To go Custom or not...do today's mass-produced OTS bikes allow good enough geometry?

[SFLiz]

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I've never posted on a forum before but discovered this site this weekend. Many thanks in advance for reading. Could anyone who has experienced purchasing both custom and off the rack road bikes please opine on the value of both, in terms of fit/cost trade-off? I got fitted for a custom road bike but haven't made the leap because I've fallen into the bottomless rabbit hole of bike buying research. The price creep is dangerous. Originally I was leaning toward getting a custom Seven bike but my budget would limit my part set to SRAM Force and steel or possibly titanium (for another $800) frame. Already I'm looking at $4000-4800 range. Multiply that by two because my husband and I are buying at the same time and we're looking at over $10K. Painful chunk of change. My kitchen pantry addition is on the back burner yet another year.

But if I go OTS with let's say a Specialized Amira SL4, for around the $4800 price range I can get digital shifting and carbon frame (10r). (Equivalent for hubs is the Tarmac SL4 Expert UI2) And I know we really like the digital shifting because we rented two Trek Madone 5.9s and went on a hilly 50-miler and loved the shifting. After that, we were ruined. Jump to Ultegra Di2 would be another roughly $1300.

Question boils down to: do I really need a custom given what mass manufactures can do in today's industry? I don't have unique geometric needs. I'm 5'2". I'd probably get a 48cm Amira instead of a 51 because I'm slightly outstretched on the 51. On the Trek Madone I rented a 50cm and I was much too outstretched for my preference and comfort. The Seven frame of course would be outstanding. But you pay a lot for custom and Seven's quality obviously. They don't have the advantages of volume purchasing of raw materials. Specialized can cut costs with the carbon pricing they are able to get with their weight.

BTW, if I sound like an idiot, that's because I am in this realm. I'm new to road bikes and fairly new to bikes in general. I was never allowed to ride a bike around as a kid (my mom was completely paranoid and believed I'd get snatched up from outside our house). I didn't start riding until a couple of years ago (at age 37) after a lifetime of distance running, when I bought my first bike - a mountain bike and shipped it to Australia. While living there I also bought a flat bar tank (the cheapest money could buy - it cost around $500) and rode that puppy all around Sydney for a year and had a ball doing it. We joined a bike group while there as well and went on rides almost every weekend. I moved back to CA and have been riding all over San Francisco with my MTB for about last 1.5 years. After the hills kicked my arse over and over with my knobby tires, I switched to smoother Continentals and this has really allowed for more enjoyable rides as they roll much, much better. My MTB is fairly heavy - around 29lbs. I really want a road bike to better enjoy my rides across the bridge over to Marin headlands. I've also done these rides with a cheap folding bike (Breezer) and it's fun as well. But...when I tried the Madone, I got over to Tiburon so much incredibly faster and easier than my past rides with my MTB or folding bike, convincing me it was time to take the plunge and buy a road bike.

I'll be using my roadie for enjoyment, not racing. But that being said, I do like to roll fast and in a sick way, I quite enjoy the pain of a tortuous climb. Rides would be typically 50 or so miles with plenty of winding hills. I want to keep this road bike for a long time; I don't want to lust over new models every year. I don't want to change bikes every few years. I want to be happy with my bike for the rest of my riding years. That's why I thought custom but then I'd have to go titanium at best with lesser components (not that SRAM Force or Ultegra 6700 is bad -- they are good sets).

I also am thinking about upgrading our wheel-sets to zipps (but I don't want tubular!) for little more umph in speed. That's another chunk of change. At least 202s but....more $$

Any opinions would be greatly welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.

[indysteel]

There are a few reasons that someone needs to go custom versus mass produced: They have physical issues that cannot be addressed without a custom build; they want a feature or features that are not readily available in mass produced bikes, e.g., S & S couplers for travel; or they want a specific frame material that isn't readily available in the mass market, e.g, steel and ti. There are probably additional reasons, but those are what come to my mind.

Otherwise, it's largely a question of want. Now, I take no issue with those wants. I've drooled over way too many custom bikes to ever criticize somebody for going that route when they could otherwise buy an off-the- rack bike. Some legitimately want something unique, and that's a valid reason in my book. But I think it's important to appreciate that there is a risk with a custom bike that it won't end up being the bike of one's dream bike. I can attest to that, and I know of a few others on TE who were ultimately unhappy with a custom bike. It can be a costly mistake, just as any bike purchase can be. Any time you can test ride a bike, especially if you can go on a long test ride, before buying you are at an advantage IMO.

I don't know if that helps you navigate what you want. I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

Also, in running your numbers, I wasn't clear whether you were also factoring in wheels in terms of the cost of custom. That can add another $600+ dollars (or well more) pretty easily.

[Crankin]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

[indysteel]

I have both a custom titanium bike (Guru) with Ultegra/105 and a stock carbon Kuota with a lot of modification for me, as it's a unisex frame.
I love both. You won't regret the custom, but the carbon will meet your needs. Can't speak for the electronic shifting, but money spent on custom is well spent.

Often it's worth the expense, but I have a $3500 custom ti frame hanging on my basement wall that rides like a torture device. So, you never know. Still, I'll likely go custom again if and when I want a new steel frame. So, don't put too much stock on my sour grapes!

[TigerMom]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.;)

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[GLC1968]

I closely considered custom when I first started riding seriously because I am a tough fit. I went through 2 nice road bikes before I found my dream bike. And it's not custom at all. I've since stopped looking at nice road bikes and fancy frames except to admire them. I don't want them because I love my road bike more than I love my car (and that's saying something!). There are two things that have let me fall in love with my bike: 1) my road bike is unique and I've never seen another one like it in real life and 2) my road bike was as close as I could get to a perfect geometry for me and then I paid a lot of money for a spot-on fit. It rides like a dream and it fits me like a glove.

