LBS Etiquette?

[DebSP]

I am considering purchasing a new bike. I love my road bike and I feel the fit is great (no issues). But I want a steel bike. I have been to 3 different bike stores and no one has anything in steel even close to my size. So my question is, if I ask them to get a bike in the the size I [B]think [B] I need, what happens if it doesn't fit? Am I obligated to take the bike usually? I would feel bad sticking them with a bike they may not sell. Part of the problem is that I feel I need a small bike. My Dolce is a 48. Since I can only go by the geometry charts and nothing matches up exactly, what happens if I guess wrong? And on the same point is it better to go with something close but slightly bigger or close and slightly smaller. I am imagining that it is easier to adjust things from a little too big. For example my Dolce top tube length is 505 mm. The Cross Check top tube is 505 mm for a size 42 and 515 mm for a size 46. Size 42 like a really small sized bike. I am 5.5 and my inseam is 29.5. The standover height on the Dolce is 28 inches and the standover on the 28-3/4 inches and 29.5 inches respectively. I know the answer will probably vary from store to store but what is the normal chain of events? Do I say oh this is not the right size can you get it now in another size?

Sorry about the long post, my head is spinning! Maybe I should just go lie down til the urge for a new bike goes away! :rolleyes:

[Tri Girl]

Depends on the shop. When I went to order a tri bike (a Cevelo P3), I had to buy it sight/size unseen. Once they ordered it, I was obligated to purchase it. I'm thankful it worked out for me. There was another bike I really wanted, but really wasn't sure I would like it, and at this LBS they also required you to buy the bike if they ordered it (so I didn't on this occasion). It can be scary ordering a bike you've never ridden. The bike I bought size unseen they did EXTENSIVE measurements with me so I was certain it would fit (and I had bought my previous 2 bikes from them so I trusted them).

Exciting about getting a new bike, tho, isn't it? :)

[redrhodie]

I always let my shop do all the geometry chart figuring. Too much stuff to take into consideration, like seat tube angle and bottom bracket height, among other things. But, don't worry! A good shop deals with ordering people bikes all day long, and you're ahead in the game because you already have a bike that fits.

So, your shop should be able to look at you and your Dolce and compare it to any other bike you're thinking about, and tell you not only what size you need, but how the differences in geometry and materials will affect the ride. If you have any doubts about what they're telling you to order, run it by us. Someone here knows everything. ;) (not me!)

Have fun! Buying a new bike is so exciting! Can't wait to see what you get.

[moderncyclista]

I am considering purchasing a new bike. I love my road bike and I feel the fit is great (no issues). But I want a steel bike. I have been to 3 different bike stores and no one has anything in steel even close to my size. So my question is, if I ask them to get a bike in the the size I [B]think [B] I need, what happens if it doesn't fit? Am I obligated to take the bike usually? I would feel bad sticking them with a bike they may not sell. Part of the problem is that I feel I need a small bike. My Dolce is a 48. Since I can only go by the geometry charts and nothing matches up exactly, what happens if I guess wrong? And on the same point is it better to go with something close but slightly bigger or close and slightly smaller. I am imagining that it is easier to adjust things from a little too big. For example my Dolce top tube length is 505 mm. The Cross Check top tube is 505 mm for a size 42 and 515 mm for a size 46. Size 42 like a really small sized bike. I am 5.5 and my inseam is 29.5. The standover height on the Dolce is 28 inches and the standover on the 28-3/4 inches and 29.5 inches respectively. I know the answer will probably vary from store to store but what is the normal chain of events? Do I say oh this is not the right size can you get it now in another size?

Sorry about the long post, my head is spinning! Maybe I should just go lie down til the urge for a new bike goes away! :rolleyes:


It's important to note that the Cross-Check's run weird on sizing. Go a size down from the normal size. If you usually ride 48, don't get the 46 it WILL be too big. (Had this happen to a male friend of mine. Now he's out $1000 on a bike he can barely ride. My male friend is 5'5'' and he can't ride his 50 cm at all.) Go a size down to the 42. It should fit you right. Try to find another bike your LBS has in-stock with a similar stand-over and top-tube length.

I ordered my LHT sight unseen. I asked them to measure my 520 and compare catalog stats. Not an exacting science, but it worked. :D

Good luck with your bike endeavors!

[Owlie]

You're obligated to buy an ordered bike in most shops that I know of. I have the same problem--I can almost never find the size I need in stores, so I'm guessing, and in my case it's complicated by the fact that my bike doesn't fit.
You've got a bike that does fit, so I'd let the shop compare. Good luck!

