Tired of the small sizing....arrrrrg!

[Wasp]

When did North Americian women become flat chested?. And why???? Are the top brands making clothing so small?. It seems to me that the clothing made overseas is not taking into account that most of us North American women have breasts larger than 32-A.
A lot of active wear type clothing seems to be geared towards very small women, which is absurd when the "average" size of a North American woman is size 14.
I have been looking for a high visibility water proof jacket to wear on my road bike. I can get jackets to fit around the hips, but they come to a screeching halt when they hit the girls. I even tried men's jackets on, and the sleeves and torso are way to long. Anyone know where I can find a jacket that will fit a women with breasts? I have looked at the plus size jackets on TE, but non are the high visibility killer yellow I'm looking for. (got to live up to my name:)
Thanks.

[pinsonp2]

Aerotechdesigns.com have a couple. I had an LBS order the LG Geminix jacket for me and it works out ok. Good luck in your search.

P2

[deeannef]

I hear you. You should try tall and big breasted. Fit nice on top, but look like you are pregnant on the bottom.

[Shellyrides]

Tall, big chested and over weight here. I pick up 3x sporting wear clothing for women and it looks like it might fit my 12 year old!

[ny biker]

Interesting. My jerseys and workout tanktops are all too big in the chest.

[Eden]

Speaking as a 5ft 32a, I'd certainly love it if that were actually true, but the reality is there's precious little out there that doesn't fit me like a bag....

[Crankin]

I was just going to say the same. I'm a 32A/B, 5' 1" and only certain brands have x small jerseys and shorts. I can actually get more cycling wear to fit me than regular, petite sized clothes at this point. What petite person has an inseam of 30 inches????

[shootingstar]

Methinks certain cycling wear lines are sleeker/tighter in overall design, ie. Castelli, etc. I would agree that cycling wear fits me better than other types of clothing, in general.

There are lots of larger sizes...are you willing to wear men's designs that look unisex? I also think it depends which region of North America. In general, it takes more effort for me to find a small size to fit me in cycling wear...usually the number of garments in my size is 1-2 on the rack in a line. Not 5-6 of same size in same line/style. I'm also 5'1" like Crankin and equally small.

I'm sorry I disagree terribly...there's also lack of clothing that accommodates petite sized women....I'm here in Canada's prairie area and MOST definitely it's for larger women. Not like VAncouver nor Toronto. Maybe what all of us are complaining might be lack of choice in our size for different types of clothing.

[Owlie]

I'm pretty sure that no matter what size you are, you're going to have a hard time finding clothes that fit properly. ;)

Bear in mind, too, that cycling clothing is probably cut based on patterns for the women who are essentially pro racers, and therefore leaner than the average woman.

[Veronica]

What petite person has an inseam of 30 inches????

I'm 5'5" and a lot of my pants are petite.

I think manufacturers assume you'll be wearing 2 inch heels.

Veronica

[amb]

I've always been flat chested! :)

Being 5-7, 132# and 32A/B, I REALLY wish there was a size "smedium"! I need small for my frame & small chest but a medium for length. Forever in between sizes.... I think Owlie's right - no matter what size you are, nothing fits properly.

I will say I do have a PI high viz yellow jacket that is tight even on my chest when not in the riding position. So maybe their stuff does run small in the chest. I obviously never have that problem!

[SadieKate]

What petite person has an inseam of 30 inches????Me. I'm 5' 3 3/8" and wear 32" inseam jeans with my Danskos (1.5" sole). Sporthills XC pants are perfect in a size med with the long inseam. I can't wear petite pants because the legs are too short but a lot of misses size pants have too long a crotch.

I've read a few articles lately that the average cup size for American women is increasing.

I feel for the manufacturers and retailers trying to design and stock women's clothing.

[winddance]

I've always been flat chested! :)

Being 5-7, 132# and 32A/B, I REALLY wish there was a size "smedium"! I need small for my frame & small chest but a medium for length. Forever in between sizes.... I think Owlie's right - no matter what size you are, nothing fits properly.

I totally agree - I don't know who the manufacturers use as fit models, but they have little in common with me! I end up with the shoulders and bust fitting in a small (110#, 32D, thanks mom!) and then tons of excess fabric through my torso. XS are generally too short and can be too tight in the shoulders or bust.

In a fit of frustration, I did get measured for a retailer's size database a couple of times. They were astonished that I was so "curvy." Yes, because ALL women don't have hips, butts, boobs, etc., regardless of dimensions. :rolleyes:

I have a shebeest great divide jacket (http://www.amazon.com/Shebeest-Womens-Great-Divide-Jacket/dp/B002CQV8V0). It accommodates the chest and tapers to the waist. It fit so well that I impulse-bought it at a gear swap and haven't regretted that decision.

