Help! Need to ditch slow neighbor! (long-ish)

[climbergirl]

Okay, so I feel like a total jerk here, but I've got to find a way out of a bad situation.

A month or six weeks ago, upon hearing that I biked a lot, my neighbor (let's call her Jane) asked me if I wanted to bike with her and her friend (let's call her Sue). I asked about their route and was told it was a loop of about 13-14 miles that I tend to do when I don't have a lot of time. I usually ride it in about 50 minutes to an hour (there are stoplights along a good chunk of it). Jane said they usually rode it in about an hour or so. I thought Perfect! Women to ride with!

Jane told me Sue rode this route almost every single morning. She also warned me that she (Jane) might be a little slow. Still okay, I thought.

I showed up the next morning with my road bike and casual kit to find Jane in her mom jeans with a 20+year-old no-brand mountain bike. "Okay," I thought, "This is okay. We'll have a slower ride, maybe her friend Sue will be someone I can ride with. Well, Sue had bailed on us and completed her ride earlier in the morning due to weather considerations (with no prior communication - we waited in front of her house ten minutes before finding out she'd been and gone).

Jane and I did the route as planned. It took nearly 1:45. Our average speed was 10 mph, and I felt like I was pushing her too hard.

I wanted to be neighborly (we moved into our place in June), and it's nice to have someone to talk to and ride with (I almost always ride alone except weekends with my SO), so I figured I could ride with Jane as a recovery ride once a week. Sometimes it helps to have someone push you out the door when you're busy and the weather is cool etc etc. I've ridden with Jane 4 more times, with no increase in speed. She talks about riding for exercise, but she spends more time coasting than pedaling. Sometimes we're going so slow I have trouble keeping my bike upright and stable.

Today Jane and Sue and I were supposed to ride that same loop, stopping for breakfast at a cafe halfway through. Social ride. Cool. Fine. Meet new person/rider. Turned out Sue is also a casual rider, who was riding an ancient mountain bike with a broken rear derailleur (I think) with slack in the chain because her "regular bike" had gotten a flat and she didn't know how to fix it. Needless to say, ancient mountain bike only made it about two blocks before the chain came off. Sue walked back home and drove to meet us.

After sending Sue back towards home, I expressed some concern about this thing not taking four hours (slight exaggeration; but I had other stuff to do) and suggested we cut part of the loop out. Jane got VERY huffy and offended. Things almost got ugly. I almost turned around and rode home. Long story short, we cut four miles out of the loop and it STILL took us three hours to ride under ten miles and have breakfast.

I can't ride with her any more. I can't take it. I have good cardio. I need to work on my strength and hills. Winter is closing in. Any day I can ride, I've got to ride (it's Minnesota, folks). And while I want to remain neighborly, I was pretty offended by her behavior this morning. I had told her when we arranged the ride that I needed to keep it under 2.5 hours. She didn't have good communication with her friend either time. This morning we waited in front of her house for 5 or so minutes before Jane called Sue only to find out she was waiting for us at a different corner, on the main bike route two blocks away. I don't need to be chewed out for being rude or inconsiderate because I made one comment about running behind schedule and needing to move things along.

Gah! I don't know whether to tell her I need to focus on training in the remaining nice days, or try to sneak out the bike, hope she doesn't see me, and just always tell her I'm too busy if she invites me to ride. She literally lives next door. All she has to do is look out the kitchen window to see me headed out... But I'm really concerned that she'll take it as a personal insult, "You're too SLOW!", if I tell her the truth. Sure, she's slower than I am, and slower than I want to ride. But that's not her fault, or my fault, and I'm not trying to be critical. I'm trying to take care of myself.

Sorry about the rant. But I was PISSED OFF and frustrated this morning, and the only thing that kept me from turning the bike around and saying "Whatever!" was that I have to live next door to this woman for the foreseeable future!

I really just needed to get this off my chest. Thanks...

[Irulan]

I think direct, clear and tactful is the the way to go. You make it about yourself, not about her.
(hmm, now how to say it?)