My road bike is dated. It's a 2005. It runs 9-speed Ultegra. It doesn't have fancy wheels nor is it 'tricked out' at all. It is Ti, but it's painted, so you'd never know unless you rode it (or read the label). But it's unique and it works for my needs 100%. Because of all this, I've stopped looking at other bikes and I can't imagine how any other bike could be better for me. That means, I bought the right bike. It wasn't the most expensive. It wasn't top of the line. And yet, I'm not swayed by those bikes because I love mine so much.

My point is similar to Indy's. The best bike for you is the RIGHT bike for you. Having the best of everything will not guarantee that you won't keep shopping around. And having custom won't guarantee that it'll be the perfect bike for you. It's really a shopping process and I can speak from experience in that when you get it right, it's right and you'll know it!

[maillotpois]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.

[Kathi]

I'm 5'2" also and rode stock frames for years. That said, they never really fit in spite of many alterations. I finally got frustrated with the handling of my carbon frame and built a carbon/ti Serotta. While the carbon frame is still a nice ride it doesn't have the same fit as my Serotta built for me. Everytime I ride the Serotta my body says ahhh, this bike is so perfect (fit, handling, ride). I built it for 650c wheels which I love.

Stock frames are built for average riders. If you're an average 5'2, whatever the companies deem that is, then you may be ok. In my case I have short arms and femurs. My custom frame addresses those issues.

You do have to have complete trust in the expertise of the fitter and be able to communicate your needs to them. the advantage I had was I had ridden both road and mtn bikes for years. My stock frame was set up the best it could be. I knew what I liked and didn't like and what my needs were. My fitter was able to use my old bike as the starting point for my custom frame.

If you are sure you can get a good fit in a stock frame go for it, otherwise, go custom.

[lph]

You can do a lot with a good fitting. I've fit four bikes to my needs without any trouble, but I'm an average size and probably an easy fit. I had never heard of custom builds before I came here, and I would personally not spend my money on a custom. No gripes on anyone who chooses to, and I can see the appeal of a unique bike built for you, but I'm just not that interested in having The Bike. I wrench myself and switch parts as needed. If I had a dream bike I would just go all paranoid about scratching the paint job, or annoyed when parts wore out. Now, if I could spend that kind of money and get a bike where the parts never wore out, or could go without maintenance throughout a winter - THAT would my dream bike!

[SFLiz]

I closely considered custom when I first started riding seriously because I am a tough fit. I went through 2 nice road bikes before I found my dream bike. And it's not custom at all. I've since stopped looking at nice road bikes and fancy frames except to admire them. I don't want them because I love my road bike more than I love my car (and that's saying something!). There are two things that have let me fall in love with my bike: 1) my road bike is unique and I've never seen another one like it in real life and 2) my road bike was as close as I could get to a perfect geometry for me and then I paid a lot of money for a spot-on fit. It rides like a dream and it fits me like a glove.

My road bike is dated. It's a 2005. It runs 9-speed Ultegra. It doesn't have fancy wheels nor is it 'tricked out' at all. It is Ti, but it's painted, so you'd never know unless you rode it (or read the label). But it's unique and it works for my needs 100%. Because of all this, I've stopped looking at other bikes and I can't imagine how any other bike could be better for me. That means, I bought the right bike. It wasn't the most expensive. It wasn't top of the line. And yet, I'm not swayed by those bikes because I love mine so much.

My point is similar to Indy's. The best bike for you is the RIGHT bike for you. Having the best of everything will not guarantee that you won't keep shopping around. And having custom won't guarantee that it'll be the perfect bike for you. It's really a shopping process and I can speak from experience in that when you get it right, it's right and you'll know it!
Thanks GLC1968 - your experience is precisely what I'm concerned about since I actually don't know how a bike is supposed to "feel" when it fits. I mean, the Amira and the Maldone felt like slightly different rides but nonetheless similar. I get the sense that there should be a more comfortable ride for me but I just don't know what that means given the fact that I don't know what I don't know. How do I know what "perfect fit" is supposed to feel like without putting enough time on the saddle to figure out my needs. That takes having a bike already. The hard part is you can't really find a less expensive bike with digital shifting, which is one of the only things I know I really like so far because our rides require lots of shifting - lots of hills. More upright is more comfortable generally but I don't want a ride too upright. This concept of fit and recognizing it when I meet it seems so nebulous to me - I understand it conceptually/theoretically, but I don't want to buy a bike that seems fine only to find something later that slams me in the face as to how "fit" really feels. A test ride on a new bike at LBS only can go so far. A 50-mile bike ride up and down hills is a good test but bike shops don't allow that - I've asked. I dont' even know if I make any sense but I do know I'm reeling in confusion. Thanks for listening.

[tulip]

Custom bikes are nice because they are, well, custom and not exactly like any other bike on the road. There are plenty of very nice stock bikes, too. Need vs. Want is something only you can decide, as is your budget. I would say, though, that just because you start going down the custom road does not mean that you give up all limits. You can get amazing custom bikes without having to pay $10k.

I have ridden bikes for 30 years, all stock until I got my Luna. It's handmade but it's not custom built for me. I bought it from the builder already made, but she said that it's very close to what she would have made for me. It's a dream to ride (it's steel with carbon fork and seat stay). My other bike is a Bike Friday that was built based on my Luna's measurements. My other bikes are stock bikes and they are great. My next bike will be a stock bike, likely a cyclocross bike. Lunas aren't made anymore; if they were, I'd definitely get another one without a second thought

Can't say anything about electronic shifting as I've never tried it.

Ride as many bikes as you can and learn what you like. I think a Seven in titanium would be delightful, but that's just me. Only you can decide what is best for you at this time.