[Wasp]

Methinks certain cycling wear lines are sleeker/tighter in overall design, ie. Castelli, etc. I would agree that cycling wear fits me better than other types of clothing, in general.

There are lots of larger sizes...are you willing to wear men's designs that look unisex? I also think it depends which region of North America. In general, it takes more effort for me to find a small size to fit me in cycling wear...usually the number of garments in my size is 1-2 on the rack in a line. Not 5-6 of same size in same line/style. I'm also 5'1" like Crankin and equally small.

I'm sorry I disagree terribly...there's also lack of clothing that accommodates petite sized women....I'm here in Canada's prairie area and MOST definitely it's for larger women. Not like VAncouver nor Toronto. Maybe what all of us are complaining might be lack of choice in our size for different types of clothing.

I'm Canadian as well, and most larger name brand women clothing stores usually have a fairly extensive petite section. I occasionally wear petite size as I tend to be short waisted and they fit better torso wise, but my biggest problem is getting the chest area to fit. I wish it was too big, at least then i would have the option of taking it in.
I'm not against wearing something unisex.....I just want it to fit and be comfortable wearing it, and avoid the dreaded squished uniboob look.

[Wasp]

I totally agree - I don't know who the manufacturers use as fit models, but they have little in common with me! I end up with the shoulders and bust fitting in a small (110#, 32D, thanks mom!) and then tons of excess fabric through my torso. XS are generally too short and can be too tight in the shoulders or bust.

In a fit of frustration, I did get measured for a retailer's size database a couple of times. They were astonished that I was so "curvy." Yes, because ALL women don't have hips, butts, boobs, etc., regardless of dimensions. :rolleyes:

I have a shebeest great divide jacket (http://www.amazon.com/Shebeest-Womens-Great-Divide-Jacket/dp/B002CQV8V0). It accommodates the chest and tapers to the waist. It fit so well that I impulse-bought it at a gear swap and haven't regretted that decision.

That jacket is SWEET!!!!!! It's exactly what I'm looking for. Have you worn it in cold weather? Just wondering how warm it would be. I bought the Shebeest winter vibe, love the jacket but not so crazy about How it fits across the chest as its tighter than I like.

[Crankin]

Veronica, the petite pants of late have to be hemmed, even when I am wearing 2 inch heels. I mean clothes that I would wear to work, or out at night. I can sometimes get away with no hemming in my current, ridiculous vanity size, but if I go up to my former normal size, the pants are way too long. Are people getting that much taller?

[shootingstar]

I'm Canadian as well, and most larger name brand women clothing stores usually have a fairly extensive petite section. I occasionally wear petite size as I tend to be short waisted and they fit better torso wise, but my biggest problem is getting the chest area to fit. I wish it was too big, at least then i would have the option of taking it in.
I'm not against wearing something unisex.....I just want it to fit and be comfortable wearing it, and avoid the dreaded squished uniboob look.

When I look at the petite offerings now in fashion store..many styles look "old". Then the other extreme too teeny-boppy-near sexy wear which I'm not interested.

When I wear any cycling jacket, I look as if I don't have boobs. (Shrug). Yes a Pearl Izumi jacket does that and I like more form fitting jackets. Keeps the jacket from ballooning in the wind. I really doubt people look at me for that (boobs). They're just looking at me on bike or notice me walking around in my gear....because there aren't many Asian women cycling in our city (although our population is growing noticeably). Now that I've said the latter, I suddenly realize how true of what I just said. Quite different from the other 2 Canadian cities.

[Sky King]

One would think we would all learn - when we actually find something that fits well we should always buy two! Of course, I rarely do that thus most of my bike gear is somewhat tired looking.
I did find a great long sleeved jersey last year from maloja -but alas the store that sold them is no longer. I do see that backcountry.com may have them in stock. HOWEVER they run small, I bought a large and I am typically a size 6 with a 34b/c chest

[OakLeaf]

What I've read is that just as "Misses" are made for women 5'7", Petites are made for women 5'4". Anyone much shorter than that has to have things shortened, but it's easier to shorten clothing than to lengthen it.

Just in general ... mass produced clothes are just that, mass produced. Human bodies ain't. Each of us probably has two or three brands that fits us pretty well, and nothing else even comes close. Hope you find "your" brands soon.

[SadieKate]

I also think that slacks and jean, as in non-clothing clothing, have to run longer because the fashion trend is platform high heels. To paraphrase Oak, you can't make something longer.

