"People in Oregon must be poor." [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

Running Mommy

01-27-2006, 05:16 PM

When we moved to our little piece of nirvana here in AZ it was the ONE thing our son was looking forward to. School is just less than a mile from the house and he only has one major crosswalk to go through. There is a guard there, so I let him ride. He loves it. Though nervous nelly me still gave him an extra cell phone to keep in his back pack in case he has an emergency. He's only 8 and I can't tell you how conflicted I was giving him a phone! But that way he can take his time riding home w/ his friends and I don't worry if he's late. When we lived in Northern CA I would have never felt safe letting him ride- and the school was only two blocks away!! In fact I found out that a little girl was molested walking to school on our old block about a year after we moved away. SAD!

yellow

01-27-2006, 06:41 PM

I don't even know that it's "honesty", really. I agree that alot of it is fear (yes, we're big on that these days, though I distincly remember many "offers" for lifts home from stranges when I rode my bike or walked back in the early 70s...), but I think alot of it is laziness wearing the cloak of something else (fear, mostly). It takes too much time to prepare for and ride to school. It's simply a lot easier and "safer" to just hop in the car and get there. I've had friends that are parents admit this to me, so I know it's not just my imagination.

But what's going to happen when we really have to THINK about our use of petroleum products?? OK, I'll stop there. :rolleyes:

I have pretty strong opinions about the physical fitness of kids today, but since I'm not a parent I really don't feel like I can spout them freely. I worry that a kid that grew up on XBox instead of building forts, riding bikes everywhere, and catching stickelbacks will be in control of my retirement accounts. :eek:

massbikebabe

01-27-2006, 08:57 PM

Funny...

We just had this conversation the other night at my dinner table. What ever
happened to riding your bike down to the pond, walking home soon as the street lights went on, kick the can with EVERY kid on the block. When we tried to explain these fun times with the kids they just didn't get it:( , my kids are 17 and 14.

I figure 2 things happened that forces us to take childhood from our children.

1. Moms went to work...plain and simple, and I'm not trying to cause anger here, I was also a working mom. Soon as moms left the house kids were put in daycare, or tended to by elder relatives, who may not have the engery to chase them.

2. Child abduction/abuse. I believe this has always been a part of our history,
however today the media is doing a marvelous job bringing it to our attention.
Example...Polly Klaus, when that poor child went missing I was working at night and heard about it on CNN less than 5 hours after she was abducted.
Same with the young lady in Utah, and I sat here in Massachusetts and felt the deep dread, deep in my gut, that those poor mothers must have been feeling.

So what's the solution?? I don't know. My DH and I were both very busy career folks, and had only quality, not quantity time to spend with our kids. So when we had weekends or evenings together we took hikes, rode bikes,
played in the yard, went swimming, or sat and played a game. My kids have all the video gadgets but I never allowed them the opportunity to make a career of using them. Niether of them are fat, matter of fact my son is thin as a rail, and my daughter is proportional for her small stature. Both are very athletic, some say my son is "gifted". I can only pray I did right by them...

karen
sca

nuthatch

01-28-2006, 03:39 AM

So what's the solution?? I don't know.

I've thought about this issue so much! The main thing I regret that my kids haven't experienced is all the "bored" time we had as kids. That's where we learned to think and consider the world and learn about ourselves - just spending time watching ants on the sidewalk!

We are a two career family, too, but when they were really young, I was at home. I watched what happened whenever the power went out (a frequent occurance at our house) and all the electronics were unavailable. After about five minutes of whining, they started doing all the stuff I had done as a kid!! And because I didn't have enough experience with this sort of playing as a parent, the worry drove me crazy.

All the distractions this modern life provides us with just short-circuits that "play" impulse. And we as parents are quietly relieved that they are safe inside instead of out in the wild. Even with a parent at home, attentive and tuned in to them, if they are out playing like we did, they are at risk, just like we were at risk. So I think you're right about the reasons Massbikebabe. I'm guiltily grateful that they aren't out there risking life and limb and feeling sad that they are missing out on so much fun.