ETA: on second thought, it sounds like you might need some more experience riding before you go all out. Once you ride more, you can decide what's important to you in a bike. Then you'll have more of an idea of what to get in a custom bike.

[SFLiz]

Nice, large bike budget that you have.;)

I'm a newbie, but my sister has officially given me the title of "bike nerd".

So, my personal opinion is that if you are a very flexible, athletic person that does not have any funky anatomy and if you have tried riding all the brands of bikes that you are interested in and they all fit, then you probably do NOT need to go custom. Get that Ultegra Di2 that you are drooling over along with the better wheelset instead of the Custom bike with lower grade components. Also, since the 2013 are in, a lot of LBS are selling their 2011-2012 bikes at a discount

Big warning....I am a newbie. But I still want to see a bike photo to celebrate with you when you decide.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle
Thanks TigerMom - for sure, I'll post a photo :) .... that is, if I am ever able to decide....it feels overwhelming. The more info I gather, the more I wish I never started down this rabbit hole.

Hey, my mom lives in RHts area (Walnut)!!

[tulip]

And remember that there's not only one right answer. There are plenty of bikes out there that will be just fine, not just one. Just go ride some. Fight the analysis paralysis.

[SFLiz]

Custom bikes are nice because they are, well, custom and not exactly like any other bike on the road. There are plenty of very nice stock bikes, too. Need vs. Want is something only you can decide, as is your budget. I would say, though, that just because you start going down the custom road does not mean that you give up all limits. You can get amazing custom bikes without having to pay $10k.

I have ridden bikes for 30 years, all stock until I got my Luna. It's handmade but it's not custom built for me. I bought it from the builder already made, but she said that it's very close to what she would have made for me. It's a dream to ride (it's steel with carbon fork and seat stay). My other bike is a Bike Friday that was built based on my Luna's measurements. My other bikes are stock bikes and they are great. My next bike will be a stock bike, likely a cyclocross bike. Lunas aren't made anymore; if they were, I'd definitely get another one without a second thought

Can't say anything about electronic shifting as I've never tried it.

Ride as many bikes as you can and learn what you like. I think a Seven in titanium would be delightful, but that's just me. Only you can decide what is best for you at this time.

ETA: on second thought, it sounds like you might need some more experience riding before you go all out. Once you ride more, you can decide what's important to you in a bike. Then you'll have more of an idea of what to get in a custom bike.
You hit my dilemma on the nose, Tulip - I realize that I need more experience to know what is my perfect fit, but I don't want to get a suboptimal ride in the meantime... I want to enjoy my weekend rides. I don't want to get some $2000 (which is a lot of money-- ridiculous that $2k now seems like it is suboptimal even before I've bought anything) bike and approach my weekend rides without joy at the prospect of jumping on and tackling the hills. It's a catch-22. I buy a less than optimal bike for my recreational use but then sacrifice on my enjoyment because I feel like I'm struggling up hills/ less smoother / lighter roll than I know I've had on better bikes, and then I have to sell this bike that is supposed to help me develop my understanding of riding. I guess it's all a part of growing as a rider - something we all have to figure out on our own. I just have to figure out how I want to balance my learning curve against my pocket book. Thanks for your astute advice.

[SFLiz]

And remember that there's not only one right answer. There are plenty of bikes out there that will be just fine, not just one. Just go ride some. Fight the analysis paralysis.
Haa haa, nailed it. Do you know me? I am totally a "paralysis by analysis" type of gal, unfortunately. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have a four page excel spreadsheet on bike component research alone, although I haven't updated it last month. Need to do a brain download again. It's bad.

[SFLiz]

The only advice I'd add is to shop around and try several different bikes, perhaps beyond those you've listed. It seems you're in the Bay Area, so I can highly recommend Studio Velo in Mill Valley and Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. Both of those shops have an excellent and well deserved reputation for bike fitting, which is really the key whether the bike's custom or off the rack.

Good luck.
Thanks maillotpois / Sarah. Since you're in the area, any opinions on Mikes Bikes in Sausalito? I got my fitting done at Bespoke in the city. It was one of those detailed fittings that took 3 hrs - analysis of flexibility, biomechanics, injuries, measurements, feet/arches, ride form, power generation, etc. I just got that done last weekend but I get a sense that the fitting was more focused toward something that could be translated for Seven since Bespoke only does custom bikes.

[tulip]

It's a dangerous trap. Just go ride. That will give you more benefit than your ever expanding spreadsheet. Remember, perfection is a way of not doing things behind the mask of doing things right. That's simply foolish. Ask me how I know. Just get a bike (yes, a decent and comfortable bike--a Seven if that's what you want) and go ride.

-tulip (who is constantly fighting her own perfectionist tendencies)

[SFLiz]

If you are sure you can get a good fit in a stock frame go for it, otherwise, go custom.
Kathi,
Hence the dilemma since I feel like the only way I can figure out if I can get a good fit is to go on a long ride, which is not possible, before committing. Are we newbies simply destined to spend money on bikes that will not turn out to be keepers? It's what I'm attempting to avoid.:confused:

[SFLiz]

I, personally, might be very happy with a carbon bike that was well short of top of the line, so I think there may be some benefit to figuring out what you really need/want in a bike--not what your budget can theoretically allow. In other words, don't just spend a princely sum because you can. Figure out if the various upgrades make sense for how and where you ride. If you do that wisely, maybe your pantry won't have to put off for another year!

I hear you loud and clear, Indysteel and believe me, I don't want to spend more than I need. I just have hit the wall in terms of finding that I can't get a less costly bike (custom or OTR) with digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is :() due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride. I so want my pantry if only I could figure out how to lower the bike expense.