[Wasp]

One would think we would all learn - when we actually find something that fits well we should always buy two! Of course, I rarely do that thus most of my bike gear is somewhat tired looking.
I did find a great long sleeved jersey last year from maloja -but alas the store that sold them is no longer. I do see that backcountry.com may have them in stock. HOWEVER they run small, I bought a large and I am typically a size 6 with a 34b/c chest

Your a size 6 and due to the small sizing you had to purchase a large ?? WOW!!.
So what do women size 8 and up wear?. That's my point, the sizes tend to be small. Funny how the price stays the same considering there getting away with using less fabric and call it a large.

[Crankin]

My experience is that everything is getting bigger. Way bigger.
The only things that run consistently small are extremely expensive designer brands or things made in Europe that really are more in line with what sizes "used" to be. By that, I mean, my five foot tall, 100 pound mom consistently wore a size 4 or 6. And that's what I wear if I try something on in Italy. I come home and wear a size 0. Really???
Shooting Star, I agree. Most petite styles look "old" and I definitely don't want to shop in the junior department. I buy most of my clothes at Banana Republic, the Gap, and a little at J Crew. Mostly classic stuff, with a nod to style. I used to buy tons at the Loft, as it is the only store near my house, but the clothes seem poorly made and they keep getting bigger and trashy looking at the same time!

[shootingstar]

One would think we would all learn - when we actually find something that fits well we should always buy two! Of course, I rarely do that thus most of my bike gear is somewhat tired looking.


This is what I have done if I feel like spending money-- I have 4 jerseys that are 2 same designs. Fine by me and on sale. Whereas it took me several years to find a pair of jeans that I liked. I paid $100.00. I liked them so much that 6 months later (at least I waited, ok?) and bought another pair. They ended up being black colour.

Now I don't have to waste time for the next 2-3 yrs.(?) or more (hopefully) ,searching for a new pr. of jeans. It is an incentive that I also not gain any weight to keep on wearing them! They are a classic boot cut, not low and wear them to the office 50% of the time.

In old women's sizing, or Vogue pattern sizing, I am...size 4. I have to buy size 0 from the store clothes rack now.

I do buy some teen boy's clothing. But even for a small woman, they have some (small) curves, so the cut of vests and pants are still kind of straight on me. I was stunned to ...wear child's size 10 fleecy vest. I noticed some children's wear have gotten bigger. :(

To stop this rantin', I should get back to sewing. Well, maybe I will in about a decade. I'm just content to making minor alterations to new clothing. There is a new large, fabric store I am curious to visit one day..near a bike path. :)

[winddance]

That jacket is SWEET!!!!!! It's exactly what I'm looking for. Have you worn it in cold weather? Just wondering how warm it would be. I bought the Shebeest winter vibe, love the jacket but not so crazy about How it fits across the chest as its tighter than I like.

Well -- I live in California, so that depends on your definition of cold. I have worn it on some "colder" mornings (40s,) and some wet, windy days and been really happy with it, but it isn't that cold here and I tend to run hot when I'm riding.

[zoom-zoom]

What is now a 6 used to be a 12. Vanity sizing. ;)

I always think it's funny when people trot out that Marilyn was a size 14. Yes, she was a size 14, but her size 14 dresses have been measured and today she'd be a 6.

Years ago I lost enough weight that I was in smaller sizes than I was in HS--but I was not actually smaller than I was in HS.

That said, I find that sizing is ALL over the place in women's clothing--sometimes even within the same brand...and sometimes even within the same MODEL from year-to-year. That drives me nucking futs. Sometimes I can order online safely, but other times I end up returning stuff that is nowhere near what their sizing chart suggests it should be.

[OakLeaf]

\sizing is ALL over the place in women's clothing--sometimes even within the same brand...and sometimes even within the same MODEL from year-to-year.

It varies regionally too, and then there's good old quality control.

Last year I bought two inexpensive Brooks running tops right here on TE. Bought them at the same time. Same model, same labeled size, I didn't check the date, but one is at least an inch larger in all measurements, maybe two. :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

I've had the same thing with Sugoi tights. Mid zeros are snug. Sub zeros loose. Bought at same time.

[GLC1968]

Ha, I got you all beat! Two weeks ago I was shopping for flats. Found a pair I loved (in store) but they only had one pair left in my size in the color I wanted. Unfortunately, even though that pair had two shoes labeled size 7...one was a 7 and the other was about a 5.5! I couldn't even squeeze my foot into them. Talk about quality control issues!!

Oak is right in that petites are designed on a 5'4" model. That 5'4" model also has long legs (like most women), so women like me who are also 5'4" but have a long torso and shorter legs cannot wear petites at all. Pants are ALWAYS too long and then too short in the rise and the waists on petite dresses sit in my arm pits. Standard clothing? Pffft!

