The weight loss 'wall' - keep banging my head :-/

[WindingRoad]

I have about 10-15 Lbs I'd like to drop and I have yet to be able to hit this weight. I'm getting frustrated. I gather I probably need to mix up my workouts more. I am adding some Jullian workouts in hope of gaining more muscle. My time is really limited so I am trying to do the 'extra' workouts at home so not to add an extra trip to the gym. I'm tracking calories. I eat 1800 per day. I have had a hard time setting an ideal weight for myself. I'm a pear shaped figure, I have ridiculously muscular legs from riding. That was the first place I bulked up when I started riding. That doesn't bother me I just wanna get more muscular elsewhere. I usually hit my calorie goal but sometimes I'm over. I'm also waaaay under some days too so i feel like im usually running a deficit. Generally I burn 1000 calories at spin because I spin for 90 minutes on average. Like I said I do extra long spins bc of time restraints. Any of you have any suggestion to get rid of the last 10 or so lbs?

[tulip]

I lost 10 lbs when I cut out sugar, bread, pasta, potatoes...but I ate plenty of great food! It's hard to break the sugar and bread habit, but it does work, and it feels great.

[OakLeaf]

Generally I burn 1000 calories at spin because I spin for 90 minutes on average.

That seems like a way high calorie burn estimate. How did you calculate it?

Also, are you sure your goal is realistic? What percentage body fat are you now, and what would you like to be? I honestly don't think most women can sustain anything below about 20% or so without long endurance workouts, which you say aren't in your time budget ... and really the only reason you'd need to be at a lower % would be if you are competing at something. Bodybuilders don't sustain their competition BF% year round, only during competition, so if you're thinking you want to look like that, that isn't necessarily healthy.

I think reducing grains is a really good idea for most people and it should help you with blood sugar control, which ought to help with weight control also, though I can't speak to that from personal experience since I was already sustaining an acceptable BF% for me before I started reducing grains.

[Crankin]

+1 to adding strength training/functional fitness. This helped me drop 5-6 pounds last winter. Right now, I've reached a plateau and I'm trying to switch a lot of things up with both eating and exercise. Reducing grains does work, especially at first.
There's no way I could spin or do the trainer for 90 minutes. Generally 45 minutes on the trainer and an hour spin is all I can take. If you have any snow around, what about sow shoeing, up some hills?
It's a fine line between fueling your efforts and not eating so much you can't lose. Although it's counter intuitive, sometimes, backing off of hard efforts while losing weight, helps. I've found my days of greatest loss comes during my rest days or days when I just walk or do an easy spin on the trainer.

[Becky]

My experience has been similar to Tulip's, since I ditched grains and most added sugar. I've lost about 7 lbs since this time last year but, more importantly, my body composition has changed. The number on the scale hasn't changed much in the past 3-4 months, but my clothes are all looser. I've definitely gotten leaner without doing too much calorie counting.

[Catrin]

Ditto - same experience with Becky and Tulip. It is important to note that the "reported" calories are often incorrect, I've read that they can be over or under by as much as 20%. I pay less attention to over-all calories than I once did (though I average between 1700-1850 or so) and more to protein/fat/carb macros - with the same caveat.

[WindingRoad]

I think my calorie count is correct because I'm usually under what the spin bike says. I have a polar which is pretty accurate, it's calibrated for my age and weight. It's a long hard workout no doubt. As far as food goes I can try cutting some carbs. I'm not racing but I would like to do some long, hilly rides this spring/summer if I can get myself back in any kind of shape for it.

[OakLeaf]

I still think the calorie burn estimate is suspicious. It depends on your condition, obviously, but for me, a calorie burn of nearly 700/hour is past my anaerobic threshold, i.e., I simply couldn't sustain it for an hour and a half. It's more like my 5K pace. Does your VO2 max - or at least your resting and MHR - go into your watch's calculations?

Outdoors, it's true, your weight will matter on hills and start/stops, and your surface area to the wind will matter all the time (which has as much to do with your riding position as with your size). On a spin bike your size and weight really don't matter to your calorie consumption.


And, most importantly, this sentence "I have had a hard time setting an ideal weight for myself." is the place to start. Get your body composition tested, and set your goal in terms of BF%, not in terms of total body weight.

[Becky]

Get your body composition tested, and set your goal in terms of BF%, not in terms of total body weight.

Winding Road, if you find a place to have such testing done, could you please share it? I'm not far from you, and struggling to find a place that does hydrostatic testing. Thanks!

[Kathi]

I'm not the best person to discuss weight issues but I agree with the others. We ski 3-5 days a week and pack lunches. My breakfast includes yogurt sprinkled with cereal, not a whole serving and an energy bar. We pack lunches for the slopes but trying to find good food to pack in a small pack that my SO carries with him is not easy. He packs the lunches and often uses packaged meats, and soups, which means a lot of sodium. We include some small oranges and share an apple but I also drink a packaged chai tea drink. When we get home I enjoy a small glass of brandy but then I munch on chips or cheese and crackers. Then we eat dinner which usually includes a half a glass of wine. At this altitude I can't drink alot. I drink a lot of water but still felt thirsty, (dry air and high altitudes).

I didn't think the sugar and salt I was consuming meant much as I'm very small but I am gaining a pooch, common for a woman my age. After my rant last week about my friends on weight watchers I took a look at my own diet. I had already gotten rid of the processed meats, peanut butter sandwiches instead. This week I made my own energy brick, which is filling enough that I don't eat a lot of it and can grab it for a quick snack when I need a pick me up. This morning for breakfast I added a hardboiled egg along with my cup of yogurt sprinkled with cereal. At lunch yesterday and today I substituted herbal chai tea for the sugary, processed stuff and included a couple of dried apricots along with my pnut butter sandwich and half an apple.
I can't believe the difference in how I feel. I didn't feel bloated when I went to bed last night. This morning I woke feeling energetic, even though I skied pretty hard yesterday, and got to the slopes an hour earlier than normal. We've gotten lots of snow this week and spent the morning skiing powder and bumps. I was starving when I got to lunch and did ski more relaxed this afternoon but I'm still not hungry and passed on the nacho chips, instead drinking a cup of mint tea. I don't feel as thirsty but that could be due to the high humidity (snow) right now.