[Kathi]

Your lack of experience concerns me too but having said that I didn't realize what a well fitting bike was until I got a custom frame. I went through 4 road bikes before I went custom. I spent a lot of money changing stems, handlebars, and a couple of forks, to get a better fit and more comfortable ride.

Granted, I haven't demoed any stock frames since I bought my Serotta 6 years ago. No need to, I have the best fitting bike and components, for me. Little things like the head tube height and seat tube angle were designed for my physical measurements. Campy components, handlebars, seat post, brakes, etc. were chosen specifically for me, by me and my fitter. Even my custom wheels were built with my 105 lbs in mind. I can't think of any of the components, maybe the seatpost, that I have on my bike that would be found on a stock frame. Even my Specialized Ruby saddle would not be there in my size.

The only thing I changed on my custom frame was the saddle, I went from a WTB saddle to a Specialized Ruby. The Ruby is much smaller and a better fit.

My Serotta is the bike I ride the most. I use my stock frame on my trainer and as a backup bike.

I'm not trying to convince you to do custom, maybe you do need to have a stock frame. I went through a lot of agony before I went custom. Today's bikes are better in fit for small riders than they were 6 yrs ago but I doubt if I'd be willing to go back.

[maillotpois]

Thanks maillotpois / Sarah. Since you're in the area, any opinions on Mikes Bikes in Sausalito? I got my fitting done at Bespoke in the city. It was one of those detailed fittings that took 3 hrs - analysis of flexibility, biomechanics, injuries, measurements, feet/arches, ride form, power generation, etc. I just got that done last weekend but I get a sense that the fitting was more focused toward something that could be translated for Seven since Bespoke only does custom bikes.

You can take your fit data to Studio Velo or Bike Odyssey and they can work with it, though they'll likely want to do some of their own work as well. You're right sometimes the longer fit is more intended to work with a specific custom brand (Seven or Serotta), but the data points translate to other bikes.

Mike's Bikes is a nice starter bike store. I got my first bike there and replaced it with a better bike within 3 months. I know they have higher end bikes now than when I purchased; however, they are more of a big box type of store than someplace like SV or BO. I don't think they have anywhere hear the fit capabilities of Bespoke, SV or BO. And they only carry certain (big company) brands so you may not be able to get a sense of what other smaller bike companies may be producing something that fits your needs.

I've also heard good things about Bespoke, just never went there.

I'd have to say in terms of customer service I'd probably go with Studio Velo even over Bicycle Odyssey. We're very loyal to BO, but you have to have a lot of patience when you go there because Tony's very busy and things tend to take a lot longer than they otherwise should because he get interrupted, can't say no, etc. But he is a master.

[maillotpois]

digital shifting, which is the one thing I have managed to decide that I both want and 'need' (relatively speaking, that is :() due to the terrain I normally will encounter when I ride.


Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?

[SFLiz]

Very meaningful food for thought - thanks so much Kathi. I would love a Serotta - they truly define excellence and something to strive for next time around perhaps. The LBS that did my fitting does offer custom Serottas but the starting point is just too high at this point (too bad the hubs has to get his bike at same time...if only it were just my purchase, the budget could be doubled....:rolleyes:)

[SFLiz]

Curious why this is such a priority for you? What is it that makes this a necessity?
Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

[indysteel]

I'm with those who have expressed concern over your lack of experience. I think you may have a hard time expressing what you want to a builder. It also concerns me that you are fixated on digital shifting when some additional time in the saddle will help you learn how and when to shift. It's really not a hard thing to pick up. As Tulip has suggested, get a stock bike that fits and go ride. Don't overthink it and disabuse yourself of the notion that the bike has to be the end all be all. If after riding for a few years you still feel the itch for custom, then investigate that route. By that time you'll have a better idea of how you want it to fit and handle.

[GLC1968]

Haa haa, nailed it. Do you know me? I am totally a "paralysis by analysis" type of gal, unfortunately. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have a four page excel spreadsheet on bike component research alone, although I haven't updated it last month. Need to do a brain download again. It's bad.

Ha! I had that same spreadsheet and I'm sure it's still tucked away on a computer somewhere in my possession!

You are right in that it is very hard to know what is right until you've kind of ridden 'wrong'. In fact, as much as I wish I didn't have to have gone through my first two bikes, I'm glad I rode both of them for the experience. I was kind of like you in that I'd been riding a mountain bike and I was already fit, so really all the road bikes I tried felt so good that it was hard to tell. My first bike felt a tiny bit too big from the get-go, but it was still such a great improvement over the mountain bike that I didn't really think about it too much. I still rode it for my first year and about 3000 miles before moving on. Then I had a bike that was fit to me and ordered special and it was a huge improvement over the first bike. But I found that I couldn't stop shopping around. Honestly, I thought that was normal and just part of the territory of road biking...you are always lusting over the next thing! Turns out, I was wrong.

But you are 100% right in that it's extremely hard to just 'know' without the experience to base it on. So my advice is to just do the best you can now and accept that as you grow as a cyclist, your needs may change and that's ok. Bikes can be resold, so don't feel like this HAS to be the last bike you ever buy (as much as you may want it to be!). In fact, that may be a really good reason to not go with custom right out of the gate. It might be easier to re-sell a not custom bike if you do change your mind (and why not save a few pennies?).

Whatever you decide, best of luck with it! And welcome to the fold! ;)

[Crankin]

I wanted to add more to my thoughts, now that I am not typing on my I Phone.