[goldfinch]

When I was in grad school in the late 70's I wore a size 6 petite and weighed about what I do now. I was going through boxes at our old family home ( where me and all my relatives store way too much crap) and found some clothes from back then. I currently am a 4 petite. The sixes in the box fit about the same as my current 4s. So, it isn't a big difference. Ugly clothes though. Maybe then, like now, cheaper clothes were bigger than the more expensive stuff.

I agree with those who say that petite lengths keep getting longer. I now look for ankle pants because those are about right as full length pants.

[emily_in_nc]

Maybe then, like now, cheaper clothes were bigger than the more expensive stuff.

??? I have always thought just the opposite. I wear a size 2P at Ann Taylor or Talbot's, but 4P if I order from LL Bean, and take me to a Wal-Mart and I'd need at least two sizes larger! I thought it was vanity sizing so that wealthier women would feel better about themselves.

[GLC1968]

??? I have always thought just the opposite. I wear a size 2P at Ann Taylor or Talbot's, but 4P if I order from LL Bean, and take me to a Wal-Mart and I'd need at least two sizes larger! I thought it was vanity sizing so that wealthier women would feel better about themselves.

Wow, that's really weird! I have to order S or XS from LLBean because their clothes run so large on me.

It is true that much higher end clothing (not Ann Taylor but more like Ralph Lauren, Carolina Herrera, Chanel, Versace or the like) do run smaller than everyday labels you can buy at the mall. I don't think the sizing difference between Banana Republic and Target is quite as obvious even though there is definitely a price difference.

[OakLeaf]

That's weird. I'm also currently a 4 petite in most brands (sometimes a 2, which is ridiculous) but the clothes I bought in the 80s that I can still wear are 10s and 12s. Wonder why yours were 6s?

Still, my classic Jones New York silk suit that I bought in the mid-90s is a 6, and actually the waist is just a hair tight on me now. That's oblique development, not menopot. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

I can't buy at Talbots or LL Bean. The smallest size (2P) is swimming on me. I can still buy at Ann Taylor, and the clothes are sized more like the old days. I just find the styles often not to my liking. I used to buy a lot of stuff there, but I don't wear suits anymore. I wish Gap had xx-small petites. I like their sweaters better than Banana Republic, but the x small petites are too big most of the time. I still buy them if they are shorter styles. Thankfully, the pants fit me. In the past 10 years, I have gone from a size 4-6 at the Loft to a 0. I have lost weight (not more than 7-10 lbs.) and inches, but still.

[Irulan]

??? I have always thought just the opposite. I wear a size 2P at Ann Taylor or Talbot's, but 4P if I order from LL Bean, and take me to a Wal-Mart and I'd need at least two sizes larger! I thought it was vanity sizing so that wealthier women would feel better about themselves.

from my favorite fashion industry blogger, Kathleen Fasanella of The Fashion Incubator

The Myth of Vanity Sizing (http://fashion-incubator.com/archive/the_myth_of_vanity_sizing/)

The Evolution of Sizing (http://fashion-incubator.com/archive/sizing_evolution/)

These two articles have links to even more stuff: the history of women's clothing sizing, more on so called vanity sizing, why the fit of jeans sucks so much etc.

[OakLeaf]

I don't know, but I totally disagree with this line: "garments that managed to survive the era were not representative of the population then anymore than the too-small keepsake garments are representative of women today."

My '80s work clothes came from the same department stores I shop at now, were of the same general quality and (inflation-adjusted) price range. They're not "keepsakes," they're clothes that for the most part aren't very fashionable now but that I haven't yet gotten around to giving to Goodwill. One of my suits I was very flattered to see on a character on the show "Designing Women," if you remember that. Totally representative of what a middle-class woman might wear to an office job. That one too is a little tight around the waist now - that's a size 8. Most of what is hanging in my closet from that era, as I said, is 10s or 12s. And most of it still fits this body that now wears a 2 or a 4.

And then there are the T-shirts that I referenced in the other thread. Plain old event T-shirts. Keepsakes, it's true, but for what's printed on them, not for any other reason. They're the same T-shirts you'd buy in 3-packs at Wally World, just with the event information printed on them. Fifteen years ago I could squeeze into a youth XL, and sometimes preferred those for the shorter length and different designs. Other than that, I'd wear an adult Medium. Nowadays, a youth Medium T-shirt is baggy on me, and so is an adult Small.

I'm obviously not involved in the fashion industry at all, but I think the experience of people like me, Crankin and Muirenn IS representative.