Trek420

01-28-2006, 05:32 AM

happy birthday massbikebabe who wrote

"I figure 2 things happened that forces us to take childhood from our children.

1. Moms went to work...plain and simple, and I'm not trying to cause anger here, I was also a working mom. Soon as moms left the house kids were put in daycare, or tended to by elder relatives, who may not have the engery to chase them."

I dunno about that, my (and therefore bikelessinWi's) Mom worked which was unusual in the 60's. We kids were in daycare but it was the first co-op daycare in at least Sonoma county and for one thing being a co-op...both parents were there! This wasn't the kind of thing where parents dropped the kids off and "alrighty now, done with them", parents had to spend some time there.

A common joke in our family is when Mom starts to say "do you remember so and so? She's a Nobel Prize winning chemist or whatever now..." "Did we go to nursery school with her?" the kids turned out allright.

We grew up in the country and the whole "it takes a village" thing as kids with some hindsight I think my parents had almost a network of great families that we hung out with each others kids.

"2. Child abduction/abuse. I believe this has always been a part of our history however today the media is doing a marvelous job bringing it to our attention."

True, it's probably always been there just now more aware of it. Wasn't talked about then.

"So what's the solution?? I don't know."

Me neither. This will make me seem like an old fogey but I was just comparing all the electronic games with what we used to do as kids like take a carboard box, flatten it and slide down a hill with dry grass (try it sometime, it's a hoot.) I'd take the box over any game.

But the orriginal question was why don't more people ride or why do kids think those who do are poor, right? These are complex class issues.

I think we're always asking here; why don't they ride?

I have noticed where I live (the flats of Hayward) what I mostly see are bikes as cheap transportation and they have a look about them which says "I'd rather be in a car but here I am on a bike". Kids here may see bikes as the transport of the working poor. They don't want to be seen as that, even many kids bikes these days are designed to look more like a motorcycle.

On the other hand they may see folks who bike as rich. Where is the jersey that says "I'm just a poor gal on a really really nice bike"?

I've shared here how I stopped using my road bike to commute and take my GT hardtail. On the road bike I get a range of stares and sometimes outright hostility (elevator doors slammed instead of held that sort of thing), I'm seen as "other", "what are you doing here?" I think. On the GT because it's a MTB I'm less visible, look like one of them.

I'm rambling a bit but I'm fascinated by the "class issues" around this. Is there a sociologist in the house?

Duck on Wheels

01-28-2006, 07:22 AM

happy birthday massbikebabe who wrote
"2. Child abduction/abuse. I believe this has always been a part of our history however today the media is doing a marvelous job bringing it to our attention."

Yep. I remember the time we were at the old Safeway across from Rosenbergs. This must have been just before your time, Trek. Big Brother needed to use the bathroom. Safeway didn't have one, so he walked across to Rosenbergs. When he still wasn't back half an hour later, Mom panicked. I remember riding around in the back of a squad car, mom in tears up front, when we finally found him ... at the news stand next door to the Safeway, reading comics. But the panic was real. Abductions really did happen.

Is there a sociologist in the house?

Ok. Ok. Yes, I admit it. I'm a sociologist. I don't know the sociology of biking in the US. But as it happens, I just read the home newspapers on the net and was shocked to discover something about the sociology of hiking in Norway -- it's racist! There are hikers out there who have written in letters-to-editors complaining that their experience of the great outdoors is spoiled if they encounter dark-skinned foreigners out there. I'm ashamed and shocked! Somehow the Nazi-poster images of nordicism have survived, linking mountains and sportiness with blondness. We've gotta put an end to that image-association! But back to biking in the US. Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if there were imagery-links for biking too. We know they exist for other sports: Soccer intellectual/football working class; volleyball academic/ basketball blue collar; figure skating feminine/hockey macho; and so on and so on. So sure, quality road bike = yuppie/rugged style bike = poor. In some people's imaginations. Again, it's an imagery we need to try to dismantle.

ladyfish

01-28-2006, 08:25 AM

As a Mom of two boys (9 and 12) and I stay at home, I've seen the range. Right now my older son is off on a 10 mile hike with the Boy Scouts. My younger son is outside playing with neighbors. That seems to be the exception rather than the rule around here.