It is true that I had to have 2+ bikes that were wrong before I knew what was right. Because of what I learned here, I was able to do a lot of after the fact changing of components on my current carbon bike to make it fit well. My first 2 road bikes were bought when my DH was in a more "hard core" almost racer phase and we both have learned from my experience. My custom bike was built and purchased with a specific purpose in mind. I made some decisions that the shop owner didn't like, but the builder did it all. I still want to change my bars, but after an initial getting used to period, I am riding each of my bikes about an equal amount of time.
I am not one to freak over the prices you quoted. My non custom carbon bike cost 5K, 6 years ago, and my custom ti bike cost, well, more than that. Close to the range you were quoted but not quite as high. But, I never would have spent that amount of money after only riding for 1-2 years. My first road bike cost $1500 and the second cost about 3K. I've been riding for 12 years, I do a lot of hill riding, I'm short (5' 1"), and I would never spend the money for electronic shifters. Unless you have an issue with your hands that makes it physically difficult to push the lever, it's a crazy added expense. "Clunky" shifting sometimes is a result of user inexperience, although it can be crappy components. But really, shifting is an art and eventually, it becomes intuitive.
Personally, I would go for the stock bike, in your position, and really think about the extra added expense of the electronic shifters and the expensive wheels. My personal opinion is that unless you are racing, you don't need either right now. Ride for a couple more years and think about what you really need in a custom bike before you buy it.

[emily_in_nc]

Personally, I would go for the stock bike, in your position, and really think about the extra added expense of the electronic shifters and the expensive wheels. My personal opinion is that unless you are racing, you don't need either right now. Ride for a couple more years and think about what you really need in a custom bike before you buy it.

I totally agree. Also, before laying down that kind of coin, I'd want to be really sure that cycling was going to "stick" as an activity/sport of choice. There are a lot of really nice bikes hanging in people's garages because they were more into the idea of cycling than the cycling itself. In you situation, I'd go with a stock bike in the less than $2K price range from a good LBS that can help with fitting, and see how much you really love cycling. If, after a year or so, you want to upgrade, then you could keep the first bike as a trainer/bad weather bike and go custom or higher-end stock. By then you'll know what works for you, what doesn't, any oddball fit issues you might have, and the like.

And I also agree with others here that you don't need the electronic shifters. I've ridden in many hilly areas, and the shifting just takes a bit of practice; it is not rocket science at all. Sure, you may want it, but you don't need it.

Just get a good-enough bike and go ride. Lots!

[maillotpois]

Well, it's mostly an indication of my low experience level but because we do ride through quite a bit of hilly terrain, there's a lot of shifting involved on a regular basis throughout our rides. I get a little anxious with the frequent up/down shifting when I'm a little late and there's the announcement of my inadequacies through the squirm-inducing sounds of chain crunching. The digital shifters I tried were so fast at shifting, it forgave my mis-shifts. The shifting felt really nice! After I rode with them, I went back to riding mechanical shifters and it was tough to forget the electronic shifting sensation in comparison.

I'd suggest mastering regular shifting first, working on your skills, before immediately beginning to rely on technology to do it for you. It'll make you a better cyclist. :)

To that end, I've done a lot of skills coaching, used to coach century riders and Death Ride for TNT and would be happy to take you out and work on skills some day if you want to shoot me a PM. We do have plenty of hills, and I suspect you'll be so much happier with your riding if you work on those skills. I ride very high end bikes and wouldn't dream of putting my money into electronic shifting. I'd rather put it into a super frame or Campy record or great wheels. Not that there's anything wrong with it - and I know there are a few folks here who have it. But all of them were cyclists who had mastered the basic skills before buying the electronic.

[Becky]

Ride bikes, lots of them. Ride stuff that you think you'll love and stuff that you think you'll hate. Ride different sizes of the same model- you might be surprised by what feels right. Ride stuff at all price points. Is the $5000 bike twice as good as the $2500 bike, or does the $2500 bike feel just as good, but have slightly heavier components?

Every bike that I've ever owned has helped me further define my preferences, even if one or two have turned out to be the wrong bike. While I'd have preferred to get it right every time, the experience has been invaluable.

I agree with those who suggested going with a stock bike if the fit is right and working on the shifting skills. It quickly becomes second nature.

[Kathi]

I looked up your shop. Your fitting was done by SICI (Serotta) trained fitters. That doesn't mean that your fit is geared towards any particular brand of bike, it helps the fitter determine the best geometry for you. Many fitters are SICI trained but sell brands other than Serotta. A 2-3 hr fitting is not unusual, anything less is considered a sizing, not a fitting. I'm sure you paid a good price for the fitting.

I'm not a good one to speak to electronic shifters but I'm in agreement with the others. Learn how to shift on hills first. I think once you get a road bike and get a feel for the shifting you'll be pleasantly surprised how easy it is.

Be aware that if a stock bike has to be fitted with adjustments such as a shorter and higher rise stem or lots of spacers to raise the handlebars, saddle all the way foward, etc. the bike doesn't fit. Such adjustments will affect the handling.

One other thought, when I moved to Colorado from the midwest I wasn't used to the longer downhills and mtn passes we have here. They scared me as I wasn't sure how to handle them. I learned to ride in my drops but my stock frame, with adjustments to improve fit, was twitchy and unpredictable. In comparasion, my custom frame is so stable on downhills that I no longer feel intimidated, even on long mtn passes with switchbacks. I attribute that to the fit but also to the custom built wheels that aren't so stiff that I get bounced all over the place.

[TigerMom]

I forgot to mention that I have a friend who bikes at least 200miles per week and has been biking for over 10 years. He LOVES his electronic shifters.

However, he did have to have his girlfriend pick him up by car when he forgot to charge up his electronic shifter battery because the bike was stuck in only one gear when the battery ran out.:( Something to think about in regards to electronic shifters.
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[SFLiz]

I've read each and every response several times. I'm floored over the excellent advice you have all offered me and I've really taken it all to heart.