ETA: And I dispute the concept that no one would buy a size 40. I wear a 42 in Italian sizes. I don't hesitate a minute to buy something nice in Italy because of the number on the label. (I also wear a 43 European shoe, but my feet actually *are* huge. :rolleyes:)

[shootingstar]

But it's an eye-opener to remember that 1 generation younger than us or more, meaning born within the last 15 years or less, would have not experienced much the big /noticeable differences between previous sizes 30 years go and vanity sizing of today that we are discussing in this thread.

Or just bigger clothing in the same size now, in a range of manufacturers who have created the same garment for the past 30 years.

Unless they start buying or wearing alot of older secondhand clothing from consignment stores, family attic, etc.

It's like saying I remember what the world was like without the Internet.... For alot of people in certain generation, that's all they've known.

[OakLeaf]

Huh? No one notices until they become an adult and have bought several rounds of clothes over the years. I wasn't personally aware of how sizing changed in the 1950s through 1970s. No one who was born in 90s or later has personally experienced what us 50-something has. We can all still read about it happening in the past, and experience it when it does happen to us, can't we?

[SadieKate]

I have a huge pile of business clothes from the last 20 years ready for donation but that still fit me. Almost everything is marked one to two sizes larger than what I wear today.

[nuliajuk]

Commercial clothing patterns are drafted for a woman who wears a B cup bra. If you're a D cup or larger you will unfortunately never get a great fit. Unless you're in the plus size range - plus sizes tend to be drafted for a C/D cup.
I have the opposite problem - no matter how fat/thin/fit/flabby I've been in my life, I've always been two sizes bigger in the waist and hips than at the bust. I recently bought a bright orange microfiber jacket off a sale rack at a running store, deeply discounted. It fit in the chest and shoulders but not the hip, so I modified it with contrasting gussets sewn at the sides. It's impossible for mass-produced clothing to be made to fit the entire range of body dimensions, so consider the manufacturers sizing to be a starting point. Buy a jacket that fits your biggest part and have it taken in where it's too big. Any tailor shop or alterationist can do the job quite quickly, and it's not usually very expensive. Unless you're bottom heavy like me - altering around the shoulders is a bit more complicated, so adding fabric is often the answer.

[nuliajuk]

On the subject of vanity sizing, vintage sewing sites like Etsy offer a glimpse of the changes, in the old sewing patterns. A size 14 from the 70s was for a 36" bust, 27" waist, 38" hips. I can remember sewing clothes in high school and using the same size pattern as my off-the-rack clothing size. Some time in the mid-80s, a size 12 pattern became too small while size 12 off the rack was fine. The sizing charts used by the pattern companies remained the same, it was the mass-produced clothing that changed.

[Eden]

Hmmm I think that what the article writer is referring to as vanity sizing may not be what some people mean when they use the term. From my perspective I think there is vanity sizing - why otherwise would we as a population of people who are growing - both getting taller and rounder have added all of the "extra" sizing to the bottom? If the clothing is getting bigger why not add the numbers to the top - I mean numbers actually keep going in that direction and that would also mean if you were a 4, which I was at in high school that you'd still likely be a 4 today instead of being a 00(0!) which is what my mostly the same size body fits in today. I'm just waiting for the day when I have to buy a -4 because adding all those 0's is just getting ridiculous. And why do we do it? IMHO, because as we age and get bigger we don't want to be reminded.

[zoom-zoom]

On the subject of vanity sizing, vintage sewing sites like Etsy offer a glimpse of the changes, in the old sewing patterns. A size 14 from the 70s was for a 36" bust, 27" waist, 38" hips. I can remember sewing clothes in high school and using the same size pattern as my off-the-rack clothing size. Some time in the mid-80s, a size 12 pattern became too small while size 12 off the rack was fine. The sizing charts used by the pattern companies remained the same, it was the mass-produced clothing that changed.

Yeah, in the 70s I would have been a 14...perhaps even a 16. Today I am an 8-10. That's ridiculous. And, as Eden pointed-out, it gets especially crazy for very petite/slim women.

[Catrin]

Yeah, in the 70s I would have been a 14...perhaps even a 16. Today I am an 8-10. That's ridiculous. And, as Eden pointed-out, it gets especially crazy for very petite/slim women.

Yep. I am currently a size 6. There is a part of me that is pretty darn cool with that since I once was a size 22, I know I have this apple shape and boobs. I am probably closer to a true size 12, at least before vanity sizing became so popular. I am pleased and perturbed at the same time as I remember what a size 6 looked like in the late 60's/early 70's and I am not there...