I do still eat some bread and pasta, we had it for dinner last night. I also don't drink pop (sodas), eat fast food etc. lots of desserts or candy. Keep in mind that I'm not on a diet, or ever will follow any particular diet, but I find it interesting that making a few small changes in my diet has made a huge difference in my energy level. It's too soon to tell if the pooch will go away but the bloaty feeling is diminishing.

In addition, at 5'2 and 105 lbs an 1800 calorie is approriate for someone my size when exercising, a little less when not exercising, so maybe you're not eating enough.

[WindingRoad]

Kathi that's interesting. I have been trying to figure out ways to tweek my diet differently. Maybe i need to get rid of all sweets for a bit. I love chocolate which is a very hard habit to break. My weeks are absolutely insane right now and I'm not getting time to snack like I need to. This is VERY hard. I get so hungry I want to eat like a freak when I get home.

Oak I am estimating this but my VO2 is about 45. I can easily hold a HR of 175 for a long time and not be maxed out. I don't redline till 180+. I have done some racing in the past but I do a lot of long distance rides when I can. Not to mention I was a wind player for several years.

[Kathi]

Kathi that's interesting. I have been trying to figure out ways to tweek my diet differently. Maybe i need to get rid of all sweets for a bit. I love chocolate which is a very hard habit to break. My weeks are absolutely insane right now and I'm not getting time to snack like I need to. This is VERY hard. I get so hungry I want to eat like a freak when I get home.

Oak I am estimating this but my VO2 is about 45. I can easily hold a HR of 175 for a long time and not be maxed out. I don't redline till 180+. I have done some racing in the past but I do a lot of long distance rides when I can. Not to mention I was a wind player for several years.

I did some searching on Paleo diets. Mainly because I didn't know what it was. I found lots of recipes and was surprised at the number of sweets that included chocolate. The difference was homemade not processed. Some of the recipes recommended leaving out the sugar ingredients if one is dieting. The sugars aren't the normal sugar you'd think, I couldn't find brown rice syrup in the grocery store for my trail mix. The paleo diet is heavily meat based, which I don't care for but many of the meat recipes look very good and we may try them.

I've always had problems with being hungry and finding foods that keep me satisfied is hard. It's just too easy to fall into the "mindless" eating habit. Even my cat is on a grain free diet!

[thekarens]

Take this as anecdotal, but last year when I was dedicated to counting every calorie and working out 7 days a week I was losing about 1lb a week. When my birthday week came around I took that week off from work and I didn't exercise at all and I ate what I wanted, but in small portions. I lost 3 lbs that week. I think some times your body needs a break in routine and maybe just a break in general. Of course, it might have been a fluke too, but the following week when I got back on the stick I fell back into the 1 lb a week routine.

[WindingRoad]

I have decided that maybe a personal trainer is in order here. I really don't have the time or the brain power to go through the process of finding a way to get my body responding again. I need to find ways to max out my workouts in a short time frame. Since I am naturally inclined toward distance riding, I don't think this will be easy for me. That's okay I'm up for a challenge. My knee has been giving me fits too which is another reason I would like to consult a trainer. That and I need a sustainable workout routine that works more efficiently. I found a private gym relatively close to me that has very good online reviews. Unfortunately they also don't mention how much they charge for personal training. I think the gym at my school also does personal training so maybe they would give me a better price? What do you girls think about personal training? How do I find a good one? What is a typical cost

[Veronica]

I've been working with my personal trainer for 4 years and for me it's been a perfect fit. To find a good one ask about what degrees and certifications they have. You can also ask for client testimonials. My trainer just opened her own place and her pricing depends on the number of sessions you buy, $40 - $55 per hour.

https://www.facebook.com/flexstudiotraining

This is a link to her facebook page. There's a video of my husband doing TRX push ups. He's been working with her once a week for two years. He's gone from flabby (his words) to super fit. His once a week session with her inspired him to find more time to work out on his own. He's got a three hour commute - round trip, and works an 8 hour day.

Veronica

[indysteel]

Dang, V. You and Thom give new meaning to the term "power couple." You both look fantastic. Thom's abs are, um, enviable. :D

[Irulan]

V's suggestion is great, but there can be other options. My DH and I work out at a gym that has very small classes that are teaching "functional fitness" along the lines of what V and Catrin do. We do a noon class 2x a week for $75 a month. Usually there are just 4 of us. If a couple people don't show, it IS personal training. As it is the classes are small enough that there is lot of personal attention. It is through a gym here that is also a sports and athlete training facility that is run by a group of PTs.

The suggestion about trainer certifications is also spot on. The gyms have "personal trainers" that have done a weekend course? Pfft. Sorry but I have no respect for that - I know more than a lot of them. The trainers that have degrees in nutrition, exercise physiology and national certifications will help you to improve fitness without injury; guide you in nutrition, and be able to help you with your personal challenges.

[tealtreak]

V's suggestion is great, but there can be other options. My DH and I work out at a gym that has very small classes that are teaching "functional fitness" along the lines of what V and Catrin do. We do a noon class 2x a week for $75 a month. Usually there are just 4 of us. If a couple people don't show, it IS personal training. As it is the classes are small enough that there is lot of personal attention. It is through a gym here that is also a sports and athlete training facility that is run by a group of PTs.

The suggestion about trainer certifications is also spot on. The gyms have "personal trainers" that have done a weekend course? Pfft. Sorry but I have no respect for that - I know more than a lot of them. The trainers that have degrees in nutrition, exercise physiology and national certifications will help you to improve fitness without injury; guide you in nutrition, and be able to help you with your personal challenges.


triple ditto on the check the qualifications of personal trainers! I love my Y but am continually horrified by some of the improper form and incorrect use of equipment done while someone is paying for personal training....yikes ):

[Catrin]

Everyone has good advice Winding Road. Right now I am doing a mix of group and personal training. My group training (functional/metabolic training) happens twice a week for one hour each session + a "funday workout" on Sunday that is open to all of his clients. That costs me $96 a month and would be worth it at 3 times that price - it isn't quite the same as a normal group class as he knows who is coming and he tailors the training for who is present. My club had an auction in December to fund a scholarship program they have and I landed 16 individual 30 minute private sessions with the same trainer for not much more than I pay for 1 month of group training that I do in addition to my group training.

Look around and see what is available in your area. Around here personal training seems to average about $35 for a 30-minute session up to $65 for a 60-minute session (discounts are generally available for packages). Of course degrees and experience is very important, but also see if you can find a personal recommendation regarding him or her.