I'd just say you are in training and you need to ride at "X" pace, and while you appreciate the company, it's not working for your training program. You can always add that "your coach " or "your program" has set these guidelines. They don't have to know that you are your own coach, or that you make the guidelines. You''d be happy to join them for a recovery ride sometime.

The thing is, if they get bent out of shape (bad pun, sorry) about it, are they worth having as friends?

[Jo-n-NY]

I agree with Irulan. I kind of feel she was not honest with you from the beginning saying she also rode the loop in an hour or so. Or so does not mean 45 minutes later in my book.

[Owlie]

I'm seeing this from both sides, being that I'm the slowpoke in my group. ;) You want a workout and you're not getting it with your current riding buddy. She wants a leisurely ride. Just remember that she probably feels intimidated by you, just as you feel frustrated.

How close are you with her? You don't have to be honest, but you could tell most of the truth. Like "I like riding with you, but I'm also training for (early-season event) and I'm trying to focus on that right now. Perhaps in spring?" and offer to do something socially with her. The event gives you some specific goal. If the communication thing doesn't improve, then you're going to have to find a way to cut ties a little.

Oh, and if you do ride with her again, take the beater bike. ;)

[climbergirl]

Thanks, all.

Owlie, I take the old mountain bike and drop it into low gear and spin it out at about 100+rpm. I'm thinking if I go with her again I need to take the 40 pound steel vintage bike!! I'm sure she feels intimidated, but I've been very careful (I think) about never making critical comments on her speed. I've given her two or three technique hints (drop to a lower gear and spin up those slight inclines!!) but I've tried hard to be polite. I don't want to make her feel unknowledgeable, but once she actually put her helmet on backwards 8-O

I agree with Jo-n-NY that she sort of overstated her abilities in the first place. If it was really just a "social" ride, I'd understand, but she addressed this as "exercise". If it's exercise, keep those legs moving, girlfriend!

She's not a close friend, but she's the only other woman on the block that I know. I'd like to remain "friendly" if not "friends". My biggest concern is that after our little snit this morning, if I bow out of riding with her she might see it as due to that, rather than to our riding differences.

I wish I could find a suitable riding partner. It would be so nice... I'm going to have to check craigs list or something. :(

[shootingstar]

Since you live next door, better to say that you need to cycle only for training purposes.

But I agree with Murienn, it shouldn't stop both of you from having coffee,etc. together. She sounds like a person who just likes to be social/needs company. I really wish that some people wouldn't take things so personally if a bike ride together doesn't work.

As for wanting a riding partner, is it more for training purposes..or companionship? When there's no one else at the time, I just go solo.

[Shellyrides]

I understand your wish for a riding partner. I keep looking and can't find one.

[emily_in_nc]

Wow...except for the near blow-up/fight during your last ride, I could have almost written this post myself! I had the exact situation happen back in 2011 with a dear friend who lived in the same apt. complex. She had bought a bike but had always been a runner so knew nothing about cycling. So, I suggested we could ride a neighborhood loop I enjoyed riding after work, and she was thrilled. I was really looking forward to riding with a partner too, as DH is just too fast for me on this loop. This was a loop that took me exactly an hour to do on my Bike Friday. Some flats, some moderate hills, but nothing too tough or long. I rode it with her about four times, getting progressively more frustrated. She was on a mountain bike (with slick tires, though), and she must have always been riding in way too easy a gear, because she would spin and spin and not get anywhere. I was certainly no speed-demon, but riding with her, we'd be lucky to average 9-10 mph where I was used to averaging 13-14 on my own.

I also tried not to be intimidating, tried to keep it fun and social, and gave her a few pointers on shifting, gearing, and coasting (not!) etc., but we were making NO progress. Fortunately, the last couple months we were in town, she got very busy with other things after work (most noteably a new love) and was never able to get together for a ride, so I stopped asking her to come along. Although I missed the socializing and friendship, I was really relieved. It was so much more fun to ride solo at my own pace than to putter along and get frustrated that I was getting no workout whatsoever. She probably was relieved as well because she felt like she was slowing me down, and of course, she actually was, although I tried really hard not to make her feel like she was.