[emily_in_nc]

Wow, that's really weird! I have to order S or XS from LLBean because their clothes run so large on me.

It is true that much higher end clothing (not Ann Taylor but more like Ralph Lauren, Carolina Herrera, Chanel, Versace or the like) do run smaller than everyday labels you can buy at the mall. I don't think the sizing difference between Banana Republic and Target is quite as obvious even though there is definitely a price difference.

I wear XS at LL Bean too -- you are very small up top, GLC, as I recall, so I am not at all surprised that you would take an XS. I should have clarified -- the bottoms that I have from them that are 4P and fit are quite a bit older (2-5 years) and and they are sized more like a 2P at other places, so they have definitely done the size inflation thing too. Their smallest size used to be 4P. If they have a 2P now, I was not aware, but that's what I'd order from them if I were ordering today. Their petite pants have been too short in the inseam for me after washing (28.5" which would shrink to 27.5") so I stopped ordering pants from them. The only bottoms I've ordered from them in the past year are a skort and a pair of shorts. They were both XS regular (not petite) and were quite large on me, but I like things loose and comfy down here because it's so hot and humid. Form-fitting clothes just aren't very comfortable.

As for the higher-end clothing labels you mention, I don't buy those sorts of labels, so I will take your word for it that they run smaller! To me, "high-end" clothing is Ann Taylor and Talbot's! :D

[Wasp]

Commercial clothing patterns are drafted for a woman who wears a B cup bra. If you're a D cup or larger you will unfortunately never get a great fit. Unless you're in the plus size range - plus sizes tend to be drafted for a C/D cup.
I have the opposite problem - no matter how fat/thin/fit/flabby I've been in my life, I've always been two sizes bigger in the waist and hips than at the bust. I recently bought a bright orange microfiber jacket off a sale rack at a running store, deeply discounted. It fit in the chest and shoulders but not the hip, so I modified it with contrasting gussets sewn at the sides. It's impossible for mass-produced clothing to be made to fit the entire range of body dimensions, so consider the manufacturers sizing to be a starting point. Buy a jacket that fits your biggest part and have it taken in where it's too big. Any tailor shop or alterationist can do the job quite quickly, and it's not usually very expensive. Unless you're bottom heavy like me - altering around the shoulders is a bit more complicated, so adding fabric is often the answer.

It's amazing the things you learn at TE. No wonder most regular sized tops/jackets don't fit me if they are based on a B cup. As far as plus sizes, they tend not to fit either as they are to large and baggie around the middle. For years I have been sizing up and then getting the item altered.
I always assumed that smaller framed women had an easier time buying clothing, and I also assumed that it was just me that had fit issues. It's nice to know im not alone and that a lot of women share my frustration.
And yes, I know what happens when one assumes.....it makes an *** outta u and me :)

[lovelygamer]

I struggle with this too and it drives me INSANE. According to most manufacturer charts, in order to get a cycling outfit that first perfectly, I'd have to go into the 3/4X category. 3/4X are you kidding me??????? Nothing against anyone else, but I'd personally commit hari kari if I was really wearing a 4X. And, do you know how few designers make and carry anything that size? Yes, I'm overweight but on top of that, I am curvy. Double Whammy in athletic gear, for sure.

[ehirsch83]

Try Pearl Izumi for outer wear also.

I live by them and was going to go audition to be a fit model but my chest is too small and waist was too big for my sizing(they want a 34 chest and 26 waist for a small- I measured myself and turns out I have a 32 chest and a 27 waist.. only thing spot on for me was the 36 hips and I am actualy 5'5 and a half so I wasn't going to cut the 5'5 height requirement)
It seems that they run big in the chest for sizing (34 for small, 36 for medium 38 for large)

[Wasp]

I struggle with this too and it drives me INSANE. According to most manufacturer charts, in order to get a cycling outfit that first perfectly, I'd have to go into the 3/4X category. 3/4X are you kidding me??????? Nothing against anyone else, but I'd personally commit hari kari if I was really wearing a 4X. And, do you know how few designers make and carry anything that size? Yes, I'm overweight but on top of that, I am curvy. Double Whammy in athletic gear, for sure.


