect. I've seen too many people beaten down both emotionally and physically, abused or neglected by parents who were meeting their own needs. One of my daughter in laws has very, very dysfunctional parents. Her mom has 2 unaddressed major trauma issues and she was pretty much brought to believe that everyone is out to get you and that she is worth nothing. Thankfully, she had some other strong women in her life growing up and meeting my son, who is very laid back, yet stable also helped. She told me that when she was about your age, a psychologist told her to "run away" from her parents, which I essentially agree with. She keeps them on a very short leash now. She sees them, but on her own terms.
I can't give you any magic bullet advice, but you need to care about yourself at this point.

[OakLeaf]

half because my breasts were inappropriately large for the workplace

I have no advice on the question you asked, but that's sexual harrassment. Did you talk to a lawyer? How long ago did that happen? ((((((Swan))))))

[Swan]

I have no advice on the question you asked, but that's sexual harrassment. Did you talk to a lawyer? How long ago did that happen? ((((((Swan))))))

I know it is, but no, I didn't. I've been through so much SH that I've stopped caring by this point, to be honest, and I'm noy bothered when people chastise me for my apathy anymore, either. It just is what it is, and it's always been a part of my life, right or wrong. I was let go this Friday. The official reason was "multiple dress code violations" even though there were none, but Florida is an employ-at-will state so they didn't even have to list a reason.

[indysteel]

My best advice beyond continuing to work with a therapist and moving out, is to read The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner. As Crankin said, you need to draw and enforce strict boundaries with your mother. This book illustrates some strategies for how to do that and also helps anticipate the other person's reactions to that boundary setting. One typically doesn't learn how to do this overnight so work with your therapist on how to practice the strategies discussed in the book.

Good luck. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

[Biciclista]

I quit barging in on my children when they were 6 years old. If my husband was in the bathroom with the door shut, I would knock and ask to come in. I can't imagine doing that to anyone. I'd get out of there as fast as I could!

[lph]

Oh wow, Swan. To be honest I don't think you'll get very far with your mother. I think that's just too much to change when you have your own stuff to deal with and you also have to stay in the house on reasonably amicable terms.

Apart from moving out I can only second the idea that you enforce a couple of the things that trouble you the most, like putting a lock on your bedroom door and maybe on the one bathroom door, and letting the rest lie.

[Melalvai]

(((hugs)))

Whatever you do, it will be better if you ride your bike. :)
Seriously-- exercise helps us cope with all kinds of stuff. That is NOT to say that exercise will fix your situation. It won't. But it will help you deal with the emotions.

I've heard Florida is a terrible place to bike, so you'd best move to a different state! :D

We do not have any rules for our 17 yr old. She is an adult and capable of making her own rules and her own mistakes.

[shootingstar]

Swan I have a difficult mother and she is not perfect. But at least with 6 children, she did not barge into the bathroom (1 bathroom for 8 people) nor our bedrooms when she knew we may be changing our clothing, etc.

Crankin has given good advice. Harriet Lerner's book, DAnce of Anger is a good, useful book. She's written others too.

If you can, find a job ...and one day, you really really need to move out of home again. Otherwise it will be tough to find a way of breaking toxic relationship at home.

[Irulan]

Crankin's advice is the best ever. She just gave you about 3 months of therapy for free in that post. :D

[Triskeliongirl]

I have adult children and would never do the things your mother is doing. In fact I always respected their bedroom/bathroom privacy, even when they were still children. The only reason I would have ever violated that (which I never had to do), was if I was concerned they were somehow in danger. And yes, if they visit and go out, I like to know when they will join us for meals so I know how much food to prepare, and how late they plan to be out so I don't worry, but this is the same common courtesy I would give my spouse or anyone I share my household with.

If you have no where else to go, start by installing locks on the inside of the bedroom and bathroom doors, just easy hook and eye locks will get the job done, and work as hard as possible to get a job, any job, as long as it gets you some financial independence. I don't know anything about your background, but if its appropriate, what about a program like teach for america which will give you some income and training. Perhaps you could also consult with a social worker to find out what is available to you as a young adult in your community, whether its educational services, mental health services, training, etc.