[DebSP]

Thanks ladies! I think it just got complicated because one store wanted to sell me a 2009 cyclocross bike that they had reduced (it was a nice aluminum frame with carbon forks but not what I wanted) and I got the impression that they weren't going to help me get a Cross Check. One store showed me one bike that was not steel and then ignored me. Another store had just moved the week before and was a little disorganized and a little busy, but said he didn't think I needed a steel frame. And I actually went to a fourth store but didn't count them because it was just a bunch of kids in the store and no one even talked to me! So then I felt I had to figure it all out on my own and just order what I want! I have some holidays coming up in a few weeks, maybe I will try to get into a store during a week day when they may not be so busy and will take the time to listen to me!

[Owlie]

Do you have a shop in the area that actually sells Surly? That would be the best place to start.

[Trek420]

It depends on the shop. Several shops I know in the Bay Area when I was just looking, really just looking said if "If you want to test ride a bike and do not see your size just let us know, we'll order it." Just to test ride! I suppose they knew another small rider will come along and buy once they have it there.

Helps if it's your regular shop and you bring them beer.

[Irulan]

It depends on the shop. Several shops I know in the Bay Area when I was just looking, really just looking said if "If you want to test ride a bike and do not see your size just let us know, we'll order it." Just to test ride! I suppose they knew another small rider will come along and buy once they have it there.

Helps if it's your regular shop and you bring them beer.

Or cookies. Not everyone drinks, and some of the nicest shop guys aren't always over 21.

[DebSP]

Do you have a shop in the area that actually sells Surly? That would be the best place to start.

Yes two of the shops I went to advertise Surly lines. The one that had the 2009 bike to sell had a 52 Cross Check that they said was too big for me before directing me to the other bike. And the shop that said he didn't think I needed a steel bike has Surly listed in their ad but I didn't see any Surly bikes there. I was willing to look at other steel bikes if they carried a different brand but no luck! I will try a couple of different shops a bit further away on my holidays.

[Kiwi Stoker]

To further clarify why most stores don't do "order in and try- no obligation" for strange sizes. Most bikes from manufacturers are shipped partially or not at all asembled. It normally takes a mechanic about 1 hour to assemble the bike (wrapping handlebar tape, running cables, fitting parts together) so that is a cost to them.

Once out of the box- cannot be returned to the warehouse, even if they manage to get it back in the box! So the store or the company's rep will have to find another store to take the bike off the orginal store's hands if they cannot find anyone else to buy it- and to keep costs down that means it cannot really be shipped to the other side of the country- probably just within the rep's territory (of course extreme circumstances will mean a bike MIGHT travel across country for a determined buyer).

There could be more flexibilty in stores that are "sole brand". Eg concept stores for one brand of bike only. That means they are considered the "elite", top rung store and probably have special priveliges that other multi-brand stores will not. But of course this is really only for big brands. Small brands are less likely to take the "hit" of an unsold bike.

Hope this clarifies things a bit more for everyone.

[azfiddle]

I can't advise you on the bike- but I am also small and when I was test riding bikes last year, one thing that sealed the deal was that the shop was willing to order the bike in my size (44) without obligation to buy, because they said it was early in the season and they said they could sell it. I think they were also pretty sure I would love it, which I did.

So it can't hurt to ask.

[Eden]

Just FYI - cyclocross bikes have a shorter seat tube (which is what is listed as the "size" for bikes) than road bikes, because the bottom bracket is higher - so indeed you probably would need a 42 in the CrossCheck if you normally ride a 48 in a road bike.

The attitude from the bike shop I don't understand..... maybe you don't "need" a steel bike - heck, you probably don't "need" another bike at all, much in life we don't truly need, but you *want* a steel bike.... they should be willing to sell you what you want...

[jessmarimba]

I don't know where you are, but if you're near an REI they do (usually) carry some Surly bikes and would probably be more likely to order a smaller size without requiring you to buy it. Heck, you may even be able to order one online from them and return it if it doesn't work, though that would be a big pain in the butt and shipping wouldn't be cheap.

[DebSP]

Just FYI - cyclocross bikes have a shorter seat tube (which is what is listed as the "size" for bikes) than road bikes, because the bottom bracket is higher - so indeed you probably would need a 42 in the CrossCheck if you normally ride a 48 in a road bike.

The attitude from the bike shop I don't understand..... maybe you don't "need" a steel bike - heck, you probably don't "need" another bike at all, much in life we don't truly need, but you *want* a steel bike.... they should be willing to sell you what you want...

I think because it is close to the end of the season, they are trying to clear out their stock and so they want me to buy off the floor. And he had no steel framed bikes on the floor!