Let's face it, not everyone is well-matched as riding buddies, but I can certainly understand your wanting to keep the peace since you live so close, just like my friend and I did. In this case, maybe honesty is the best policy, though it's very hard to do. Unfortunately, though I can empathize fully with you, I am not sure what I would do either. In my case, we knew we were moving to Belize, so my situation was self-limiting and had no effect on the friendship whatsoever.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do/say. Moving is probably a bit too drastic. :D

[Geonz]

We've got a person in the club who fits this description... and just doesn't know what it is to exert, and really doesn't want to. so intimidated, I think, that a sort of emotional shut-down happens as soon as effort is required. It's *never* a really good ride... bottom line is between your neighbor's slow bike and slow riding that it's not a good match. I might ask her how she felt on that ride... just to figure out where the huffiness was coming from ('cause that would tell me just how self-centered she was...)

[climbergirl]

Thanks again, everybody.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I need to address the little snitty blow out. As follows: I recognize that we had a clash this morning. I think it's because I'm frustrated and you're frustrated, for our own reasons. We're closing in on the end of the riding season, and while I've really appreciated your company, I think I need to focus on getting as much hard riding in as I can before winter. I'd love to have coffee, though.

I think I can't pretend the clash didn't happen. I'm sure she feels bad about slowing me down. Honestly, SO wants me to do Dairyland Dare with him next summer. The 100k route has 6,663 feet of climbing and the 150k route has 10,340!!! And I want to do it. I thought I could do "recovery rides" with the neighbor. But there aren't enough nice days left. So... hard rides on the nice days, recovery "rides" doing housework!

Oh, and to respond to Shooting Star: I push myself really hard when I go out alone. It's me and the clock and the speedometer. I stick with the routes I know fairly well that don't take me so far from home that I could get really stranded (weekday rides are loops between 20 and 30 miles, rarely out-and-backs). I've only lived in this state 18 months. I've only been road cycling since last Christmas. I'd love to have someone to show me more areas, who is close enough to my skill level that we could push each other and support each other as needed, and generally help me feel like it's not ALL about training. I love being on my bike. LOVE it. SO and I have 3 kids (1 mine, 2 his part-time). I just want someone to share this activity with me more than the twice a month weekend rides SO and I squeeze in together. :(

[Penny4]

I'm the slow poke when I ride with my friends, but I always tell them they are not obligated to stay with me, I know they have their own goals, etc etc and don't ever want to hold anyone back. But I am on a road bike, and go to group rides and aware of mph, etc. You neighbor just has a drastically different idea of riding than you, which is fine...

As others have said, just be honest and tell her you are going to head out a bit earlier because you want to get some extra miles in, or you want to go work on your hills, etc. Maybe you could offer to ride with her when you get back from your solo ride? Or see if she can ride her bike to the coffee shop and meet you after your ride, and then you can ride home together.

Or you could just let the air out of her tires. KIDDING!!!! ;)

[pll]

I would be honest and simply say that you have limited time for cycling, and that you need to make the most of it in terms of training and for you that includes riding as fast as you can; leisurely rides are not part of it. If they take offense, so be it. Most reasonable people would understand.

[Crankin]

I ride with two people that are slower than me. One is getting slower as the years pass and the other one is improving. I don't expect a fast ride with them and I don't look at the time or do anything that would put a huge time limit on my riding time, unless I state it explicitly up front. But, on the other hand, I'm not training and I don't care. I go ahead on all of the hills, and usually by the end of these rides, I am alone and ahead. But, it's still social. Of course, they are good friends, and we are riding familiar routes. I guess it's slightly different, as they both are knowledgable road cyclists with nice bikes and appropriate clothing for such. I know some people wouldn't ride with them, but I just don't care anymore. I get my faster rides alone, with DH, or with a group once in awhile.

[PamNY]

Irulan's advice -- "direct, clear and tactful" -- is perfect. If you want to, make it all about you -- say you need to focus on training, and you realized you can't do that when riding with other people. But definitely don't feel obligated to continue cycling with these two. It won't get better.

Their behavior sounds extremely self-centered. I'm a very slow rider -- there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm well aware that my pace would not be right for many (maybe most) cyclists.

