My doctor....mumble grumble mumble

[Catrin]

My doctor isn't happy with the progress of my neck since my whiplash injury last year. He mountain bikes himself and flat out told me that I need to seriously consider stopping. Not stopping riding, or my gym work, but stopping mountain biking. Given my ride/crash/injury ratio over the last two seasons it becomes hard to argue with him. He is especially concerned with my cervical spine arthritis combined with the bulging disk plus the whiplash that hasn't healed completely yet. I can't handle any more neck injuries on the bike...

This is heart breaking to even consider - when it is working it is so much fun! I need to balance out prudence and fun... I won't make any immediate decision either way, but he has my attention and he hasn't ever gone here before. I love my Jamis, the thought of never riding her again is very hard to contemplate.

[ny biker]

If the issue is crash probability, you could still ride the bike, just not on singletrack.

[OakLeaf]

:( :( I'm sorry to hear that. I'd take his advice seriously, but also look for another opinion. Winter's coming - good time for a break, see if you can get it to heal better, maybe try a different approach (I think you mentioned you've exhausted insurance benefits for this year, the New Year is only a couple of months away which it could take that long to get an appointment anyway). Hang in there (((((Catrin)))))

[emily_in_nc]

If the issue is crash probability, you could still ride the bike, just not on singletrack.

What she said. The first year I started mountain biking, I rode single-track and fell a lot. I was always banging myself up -- whiplash, messed up shoulder, etc. etc. It just never seemed to end, and some of these injuries took months or more to heal. It was fun at times but terrifying at other times, and to get my skills to the point where I wouldn't fall as much would involve more practice and even more falls. Since I'd already recovered from a serious pelvic fracture on my road bike a couple of years earlier, I just didn't want to keep injuring myself.

So I switched to riding fire roads, gravel roads, and easier double-track trails. Some still had some serious hills and gorgeous woodland scenery, but were just not technical. Never fell again over the last two years I rode my MTB in the US. Might be an option for you and means you don't have to give up your beloved Jamis!

Keep us posted...

[Catrin]

My Jamis is a size small for me - this was deliberate to take care of some fit issues, it would take some expense to make it comfortable for road use and that might not be easily done. Feels great on the trails, terrible on the road...

Oakleaf - I am thinking that perhaps it might be a good idea to find a good chiro in January. My insurance won't cover that, but I think my flexible spending benefits would - but I have to wait for next year for that. For now I think I am off the mountain bike, and there is some relief to that thought (along with sadness) so I take that as a sign that I am doing the right thing.

In the end, if this does become a permanent solution, it would cost far less to turn my Dakar XC into a commuter than it would be to buy another bike.

[Catrin]

So I switched to riding fire roads, gravel roads, and easier double-track trails. Some still had some serious hills and gorgeous woodland scenery, but were just not technical. Never fell again over the last two years I rode my MTB in the US. Might be an option for you and means you don't have to give up your beloved Jamis!

Keep us posted...

I would love to find places like this to ride...and there aren't many to choose from. I know there are some really steep gravel roads in southern Indiana. They are so remote that I wouldn't want to ride them by myself. This doesn't mean that there aren't other places I can ride - this is a good idea. I was focusing on not being able to mountain bike - but there is more than one style of riding. Single-track isn't the only option - thank you! Somehow I think she would be sad if she never got to see dirt/gravel/grass...something that wasn't paved!

[goldfinch]

Oakleaf - I am thinking that perhaps it might be a good idea to find a good chiro in January.

Please, discuss with your doctor in detail about whether you should see a chiropractor and what exactly they can do for you. Maybe a PT is a better choice.

Sorry about the cycling and I hope you can find some nice dirt roads to explore next year. If not, come visit me!

[Irulan]

Some docs hate chiropractors, or don't see the benefit of cross discipline treatment, and other that welcome the "go with what works" approach. I know many pt's that dis chiropractic which is unfortunate for the good chiropractors out there. Personally I welcome multi disciplinary treatment options. If you know of someone highly recommend... you never know, it might be what you need. I think some MDs are really narrow minded about this kind of thing and think if you can't write a scrip for it, or operate on it, it can't be fixed.