My younger son has been begging me to let him ride his bike to school. We've been walking to school every day (again, exception not norm). So I finally got the paper (yes, the school requires paperwork in order for a child to ride to school!) and filled it out. Now he is riding (and I ride with him). Granted it's winter (but it's been mild), but his is the ONLY bike at the school.

So here's what I see from my perspective. We are the exception in our neighborhood of those that walk or bike to school. The other Mom's all drive (and none carpool). Two other Moms walk regularly. Two others are sporadic in their walking. Realize, we all live within a few blocks of one another. I think it is just *easier* for them to hop in the car and go rather than walk or coordinate a carpool. Realize that it probably only takes us an extra 10 minutes to walk than it does for them to drive, due to traffic issues. (And biking is FASTER than driving because of traffic). So are we getting more lazy as a society, I think yes. Do we look for the quick solution, yes. Is this the best solution, no.

Sometimes I think the neighbors look at me funny and wonder why I let my son walk/ride to school and walk our dog alone in our neighborhood. I do worry about him, and many times he has a walkie talkie with him on his walks. But I think he needs to be a boy, and go out and play and explore. He LOVES to be outside and would rather do that than play electronic games or watch TV. I just have to let go a bit and believe that most people in the world are good and that he has a guardian angel watching him. Lets face it, he could get hurt/snatched from school too, but no one seems to think twice about that.

I remember playing outside until dark. Riding my bike to the store. Riding my bike to school. I also remember the man who stopped me and was doing lewd things and "asking" for directions. I just took off on a round-about route home and made sure he wasn't following me. I also was thinking of which neighbor's house I could dart into so he wouldn't know where I lived if he did try to follow me. So we have to let our kids grow up and face the world rather than hide from it. If others would follow along, then playing outside and riding bikes might become the norm again.

My very long two cents worth!

Cathy

maillotpois

01-28-2006, 08:57 AM

My 9 year old walks to and from school frequently, but she can't ride her bike there. Why? We live up hill from school. Up a 12 - 16% grade! So no way am I letting her ride down that yet!!! :D

Bike Goddess

01-28-2006, 09:14 AM

Yes, our society is now wrapped in fear. Fear of attack from everywhere. For childern that live in the "flatlands" and can safely ride to school but don't- I'll bet some of it is from parental fear.

If one does a check of abductions, it is a very very small number. BUT the media makes such a big deal, (remember the media often focuses on the negative, not the positive) that people think everyone is a suspect.

Also as others have said here, more convenient for Mom to take kids to school.

If I look at what happens to cyclists on the road, we too take many chances. Last year, for example, in No Cal 3 cyclists. in the space of about two weeks, were killed by drunk drivers in the daylight no less. Does that stop me from going out for fear that I am going to get run over? No. I take my chances, and I have my cell phone on.

BTW did you know that some cells have a program whereby you can be in the GPS monitor when your phone is on?

Thanks V. Good conversation to have!

RoadRaven

01-28-2006, 11:31 AM

I have pretty strong opinions about the physical fitness of kids today, but since I'm not a parent I really don't feel like I can spout them freely. I worry that a kid that grew up on XBox instead of building forts, riding bikes everywhere, and catching stickelbacks will be in control of my retirement accounts. :eek:

Hey there Yellow, spout away.
Being a parent doesnt qualify you to talk sense about kids
Not being a parent doesnt mean you cant have valid thoughts on kids

Did you know that here in NZ, thought of as an outdoorsy country, we have a higher incidence of kids with broken bones than ever before?