[Biciclista]

gosh, just tell her about the ride you have to do next spring. Be honest. You DON'T want to be sneaking around.

[smilingcat]

What Irulan and Bicilista had to say. Don''t sugar coat the "bad" news. Maybe they are realize they are in way over their head with your bicycle ability and not sure how to break the news to you.

Just tell them that you enjoyed their company but training ride is just that and you have a training goal. And don't show up with a 40 pound beater bike so that you can ride slowly with them. It sends a wrong message. If you have a kit wear it. Ride your regular training bike. They'll see that your intended ride is not the same as them. They will understand.

[indysteel]

I agree that you should just be honest. And while I understand the desire to provide some form of a palatable, but honest, explanation as to why you don't want to ride with this woman, I also think a simple "no, I can't" will suffice, too. If you really would like to explore a friendship with this woman, then feel free to suggest meeting for coffee or something else as an alternative, but I'll be honest that there are already a couple of red flags with this woman IMO, so be careful with how you proceed.

[Cynedra]

I agree with most things everyone said. But be forewarned, it is possible she will be offended anyway. Some people just are easily offended. From her huffiness, she might be one of those. Then again, it could just have been a bad day for her. Don't take it personally no matter what happens. I really liked the idea of the post training ride ride.

[goldfinch]

My guess is that she will be embarrassed and embarrassment can show up as huffiness.

One possibility is to ride with them but say you are going to push it a bit but you will wait for them at a certain spot. I sometimes ride with a friend of my husband's. He rides much, much faster than me. He will go up and down a hill as he waits for me. I am glad he does that because otherwise I would feel like I am holding him back.

When I ride with my cousin, I do the same thing. I tell her that I am going to push it up the hill because "I want to get the blood moving," and I either wait for her at the top or circle back around.

[Trek420]

My guess is that she will be embarrassed and embarrassment can show up as huffiness.

One possibility is to ride with them but say you are going to push it a bit but you will wait for them at a certain spot. I sometimes ride with a friend of my husband's. He rides much, much faster than me. He will go up and down a hill as he waits for me. I am glad he does that because otherwise I would feel like I am holding him back.

When I ride with my cousin, I do the same thing. I tell her that I am going to push it up the hill because "I want to get the blood moving," and I either wait for her at the top or circle back around.

^ that. The only thing I dislike about cycling is the stratifying, dividing of people. I ride ___ distance at X speed with ____ amount of climbing, you ride _____ distance at x speed with more climbing, she rides _____ distance at x speed straight up a cliff. None of us can ride together.

As new cyclists their "oh, we ride that in about an hour" is not from the training standpoint we have. In training we think of the exact speed and time. A new or newer cyclist "about an hour" could be an hour or maybe two.

They also might not think of the hour as continual. They go out for "about and hour" which includes some breaks, getting started, rest etc. It might sound dry, exclusive and a bit catty but if you don't know the rider and are planning a ride "I'm doing 40 mile non-stop training rides averaging a speed of 18 mph". Be exact.

If you blow them off you may destroy what could become a budding love of cycling. If I was in their SPD compatible shoes or maybe it's KEENS I'd surely be turned off to both riding and cyclists.

When I ride with my cousin I climb at my slow but steady pace, he does hill repeats or even explores a side route while I get to the top. Ask them if they mind you doing that because you must train for the event.

There's obviously an interest in getting fit. Do they run, walk? If you're a runner you might literally do a run while they ride. That may inspire them to get a new bike.

Is there a bike club with an a no drop ride? Ask them if their interested and join them there. You get to ride at the front, they have a sweep. You see them at start and end, maybe the meal after. In a way yes, it's not fair that you're both leading and sweeping.

Lastly since they need to learn more about cycling including basic maintenance why not invite them here? They will learn a lot and maybe be able to join you next season on some early season training rides.

Just delete this thread first. :rolleyes: because really it comes off a little catty and exclusive.

[Aromig]

Everyone has wonderful advice.