[TigerMom]

Catrin...That is sad. The only up side that I can think of is that at least your doctor didn't say "no" to bike riding of all types.
_____________________________________________
2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle
2010 Santa Cruz Juliana with R kit and Crampon pedals
2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle (sold)

[Catrin]

It is the crash potential that is the problem with mountain biking. To get better I have to push harder and ride more often - but the harder and faster I ride the harder I crash which means I hurt myself more and it also increases the chance that I will snap my neck again...and that really wouldn't be good. I've hurt myself enough that now I second guess myself which makes crashing more likely. I won't go to spinning class because THOSE old Schwinns stretches me out too much and causes cramping in those neck muscles - which is the only thing that really does that.

I was in PT for close to 6 months when the original mountain bike fall caused the whiplash - before the crash I had no idea how bad my neck actually was. All in all it is much better than it once was (the whiplash), but they tell me it can take another year or more to fully heal. Interestingly enough my work in the gym appears to be helping as well.

Hopefully there are other places I can ride my mountain bike. Personally I don't know of anything locally that isn't single-track, but that doesn't mean something doesn't exist. This doesn't have to be a permanent decision, but it feels like the best one for now. Sad :(

[ridebikeme]

Catrin: I too would talk with your DR about the chiro, perhaps there's another alternative if indeed he doesn't approve??

I can certainly understand your disappointment, but at this point, I wouldn't make any snap decisions until you have had this conversation with your Dr. As others have mentioned, there is lots of interest in riding dirt roads and lots of excitement in the midwest about this... lots of races etc... I can give you more info about that if you're interested. I also would check with your LBS and see what they say about dirt roads, perhaps there is someone there that has more info or that can point you in a direction. There also might be some maps available for you to check out as well???

I realize that riding gravel might not have the 'excitement' factor, but it is a lot of fun, something different and can give you some of what you are looking for. Here in Maine, we have thousands of miles of dirt roads just in my area, and we have all been riding them since we were children... and 'yes' that is a very long time HA!

Have a good weekend and hope the conversation with LBS will build some excitement about something new!

Have a gr

[Catrin]

I had this conversation with my LBS back when I first got my mountain bike and wanted to ride less technical routes before hitting single track, there isn't much... However there are gravel roads in southern Indiana, I just need to find a gravel road riding partner. These roads are very remote than the my single-track I've been riding, and just because they didn't know of any other options doesn't mean there aren't any.

Part of me wants to ride in the Death March (very early March). This is a gravel road partner-required race that is more like orienteering on mountain/cross bikes. "I" wouldn't be racing :)

Thanks for the encouragement everyone, it is appreciated. I will admit that this has all been in the back of my mind for a couple of months during my recovery period from each crash, I just didn't want to go there.

[OakLeaf]

Well, I'm not going to say anything negative about chiropractic in general, because I had a really good experience with chiropractic for my *last* neck injury. But I wasted a whole lot of time with another DC this summer, and she was the one my PCP recommended, too.

I don't want to put too much stock in the treatments I'm getting now since I've only had three of each so far - but the thing about it is, everything is connected. With a complex injury like mine or yours, it may be that working on the connections themselves is the best approach. Most chiropractors don't pay much attention to fascia at all. Orthopods, next to none; PTs, it depends. Acupuncturists, particularly motor point acupuncturists, and DOs who practice Sutherland's techniques, work directly on the fascia. This is the approach my sister recommended to me and I only wish now that I'd asked her to begin with. When I first got hurt, it just didn't seem like it was going to snowball like it did.