[OakLeaf]

I'd rank ACE and AFAA certification on the same level as the weekend courses, unfortunately. Now, there are trainers with those certifications who are highly qualified, but make sure you check them out thoroughly if that's all they have. With your history of injury what I might do is ask at a couple of your local physical therapy clinics. A lot of PTs do personal training for not much more than you'd pay in a gym or studio setting, and one would hope it would be safer. If not a physical therapist or PTA, look for someone with ACSM certification.

[Irulan]

look for this
http://www.nsca-lift.org/certification/

[Catrin]

ACSM (can also be ACSM-HFS or ACSM-PT, or both) is certainly a good one to have, along with/or CSCS, NSCA-CPT (there are also other good ones for kettle-bell training and other specialties). I agree with the caution against ACE and AFAA certification, sadly) That isn't saying that someone that only has that is bad - by no means - but in this case I would certainly seek out recommendations from current or former clients.

[Irulan]

I'm just super mindful of these kinds of things. My 19 year old niece, who works at a chain gym, got her "personal trainer" cert in an 8 hour course. In some ways I think that kind of scary.

[ny biker]

I love my trainer to pieces, and he's as knowledgeable as they come. But the only thing that got me to lose those last ten pounds was to eat less. Instead of eating everything on my plate, I stopped as soon as I started to feel full. I wound up eating only half my lunch at lunchtime, and then eating the other half a few hours later when I normally had a snack. And I cut my dinner portions in half, too.

[tealtreak]

I love my trainer to pieces, and he's as knowledgeable as they come. But the only thing that got me to lose those last ten pounds was to eat less. Instead of eating everything on my plate, I stopped as soon as I started to feel full. I wound up eating only half my lunch at lunchtime, and then eating the other half a few hours later when I normally had a snack. And I cut my dinner portions in half, too.

This resonates with me- my weight has always depended more on my food than my exercise....I have often been at my heaviest when my speed was the greatest....and my lightest recouping from a catastrophic car wreck (lost muscle too- not something to emulate...)

[WindingRoad]

I am going to start upping my protein levels. After looking over my food for the last month I notice a definite trend of if I don't eat 25% protein I eat a lot more carbs and fat. It's been a real challenge lately to find food that is high in protein that I can pack and sneak in clinic. Shhhhh don't tell :-) All kidding aside that's kinda hard to do. I mean there's boiled eggs, nuts, peanut butter sandwiches, chobanis, jerky. I'm starting to run out of ideas. I need things I can just reach for cuz like I said we aren't supposed to have food in clinic.

I am going to sign up with one of the trainers at my school gym Monday. I'm not sure which one since I need to see what days can work. It's a gym for our school so I'm hoping they will be flexible. My schedule is different every week. I've also been doing some Jillian michaels DVDs at home to get myself started.

[Giulianna23]

I am strugglin with this as well. I have dropped around 35 pounds in the last year slowly not dieting but "trying" really trying to watch what I eat but that does not work all the time. I have gained about 8 from those 35 since I stopped commuting to work about 4 months ago. I didn't read everything that was said here but this may help. About 6 years ago I wasn't happy with my weight, and right after New years I decided to start going to the gym and start a diet. I went to the gym 7 days a week and I was strictly eating just white meats, chicken, turkey, seafood with salad, no soda nor juices just water and sometimes a flavored water o gatorade or something similar. For snacks I was eating fat free yogurt, oeatmeal or cereal with 1% milk, and energy bars. I was eating 5 times a day and counting calories (no more than 1300 a day). I was going to the gym and basically doing weights I just got on the cardio machines for warming up for about 12 -15 minutes and at least 1 hour weights+abs. I dropped 30 pounds in 2 months and by the third month I dropped about 35 then I got stuck on the forth month for about a month and a half and I was not cheating on my diet nor nothing...then the guy at the gym told me..u need to trick your body and metabolism, your body already used to you eating healthy and the same amount of calories all the time so it feels like you don't have nothing to burn. Pick one day a week and eat whatever you want and I mean whatever but just that one day. I was like..."are you serious"?...so I started doing that and I picked Saturdays...I had big breakfast.... about 2 fried eggs, toasted bread, some red meat , oatmeal and orange juice just to give you an example and for the rest of the day whatever I felt like but without abusing and f course I continued my workout routines but I dropped to 5-6 days instead of 7. All of the sudden I started losing weight again. And in the next 3-4months I dropped 30 more pounds until I got to my ideal weight. I went from almost size 18 to a size 10. You may need a cheating day. JMHO

[DebSP]

On a different thread some one suggested "It Starts With Food". It has a plan called "Whole30". I had read it a while ago but just wasn't ready to jump in. Pretty much goes against everything I had been doing. I just trained myself to eat 5 times a day. That's out. I eat low fat. That's out. I had just started to have a couple of vegetarian days a week. That's out. I have been between 149 and 155 lbs. for a couple of years now NO MATTER WHAT. I gave the Whole30 a chance. I am on day 16 and I know I am losing weight because my pants fit better. (I am not supposed to weigh myself). If nothing else, it sure makes me think about all the processed foods in my diet. I gave up dairy, sugar, legumes, grains, certain oils and avoid certain additives to food. (I didn't do it so much for weight loss at this time. I am not sleeping. I have low iron. I am tired all the time. The doctor wants me on cholesterol meds. Those are my reasons for starting it now.) Anyways, I know I won't stick to it strictly when my Whole30 is up, but I will certainly not go back to some of those foods. I am still craving sugar a bit, and I miss bread a lot! I am going to try to stick pretty close to the diet but I really want my morning coffee with cream! But I plan to go back to the doctor in 6 months and get my levels checked and see if I am improving which is incentive to carry on or stop because my levels are not better. My husband says I am definitely getting skinnier. I weighed 150 the morning I started and I have 14 days before I am supposed to step on the scale. It is a lot of extra work at the beginning. You basically can't eat anything unless you prepare it yourself. But it does get easier once you start freezing things to eat. Tulip do you ever eat sugar or bread?

[tulip]

Tulip do you ever eat sugar or bread?

I did a similar program, although I didn't know it had a name. No sugar and no bread/pasta and it made a huge difference. I see no problem with cream in my coffee--I did not give up dairy, although I drank less milk because I gave up cereal (grains) and hot chocolate (sugar). Fake sweetners were not in the program!

