16 hour daily fast?

[SAMbike]

Has anyone else seen this story?
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/01/09/eight-hour-diet-the-secret-to-weight-loss/

I don't know if I can go that long each day without eating (I get cranky when I get hungry) but I might give it a try. I just ate breakfast about 30 min ago so don't think today's the day to try it!

sam

[emily_in_nc]

Interesting. I would think it would matter which eight hours you eat in. If you eat breakfast early, lunch, and an early dinner, I can see this working as you have more time to burn off what you've eaten that day. But if you skip breakfast and just eat lunch and dinner, isn't that the exact pattern that's been said to make people fatter and less healthy, since eating a good breakfast seems to be so important to metabolism and health?

[OakLeaf]

I would think good blood sugar control is a must before starting on something like that. It doesn't sound like you have that?

Lots has been written about how Muslim athletes fuel for training and competition during Ramadan. If I were thinking about doing something like that, I'd look at their and their trainers' discussions.

More generally, it annoys me when evolutionary justifications are advanced, without evidence, for various practices that might or might not be valid. True, the earliest hominids evolved in equatorial regions where night and day were close to equal, year round. But it's also true that human DNA changed quite a bit while we were developing agriculture (emphasizing carbs and relatively empty calories that enabled them to work more hours of the day) and dispersing throughout the world (possibly making localized adaptations to seasonal changes - such as what we've been talking about in the hunger/cold thread). I would think that anyone whose ancestry comes mostly from temperate climates would do better to tailor both activity and nutrition to the available natural light. Not that anyone with a job outside of agriculture can do that in the 21st century - and even a lot of agricultural work is no longer dependent on light any more, with GPS-guided farm equipment. :( :mad:

[Crankin]

This is not based on any empirical evidence, but there is no way I could do this. I can barely go 2 hours without eating! I have never been able to fast, even on Yom Kippur. The most I could do is drink herbal tea/diluted oj until about 6 PM, and even then, it was not worth the wicked headache I got. It doesn't seem like this is a practical way to live, without even thinking about things like fueling for training.

[Catrin]

There are those in the Paleo/Primal community who do intermittent fasting (IF) once their bodies have become accustomed to burning fat for energy. It works for them (some quite long-term), but many appear to be male. I've heard there is research that shows that this doesn't work as well for women but I've not read the studies myself as I am really not interested in going this route. Part of it is knowing our individual bodies and what works for us.

[e3rdpower]

There's been a lot of chatter about IF for women lately. Long story short it appears to mess us up more often then the men folk. I personally did not do well with IF (this was in a period of time when I was not riding, and I imagine it would be worse with riding.)

http://www.paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

http://www.stumptuous.com/rant-66-december-2012-the-first-rule-of-fast-club

http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/train-man-eat-woman

http://www.fitnessbaddies.com/train-like-a-man-but-eat-like-a-woman-is-intermittent-fasting-dangerous-for-women/

[Catrin]

Thanks for the links. I was tempted to try this but I know my body well enough that I didn't think it would work for me. It is hard enough for me to get enough calories/nutrition given my activity level as it is, there is NO way that I could do that in just one meal... That being said I know a couple of women for whom it works well, just goes to show that nutrition isn't "cookie cutter".

[Owlie]

I couldn't do it. At least, not as written. I need to eat within 2 hours of waking up. Otherwise I get headaches. BF can manage it. Heck, he can ride on an empty stomach.

A big breakfast (ie, bacon, egg, sausage, hash browns...basically a fat-delivery system) will usually get me through the day until dinner, with perhaps a light lunch. Skipping it entirely...no way.

[DocZan89]

I agree with you Emily. If I could eat from 7:00 AM to 3:00PM and drink warm drinks, I could probably do it. But my schedule doesn't allow for this. Guess it'll just have to be sensible eating for me.

Rosanna

[OakLeaf]

I imagine it would be worse with riding.

Not necessarily ... I think it depends a lot on intensity, among other things. High intensity activities consume energy faster than the body can convert fat to glucose. Low intensity, not necessarily. It's been a very long time for me, and I know my metabolism is very different from what it was 30-35 years ago, but back in the day, I've done several easy 50-milers in the middle of 5-7 day juice fasts, and felt really good.

I think exercise generally tends to stabilize blood sugar in non-diabetic people (also IIRC in people with Type II diabetes, though I don't know that for sure).