I did a quick google and there isn't anyone in all of Indiana certified in sports medicine acupuncture. Or Ohio, for that matter - the LAc I'm seeing now is just studying for her certification and incorporating the techniques she's learned so far. I could ask her if she's met anyone from your area in the seminars who's also studying motor point. But there are several DOs near you who practice Sutherland's techniques (http://www.cranialacademy.org/search.html) (ligamentous articular strain and cranial osteopathy). I think you said your insurance won't cover OMM, but with a FSA, can't you use that for anything that you could take as a health care tax deduction?



Also along the lines of everything is connected ... we survivors of trauma have to be extra alert, I think. I've started back into psychotherapy and I'm finally realizing how much old, old emotion I've been holding in the diaphragm and abdominal fascia ... which pulls my ribcage out, which pulls my shoulders out, which pull my neck out ......... Everything is connected. My LMT has a proverb painted on her wall: "The muscles hold the tears the eyes refuse to shed."

[Sky King]

This is our neighbor Trailhead Chiropractic (http://www.trailheadclinic.com/) Nate is an avid Mountain Biker and very, very helpful. I know he wouldn't mind you emailing him. He may know someone in your area and he may just have some simple exercises for you.

I am doing some with a resistance band to help my neck/shoulders, easy and helping too

[goldfinch]

Some docs hate chiropractors, or don't see the benefit of cross discipline treatment, and other that welcome the "go with what works" approach. I know many pt's that dis chiropractic which is unfortunate for the good chiropractors out there. Personally I welcome multi disciplinary treatment options. If you know of someone highly recommend... you never know, it might be what you need. I think some MDs are really narrow minded about this kind of thing and think if you can't write a scrip for it, or operate on it, it can't be fixed.

I think that many rather than being narrow minded, most doctors just want to follow the evidence. There is some things where chiropractic can be helpful. There many other things that have no evidence that supports effectiveness and with neck stuff, there is some risk as well.

[thekarens]

I don't know how helpful this is, but here we have a lot of state parks that you can mountain bike in and a lot of them are very tame. Mostly dirt or gravel trails that don't involve anything technical. I think if I could no longer run single track I would still enjoy these trails as I really like being out in the woods/nature.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Another option might be a cross-bike :)

[indysteel]

Gosh, Catrin. I'm really sorry that it might come to this. Again, I'd pursue further conversations with your doctor as to other treatment options. Ultimately, though, it sounds like you're just going to have to weigh the risks with the rewards--and that's admittedly hard to do because it's hard to really quantify the risks. Are there ways you can increase your skill level? I know it costs $$, but perhaps in time, you could save for a bit more private instruction.

Remember that even without mountain biking, you can still spend time in the woods. I know hiking isn't nearly the adrenaline rush, but it's still nice to be among the trees and, obviously, it's a lot less risky. And maybe trail running is in your future.....

[Catrin]

I think that many rather than being narrow minded, most doctors just want to follow the evidence. There is some things where chiropractic can be helpful. There many other things that have no evidence that supports effectiveness and with neck stuff, there is some risk as well.

I am going to take my time and consider my next steps. It IS true that all of the crazy stuff I do at the gym appears to be helping. Thankfully my trainer is highly skilled/educated/experienced and he is very careful with my cervical spine. He certainly pays attention to my cervical spine and pushes me, but safely. I can tell the difference now from when we started.


I don't know how helpful this is, but here we have a lot of state parks that you can mountain bike in and a lot of them are very tame. Mostly dirt or gravel trails that don't involve anything technical. I think if I could no longer run single track I would still enjoy these trails as I really like being out in the woods/nature.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Another option might be a cross-bike :)

This is what I need to find, for now. I don't know how much of this exists in our state, or in my area. All of the focus has been on building single-track. That doesn't, however, mean that there aren't other choices. I just need to start asking around and see what I can find.


Gosh, Catrin. I'm really sorry that it might come to this. Again, I'd pursue further conversations with your doctor as to other treatment options. Ultimately, though, it sounds like you're just going to have to weight the risks with the rewards--and that's admittedly hard to do because it's hard to really quantify the risks. Are there ways you can increase your skill level? I know it costs $$, but perhaps in time, you could save for a bit more private instruction.