I did it really strictly for 30 days, and then eased up because I went on a multi-week bike tour and my choices were limited. Then I just got lazy--and gained back 5 of the 9 lbs I had lost. But I'm back on it now. Sugar is the hardest to give up, but the most effective. Bread and pasta and cereal are also hard but not as hard as sugar for me. Rice--that was hard to give up.

Fats are fine, but once you remove the sugar and the grains, you really eliminate a whole range of unnecessary and unhelpful foods. I ate as much fruit and vegetables as I wanted, and ate chicken and fish and occasionally beef. I eat kale like 3-4 times a week. Eggs are fine, so is cheese (but not the crackers or bread, so I didn't eat much cheese by itself). The hardest part for me are breakfasts; I often make a smoothie with yogurt, frozen fruit, yogurt and Spirutein powder (the only processed food that I allow).

[Crankin]

I'm getting pretty frustrated with trying the above type of eating and nothing is happening this time. Like Tulip, I haven't entirely given up dairy, but I never had a lot of it to begin with; an occasional piece of really good cheese or a sprinkle of cheddar on something. I drink almond milk and for the first time, I've found a "milk" beverage I like and my stomach can tolerate. I did a have a cheat day on Sunday, but other than that, I think I'll be able to handle 30 days of no grains or sugar, except for my nordic ski trip. Even going out for dinner isn't too bad, if I choose carefully.
So, why is my weight up 2+ lbs. every weekend and then by Friday it's down. The weight just fell off when I did this last winter.

[Catrin]

I am considering tightening things up for a couple weeks to reset - cut out all fruit and dairy. I think our bodies get accustomed to whatever our choice of diet is and we need to mix things up from time to time to get its attention. Though I must admit, a 128 pound plateau is MUCH better than the plateaus I've seen in the past ;)

[GLC1968]

As most of you know, I'm eating in the paleo bent and have been since August of 2011. I did a Whole30 last June while still with a boot on my broken foot (ie, no real exercise) and I lost 9 lbs in those 30 days and felt fan-freaking-tastic. I slept better, my skin improved, I had great energy, etc...even though I was already paleo (no grains, no legumes, no soy and only natural sugars and the occasional high quality dairy).

Whole30 is more than super strict paleo. It is ZERO sugar (I mean, you can't even have anything that has added sugar even though there are no sugar grams listed). It has zero preservatives. No grains, no corn, no soy, no seed oils. No making paleofied versions of things (like pancakes with almond flour), no smoothies for breakfast, no liquid juice, etc. It's about resetting your hormonal response to food and it truly works. Some people get there in 10 days, others in 16, others in 29 and still others need 45 or longer...it depends on your body. The best part about the Whole30 (and It Starts With Food which is the book about it and a great read!) is that it teaches you to figure all this out FOR YOUR OWN BODY. As we all know, everyone is different. The Whole30 teaches to how to remove all the noise and listen...and from that, you can learn volumes. Plus, feeling truly vibrant can be a life-changing experience. I thought I felt damn good before I did it...but it took me to a whole new level of awesome.

I'm on day 39 of my second official Whole30 (I'm going to day 44, having a birthday treat and then doing some travel before I start a Whole75 at the end of the month). I lost 8.5 lbs in the first 30 days. I weighed on day 31 and I'll weigh again on the morning of day 44. My goal is to learn to make this a true lifestyle. Until I did my first Whole30, I considered myself 'paleo with exceptions' because I thought being 100% would be too hard and unrealistic. Whole30 taught me that it's not too hard at all!

Anyway, while the Whole30 isn't about weight loss at all, that is often the result so for anyone looking to shake it up a bit, maybe it's worth a try?

[Catrin]

hmmmmm GLC, that is a mighty strong recommendation! I've been trying to figure out the difference between my existing diet and the Whole30 and this is quite interesting! I will check out the book - and I think that what is going on for me is that noise you mention.

[Crankin]

I have given up soy (tofu), sugar, corn, and grains. I plan to do this until we go away next Thursday and resume when we return on Sunday. It's actually not that hard, except for snacks.I do admit, that even after just the "modified" Paleo for most of the last year, I feel much better, in terms of things like upper respiratory stuff, colds, and my stomach issues are better. I am in the throes of a cold and it just isn't that bad. My DH was deathly ill last week, so if anything, my immune system (which sucks) may have improved.
Good thing I like to cook. I spent the morning searching for a pork shoulder and now I have assigned the task to DH as he is leaving work at 3 and I have to actually go and do some real work...

[tulip]

It is ZERO sugar (I mean, you can't even have anything that has added sugar even though there are no sugar grams listed).

This is key for me, and the hardest part for me. But on my 30 days (not the Whole30--just my own thing; I had never heard of Whole30 until this thread) I lost 9 lbs and felt really great--energy was up, mood was up, sleeping great, concentration was way better...

I did have smoothies for breakfast, however. It's about the only thing I can eat for breakfast. I don't know anything about the Whole30 program, but whatever I did worked for me, and that included smoothies (no sugar of course) and dairy (half-and-half in my coffee and yogurt, mostly).

I do think it's important to have ZERO sugar. I mean ZERO. Doing so resets the pancreas somehow, and once you get over the hump, it's pretty fantastic.

[Catrin]

I now have the Nook version of the book and am looking forward to reading it before I take this on. My diet has been pretty darn clean since July, so it will be interesting to see what my body thinks of things. I will probably start a Whole30 journal on MDA to help me keep track of things - and it is good to get input. For MDA members I am Catrin there as well.

Sleep and stress relief is also key and can certainly affect our weight and weight-loss activities in ways that aren't obvious.

[SadieKate]

I think my calorie count is correct because I'm usually under what the spin bike says. I have a polar which is pretty accurate, it's calibrated for my age and weight. It's a long hard workout no doubt. As far as food goes I can try cutting some carbs. I'm not racing but I would like to do some long, hilly rides this spring/summer if I can get myself back in any kind of shape for it. Are you using a heart rate monitor? The algo's in watches are notoriously inaccurate unless you're using a HRM. I know multiple people who can attest to this personally. Ain't even close.

[SadieKate]

Generally I burn 1000 calories at spin because I spin for 90 minutes on average. Like I said I do extra long spins bc of time restraints. Any of you have any suggestion to get rid of the last 10 or so lbs?