I understand the reasoning behind many of the opinions that I'm not at the stage to be riding an expensive bike because I don't know what I don't know yet. I do know that, in the past three years I've been riding a MTB, FlatBar and folding bike, I love going on rides averaging in the 40-50 mile range on a weekend day. I really have taken to cycling and don't foresee losing interest. I tend to keep with a hobby sport. I've been a semi-serious runner since I was 15yo until about 5 years ago when I decided I had to break from the activity due to my knees. I took up golfing ten years ago as a break from the monotony of grad school and it stuck. I still enjoy getting out and playing. In fact, my adoption of that sport parallels my current situation. When I first started learning golf, I had to get a set of clubs. I've always been someone who only buys something after somewhat intense consideration of options and then staying with what I have. (Cars especially.) At the time I picked up golf, I thought about buying a cheap starter type set like AMF to get me going. Without boring you with the details, I decided to buy some nice Callaway VFTs of which at the time I was unworthy at my level (complete beginner). I'll spare you from my decision-making justifications. Point is, I still play with these clubs; have never considered upgrading. Still love the feel of my clubs because neither time nor technology has changed the fact that they are quality clubs. Yeah, I've changed my swing slightly as I've developed as a golfer, but the clubs are forgiving enough that I'm happy with them 10 years later.

Another example is piano. I learned to play starting at around age 11 or so. To this day, I play the same piano my mom could afford when I was a kid (it's not a great piano) but it's still pretty good and good enough that I wouldn't upgrade --- hey, I'm never becoming a concert pianist and I'm fine with that realization. It's all about enjoying your hobbies.

However, from everyone's advice on this forum, my understanding is that with cycling, it might not be the case that quality equals good choice because we change a lot more as cyclists than as golfers let's say. Unless there is someone on this forum who is also a long-time golfer (if so, perhaps she can speak to an analogous evolution in terms of athlete and equipment), I don't think I can apply my general philosophy - that of trying to buy the best my budget allows at the start and then growing into the quality of the equipment as the caliber of my skills improve - to cycling. This is very good to know. Cycling does seem quite unique in this respect. For most other hobbies in my life to which I can apply my experience, I've had positive reinforcement in obtaining the highest quality I could get at the start so that I could grow into it. Not so, maybe, for cycling as we evolve as cyclists.

This is a valuable understanding to arrive at through everyone's comments and advice. Thanks again to everyone who took their precious time out of their days to read, consider and offer thoughtful advice to this newbie. Perhaps someday I'll see one of you out there on the road (mostly likely the back of your head) - ;)

Thanks again.

[SFLiz]

However, he did have to have his girlfriend pick him up by car when he forgot to charge up his electronic shifter battery because the bike was stuck in only one gear when the battery ran out. Something to think about in regards to electronic shifters.

Hilarious, TigerMom - I know because when we rented our Madones, my husband's battery ran out (damn bike shop didn't check before renting to us), and he was spinning like a rat on a wheel. I was laughing :D hee hee but only because it wasn't me... we had to call to get help.

[indysteel]

I'm not a golfer, so I can't help there, but it's an interesting analogy.

I think some of the push-back you've gotten on going high-end and/or custom from the start is an attitude among many of us that top-of-the-line doesn't necessary translate to a substantially better experience on the road. It's not a question of growing into a $5k bike, but whether the $5k bike is measurably better than, say, a $3k bike. For some, it is. For many though, the distinction, if not totally lost, is not appreciated enough to make up for the price difference.

But as Tulip said upthread, there's no one right answer. There's no one right/perfect bike for all of us. Assuming you're not bankrupting yourself to buy the bike you want, then there's really no shame in buying the bike you want. But then we circle back to how to even articulate your wants and needs when you don't have a ton of experience. For me, that's the real rub. Not whether you should buy a bike you can grow into, but whether you know which bike you really want to grow into. There are so many variables. You might choose wisely or with regret. Of course, experience doesn't necessarily shield you from regret, but it often help.

[tulip]

SFLiz, you don't have to justify anything here, let's just get that clear. If you want a $5k+ bike, then go for it. It doesn't affect us one way or the other. Enjoy your bike, whatever it turns out to be. Do learn to change your tubes and do basic maintenance and repairs, though. And if you get the electronic stuff, remember to charge it up. Any chance they come with solar or friction chargers so that they could be charged while you're riding the bike? That would be very cool indeed.

[Catrin]

You may also find, as many of us have, that as we ride longer we find ourselves buying different types of bikes for different types of riding as our interests and experiences change. The important thing is to ride!

[Owlie]

I've read each and every response several times. I'm floored over the excellent advice you have all offered me and I've really taken it all to heart.

I understand the reasoning behind many of the opinions that I'm not at the stage to be riding an expensive bike because I don't know what I don't know yet. I do know that, in the past three years I've been riding a MTB, FlatBar and folding bike, I love going on rides averaging in the 40-50 mile range on a weekend day. I really have taken to cycling and don't foresee losing interest. I tend to keep with a hobby sport. I've been a semi-serious runner since I was 15yo until about 5 years ago when I decided I had to break from the activity due to my knees. I took up golfing ten years ago as a break from the monotony of grad school and it stuck. I still enjoy getting out and playing. In fact, my adoption of that sport parallels my current situation. When I first started learning golf, I had to get a set of clubs. I've always been someone who only buys something after somewhat intense consideration of options and then staying with what I have. (Cars especially.) At the time I picked up golf, I thought about buying a cheap starter type set like AMF to get me going. Without boring you with the details, I decided to buy some nice Callaway VFTs of which at the time I was unworthy at my level (complete beginner). I'll spare you from my decision-making justifications. Point is, I still play with these clubs; have never considered upgrading. Still love the feel of my clubs because neither time nor technology has changed the fact that they are quality clubs. Yeah, I've changed my swing slightly as I've developed as a golfer, but the clubs are forgiving enough that I'm happy with them 10 years later.