I found a really cute cycling jersey at a retail sports store, I tried on the large and it was so small the only thing it fit was my neck, so I tried xl. No joy there either. There was no noticeable difference in size except the sleeves and torso were longer. Bigger sizes are code for longer arms and torso, with no noticeable increase in width. The xxl "fit" across the chest, but the sleeves were about 4inches longer than my fingers, and the torso so long it looked like a short dress. All fixable, but inconvenient.
I know a lot of ladies have posted they find the sizes bigger, Unfortunatley that has not been my experience as I'm finding things fitting very small. My 115lb dtr-in-law usually wears xs or small, and she is finding them often to be to small. I think the trick is not to get hung up on the size of the clothing, and just go with what actually fits. Personally I find the sizing to be all over the map, even from the same manufacturer. These days when I find something that actually fits, I tend to buy it in 2 or 3 different colors.
For someone really petite I know junior sized clothing tends to look teenager-ish, but don't they have basic black cycling shorts? Or tops in basic neutral colors that would fit properly and not look inappropriate?
Just a thought :)

[Eden]

Cycling gear tends to only come in kids and adults. Kids stuff is usually inferior in design and materials (though it is generally cheaper too). I think this is true for most sporting goods - like I could buy kids 3.5 hiking boots, but women's size 5 will be a whole lot nicer and have more options available, since who wants to buy $$$ gortex hikers for their kid who will probably outgrow them before they get used 3 times.

Some things work in kids. Jeans - good. I can find nice fashionable jeans in kids sizes. Converse sneakers - the selection in kids 3/3.5 is better than adults. OTOH, dress pants - kids don't cut it style or material wise. Same with things like dress boots. Cheaper things that kids wear often are great, but things kids don't use to much or that would be expensive if made well (which means that you wont find them made well in kid size) don't usually cut it for me.

[Crankin]

Yep, there are no junior sizes in cycling clothes.
Not too many basics in juniors, either. I have eyed a few tees, but I rarely shop in stores, mostly on line. I wore junior sizes until I was close to 40, but thankfully petite sizes became more common. I am not as small as Eden, but my mom wore a size 4 shoe; that was OK when my family owned a shoe factory and 4 was the sample size. By the time she was looking for shoes for my wedding that was over, and she was desperately shopping at Nordstroms, where she did find something. She did buy kid's sandals and casual shoes, though. While I wear a size 6 in casual shoes, I wear a 5.5 in dress shoes, with a closed heel and it's tough at times.

[azfiddle]

A group of us just ordered some Capo jerseys. I looked on line and found the measurements, and ordered a medium (the size I usually wear). Ouch! We almost all had to exchange them for the next size- I hope the large fits. The medium made me look like a sausage!

[Jiffer]

I relate to your pain! I'm 5'9" and a very full 34D, (almost a DD, but not quite, which causes all sort of bra shopping challenges as well!) . . . so with my height, I have length issues as well as fitting in the bust issues. My waist is about 28", though, so what fits in my bust (and same width hips) might be loose in my waist. I just tried on a new cycling kit by a friend who made some up to advertise his business. Very nice kits, but the sizing is SO small. He feebly handed me shorts to try on in a large and jersey in an XL! It was a little annoying, especially when the Specialized shorts I wear are a size Small! But I also know sizing can vary widely and he already knew his kits ran very small. And the sizes he gave me fit just fine, so he has a good eye.

When we first joined our cycling club, my husband bought me a club jersey. It was women's sizing. I don't even remember what size it was, but probably a medium, which I think is what some other jerseys I had at the time were. It was hilarious how small it was. I was not only busting out of the zipper, but it was terribly short. My 13 year old daughter ended up with it for the few rides we sucked her into doing on the tandem. It fit her perfectly! I ended up getting a men's medium race cut, and my next order I tried the men's small, which is mostly good, but a tad short.

I hate that the sizing makes me feel like I'm fat when I am not. So, yeah, I relate. As for a jacket, I wear arm warmers instead. I live in So Cal, so I can usually get away with not wearing a jacket.

[GLC1968]

I've been obsessed with body image since I was 10. (Sad, but true). I have some of my body measurements from back then (yes, I was a preteen who knew my waist size and my thigh size and my chest size!). When I am at my happy weight now, none of those measurements are different. Yes, there is a little more sagging and slightly less tightness to my skin, but the circumference is the same. Back then (this would be late 70's/early 80's), I wore a 12 or, if the pants were cut well for me, maybe a 10. Today...again, same body measurements, I wear a 4 or a 6. If that's not vanity sizing, I don't know what is.

Emily - you make a good point. I don't wear LLBean bottoms, so you could be totally right about that! My experience was with coats, tops, sweaters and jammies.


You know what I love shopping for even though I'm a tough fit? Shoes. I wear a 7 (or 6.5 wide). I've worn the same size since 6th grade. It's kind of refreshing if you think about it.

[OakLeaf]

You know what I love shopping for even though I'm a tough fit? Shoes. ... I've worn the same size since 6th grade. It's kind of refreshing if you think about it.