Remember that even without mountain biking, you can still spend time in the woods. I know hiking isn't nearly the adrenal rush, but it's still nice to be among the trees and, obviously, it's a lot less risky. And maybe trail running is in your future.....

Good thoughts Indy. It is very hard to quantify the risk. My doctor was quite blunt over the odds of permanent damage if I snap my neck again - but of course there isn't anything to say that it will ever happen again. The problem is that in order to increase my skills I need to ride more/harder and that is when I start crashing hard because I am riding faster (though not beyond myself). It is part of the process and that is the problem. There is always geo-caching I suppose, and if I can get this knee worked out perhaps trail running. I am not giving up on mountain bike yet, time enough to decide that next season. For now I will just consider it a "break" from single-track and I will start looking for less technical places to ride ;)

Thanks to everyone for your support and comments, it is very much appreciated. I think it is easier to hear at the end of October than it would have been in June. He may have actually said something similar in late spring but I probably wasn't willing to listen :o

[emily_in_nc]

I don't know how helpful this is, but here we have a lot of state parks that you can mountain bike in and a lot of them are very tame. Mostly dirt or gravel trails that don't involve anything technical. I think if I could no longer run single track I would still enjoy these trails as I really like being out in the woods/nature.

Yes, that is what I ended up doing when I decided my skills just weren't going to be up to the rigors of single-track. I would ride the gravel roads and some nice hilly double-track trails at Umstead State Park in Raleigh. It's great for newbie or non-technical mountain bikers. Very aerobic, but not the switchbacks, roots, rocks and such of single-track. I also lived on a long gravel road, and we had an easy single-track trail on our own property. But mostly I rode at Umstead. Such a nice setting and a great workout as well. I miss it!

I hope you can find someplace to ride, Catrin! I know some states are better than others for having a lot of good gravel roads, but you might want to look into the state park option if you have any relatively close to you.

[Catrin]

In Indiana, at least, almost all of the single-track is found in state parks - and it is the only place typically where bikes are allowed. I am going to talk to some people I know who have been mountain biking in this state for a very long time - if there are less technical places to go they will know. I need to check and see if bikes are allowed on the fire roads in my favorite park. I could be mistaken about not being allowed there.

[Crankin]

I can't add anything to the technical discussion of neck issues, but I pretty much was put in the same place by my osteoporosis. No one told me to stop mountain biking, but it was pretty much the same as you. I'm wimpy and uncoordinated (not that you are), but I love being in the woods. The one year I really improved my skills (2005-06), I spent a lot of time in the woods, but I felt guilty about losing time on the road. I got my wake up call when I went on a group mtb ride and I was humiliated in front of a lot of people, some of whom knew I was a ride leader :eek:. I realized I wasn't willing to put the time in to get better. I am also pretty risk aversive and while I liked the idea of mountain biking, I really was not the best candidate to do it.
The last time I used my mountain bike was on a dirt road in Maine's Great North Woods, 2 years ago. It was fun and not as scary, but still scarier than being on the road, to me. That made up my mind. My mountain bike was sold to someone who will really use it.

[ny biker]

In terms of chiropractors, I found that going to one helped my back problems (sacroiliac issues), but a few years later when I started having neck pain, the chiropractor made things worse. (Eventually I figured out that my posture while sitting at work caused most of the neck problems.) My trainer's brother is a chiropractor, and his advice was that they can be helpful, but they can't cure everything, though some of them think they can.

In terms of places to ride off-road, there is a mountain biking club in this area that is a great resource for finding places to ride. They are affiliated with IMBA. Maybe there is a local club in your area. Also look into regular cycling clubs -- one of the clubs I belong to primarily do road rides but they do have a few people who lead mountain bike rides and know all the trails around here.