They know they're slow, and they likely feel bad about it. I started riding with co-workers after work. It was clear that one co-worker (whose goal was to train) clearly wasn't getting a workout because we were too slow. I had an accident that prevented me from riding for a few months, and the rides just sortof went away -- but in a way it was a relief because the two of us that were slow felt bad and the fast person obviously didn't want to hurt our feelings. I'll admit -- when the fast person would ask if the pace was right, I often reacted huffily which was unfair because the fast rider was just being courteous but my reaction was more because I knew I was holding him back. We had these issues and we'd known each other nearly a decade. I can't imagine how much trickier it is with someone you're just meeting!

[Trek420]

They know they're slow, and they likely feel bad about it.

Maybe not. Maybe they did not know they're slow till they met you/us.

Remember your first ride as an adult. :rolleyes: "Yeah baby, we cool, we bad, riding 5 miles maybe less!!!!" :D

Odds are they did not know they were slow, that their helmet's on backwards :confused: that bikes can be repaired and tires inflated, that one should eat first before doing something hard or at least hard for them (remember the fight before you turned around for breakfast? Sounds like bonking to me) .... until you arrived.

Here's the tricky part. You can't be expected to nurture them from where they are to full carbon, kit wearing, clipless status. But I'd want to nurture that tiny precious little spark of what they want to do (ride to better health) and help get them started.

Point them in the right direction subliminal hint, to the TE forum and offer to be a resource.

All bikes and all riders are good at least in my book even or maybe especially "no name MTB's". They might or might not ever do centuries but they can be good riders with our help.

Point 'em here! We can help. Than later on when they improve and drop you on the club ride you will have a riding friend and not a ticked off neighbor.

[climbergirl]

Thanks to everyone who has responded and given me support here in this thread.

I think we've settled it. I left a plate of cookies on her porch, she took the initiative to say that maybe we shouldn't ride together, that what I called a "recovery ride" she called a "joy ride". I agreed with her that there's lots of joy in biking and I didn't want to squish that for her. And I suggested that next spring we could arrange a family bike ride with our kids (5 total between 9 and 14) and in the meantime, that I hoped we could still share the occasional cup of coffee.

Thanks again, everybody. Just having a place I could TALK about this, without feeling like a total b!tch, helped bring me a lot of perspective!

[Irulan]

cookies FTW:D

[roo4]

A plate of cookies can solve many problems. :)

[Trek420]

Cookies and beer! :)

[Melalvai]

I'm so glad to hear that nice resolution to the story.

I've been feeling discouraged lately because I am just plain slow. I run a 13 min mile. I swim a 1.5 min lap. (I could be a faster cyclist with a nice road bike but that's not where I want to put my resources.) I started biking 7 years ago for transportation. I've gotten quite a bit more fit and slimmed down. I have the "heart of an athlete" (according to my doc). If you put everyone out there on a bike, or run, or swim, I'd beat most of them. But they aren't out there, and so I'm slower than everyone who IS out there.

I don't care about comparing myself with others. Most of the time I can be happy with the fact that I'm out there, and the fact that everyone else is so far ahead of me doesn't matter. But sometimes I just feel alone. I wonder where are all the beginners? Where is everyone else who is slow like me?

I'm glad that you can support your neighbor in her effort to break into something new. I hope you can encourage her. Maybe some of that encouragement will find its way back to me somehow. :)

[roo4]

Melalvai,

I'm in the same boat. Wish we lived in the same town!

[Catrin]

Same here Melalvai, wish we lived closer! I will never be speedy on the bike and that is ok....but I hear you! I ride a lot but my riding position insures a slower pace. I would probably be slower if I were more aerodynamic but it is nice to have something to blame it on ;) I am faster than those who don't ride often, but that is about it.

[Grits]

Melalvai and roo4, Me too! I'm faster than anyone who does not ride regularly, but I'm the slowest of those who do. I've decided that I am as fast as I am going to get unless I am willing to devote more time to and become much more serious about my riding, which I guess I'm just not willing to do. I try to just enjoy my rides, but it is a little discouraging to be the slowest most of the time. I don't know that I can blame it completely on my age, but I do happen to be the oldest in my riding group. I also claim to have no fast twitch muscles!