Can I hate you? :p I'm wearing shoes three sizes longer and two sizes wider than I was when I stopped growing in height. :mad: But I think it's mainly because first I stopped wearing shoes that constricted my feet, and then my feet responded to not being constricted. Who knew toes were supposed to stick straight out instead of curling under?!

[Irulan]

Commercial clothing patterns are drafted for a woman who wears a B cup bra. If you're a D cup or larger you will unfortunately never get a great fit. Unless you're in the plus size range - plus sizes tend to be drafted for a C/D cup.
I have the opposite problem -

This is only correct if the fit model is a B cup, in the base size that everything is graded from. There is zero standardization in women's sizing so it should not be expected. The only standard in women's sizing is the "grade" the calculations made to grade a pattern up into one size form the next. And it's not proportional.

[ny biker]

Can I hate you? :p I'm wearing shoes three sizes longer and two sizes wider than I was when I stopped growing in height. :mad: But I think it's mainly because first I stopped wearing shoes that constricted my feet, and then my feet responded to not being constricted. Who knew toes were supposed to stick straight out instead of curling under?!

Your toes curled under? I think the size you wore when you stopped growing was smaller than your correct size.

[nuliajuk]

This is only correct if the fit model is a B cup, in the base size that everything is graded from. There is zero standardization in women's sizing so it should not be expected. The only standard in women's sizing is the "grade" the calculations made to grade a pattern up into one size form the next. And it's not proportional.
The patterns are first drafted for dress forms, then tested on a fit model whose measurements come as close as possible to the dress form. The fit model is chosen for her resemblance to the pattern sizing, the patterns are not drafted for the fit model to begin with. Some patterns are started from "slopers", which are base block patterns available to the commercial garment trade.

[shootingstar]

Since I did sew alot of my wardrobe up until my mid 30's, I would agree that sewing pattern size fit jived with store clothing rack sizes for me.

I haven't sewn (much) in past 2 decades, so I don't know what sewing pattern sizing is like now.

[lph]

What's a fit model? Are they the people you see on the store's web pages modelling the clothing? Like that spooky looking woman for Icebreaker?

[spokewench]

We're about the same size and I concur bra shopping is a pain 34 D; I went shopping and it took me an hour to find two bras in 34 and I know what type bra and model I like. Most of the D cups started at 36! For some reason lately though, I think I am the poster child for fit model for size 4. I found 4 pairs of pants in different makes that fit me; a dress at White and Black on sale that fit like a glove and a beautiful fitted gray leather jacket that looks like they used me as a model? WHo knew putting on a few pounds in your 50's would turn you into a fit model!

spoke

[GLC1968]

Can I hate you? :p I'm wearing shoes three sizes longer and two sizes wider than I was when I stopped growing in height. :mad: But I think it's mainly because first I stopped wearing shoes that constricted my feet, and then my feet responded to not being constricted. Who knew toes were supposed to stick straight out instead of curling under?!

You can hate me if you want, but it's not worth it! ;) My toes have stuck straight out and spread like they are supposed to my whole life...hence the 'tough fit' comment. I have a ridiculously hard time finding shoes that are attractive and comfortable! I get super excited when I score a pair, so it's worth the effort for me.

[OakLeaf]

drift, drift away ... Have I mentioned Leming (http://www.lemingfootwear.com/) shoes before? I am loving mine so much. I have them in brown and frost grey (which is much more of a true grey than the picture on their website) and I'm thinking about a third pair in black! They're attractive enough for casual wear, I only have to buy one size too long to fit my EEEEs, and they come out of the washing machine all shiny and new. :)

[emily_in_nc]

drift, drift away ... Have I mentioned Leming (http://www.lemingfootwear.com/) shoes before? I am loving mine so much. I have them in brown and frost grey (which is much more of a true grey than the picture on their website) and I'm thinking about a third pair in black! They're attractive enough for casual wear, I only have to buy one size too long to fit my EEEEs, and they come out of the washing machine all shiny and new. :)

Those are cute and look comfy! Unfortunately, they say they are not for narrow feet, so I can't wear 'em. Bummer! But glad you found some shoes you really like, Oakleaf.

I wear a women's 7 but am weird as I measure an "A" width. Not an "AA" (which is sometimes labeled "N" for narrow), not a "B" (Medium), but an A. That means I can't order any shoes online unless I've bought them before. And shoe shopping can be frustrating as I pretty much always have to get a B/Medium width, many of which are too wide, so I have to try and try to find something to fit. Thus I tend to wear a pair of shoes almost forever, or put up with it slipping off my heel and buy inserts and so forth in an attempt to make it fit better. In my case, clothes shopping is definitely less tricky than shoe shopping!