Another example is piano. I learned to play starting at around age 11 or so. To this day, I play the same piano my mom could afford when I was a kid (it's not a great piano) but it's still pretty good and good enough that I wouldn't upgrade --- hey, I'm never becoming a concert pianist and I'm fine with that realization. It's all about enjoying your hobbies.

However, from everyone's advice on this forum, my understanding is that with cycling, it might not be the case that quality equals good choice because we change a lot more as cyclists than as golfers let's say. Unless there is someone on this forum who is also a long-time golfer (if so, perhaps she can speak to an analogous evolution in terms of athlete and equipment), I don't think I can apply my general philosophy - that of trying to buy the best my budget allows at the start and then growing into the quality of the equipment as the caliber of my skills improve - to cycling. This is very good to know. Cycling does seem quite unique in this respect. For most other hobbies in my life to which I can apply my experience, I've had positive reinforcement in obtaining the highest quality I could get at the start so that I could grow into it. Not so, maybe, for cycling as we evolve as cyclists.

This is a valuable understanding to arrive at through everyone's comments and advice. Thanks again to everyone who took their precious time out of their days to read, consider and offer thoughtful advice to this newbie. Perhaps someday I'll see one of you out there on the road (mostly likely the back of your head) - ;)

Thanks again.

You should absolutely buy the best bike you can afford that meets your needs. However, in my humble opinion, buying an off-the-rack bike is much better for your budget than going custom unless 1) you have fit issues that cannot be solved with standard (or advanced) after-market fit adjustments, or it would VERY costly to do so and/or 2) can't find what you need off-the-rack (that fits). This is for a few reasons that everyone has covered: you don't know what you don't know, and you change as a cyclist--your riding style changes, your goals change, etc. (I started out thinking that I would never want a go-fast bike. And now I'm looking at aggressive carbon frames.) In addition, the manufacturer gets a far better deal on components than you ever will. You can upgrade parts as you go, provided you get the fit right from the start.

I do understand the desire for a bike that isn't like everyone else's, but it is much harder to get away from if for some reason it doesn't work out. It's much easier to sell a mass-produced bike.
Unless you're racing or have specific fit issues, I'm not sure that the extra money that custom requires is necessary, and the same goes for electronic shifting. If that's what you want and can afford, by all means, get it and post pictures when it arrives. :) But I strongly recommend that you test-ride several stock bikes.

(Confession: I absolutely do have fantasies of a custom steel cyclocross/light touring bike in British racing green. Maybe one day. ;) )

[pll]

I would not go custom in a first road bike. Relative to a mountain bike, hybrid or flat bar road bike, the position is more aggressive. So, what you say feels stretched out might be simply the new position. The fitter who took your measurements for a custom bike should be able to recommend a few bikes to try (that is how I decided on mine). My vote would be for experience buying and riding a road bike with reasonable components and then splurge. You will know better what you need.

[Miranda]

I've tried SRAM before and thought it was rough compared to Shimano. So I'm a Shimano girl forever. Just love it. Know how it works. Performs well. However, I would not get the electronic shifting. I haven't tried it. But it just seems things that are electronic in general have glitches that randomly go wrong without reason. The old school is simplier to figure out the obvious. And I like simple.

I had an ill fitting sickening waste of money first road bike. That was stock. But sold to me two frame sizes too large from the LBS. Thus, I really took my time getting my next bike. It's stock. But not a stock size that is common. My lbs told me that my size is about 1 in 1000 customers that walk thru their doors. I had to drive 5hrs round trip to get her. And actually ordered her sight unseen from out of the country. But still a stock brand bike.

The key is finding a good fitter that will give you your ideal geometry to start your search. It will not matter how nice the components, paint job is, etc. if the bikes fit sucks. Out of upgrades I can say that wheels, and the type do make a difference I notice. But that's easy enough to do later. And extra wheels are always a nice thing to have.

Now girlfriend, about that pantry upgrade addtion thing... you should really get that if you want it... most people eat a lot more than they have time to ride their bikes... the bike upgrade dream is always there and waiting.

GOOD LUCK!

[Becky]

You may also find, as many of us have, that as we ride longer we find ourselves buying different types of bikes for different types of riding as our interests and experiences change. The important thing is to ride!

This, for me, sums it up. Both my riding style and my bike fit have changed as I've become more proficient and as I've discovered new types of riding.

[Catrin]

This, for me, sums it up. Both my riding style and my bike fit have changed as I've become more proficient and as I've discovered new types of riding.

Yes, this. The bikes I ride now are quite different from my first bike - I am very glad I didn't go for custom or even very expensive to start with - thought that first bike wasn't cheap. Eventually I did go with custom because of both my size and certain fit related issues, but it would have been a mistake for me to have done that right off the bat.

[Crankin]

I never thought I'd be coveting an around town mixte with a basket.
Of course, this has to wait until I live in a part of town that's flat.
I wonder if there's a townhouse that will have room for 6 bikes?

[SFLiz]

Now girlfriend, about that pantry upgrade addtion thing... you should really get that if you want it... most people eat a lot more than they have time to ride their bikes... the bike upgrade dream is always there and waiting.

GOOD LUCK!