[Cathy88]

Climbergirl - The Hub Bike Co-op in South Minneapolis has women's group rides, both fast and slow, on Monday nights in the summer. Of course they're over for the season now but here is the text from their event calendar:

Women's rides - Casual and Road
Women's Road Ride-This is a faster-paced road ride of about 15-20 miles at about a 15 mph average speed. We will ride in a single or double pace line on streets and with traffic. The ride will begin and end at 3020 Minnehaha Ave. South in Minneapolis at 6:00 pm, every Monday from April 16th through the end of August.

Women's Casual Ride-This is a causal-paced ride that will use a combination of bike paths and streets. This is suitable for all kinds of bikes (and all kinds of riders!). The ride will begin and end at 3020 Minnehaha Ave. South in Minneapolis at 6:00 pm, every Monday from April 16th through the end of August.

I know what you mean about winter looming (I'm in the Twin Cities too). There are precious few days left!

[climbergirl]

Thanks, Cathy88! I've tried to keep an eye on the TCBC calendar, but I hadn't seen the Hub's calendar (I test rode bikes there, though!) I'd love to meet some other women who ride. Evenings might even work out when the kids don't have school. For now, juggling part time work and family, I usually ride alone during the day and devote evenings to dinner and homework. It's nice because there are fewer cars on the roads mid-morning, but it also means it's REALLY hard to find people to ride with, especially since I don't really know anyone in the first place. :-P

Maybe we'll luck out (for cyclist - not for farmers!) and have another winter like last year. I rode at least once every month.

[OakLeaf]

Wait until you gals retire. ;)

Around here, there are some SERIOUS riders who are also very slow. They're in their late 60s to mid 70s, ride thousands of miles a year, and typically take off for a month-long or longer unsupported bike tour every year or two, at a moving average of 12 mph or slower. I can't ride with them except to start together and maybe they'll have arrived at the restaurant by the time we finish breakfast. But they are real riders and no question about it, and I don't really get the impression they're much slower than they were in their prime. (Not least because there are also some people the same age who can kick my azz.) They just have more time to ride. :)

[emily_in_nc]

Not everyone is built for speed, and not every bike is built for speed. Having great endurance is something to be proud of too, and I suspect some of you who say you are slow have excellent endurance. There are just so many different kinds of cyclists. On bike club rides, it seemed like I was usually stuck in the middle between the fast riders up front and the slow riders at the back, so I often had to ride alone if I didn't want to go slower than was comfortable for me. The slower riders often had a decent-sized group to ride with. So it's possible that you who consider yourself slow might have some luck if you seek out some group rides...so long as they're not fast, paceline-type rides.

[Norse]

Thanks, Cathy88! I've tried to keep an eye on the TCBC calendar, but I hadn't seen the Hub's calendar (I test rode bikes there, though!) I'd love to meet some other women who ride. Evenings might even work out when the kids don't have school. For now, juggling part time work and family, I usually ride alone during the day and devote evenings to dinner and homework. It's nice because there are fewer cars on the roads mid-morning, but it also means it's REALLY hard to find people to ride with, especially since I don't really know anyone in the first place. :-P

Climbergirl - you might also check out the Hiawatha Bike Club. They offer different levels and seem to have a lot of "older" and retired riders who can do day rides. It would also give you a chance to explore the west metro. :)

[Trek420]

Women's Casual Ride-This is a causal-paced ride that will use a combination of bike paths and streets. This is suitable for all kinds of bikes (and all kinds of riders!). The ride will begin and end at 3020 Minnehaha Ave. South in Minneapolis at 6:00 pm, every Monday from April 16th through the end of August.

Hey, Climbergirl, Now, that ride sounds promising for your neighbors to gear up for. I hope you'll let them know. :)

It sure makes winter easier with something to look forward/train for/goal next season. Back when I was in sunny, very hilly California riding with the Velo Girls Club I'd meet some folks at their club rides. We start and end together, my fast friends way ahead during the ride. I'm more the "Where's the hill, point me to the hill, I'll get there" kind of rider. Slow but very strong and steady. Stronger now I think since I lost the 20 lbs or so. :)