[GLC1968]

I certainly don't plan my meals around the idea that I need to fast, but I often go long periods without eating when I am fat-adapted. It actually makes life a lot easier knowing that I don't need to eat every two hours like I used to when I was primarily burning carbs. I have more even energy, I think clearer, my moods are more stable and I eat so much less often that it's kind of a relief.

Eating only during an 8 hour window just seems really gimmicky. I mean, if you ate nothing but birthday cake and ice cream for 8 hours, you sure as hell wouldn't lose weight, so I think it's a very misleading article. Besides, the headaches I'd have had if I went 16 hours without food when I was a sugar-burner would have knocked me flat in two days for sure!

[SAMbike]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Sometimes I think I'm just looking for the "trick" that will help me lose those final pounds... even though I really deep down know what I need to do. It's clear it's not for me, but there is something to be said for letting the body fast overnight (I don't mean for 16 hrs, but just not eating at 11pm)

OakLeaf you said it's clear I don't have good blood-sugar control. I assume you said that because I said I get cranky when hungry - yes? I would love to find out how to not be that way. There have been times when it has affected the people I'm with and my decisions too (for example I'll not have eaten for about 3-4 hours during the afternoon at a conference, trying not to eat the junk, searching for something more healthy, and the crankiness ensues... which makes me then get desperate (excuse) and eat the cookies; or with my SO sometimes when I haven't eaten in a while and it's clear I'm not in a good mood). Any insights or references as to how I can stop this from happening would be great.

Thanks!

[Crankin]

Well, despite the fact I am not total Paleo, I have changed my eating so much that I can't believe that I am still a "carb burner." I never "eat the cookies," so to speak, but I still need to eat very frequently. I have at least 2 snacks a day, because that staves it off mostly. The times I feel hungry are pretty regular. Between 10-11 AM and around 3 PM. Other times I am hungry within 30 minutes after a meal. That is a healthy meal, with no carbs. I can distract myself, but often I have to eat a handful of nuts. I don't eat tiny portions,but it seems like sometimes, if I don't eat even more, I am just super hungry. Obviously, I am not overweight, but I have a hard time maintaining my weight.
So, if you can tell me how to not be cranky when I'm hungry (which occurs very frequently), that would be swell.

[OakLeaf]

Oh geez, it wasn't a moral judgment!!

Sure there are things that we all probably already do, for the most part, that we have a moderate to high degree of control over, like what and when we eat, and how physically active we are in our free time. But obviously there are a WHOLE lot of factors in blood sugar control that we have a lot less control over. Genetics. How much natural sunlight our work and home environment allows us. Many chemical exposures. What we were fed as children. Our history of physical activity. What we ate and exposed ourselves to when we were old enough to choose but too young to know better. External emotional stressors. How physically active we can be at work. And on and on and on.

I'm the last one right now to be suggesting that anyone's health is voluntary, so PLEASE don't interpret what I said that way! I only meant that restricting eating hours didn't sound like a good idea for everyone. In the exact same way that certain exercises, that are generally very beneficial, shouldn't be done by people with poor shoulder stability. Like me, at the moment.



PS - Conference type things are the WORST for me too. Mental alertness takes a HUGE amount of glucose, and there you are enforced into being sedentary under the fluorescents for hours, nothing whatsoever to stimulate your body to turn fat into glucose, so my blood sugar just gets lower and lower. I don't think evolution prepared us for seminars! My blood sugar control is fairly good and way better than it used to be, but I know if I'm going to be sitting and thinking for hours at a stretch, I HAVE to eat something if I want to be able to drive home safely. I can do things to help - making sure I get a morning workout, even if I have to give up an hour of sleep and there's that natural light thing for ya again - and then a high protein high fat meal afterward - but if it goes on long enough, I'll still get the crash. That's just my body, same as your bodies are yours.

[SAMbike]

Hi OakLeaf,

I totally didn't take it as a moral judgement, I sincerely was intrigued by your observation and wanted to find out more about how to control blood-sugar levels. You've provided a lot of insight in your response for me, and I really appreciate it a lot! Will work getting more natural sunlight for sure, I think that plays a huge role, and making sure to get exercise in the morning when I know I'm going to be chair-bound for hours on end at conferences... thank you for your response!

-sam

[e3rdpower]

Not necessarily ... I think it depends a lot on intensity, among other things. High intensity activities consume energy faster than the body can convert fat to glucose. Low intensity, not necessarily. It's been a very long time for me, and I know my metabolism is very different from what it was 30-35 years ago, but back in the day, I've done several easy 50-milers in the middle of 5-7 day juice fasts, and felt really good.