I asked a friend who has a masters in exercise physiology and was doing research for NASA at the time about the claims of a local spin studio owner. My friend is also a cycling coach. I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't think him a credible source. Here's his answer:


I'm always a bit amazed by claims like this. I'll start by saying that it is POSSIBLE to burn 800 calories per hour while cycling. However, it is unlikely that a person without a high level of cardiovascular fitness can achieve an energy expenditure in that range, Here's how the math breaks down:

In order to burn 800 calories in an hour, a person needs to burn 800/60 or 13.34 Calories per minute. Since humans use ~5 Calories for every 1 liter of oxygen consumed that means that a person would have to AVERAGE at least 2.67 liters of oxygen consumption per minute to burn 800 calories in an hour.

-The equation if one was inclined to do the math is: (((10.8 x Watts) / Body Weight in Kg + 7) x Body Weight)/1000 = Liters per minute. So, a 70 KG person (154 lbs) pedaling at a work rate of 200 watts would be using about 2.65 liters/ min. or roughly 800 Calories. A heavier person would presumably require less energy, and a lighter person would require more.

To put this in context, most riders in the tour de france average slightly more than 200 watts on any given stage. In fact, most of the professional females I have worked with are not able to sustain workloads greater than 200 watts for more than a few minutes.

So, while it is not impossible for a STRONG rider to burn 800 calories for an hour, most would be doing well to reach the 500-600 range for an hour long ride.

Now, if they try to tell you it's because of high intensity interval training or some such thing, the bottom line still applies: 1 Liter of O2 for every 5 Calories.

I hope that my long winded response was helpful rather than confusing! :)

Re-reading his response really helped me. Now I don't feel like such a weenie for my power output!

[murielalex]

I've been reading this thread with interest and have a question for those who have cut out grains. I've been eating grain and sugar free for almost three months now, have dropped a significant amount of weight (25 pounds), feel great, etc. I've also not been on my bike for more than a few slow miles a week due to an ankle injury. I'm just starting to get back into things (been off since Nov. 10), am starting up with Computrainer days (am still a bit afraid that if I get 10 miles out on the real road and start hurting, I won't be able to make it back home), and am hopefully going to be back to doing at least 40-50 mile rides on weekend days, and maybe longer sooner. I'd been making bike food from The Feed Zone cookbook (rice stuff), and used the occasional gels. What do you gals eat while on the bike or during weeks when you're doing daily endurance riding/training? I've read Paleo for Athletes, and although I understood it, I can't say that it sunk in enough to translate into a practical plan for me. Would love some ideas.

[tulip]

I've been reading this thread with interest and have a question for those who have cut out grains. I've been eating grain and sugar free for almost three months now, have dropped a significant amount of weight (25 pounds), feel great, etc. I've also not been on my bike for more than a few slow miles a week due to an ankle injury. I'm just starting to get back into things (been off since Nov. 10), am starting up with Computrainer days (am still a bit afraid that if I get 10 miles out on the real road and start hurting, I won't be able to make it back home), and am hopefully going to be back to doing at least 40-50 mile rides on weekend days, and maybe longer sooner. I'd been making bike food from The Feed Zone cookbook (rice stuff), and used the occasional gels. What do you gals eat while on the bike or during weeks when you're doing daily endurance riding/training? I've read Paleo for Athletes, and although I understood it, I can't say that it sunk in enough to translate into a practical plan for me. Would love some ideas.

Beef jerky, nuts, and bananas work for me. Not as convenient as PowerBars, though. It's hard when you eliminate sugar. For drinks, I used to rely on G2, but Nuun tablets don't have sugar (I think). I'd be interested in learning some more ideas.

[WindingRoad]

SadieKate - That is interesting information from your friend. When I spin I frequently attain 200 watts for long periods of time. I intentionally push myself hard to get in a workout. I am only guessing, but I think I'm extremely fit for cycling. Other sports not as much. Seems my body is very efficient at cycling because I have ridden a lot. Even when I don't ride as much as I like, I do hard spins like the one I mention or I am commuting while towing things. I had a lung capacity test done in school and I have the lung capacity of an adult male. I realize I'm sitting outside the norms which I guess is why I got nervous to see my calorie count and HR in the first place.

My HR monitor has the chest strap and in the past has been very accurate but since I have been exercising 'hard' at high HRs where people say they aren't as accurate? Well who knows, maybe it is wrong for that. I am happy to discover that I can run again. Apparently the ripped tendon in my foot finally healed, so now I am going to do more of my no so efficient sport: running.

[GLC1968]

I'm not really a good example about how to fuel for long rides as I haven't really done many since I went paleo. The first year, I was still training for tri and doing long runs (2+ hours) and somewhat longer bike rides (3+ hours). I would find that I didn't need to eat anything at all unless it was going to hit a 2 hour workout session. Then I would supplement with gels (my one, non-paleo, regular 'food'). I only drink water.

I got injured before I did my first Whole30 (when I truly cut out ALL sugar) and I've only been slowly getting back into working out regularly again a year later (ugh). The longest workouts I do now are about an hour and I don't need food for those at all. I expect that as my rides get longer, I'll use things like sweet potatoes, bananas and dates when I need the sugar. I'm really not sure what I'm going to do when running as my stomach typically can't handle solid food on a longer run, but we'll see. I may try baby food pouches. I used a couple of those in the past and while expensive, they seemed to work great (easy to carry, easy to consume, easy to digest)

[Catrin]

I've found that beef jerky (nitrate free), dried cherries and macadamia nuts seem to work fine for me on the bike - and a banana when I get home. I've not gone for a REALLY long bike ride since going primal last July, I think the longest ride I've had since then is 40 miles.

This year I will experiment with making my own "larabars". I really like them but it would be more cost-effective to make them myself and then I've total control over the ingredients.

[Owlie]

Beef jerky, nuts, and bananas work for me. Not as convenient as PowerBars, though. It's hard when you eliminate sugar. For drinks, I used to rely on G2, but Nuun tablets don't have sugar (I think). I'd be interested in learning some more ideas.

They don't, but they do have xylitol which bothers some people's guts. (I find it a bigger problem off the bike, actually.)