[Catrin]

I had a good talk with my favorite fitter and one of his wrenches this morning about all of this. There are certainly gravel and paved road options in different part of the states, some of which has dirt roads involved. My bike will need some fit-related modifications to enable this different riding style but it will be far less expensive than buying a new bike - and that full suspension will come in handy! So I've got fall/early winter to take care of this and to start scouting my riding options and to give my neck a chance to further heal. There really aren't any options in state parks, but there are in the Hoosier National Forest, and there are some counties that have a combination of gravel/dirt/asphalt routes that will take me into some pretty scenic areas. I will need to find a riding partner for some of these areas as they are quite remote - but this gives me less technical off-road riding opportunities.

This really does feel like the best approach, and I am excited about it. Sad to be leaving single-track, and it may not be permanent, but it feels like the right choice. There ARE several gravel race/events in southern Indiana that I've been wanting to participate in. My fitter told me that out west you can take fire-roads pretty much wherever you want to go, though that isn't the case in Indiana.

[emily_in_nc]

Glad you found some options, Catrin! Unfortunately, sometimes injuries do require adaptations. I am not sure I'll ever be able to do full centuries or touring again since fracturing my pelvis (though I am game to try both -- training will determine whether my body can handle it). But I've learned to be thankful for what I can do, which is still way more than most folks are even willing to try. Right?! :D

[Catrin]

Glad you found some options, Catrin! Unfortunately, sometimes injuries do require adaptations. I am not sure I'll ever be able to do full centuries or touring again since fracturing my pelvis (though I am game to try both -- training will determine whether my body can handle it). But I've learned to be thankful for what I can do, which is still way more than most folks are even willing to try. Right?! :D

I agree entirely. I knew last spring when I got back on the mtb after my injury last October that there was a chance that I would need to do this, but I wanted to try. I tried to break that vicious skill/injury cycle but it didn't improve and the fun isn't worth a possible permanent injury. What's the definition of insanity? Keep doing things the same way and expecting a different outcome. Perhaps in another year I will try it again, we shall see. Now I just need to find a riding buddy for remote gravel road riding ;)

[jessmarimba]

This is going to be an odd and somewhat random suggestion...but perhaps you can spend a day or so with a bike clinician learning "how" to fall? Perhaps in one of those trampoline-gyms, or something? Most people instinctively tense up when they fall (which would exacerbate any whiplash effect), not to mention throw their arms out for protection (BIG no-no!). I remember in college gymnastics, I spent almost as much time on the tumble-track learning how to fall out of failing stunts as I did learning to do them correctly.

Now, with my bike wreck, I was in WAY over my head speed-wise so the training didn't do much good, but with the number of times I've fallen roller-skating, ice-skating, snowboarding, skiing, gymnastics, cycling, etc...never even come close to a broken wrist. The last descending mountain bike clinic I went to, our instructor demonstrated falling a few times (basically just threw himself at the ground) and was completely unhurt. Just a thought.

[Irulan]

my concern is, why falling so much? Once you've been through a skills clinic or two, the incident of falls should be signification reduced. At least, it was for me and many of the gals I ride with. Unless it is a "go big or go home" kind of thing.

[Catrin]

I smell a new bike...;)

No, no new bike. Some modifications to my mountain bike will be in place by spring however :)


my concern is, why falling so much? Once you've been through a skills clinic or two, the incident of falls should be signification reduced. At least, it was for me and many of the gals I ride with. Unless it is a "go big or go home" kind of thing.

I know...at least part of it is conditioning by crashing/injuring myself so often - I second guess myself which makes it more likely to fall. It's simply become a vicious cycle that needs to stop before I do serious damage to my cervical or thoracic spine. I did crash far fewer times this year, but in all but one crash (the endo) I wound up off the bike for a month or more due to one injury or another (even though I was able to ride off the trail each time, thankfully). Because of the crashes and recover period I just can't stay on the bike long enough to get better :o :(

If/when my neck improves than I may reconsider, but right now this just isn't a good combination with my cervical spine as it is. I may simply just not be a good candidate for single-track at this stage of my life. It really makes really me sad to type that, but I have to consider that.