And it is not because the kids are doing risky things... it has been attributed to two changes in ifestyle...

One is diet... many children are eating adult "diet" diets and so have less fat, less iron and less calcium needed for strong bones and muscles

The other is lifestyle... children spend more time playing PC games or chatting online and watching TV than ever before in conjunction with parents driving them to school and not letting them play at the park/outside unless a parent is there...

Broken bones...

Trek420

01-28-2006, 01:29 PM

maillotpois "We live up hill from school. Up a 12 - 16% grade! So no way am I letting her ride down that yet!!! :D"

But just think if she could ride UP it? :) :D :cool:

doc

01-28-2006, 04:16 PM

V - great thread.
There have been several studies about outdoor play in the city. Inner city kids in impoverished neighborhoods have significantly reduced outdoor play time. Mothers report they are afraid that their child will get hurt. By which they mean shot, beaten, robbed, raped, killed etc. The studies correlated high crime areas with low outdoor activity. That's really sad. But I can hardly blame those parents.

As for the rest? I don't understand it. I live in a nice upscale suburb and the only times kids play with other kids is when it is pre-arranged as a "play date". God forbid your kid shows up with a basketball or something at someone's house unannounced. I would love it if kids did it but there is some unwritten law that it is not allowed. But at least I work hard to make sure my kids have lots of "play dates".

I work in a blue collar city. Obesity is rampant. I'm talking 280 lb 18 year old girls. Yet parent after parent admits to me that there is a TV in the kid's room, plus the gameboy and computer games. And that's all he does after school. I could go on and on.

My personal goal is to increase breast feeding. Besides obesity (which breastfeeding reduces significantly) the city where I work has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country. With blacks having a rate 3 times as high as whites. There was a national study published this month measuring childhood health in the USA. The "deep south" (NC, SC, AL, Miss, Louisiana, Ark, Tenn) scored more than one standard deviation below the rest of the country. Meanwhile, the response mothers give me when I ask why they aren't breastfeeding? "It's yucky." Breastfeeding alone reduces infant mortality in the USA (not some 3rd world country) by 22% !!! Aaaargh.

OK I degressed. If there is anyone out there who wants to talk breastfeeding, look me up!

bouncybouncy

01-28-2006, 05:04 PM

We too were just discussing...

i was not breastfed only because i came out sick...my Mom wanted to! so she did the next best thing...bought the freshest veggies, chicken, etc...and pureed them herself. i guess it worked because i am healthy (a rare stat i suppose?) my best friend treats her breast milk better than gold and who could blame her?

i also was fortunate enough to grow up on a military base (not that bad things do not go on there) but it seems that "neighborly" closeness is more abundant in that environment. my heart goes out to kids who don't experience that kind of freedom...
not too long ago was a story on the news...a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

one more recent thing i have been dealing with is the ridicule i have been given because i say i want to commute to work by BICYCLE:eek: EGADS...what am i thinking????? a typical ride is 40-60 miles (not lately unfortunately) on flat land...now i am thinking 13 miles isn't so bad (20 on beautiful days going the long way) in the hills. when we mountain bike it is usually about 20 miles...so why is 13 miles such an issue, but even more-so, why do i get so angry when people scough at my intentions? I may not be able to do it everyday right away but after a while i figure it will get easier and easier. why is it we feel so enslaved by our cars? my bosses think we are nuts for considering only owning one car (2 people, one works from home, the other plans to commute by bicycle for the most part and no kids) why is that so crazy:confused:

i ask...when did it happen? what generation was it? that decided riding a bike or walking somewhere was such a crazy idea? i see people DRIVING all the way to the mall to WALK CIRCLES...

i am babbling now...so i will just say one last thing...i am glad to hear there are people out there that are not just sitting back complaining, they are filling out the paperwork and riding alongside so their kid can experience to joy of riding his/her bike to school...and there are parents out there that are not completely overwhelmed with overprotectiveness that they let their kids go out and play...thank you! I hope it is contagious!!!

cindysue

01-28-2006, 07:45 PM

.a bus driver forced a 4 year old off her bus in a strange neighborhood cause he got on the wrong bus. the kids older brother recognized him and took him home WHAT WAS SHE THINKING????

better question: what the heck is a 4 year old doing by his/herself in the first place?