[Owlie]

I've found that beef jerky (nitrate free), dried cherries and macadamia nuts seem to work fine for me on the bike - and a banana when I get home. I've not gone for a REALLY long bike ride since going primal last July, I think the longest ride I've had since then is 40 miles.

This year I will experiment with making my own "larabars". I really like them but it would be more cost-effective to make them myself and then I've total control over the ingredients.

Threadjack: Now I want cherry, macadamia and white chocolate cookies. Good thing that would require going shopping.

[tothepeak]

I asked a friend who has a masters in exercise physiology and was doing research for NASA at the time about the claims of a local spin studio owner. My friend is also a cycling coach. I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't think him a credible source. Here's his answer:


I'm always a bit amazed by claims like this. I'll start by saying that it is POSSIBLE to burn 800 calories per hour while cycling. However, it is unlikely that a person without a high level of cardiovascular fitness can achieve an energy expenditure in that range, Here's how the math breaks down:

In order to burn 800 calories in an hour, a person needs to burn 800/60 or 13.34 Calories per minute. Since humans use ~5 Calories for every 1 liter of oxygen consumed that means that a person would have to AVERAGE at least 2.67 liters of oxygen consumption per minute to burn 800 calories in an hour.

-The equation if one was inclined to do the math is: (((10.8 x Watts) / Body Weight in Kg + 7) x Body Weight)/1000 = Liters per minute. So, a 70 KG person (154 lbs) pedaling at a work rate of 200 watts would be using about 2.65 liters/ min. or roughly 800 Calories. A heavier person would presumably require less energy, and a lighter person would require more.

To put this in context, most riders in the tour de france average slightly more than 200 watts on any given stage. In fact, most of the professional females I have worked with are not able to sustain workloads greater than 200 watts for more than a few minutes.

So, while it is not impossible for a STRONG rider to burn 800 calories for an hour, most would be doing well to reach the 500-600 range for an hour long ride.

Now, if they try to tell you it's because of high intensity interval training or some such thing, the bottom line still applies: 1 Liter of O2 for every 5 Calories.

I hope that my long winded response was helpful rather than confusing! :)
!

I agree that most those calorie burn numbers are way too high for a spin class, most people during high intensity intervals are at least at a 1:1 work/rest ratio...so 30-45 min of that class were probably spent at an easier intensity...
I have to say though, I am surprised that your friend has not seen "pro women hold more than 200 watts for more than a few minutes" I am no where near pro, and my LT is at 230, which I can sustain for 20-45 min at least...there are tons of higher level women I know who have LT numbers in the 250-300 watt range...not sure what pros he has worked with, but unless they are incredibly tiny/light, 200 watts is a pretty normal power number for a girl...

[OakLeaf]

Unsurprisingly we've been around to power outputs before... http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=13750

I wouldn't necessarily trust the wattage numbers on a piece of gym equipment either, but if those are coming from a decent power meter, they're likely pretty close. ToThePeak's numbers are consistent with the ones Velogirl posted six years ago, assuming "nowhere near pro" means Cat 2-3.


Also, bake me some of those cookies.

[Catrin]

I now have the Nook version of the book and am looking forward to reading it before I take this on. My diet has been pretty darn clean since July, so it will be interesting to see what my body thinks of things. I will probably start a Whole30 journal on MDA to help me keep track of things - and it is good to get input. For MDA members I am Catrin there as well.

Sleep and stress relief is also key and can certainly affect our weight and weight-loss activities in ways that aren't obvious.

Seems really odd to quote me....but I wanted to at least tie this to a thread where we've touched on the topic.

For interested members who are also on Mark's Daily Apple, I've started a Whole 30 journal there - my Whole 30 will start Saturday. I've the same username there so finding me should be easy if you are interested in following my journal. I welcome any helpful comments - and it will be interesting to see how much a difference this makes since my diet is pretty darn clean NOW. I am doing this to learn more about how MY body works, and to uncover any remaining dietary sensitivities.

[GLC1968]

Seems really odd to quote me....but I wanted to at least tie this to a thread where we've touched on the topic.

For interested members who are also on Mark's Daily Apple, I've started a Whole 30 journal there - my Whole 30 will start Saturday. I've the same username there so finding me should be easy if you are interested in following my journal. I welcome any helpful comments - and it will be interesting to see how much a difference this makes since my diet is pretty darn clean NOW. I am doing this to learn more about how MY body works, and to uncover any remaining dietary sensitivities.

I'll have to head over there to follow your journey. When I started my first Whole30, I was fairly clean myself (I think you are even 'cleaner' than I was) and I was quite shocked at how my body reacted to the Whole30. It was actually a bit of a challenge dealing with it from a mental perspective because I kept thinking I shouldn't be going through 'withdrawals'. My second Whole30 was somewhat easier because I'd done so much 'off roading' prior to starting that I was expecting to feel pretty crappy for awhile. Odd, I know. In both cases, by day 18 or 19, I was feeling quite amazing. Better than I'd ever felt prior...it was enlightening.

I'm not super clean now because I'm on the road, but I'm going to do a Whole60 starting the day after I'm done with travel (March 3 or 4). :)

[WindingRoad]

OK so I stopped relying on my Polar and now I lost 3 Lbs, finally going the right direction :-) In my Polar's defense however, I read on their website that the strap I have (the OLD one) is only good for 2500 hours. My HRM is at least 6 years old so I'm sure my battery in the strap is dead. It went totally crazy on me last night in spin so I ordered a new one today. BTW, in case you were wondering, the NEW Polar's do allow you to change the battery in the watch AND the strap. I just like to see my HR when I'm working out for some reason. I feel odd not having my HRM on. Silly? Probably, but it makes me work out more so I can SEE what I have done.

[indysteel]

That's great WR! Good job!

[WindingRoad]

Thanks Indy. It's so hard right now with all the crazy that is my life at the moment, lol!

[Catrin]

I hear you WindingRoad, it is odd to exercise without the HRM, I totally get that. Great news that you figured out what was going on!

[indysteel]

Thanks Indy. It's so hard right now with all the crazy that is my life at the moment, lol!

Kudos to you for fitting exercise and diet into your life right now, WR! You rock!

When I was in law school, I had to work out. Otherwise the stress was just too much. But it was hard. I often had to workout at 10 or 11 pm. I had a step (the kind you use in aerobics classes) in my apartment, three or four videos and the world's smallest/oldest tv. I made it work somehow.