I don't know where you are, but if you're near an REI they do (usually) carry some Surly bikes and would probably be more likely to order a smaller size without requiring you to buy it. Heck, you may even be able to order one online from them and return it if it doesn't work, though that would be a big pain in the butt and shipping wouldn't be cheap.

I am in Canada and I don't think I want to try ordering online.

Thanks Kiwi! That is what I kind of figured which is why I don't want to stick a shop with a small bike they may not be able to sell! If I can find some one to help me with the sizing, or find a bike that is similar sizes to try it would be nice. I am not in a hurry because I don't ride much in the winter here. So I may wait until Spring now and try a few bike shows.

Thank you all for your replies! I love coming to this forum for help!

[TrekDianna]

I don't know where you are, but if you're near an REI they do (usually) carry some Surly bikes and would probably be more likely to order a smaller size without requiring you to buy it. Heck, you may even be able to order one online from them and return it if it doesn't work, though that would be a big pain in the butt and shipping wouldn't be cheap.

And the good thing about REI is that you can order online for Store pick up so if you don't like it, you don't have to leave with it.

[nuliajuk]

If you aren't stuck on a Surly, there are other good makes to look at in steel bikes. Since you're in Canada, you also have access to Rocky Mountain (Sherpa 30) and Opus (Legato and Largo). And if you're not stuck on a pure touring bike and there's a Jamis dealer in town, Jamis makes the steel Satellite and Quest in women's specific models.
From a geometry standpoint, the Satellite Femme and Quest Femme come the closest to the bike you already have. Their 48 cm model has a top tube length of 50.5 cm and a stand-over clearance of 72.6cm, with angle of 71.5 head tube/75.5 seat tube. This is nearly identical to a 48 cm Dolce.

[Sky King]

We are a Surly Bike Shop, we are super small so we don't keep the cross check in stock as we just don't have the room. We stock every size of the LHT and usually size someone and then order their bike, we try to avoid selling the bikes we have in stock - may sound weird to some but it works for us. We also will not ship a complete bike unless we have met the customer and personally fitted them to a bike.
Having said that, a true Surly shop (and sorry REI doesn't count) should be able to measure you and feel confident in ordering the right size cross check for you.
While I shop at REI for many things I have yet to meet someone at REI that knows enough about bikes to do a good job selling the correct bike.
The guy who tried to talk you out of steel is probably sitting on to much inventory and wanting to clear his floor, don't think I would be going back there.

Good luck in your search, stick to your guns and get the bike that works for you!

[DebSP]

Oh My Goodness! I did it! I ordered a Surly Cross Check in my size in Robin Egg Blue! OK, now that I got that out I will tell you what happened. I must make amends for my earlier statement! I called the bike shop that wanted to sell me a 2009 bike that I didn't really want off the floor and told them that I had my heart set on a Surly Cross Check. I asked when I could start looking into getting one for 2013. It was a different guy and he looked it up on the computer and said that he could get me a 46 if that was what I need (size wise) in a week! I feel maybe I was not assertive enough with the first guy. I have never been assertive enough and I should know better by now. (Thanks Sky King!) The shop was great. I was there for an hour this morning and Neil sent me out on different bikes and he looked at the geometry of my current road bike and the seat position and handle bar position and made recommendations based on that. We decided on the 46 and it will be in a week from Monday! And I tell you the guy who served me last time was there and we chatted about the Surly's and he was great too. (Must be assertive! Must be assertive!) Or at the least be clear about what I want and what I don't want! I am so excited!

[nuliajuk]

Good for you! We can't wait to see pics of the new bike.

[Sky King]

Way to GO!!! Hope you love it. Now as for the saddle.... ugh, I do not like the saddles that come stock at all.

[DebSP]

Update: Well I got my new Cross Check on Saturday. When I picked it up my husband bought me a Brooks B17 to go on it (as an early Christmas present!). They left the steertube uncut so I go back tomorrow to have it adjusted. I can try any different lengths I want until I feel comfortable and then they will cut it for me. So I went out on Sunday for an hour and I thought Ok this is pretty good on gravel roads which is what I wanted. I went out after work last night and I came home thinking that this was the biggest (bicycle) mistake I have made! I wanted to cry. New seat, new gearing, new shifters, new geometry etc. etc. But there was still something about the way it rides on gravel and pavement that attracted me and made me want to like the bike! Well tonight I went out and it was pure magic! I fell in love. I guess I am just not an easy date.;) I stayed out for an hour and 45 minutes and I could have gone longer. It just seemed to click. I still don't think I am going to like the bar end shifters, but I can live with them for the rest of this year. I don't think I could articulate what it is about the Surly that I fell in love with. It is just a feeling you get when it suddenly all feels right.

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