Crankin

01-29-2006, 02:34 AM

Excellent thread. I grew up in a "close in" suburb of Boston. I spent all of my time playing in the woods or just "out in the street." I remember gangs of kids on their bikes, out until it was dark. I was going into Boston on the trolley, alone or with friends when i was 12.
That said, I noticed a distinct difference when I moved to sunbelt states at 16 and 21 (Florida and AZ). No kids out on the street. No teens riding bikes. No public transportation.... This was one of the reasons we left AZ. The saddest day was when my then 3 year old went into the shrub bed in front of our house in Tempe and said, "Look Mom, I'm in the woods!" Anyway, to make a long story short, my kids, now 21 and 23 played out in the woods. They made forts. They jumped off the deck into the snow and all kinds of sort of dangerous things. When they were young we lived almost 10 miles from their school, but when we moved my youngest rode his bike to school in middle school. He saved for a mountain bike and that very act change our whole family! He started riding, got a road bike, started racing, my husband started riding, then I did. If I hadn't let him ride to school, we wouldn't be riding now. They also did electronic things, especially computer games, but we limited it. By the way, I always worked, they were in daycare, we had a nanny, etc. and I didn't breast feed. I see many of the same comments from my students, Veronica. We went on a short hike on a trail for a science lesson andout of the 75 kids on my team, I'd say about 12 knew how to act in the woods, without complaining. They are not allowed to play outside, unless it's a structured activity. My kids spent many mornings laughing at the other moms and dads on our cul de sac who drove their kids to the bus stop... when our kids were standing out in the rain or snow....

massbikebabe

01-29-2006, 09:58 AM

My oldest is going to college in Boston in the fall. She was not worried about how she would get around...she just assumed we would find her a bike small enough for her to commute on...:D

karen

betagirl

01-29-2006, 01:07 PM

Wow, interesting thread. I'm not a sociologist but a clinical psychologist in training. So I can add my 2 bits from a "professional" standpoint, but I'd rather just voice my opinion in general :D

I'm one of the approximately 1/3 of "gen X" (I just turned 30) who has decided not to have children. Many people who are either in the other 2/3's or other generations attribute this to me being "selfish." Now I may change my mind at some point in my 30's, but right now I highly doubt it. My clock isn't ticking. Anyway, is it being selfish? Maybe a little. I like my lifestyle, which includes traveling, working, going to school, hanging out with my friends, and basically not being "tied down." I enjoy children immensely when they're not mine. :D

But I have to agree with the statements about kids being raised on xbox verus bikes. Grant it, I had a TV in my room when I was a kid and grew up on "sesame street" etc. But we were really active kids. There were no such things as "play dates" or the like. We all got together in the neighborhood and ran our a**es off til it got dark. Gotta be home when the street lights come on :) I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, so it wasn't a bad area. There were still abductions, I'd guess as many as there are now. But as has been said, it wasn't all over the news as much and we didn't have "amber alerts" or the like.

I don't know if you watch the Simpsons but there's an episode when Krusty the Clown's show gets really boring so the kids all go outside to play. When they step out they have to rub their eyes and adjust to the sunshine. Unfortunately that's a very accurate social commentary, and I think it's getting worse. With the pervasive fear-mongering going on via the media, I can understand why some parents would be worried about their kids safety. So instead we're raising a generation of overweight kids with really good hand-eye coordination.