[GLC1968]

When I was in law school, I had to work out. Otherwise the stress was just too much. But it was hard. I often had to workout at 10 or 11 pm. I had a step (the kind you use in aerobics classes) in my apartment, three or four videos and the world's smallest/oldest tv. I made it work somehow.

Ha! I did the same thing when I worked in retail management. I was so stressed from my day, even though it was often very physical (on my feet, carrying clothing, re-configuring walls/displays, slinging boxes, etc) I needed ME time. I could never have gone to a class because I really needed to be alone to de-stress and my workout videos were like good friends. I made a tall box step out of a milk crate with a couple of 2 x 6 boards lashed to the bottom (and turned upside down)!

[Catrin]

I never thought I would enjoy hitting the gym before 6am, but much to my surprise I do. I think it has to do with getting it out of the way and not having anything from my work-day hanging around in my head to distract me from what my body is doing. I still over-think ~ I can't seem to help that (and it can frustrate my trainer) but it is enjoyable and eases the stress of the coming day.

Indy, that is an amazing schedule and glad you were able to make that work for you!

[indysteel]

I made a tall box step out of a milk crate with a couple of 2 x 6 boards lashed to the bottom (and turned upside down)!

That's so clever! You're such an engineer (I mean that in a good way)!

[indysteel]

I made a tall box step out of a milk crate with a couple of 2 x 6 boards lashed to the bottom (and turned upside down)!

That's so clever! You're such an engineer (I mean that in a good way)!

[DebSP]

Okay so I finished my Whole30 and I went completely mad! I have been eating sweets like crazy and yes I feel horrible but the mind wants what the mind wants! I have a wedding to go to and a birthday coming up so I am trying to eat clean on the days in between. I have promised myself that this will be the last birthday cake for myself that I eat. I have emotional ties to the cake my Mom made me every year without fail! My daughter has been making them for the past few years and she is moving overseas so this is a special one. But I did lose 6 pounds in those 30 days. I haven't been 144 lbs for years! I wasn't perfect on my whole30. Too much fruit and nuts and too many days eating the same thing day after day while I tried to sort it all out. If I try again, I will plan better and go longer. I cannot break 50 years of sugar addiction in 30 days apparently!

[WindingRoad]

I have to say kicking sugar is sooooooo hard to do. I have been good lately. I'm not doing Paleo or Whole30 I'm just doing my own version of eating clean and more protein. A fuji apple and some almond butter can save my day when I start craving sweets though. I've been doing this almost a month and only just NOW am I getting past the craving of junk food. It's insane how strong that urge is sometimes. I have stopped eating wheat products too

[Catrin]

Both of you are doing great! Yayyyy for both of you :)

Here is a magazine length article (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) from the New York Times on the science behind the American junk food addiction - PamNY first posted this in another thread on this forum. I've not had time to do more than scan it, but it looks like an interesting read.

[Becky]

I really enjoyed that article, Catrin. I'm looking forward to reading the book when it's published.

[Catrin]

There is also a new book called "Rich Food Poor Food (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/rich-food-poor-food-jayson-calton/1114066221?ean=9780984755172)" that helps folks find the healthiest choices at the grocery store. "Rich Food" - foods high in micro-nutrients and Poor Food = the opposite and/or harmful. There is a lot of discussion how manufacturers will sometimes play games with the labels to make their product look healthier than they are, and harmful ingredients to look out for. I've just ordered the book after reading the reviews and the sample on my Nook (there are a lot of graphics and charts so I got the paperback version rather than the electronic) I've read the sample and there are some very good reviews of the book. From what I've seen of this so far, it will be attractive to a broad audience.

This is a podcast (download as MP3) by the authors of "Practical Paleo" with the authors of "Rich Food Poor Food". It isn't very short, but there is a lot of good information here on what caused them to write the book and provides a nice synopsis of the book.

Download MP3 version (http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/4/444/show_4444265.mp3)

If you prefer to access the video through iTunes or some other format then go here to the podcast page (http://balancedbites.com/2013/02/podcast-episode-75-mira-jayson-calton-talk-rich-food-poor-food.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=podcast-episode-75-mira-jayson-calton-talk-rich-food-poor-food).

[Miranda]

http://www.livestrong.com/article/490909-the-accuracy-of-calories-burned-in-polar-heart-rate-monitors/

This is a link above that should go to a short article about HRM accuracy & depending how you set them.

One of the best general ways I have found to set them is by working the max HR number "backwards", which closest resembles your PE (perceived exersion).

OK, so when you are at your "jogging with a friend" intensity, i.e. sweating, working, but at a steady sustainable pace, and enough wind left over to chat a short sentenance, i.e. "how was your day?", that's about 75% of your MHR. So...

Take that number of BPM as your HR and DIVIDE by 0.75 (i.e. 75%) and use THAT number as your "max HR" in the manual override setting in your monitor.

***my Polar is a F6... it's...OK (right side button)...scroll up, settings...user...view user extra settings...HR Max...<<<this is where you override the max "stock number", i.e. 220-your age is "stock set"

I found this suggestion of calculating backwards from a Spinning instructor forum I use for support. And I think tho it's simple, it's pretty close/good.

I field tested it road cycling once when I was sprinting on a hill to escape a chasing dog. By the time I escaped I was truly near my Max...i.e. seeings black spots, nausea, ready to pass out literally. Since I use a Garmin outside, I was able to pinpoint my heart rate on the route with the dog chasing and look at the number. That number as my max ties out with my 75% backwards equation. Hope this makes sense.:rolleyes:

Sooooooo... I concurr that I think your calories are overestimated. Alot of people make that mistake. Over-eat based upon calorie burn over-estimation. I usually ask "is your monitor set correctly? Or when was the last time you re-checked your current fitness level against the last time you re-set it?"

Hope this helps!:)

p.s. IF the gym spin bike has a computer that picks up HRMs, the "stock settings" for calorie burn was set for a 150lbs male approx age 30s...if memory serves me right from when one of my gym's I taught at had them (was Spinning bike brand)...thus you can see the inaccuracy assumptions right there

[WindingRoad]

Thanks Miranda! OK the dog story just made me LOL! About a year or so ago I did manually set my HR Max and VO2 on my F6 and had good reading after that. I think since the strap battery has been dying the readings were progressively getting crazier until it was showing me at over 200 BPM. I recently bought a new Polar F7 and oddly it doesn't seem to have the ability to manually set those things BUT it's also giving me very realistic calorie burns so go figure, maybe they improved something? All I want to know is my calories is that too much to ask :-O No seriously, I feel at least so far the new F7 is giving pretty good readings, they aren't way off from treadmills or even MyFitnessPal's website which before they were way off. The new F7 also has the ability to change the friggin' battery yourself thank goodness.