[Crankin]

And, I would add that even if you don't have mental health coverage, or poor benefits in this area, you can try to find an agency that provides counseling/casework on a sliding scale like Catholic Charities or Jewish Family and Children's Service. You do not need to be of those religions to partake in their services.

[maillotpois]

I can't add to the excellent advice already given by the others, but I have to say - I have a 17 year old daughter and we give her WAY more freedom and privacy than you're getting. That's just not right at all.

[Irulan]

Crankin wrote
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy that just because someone is your parent does not mean they automatically deserve your respect.
This is so critical to a healthy adult life, but it can be really hard to get to this place. There's nothing wrong about detaching from a parent that is toxic.

[goldfinch]

I know it is, but no, I didn't. I've been through so much SH that I've stopped caring by this point, to be honest, and I'm noy bothered when people chastise me for my apathy anymore, either. It just is what it is, and it's always been a part of my life, right or wrong. I was let go this Friday. The official reason was "multiple dress code violations" even though there were none, but Florida is an employ-at-will state so they didn't even have to list a reason.

Some states that are at will states still have to provide the reason if you ask. I don't know if Florida is such a state.

If you believe their reasons were a pretext it might be worth a call to an employment lawyer.

[Swan]

Yep! Sorry for the lack of replies. I've been job hunting and catching up with some friends who popped in from out-of-country to visit.
The "no locks" law is my dad's, and he has some solid reasons for it, so I respect that. It's getting mom to quit barging in without breaking my dad's rule that's the issue. She's been a little better these past few days (whew... finally a relief), but I'm sure she'll be back at it again soon. Are there any tips on how I can go about talking to her in a way she'd listen to without twisting it in the interim between now and when I can move out, whenever that may be? I noted a few of your replies and agree with the "address the major issues and let the rest lie" bit.

[shootingstar]

If possible always find opportunity to talk about things that you know both of you share a positive interest. And to compliment her when it's deserving. Seek her advice in areas where clearly she has expertise/knowledge.

I don't know your mother so hard to suggest much here.

Just to give an example, my mother can be tough to deal with. (And it will get tougher when my father dies. His cancer is getting worse..)
She and her daughters sew, so it is one area she clearly taught us, has expertise, we asked for her help (especially when we botched some sewing projects) and we appreciate whatever she does in this area. She also cooks healthy for herself and family. It is also an area that she deserves our appreciation because she passed on lifelong knowledge/skills to us that we all have and continue to practice ---naturally.

My mother genuinely likes Mother's Day appreciation for her: she needs appreciation as a mother for her hard work for raising 6 children. I can't dispute this one, for sure! So she likes the card, etc.
I know this doesn't solve her other issues but for the time being, at least she needs to clearly understand you are not rejecting her completely, only certain facets of her behaviour to you are no longer acceptable as an adult.

[nuliajuk]

...The "no locks" law is my dad's, and he has some solid reasons for it, so I respect that. It's getting mom to quit barging in without breaking my dad's rule that's the issue...
You may have to break your dad's rule. If he complains, tell him he can switch back after you move out. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you can't tolerate this behaviour any longer, you might get him on your side or you might not. At least you'll have tried.
My mother also had no sense of boundaries. She'd come over to my first apartment without asking, wander into the bedroom and start rummaging through my closet, make snide remarks about my housekeeping (her house was a tip, but of course that was because "I have all these people to clean up after"). We've been estranged for decades (her idea) and I'm sadder about the fact that I don't really miss her than I am about the estrangement.

[MMEZ]

Perhaps instead of getting locks for the doors, you can get those little wedges that people use to keep doors open. Instead of keeping the door open, use the wedge on your side when you are inside. The door won't have a lock on it, but it will be very difficult to open from outside.

Sorry you are having to deal with this. Your mother sounds quite toxic. I disassociated from my parents about 6-8 months ago. Good luck and I hope things improve soon!