I'm sort of all over the place in this post, but I think I want to mention the story I saw recently on the news that Americans are getting more accepting of being "fat" because so many are overweight/obese. That floored me, even if I understand it psychologically. Why fight the inevitable right? Yet we pump billions of dollars into the "fad diet" market, and billions more into the healthcare system to treat adult onset diabetes, heart disease, and other "lifestyle" illness. It's sad.

If I do have kids, I plan on having them ride a bicycle out of my womb. :D

Veronica

01-29-2006, 06:02 PM

It's not selfish to not have kids - you're doing your part for the environment. :D

I wish you had to pass a test to be a parent. Or that parenting classes were mandatory - sort of like driver's ed. And I wish there were limits on how many you could have. I have a 20 year old niece, pregnant with her third. Her first is just like my brother - her dad - and quite the handful. And she's doing great with two - but what happens if she gets another one with my brother's temperment? They can barely afford two.

V.

Lise

01-29-2006, 09:35 PM

Hi, all, great thread.

I rode my bike all over as a kid, and the best feeling I have on my bike nowadays is that feeling of freedom I had, almost flying on my bike. It's one of my happiest memories. There were tons of bikes at every school and park, because everybody rode their bikes.

I work at a city health clinic in a neighborhood in Chicago where my bike would be stripped in a heartbeat if I locked it outside. I got permission from the clinic administrator to lock it downstairs in the womens' locker room. The last time I rode to work, the security guard followed me, yelling, "You can't bring a bike in here!" Jeez. If they had a safe place for more people to lock their bikes, maybe we'd see less disease. That stupid little incident aside, Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

Breastfeeding. Obese kids. Don't get me started. In as few words as possible: Rich people get richer off the misery of the poor by selling them formula, junk food, and gadgets. And how about early, early onset of menses, largely due to the hormones in milk and meat, and the high fat diets? Sad times for the human race. Our abundance has some horrible downsides.

Lise

betagirl

01-30-2006, 02:55 AM

Chicago is a bike-friendly city in a lot of ways. Our mayor, Richie-Baby-Doc-Daley-Mayor-For-Life, is a cyclist.

LOL :D

I remember the day I went to work and he ripped up Meigs overnight. I worked on the 46th floor of the Aon building and my window faced south. I looked out and saw these huge black x's on the runways. I was like WTF.....ohhhhhhhh.....nice.

FelesRidet

01-31-2006, 09:50 PM

There's a great book that came out last year by Judith Warner: Perfect Madness, Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety.

Every generation has a different culture or definition of what good parents should do. Our current culture is immersed in anxiety - about their childrens' education, their future prospects, their safety. As a result, we have become hyper-concerned about micromanaging every aspect of our children's lives.

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

doc

02-01-2006, 04:50 AM

It has often startled me when I got disapproving looks for: letting my children play in the mud, go without shoes, dress themselves (badly). Now my kids are older and still the mothers in my scout troop freak out if their daughters get their shoes wet!

Hear Hear!! My sister's theory is "A dirty boy is a happy boy" and I'm sure she's right. She has two sons. I have daughters who are naturally averse to mud. So I think the female corollary has something to do with how badly they dress themselves and their rat's nest of long hair that they fixed themselves. I am sure people who don't have kids look at them and think "What an awful mother those girls have. She doesn't care about their appearance..." Sensible parents who have been there certainly laugh to themselves and know the kids dressed and groomed themselves because Mommy was absolutely not allowed to help!

I can't imagine what the anxiety ridden mother's say!!!

bouncybouncy

02-01-2006, 06:47 AM

HAHA!!! I am just laughing thinking about seeing kids in their "outfits" they picked out themselves...AND MOMMY DIDN'T HELP:D they are usually so proud of themselves!!!!

I do not have kids but have seen this many times and it makes me want to be a kid again so i would have an excuse to wear what i end up wearing sometimes...haha

Trek420

02-09-2006, 12:22 PM

vaguely related, slightly OT: rode to work today, I'd wondered who belongs to the matching baby-blue cruisers I see locked at the BART station. So today I found out.