I think exercise generally tends to stabilize blood sugar in non-diabetic people (also IIRC in people with Type II diabetes, though I don't know that for sure).

Agreed. I definitely train at higher intensities at times and need my fuel for those glycolytic efforts.

[Crankin]

I didn't take it as a moral judgment, either.
Perhaps my blood sugar is a bit screwed up, and my genetics, well, I come from a family of big eaters who mostly are thin, with a sprinkling of heavy. No diabetes at all in my family. And I definitely get hungrier with all of the exercise I do.
So far, what I do works most of the time, but it's hard to have food constantly on my mind!

[goldfinch]

I didn't take it as a moral judgment, either.
Perhaps my blood sugar is a bit screwed up, and my genetics, well, I come from a family of big eaters who mostly are thin, with a sprinkling of heavy. No diabetes at all in my family. And I definitely get hungrier with all of the exercise I do.
So far, what I do works most of the time, but it's hard to have food constantly on my mind!

It doesn't seem to matter how I eat, I have food constantly on my mind. Low fat, high carb. High fat, low carb. Lots of little meals. Longer space between meals. Big breakfast. Small breakfast. Meh. It doesn't seem to matter much, if at all. At least when I am moving about I am less likely to think about food.

[GLC1968]

It doesn't seem to matter how I eat, I have food constantly on my mind. Low fat, high carb. High fat, low carb. Lots of little meals. Longer space between meals. Big breakfast. Small breakfast. Meh. It doesn't seem to matter much, if at all. At least when I am moving about I am less likely to think about food.

I used to be the same way until I figured how to filter out all the noise and truly listen to my body. A lot of that noise (for me) was coming from sugar and from the scale and I've finally learned how to deal with both. Now I eat when I am hungry (which is typically between 2 and 4 times per day depending on my activity level), I don't think about food except when I want to (like when shopping for or preparing food), I sleep sounder, my skin is clearer, my body recovers faster and I feel absolutely amazing.

For the most part, I've stopped trying to convince anyone that my way of eating the best, but over the past two weeks, I've been super squeaky clean again (my nutrition...not my body! ;) ) and I'm feeling so freaking fantastic that I can't help but want to share.

The best suggestion I can make is to read "It Starts With Food". It's not about caveman or fueling for crossfit or weight loss or a 'quick fix diet' or any claims that it will cure all ills. It just talks about how everything you feel, your entire body, every aspect of your performance from mental to physical to psychological...it all starts with what you eat. And this book does a great job of explaining exactly why they make the suggestions they do and then HOW to find out what works best for you and your particular body.

It sounds hokey, but it truly changed my life for the better.

[goldfinch]

I've read a lot and experimented a lot. I've kept a diary. I've been thoughtful. I've cut sugars. I've added them back in. Not much matters, however I do think it is worse if I eat very refined quick acting sweets, like ice cream or candy. But even if I don't I am hungry. I am just a person who has an appetite that won't be satisfied. It has been this way for years. I don't have an off switch. So, I count calories.

[Crankin]

I have never been much of a sweet eater. Or junk food. I do love bread, but have totally lost my taste for most white flour products, and barely eat any bread at all. I have to agree with Goldfinch. I have never seen much of a difference in the way I feel or in the amount of my hunger with any changes in my diet. I have definitely added good fats and protein to replace most of the carbs and I still get cravings for having at least one measly piece of Ezekial bread a day. Truth is, I enjoy eating and cooking and while I am very open to trying new ways of eating, I feel super deprived at times, especially when it involves going out to dinner, which I do a lot, and I seem to spend most of my time pre-planning what I can or cannot eat. I guess I have accepted this is the way it is, if I want to be thin, but it's wearing me down. I generally keep this to myself, and just smile when people (like at work) tell me how "good" I am.

[Crankin]

I bought the book and read it yesterday, as we had a "snow day," GLC. Interesting, but I don't think I could give up wine for 30 days! And even though my grain consumption is way down, that would be hard, too.
It did make me realize that I have been much less bothered by allergies and sinus stuff since I've reduced the grains.

[tulip]

Seems like the best way to control blood sugar fluctuations is to eliminate sugar (and related simple carbs). I've done it, it's hard to do, but the results are positive for me: more alert, less grumpy, more energy, better sleep, and lost weight. I did a 30-day no-sugar/simple carbs (anything white, essentially) trial and after the first 10 days I really began to feel better. The other part is eating good quality, non-processed foods--just not with sugar or flour. That eliminated a whole slew of foods. Cookies were definitely out! Frozen berries were in!