Thanks to all your wise advice, I made the jump and bought a 2013 Ruby Comp Compact yesterday. I test rode it for 20 miles yesterday. Rode very nicely; no digital shifting needed, just as you all advised. I feel like I owe all of you who responded a great big hug of gratitude for talking me off the ledge. After all your responses, I went back to the custom bike shop prepared to let the owner know I was leaning strongly toward off-the-rack; however, they had prepped two shop Seven bikes to fit us very closely (we got our fittings done here so they knew exactly what we needed for geometry) and told us to go out and take however long a ride we wanted. DH's was a pure ti bike and mine was a ti-carbon composite with digital shifters. We took them on a decent ride along the great hwy and up and down some healthy hills, through the Presidio, Golden Gate park and back into the heart of the city. We fell in love with these bikes - they were luxurious rides. There is no doubt about their quality. The rides felt phenomenal. Returning to the shop and after talking to the owner, we (my husband more so than I) again leaned toward custom but somehow now we were looking at each buying an $8k bike. It was getting way too crazy. Yeah, you read right -- we were thinking about plunking down $16k. :eek:

Fortunately, I shook myself out of our trances, and returned to this forum and reread the responses, gave serious thought to what we were contemplating and decided to get my and my dh's butts back to the lbs to try and ride a bike many of you would approve as a more-than-sufficient starter road bike. Test riding the Ruby Comp Compact was mind-clearing. I decided mid-ride that this was my first road bike. My dh test rode the Roubaix along with me. We took some decent climbs and descents and both almost simultaneously recognized that these bikes were great for our purposes. He ended up buying a 2013 Roubaix Expert as well. For less than the price of one custom, we got two very good OTR bikes to enjoy together and with which to grow as cyclists.

AND BEST OF ALL, I GET MY KITCHEN PANTRY + SMALL REMODEL! I'm so thrilled. Miranda --- you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT when you said I use my kitchen way more!!! I am thrilled about getting my pantry and upgrading my cabinetry. The small remodel job costs the same as one custom bike so in effect, we got two bikes that meet our needs nicely AND my kitchen remodel. I am so happy!!! Thanks, Ladies. You are wonderful. Collectively you make this forum an awesome resource. I actually cannot tell you which one I'm more excited about - picking up our new bikes this weekend or having my kitchen improved! Oh, and this includes a small wine cooler.... :D <happy happy dance>

[emily_in_nc]

Wonderful, awesome news! You are a smart and thoughtful woman, and it sounds like you did exactly the right thing. Enjoy your new bike AND your renovated kitchen. The best of both worlds!

[TigerMom]

Thanks to all your wise advice, I made the jump and bought a 2013 Ruby Comp Compact yesterday. I test rode it for 20 miles yesterday. Rode very nicely; no digital shifting needed, just as you all advised. I feel like I owe all of you who responded a great big hug of gratitude for talking me off the ledge. After all your responses, I went back to the custom bike shop prepared to let the owner know I was leaning strongly toward off-the-rack; however, they had prepped two shop Seven bikes to fit us very closely (we got our fittings done here so they knew exactly what we needed for geometry) and told us to go out and take however long a ride we wanted. DH's was a pure ti bike and mine was a ti-carbon composite with digital shifters. We took them on a decent ride along the great hwy and up and down some healthy hills, through the Presidio, Golden Gate park and back into the heart of the city. We fell in love with these bikes - they were luxurious rides. There is no doubt about their quality. The rides felt phenomenal. Returning to the shop and after talking to the owner, we (my husband more so than I) again leaned toward custom but somehow now we were looking at each buying an $8k bike. It was getting way too crazy. Yeah, you read right -- we were thinking about plunking down $16k. :eek:

Fortunately, I shook myself out of our trances, and returned to this forum and reread the responses, gave serious thought to what we were contemplating and decided to get my and my dh's butts back to the lbs to try and ride a bike many of you would approve as a more-than-sufficient starter road bike. Test riding the Ruby Comp Compact was mind-clearing. I decided mid-ride that this was my first road bike. My dh test rode the Roubaix along with me. We took some decent climbs and descents and both almost simultaneously recognized that these bikes were great for our purposes. He ended up buying a 2013 Roubaix Expert as well. For less than the price of one custom, we got two very good OTR bikes to enjoy together and with which to grow as cyclists.

AND BEST OF ALL, I GET MY KITCHEN PANTRY + SMALL REMODEL! I'm so thrilled. Miranda --- you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT when you said I use my kitchen way more!!! I am thrilled about getting my pantry and upgrading my cabinetry. The small remodel job costs the same as one custom bike so in effect, we got two bikes that meet our needs nicely AND my kitchen remodel. I am so happy!!! Thanks, Ladies. You are wonderful. Collectively you make this forum an awesome resource. I actually cannot tell you which one I'm more excited about - picking up our new bikes this weekend or having my kitchen improved! Oh, and this includes a small wine cooler.... :D <happy happy dance>

Wow! You now have the best of both worlds. Awesome "starter" road bikes AND a kitchen remodel. If you have leftover money, you can get yourself another present of lighter, faster wheelsets.

Pictures please!
____________________________________

2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[SFLiz]

Thanks, Emily and TigerMom. I'll post pics after I pick the bike up this weekend. Can't wait to ride it. Pics of my kitchen upgrade will take a few weeks, if anyone is interested. Work won't start for at least a week or two.

[SFLiz]

15385

Enjoyed wonderful weather Saturday on a fab 45-mile ride through Marin Co. Was worried about poorer performance on climbs since I didn't get the Amira but my Rubes climbed like a champ up 14% grades with still a gear unused. Pure happiness. Can't wait for the weekend again. No pics of kitchen work yet - work starts this Thursday.

[TigerMom]

15385

Enjoyed wonderful weather Saturday on a fab 45-mile ride through Marin Co. Was worried about poorer performance on climbs since I didn't get the Amira but my Rubes climbed like a champ up 14% grades with still a gear unused. Pure happiness. Can't wait for the weekend again. No pics of kitchen work yet - work starts this Thursday.

You must be super strong to climb up 14% grade with still one unused gear. Congrats on your new bike!

___________________________________________________________________
2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle
2010 Santa Cruz Juliana with R kit and Crampon pedals
2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle (sold)