As I was heading for the elevator the young couple rode up, they seem cheery and happy to be riding to BART on cute matching cruisers with their helmets securely on tight...backwards!!

I smiled, waved, pointed at my helmet, said "your helmet, it's on backwards". My smile was returned but I'm not sure they understood English, hope the visual (point, motions turn hat around) was enough. :) ;) :cool:

DirtDiva

02-09-2006, 01:54 PM

But that's the way all the cool kids are wearing them these days. :p

Lise

02-09-2006, 02:12 PM

But that's the way all the cool kids are wearing them these days. :p
HA!

I see kids (and their parents) wearing their helmets tipped back at a jaunty angle, and think, "But how cool is major head trauma?!" :eek:

mimitabby

04-16-2008, 06:02 AM

I just read a blog about this:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/11/new-york-sun-column.html

Lenore Skenazy wrote a piece for the April 4 edition of the New York Sun about letting her 9-year-old son find his way home from downtown NYC using the subway system. Many people were upset with her.

Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.

jobob

04-16-2008, 06:07 AM

Rats.

I was thinking to myself "cool, betagirl is back!" but then I realized this thread was over 2 years old. :(

Trek420

04-16-2008, 06:14 AM

I kinda bumped it up. A new TE'er brought up the experience of being mistaken for a homeless person because she was riding a bike

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=22674

I remembered this was a good discussion of the issue, an old fave thread. :p

Sorry for the confusion this has caused. :rolleyes:

mimitabby

04-16-2008, 06:17 AM

Geonz

04-16-2008, 06:39 AM

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/

One of the things that I learned as a lifeguard was that there were lots of children being reared oh, rather differently that we'd been reared... and that in all probability this had been happening for generations and society was still plugging along.

Crankin

04-16-2008, 07:56 AM

Mimi, I have had that said to me, too. And, it's not true. I raised my boys the way I was raised. If I had had girls, nothing would have changed. Two years later, my kids are still perfectly responsible adults who had a lot of freedom when they were kids!

From the bad working mother,

Robyn

mimitabby

04-16-2008, 08:10 AM

Jolt

04-16-2008, 08:29 AM

Maybe one possible solution for some working moms (those who work part-time would have the easiest time doing this) would be to have a sort of co-op with other moms from their neighborhood, church etc. where they work different days and switch off watching each others' kids on days they're not working. Then the kids can play together and have more freedom than they'd have in a regular day care, and parents wouldn't have to pay for child care because it would be a bartering type arrangement. Obviously this would be easier with some jobs than others (I could see it working very well for nurses, for example, but it would be harder with less flexible hours). What do you think?

cyclinnewbie

04-16-2008, 03:33 PM

Sorry about that, i couldn't resist. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I tried very hard to raise my sons with freedom... and most people said to me; "welll, if they were girls you would have done it differently" :(

Oh Mimi....I have dealt with this very thing!! I have tried really really hard to be equal with my kids (son is 13 and BIG, daughter is 10 and tiny...64 lbs and almost 11 years old)...I think that sometimes you cannot treat them equally. I feel I can send my son out on his bike with his buddies and they can ride up and down the road and I don't need to worry (he is also into martial arts, so has the skills to fend off an attack). My daughter, however, is very small as I noted above, and while she's a tough little chick, she's still a little chick, which sometimes will make you more of a target. I can say this because I'm also a little chick, and it has made me a target. She is not interested in learning how to defend herself (too young I think), so would have to depend on her brain (which is good actually!!:)). I guess what I'm clumsily trying to say is that I'm not comfortable letting her and her friends ride up and down the road because she's a tiny girl....as much as it pains me to say that. So much for women's lib and equality and all that! She's still my baby.

shootingstar

04-16-2008, 07:52 PM

For many of my relatives from China (primarily rural areas), they want to buy a car within a few years after they immigrate here.