The exception to the no-white-food rule for me is dairy. I eat dairy--milk, half-and-half in my coffee, and yogurt (plain--full fat if I can find it). Yes, fats are okay. They make you feel full and satisfied.

I lost 9 lbs in the process. I stuck with it full-on for about 3months. It wasn't a burden after the first hard patch. I've since let sugar slip back in, but not to the extent that it was before. The main healthy habits have stuck, although I think another focused month is in order soon.

I love making bread but I don't anymore. I miss that most of all.

[Catrin]

It was challenging for me to cut out all grains and almost all sugar (outside of the very occasional dollop of honey). The results made me feel so good that I've not been tempted to cheat since I started 6 months ago. It isn't that I am trying to keep some rule, I just feel really good eating the way that I do! I've lost 10 pounds since starting, almost all of my physical issues have reversed themselves, and frankly, I love having bacon for breakfast and putting real cream in my coffee :)

The only dairy I consume is real cream in my coffee, and very occasionally, some goat cheese or full fat yogurt. I eat no grains or pseudo-grains and no processed foods. Fat isn't our enemy, sugar is. It is the combination of high carbs with high fat that causes problems, but with low-moderate carbs fat isn't the problem. I consume much more fat and animal protein than I once thought possible and my trigs have dropped way down, and my HDL/LDL ratio is far better than when I was on a conventional low-fat diet. I once thought I couldn't give up bread, but I wouldn't give up the way I feel for any amount/type of food.

[Crankin]

I would say my eating is very much like yours, Tulip, and it isn't hard for me. Doing away with all grains would be.
Last year I lost 6 lbs. and now I am having difficulty maintaining.

[Eden]

back on the OT.... for me no way I could follow a diet like that.

I can't drink any kind of liquid on an empty stomach. It makes me almost immediately severely nauseous. Hot or cold, water, tea, clear juice it doesn't matter, makes me feel like barfing and going 16 hours at a stretch with no liquids doesn't sound like great idea.

[GLC1968]

I bought the book and read it yesterday, as we had a "snow day," GLC. Interesting, but I don't think I could give up wine for 30 days! And even though my grain consumption is way down, that would be hard, too.
It did make me realize that I have been much less bothered by allergies and sinus stuff since I've reduced the grains.

You read the book in one day? Holy cow, you read fast! ;)
I haven't give up wine forever...just for 30 days (or in my case, 90 or so until my first tri of the season). And I'll eat dark chocolate and raw honey and sushi and a few other things that I'm not eating now one day again too. But I will say that not eating those things was WAY easier than I thought it would be once I cut them out cold turkey.



It was challenging for me to cut out all grains and almost all sugar (outside of the very occasional dollop of honey). The results made me feel so good that I've not been tempted to cheat since I started 6 months ago. It isn't that I am trying to keep some rule, I just feel really good eating the way that I do! I've lost 10 pounds since starting, almost all of my physical issues have reversed themselves, and frankly, I love having bacon for breakfast and putting real cream in my coffee :)

The only dairy I consume is real cream in my coffee, and very occasionally, some goat cheese or full fat yogurt. I eat no grains or pseudo-grains and no processed foods. Fat isn't our enemy, sugar is. It is the combination of high carbs with high fat that causes problems, but with low-moderate carbs fat isn't the problem. I consume much more fat and animal protein than I once thought possible and my trigs have dropped way down, and my HDL/LDL ratio is far better than when I was on a conventional low-fat diet. I once thought I couldn't give up bread, but I wouldn't give up the way I feel for any amount/type of food.

I 100% agree. I can't get over how much fat I eat now and yet I am getting leaner, feeling better and my blood work is literally off the charts. My triglycerides didn't register on the scale and my HDL/LDL ratio is spectacular. I had really good cholesterol numbers before I started this...now they are just remarkable (as the biometrics lady told me in October).

[Crankin]

I do read really fast, GLC, always have. I did skim over some of the stuff I felt I already knew.
I eat a lot more fat now, too. My HDL/LDL ratio has always been off the charts great, but my total cholesterol went up last year to a bad #. It's always been borderline. When I had it retested after 2 months, it was back to the borderline level, after almost entirely cutting out red meat. I do wonder if this was because I had been eating a lot more meat in the 3 months before I had the first test. It will be interesting to see what it's at now.