[Miranda]

Thanks Miranda! OK the dog story just made me LOL! About a year or so ago I did manually set my HR Max and VO2 on my F6 and had good reading after that. I think since the strap battery has been dying the readings were progressively getting crazier until it was showing me at over 200 BPM. I recently bought a new Polar F7 and oddly it doesn't seem to have the ability to manually set those things BUT it's also giving me very realistic calorie burns so go figure, maybe they improved something? All I want to know is my calories is that too much to ask :-O No seriously, I feel at least so far the new F7 is giving pretty good readings, they aren't way off from treadmills or even MyFitnessPal's website which before they were way off. The new F7 also has the ability to change the friggin' battery yourself thank goodness.

YW:) Glad it was of some help! Ya, I know, I just sent my F6 in to get serviced and the battery changed. Hmm, there outta be a way to override if you needed to. I have emailed and called the place where I sent mine to for service. It was from a Polar web site. This place was in Ann Arbor, MI (800)-742-4478. But, it sounds like it's still working ok with the new one. It's SO hard to get those pounds off! I'm struggling with some of my own *sigh*. Good Luck!:cool:

[WindingRoad]

I would have kept my old F6 but I spilled gasoline on it last summer and ever since the face has been badly pitted. I buffed a bunch of it out but then my LCDs started burning out too. I am a little surprised they didn't have the override on the new model. I wonder why they opted not to do that. Don't feel alone, I'm still struggling too. I quit weighing, it is just driving me nuts it fluctuates so much I am now just going by size and clothes.

[Catrin]

I got a new Polar HRM in early 2012...now the watch is all beat up from playing with Kettlebells at the gym. It was too late by the time I noticed this, so now I will just use it for riding I think. I think there is a way to do that over-ride in the new versions but it isn't intuitive. I will check it out tonight and see if I can retrace my steps on how I did it.

[WindingRoad]

Avidd - yep I have been taking my vitamins; anything in particular you suggest for weight loss?

Catrin - which model do you have?

[Catrin]

Avidd - yep I have been taking my vitamins; anything in particular you suggest for weight loss?

Catrin - which model do you have?

I've the Polar FT60. I forgot to check it out last night for the override, will try to remember tonight.

[WindingRoad]

Mine isn't as nice as that, mine is an F7. It may not have those features.

[WindingRoad]

I haven't really lost much more weight but I started checking measurements about 4 weeks ago, as of yesterday I have lost 2 inches off my waist. It's so wierd. I could tell my clothes were definitely fitting better but when it comes the the scale, it's just not moving much. So odd. Do any of you experience this?

[Catrin]

I haven't really lost much more weight but I started checking measurements about 4 weeks ago, as of yesterday I have lost 2 inches off my waist. It's so wierd. I could tell my clothes were definitely fitting better but when it comes the the scale, it's just not moving much. So odd. Do any of you experience this?

It sounds like you are adding muscle and losing fat - which is the ideal :)

[indysteel]

Great job, WR!!!!

I wish I could find a Facebook post that one of DH's friend recently posted. It showed the progress of a woman who was participating in a Crossfit type program. Her weight actually had gone up from the mid-120s to the mid-130s, but she looked so much thinner and fitter at the heavier weight. It really illustrated the point that body composition is far important than the scale.

[WindingRoad]

Awesome to hear that Indy :-) Especially since I've been a little self conscious lately. I was getting worried I was doing something all wrong. Maybe I should just not even weigh myself. It drives me nuts and makes me crazy trying to figure it all out, lol. I can tell my clothes are fitting better and that's gonna have to be good enough because my scale hates me ;-)

[Catrin]

Awesome to hear that Indy :-) Especially since I've been a little self conscious lately. I was getting worried I was doing something all wrong. Maybe I should just not even weigh myself. It drives me nuts and makes me crazy trying to figure it all out, lol. I can tell my clothes are fitting better and that's gonna have to be good enough because my scale hates me ;-)

It isn't a bad idea to take a break from the scales, many do. It gets so easy to focus on that number even though it doesn't give the whole story. What matters is our body composition and THAT it can't tell us. It sounds to me like you have dialed in what works for your body - it isn't easy to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time and that is what you are doing from the sounds of it :) WTG!

[indysteel]

Yeah; I've been a little frustrated myself with the scale of late. I don't want to absolve myself of all responsbility for this because I do have a really bad sweet tooth, but my thyroid condition has not made it easy to keep a check on my weight. When the hyperactivity has been uncontrolled, I've lost a few pounds but my appetite has also increased....such that when I get the thyroid back under control with medication, my weight has crept up because I haven't simultaneously controlled my appetite. Plus, it's been challenging not to overmedicate, as I have to keep adjusting my doseage downward.

So, I have about five pounds I arguably need to lose. I'm working out six days a week on average and do a fair amount of resistance work, so that part of the equation is good, but the rest of it is frustrating. I'm trying to focus on the positive, too, though. There have been times in this process that I didn't have the energy to work out nearly never day. I wasn't sleeping well and I lost some muscle strength (Graves Disease can weaken muscle), so the fact that I'm working out consistently, sleeping through the night most nights, upping my weights and generally feeling a lot more energetic is great.

[WindingRoad]

Indy sorry so late to respond on this, crazy schedule here. I can only imagine how hard it is with Grave's. I have a hard enough time with not having GD getting motivated to get out and do what I need to do. I've seen several patients with Grave's Disease in our clinic and they are not nearly as motivated as you to treat themselves properly. You are an inspiration so you know.

[indysteel]

Thank you, WR. That's a very kind thing to say. I have to admit that as GD gies, I have it easy. My case has been mild compared to many. It's more that it messes with my head. Add in perimenopause, and "normal" becomes a moving target.

I have been watching my diet a bit more and have dropped a few pounds, so that's good. I have to really watch it though. When I get hungry, I turn into a crazy person. So, I have to make sure I have a healthy snack within easy reach.