A bike is so passe to them. Then later...maybe 2 decades, they realize they are getting abit chubby...their health not as good.

Since my family in Canada couldn't afford to buy a car until I was 15 yrs. old (I am the eldest), I did genuinely associate carlessness, with poverty for a long time.

As a child, I just thought it was abit of a hassle to walk /take bus, particularily in not-so-great weather. The best thing in such situations, is that the parents don't make a super big deal about not having a car. Then children grow up not too self-conscious /whiny about being carless.

I do remember up to gr. 8, the bike racks at school were full of parked bikes.
High school....forget it. Of course, everyone is hell-bent on getting a driver's license, which did include me at the time.

madscot13

04-16-2008, 08:48 PM

my parents tried to raise me as a prissy girl- can we say backfire? I think my older brothers had too much say in my upbinging.

ps I am a wonderful daughter.

Trek420

04-17-2008, 06:34 AM

Since my family in Canada couldn't afford to buy a car until I was 15 yrs. old (I am the eldest), I did genuinely associate carlessness, with poverty for a long time.

How can that be? Have you seen the price of wool? ;) You have to be rich to do this sport.

That's the odd thing about cycling. Some equate it with poverty but others .... in my poor to lower-workingclass-semi-affordable Bay Area neighborhood I had to stop riding my road bike to work. There seemed such a reaction when I moved here of "what are you doing here". With my commutermobile they don't bat an eye, just another carless person on a mountainbike nobody notices the custom paint and Mavic wheels.

Before when I lived 2 miles away but in the hills even non-cyclists knew "nice bike, nice day for a ride".

Hard question to phrase but it seems part of the issue with getting people to ride is class issues. I've often felt we must show our so called invisible cyclists, working class that "there is a cycling community, you are part of it, this is how we ride. Ride with us" :)

mimitabby

04-17-2008, 06:57 AM

Hard question to phrase but it seems part of the issue with getting people to ride is class issues. I've often felt we must show our so called invisible cyclists, working class that "there is a cycling community, you are part of it, this is how we ride. Ride with us" :)

This is an issue that we were confronted with on our ride Saturday.
we were in a rough neighborhood and a guy about our age, but who had definitely had a tougher life than us;was walking across the street with his dog, and his beater bike. He deliberately slowed down so that we would have to pause for him and told us to wait, smiling. I smiled back and said hi how ya doing, my husband was disgruntled but let me take the lead that time, because we both know that we need to be allies with guys like him, not adversaries.

TryToKeepUp

04-17-2008, 07:38 AM

Kinda sad that kids don't ride bikes to school anymore. Nowadays I hear that parents are afraid the bikes will get stolen! (and they do) Whatever happened to honesty in our country? :confused: :confused: :confused:

My professor was telling me about a recent trip to China. she told us how she noticed none of the many bikes she saw were locked up at all. When she asked a native why there were no locks weren't people worried their bikes would be stolen. the native replied,"Chinese people do not steal."

shootingstar

04-19-2008, 06:27 AM

It's interesting to see the reaction of university-educated foreign workers that we have direct from Philippines, India...who are from countries..where cycling is still associated with less money /class...

There are 6 Filipinos, perfectly healthy...who wait around to get a car ride from near where I get off at the bus stop in my long commute. Their car ride is to the work site...it is a 15 minute walk. One of them thought our company should as a courtesy, arrange shuttle bus service. The business manager told them to walk or bike..which offended them.

Now, it's not the prettiest walk, but getting better each month with more paved road and sidewalk for walking as construction progresses. You walk along and face some construction cranes, do see a whole line of mountains ahead of you as sun rises.

On the other hand, there are some German female workers who bike down that road...some without helmets.

There are times I do feel a twinge of low-class whatever...since I am probably one of the very few employees (probably less than 5) out of 200 employees in total, who walk to a bus stop to take a bus. Such twinges come when the weather is wet and it's muddy out. Stupid, eh?