Rear wheel dusty spinouts when climbing

[Catrin]

I've had several hard falls this summer due to my rear wheel spinning out on dusty curves on the trail. If my memory serves me correctly, each time I was climbing and thus my weight would be more forward on the bike. I THINK that I was in the granny gear each time, though I am unsure of that. I was today.

MTB falls are just going to happen, that is a given. Is there something that might be going on with my body position that could make this more likely? I believe I had just down-shifted the rear to get up the hill... I've seen far more dust on the trails earlier in the summer, but there was still a good amount of dust present. I seem to be prone to this type of fall so I suspect it is something I am doing...or NOT doing.

[Hi Ho Silver]

I was taught that when climbing a loose surface, one should-
a) shift to a higher (i.e., harder) gear, and
b) assume the same position as a jockey riding a horse - your butt should be hovering slightly above and behind the saddle, your torso should be bent down.

The higher gear is required because you'll be using your full body weight on the pedals so you can power up the hill (rather than spin up the hill). The "jockey position" allows you to dynamically shift your weight enough to the rear to maintain traction if you feel the rear tire starting to spin out.

[Catrin]

hmmm, I am picturing this. So being bent forward you still have weight on the front wheel, and it doesn't sound like I would need to shift my rear much to get in the right position. I will experiment with this, almost every fall I've had this summer (outside of when I tested the laws of physics with the front brake) has been exactly this kind of fall. My poor right hip and shoulder is taking a beating from hitting the ground so I need to do something different.

Thanks - and if anyone else has other thoughts or advice please do add them. I had wondered about my gearing - but of course was also trying to climb at the same time. In this case I was on a new trail to me and wasn't sure how long the climb would go - which is why I was in the granny. It was still fun though ;)

[laura*]

I've had several hard falls this summer due to my rear wheel spinning out on dusty curves on the trail. If my memory serves me correctly, each time I was climbing and thus my weight would be more forward on the bike.

Do you mean that you were climbing, the rear wheel lost traction, started spinning, and the loss of forward power made you crash? If so - learn to recognize the situation, be prepared to slam on the brakes and plant both feet on the ground.

Or do you mean that were going around the corner and the rear wheel slipped sideways to the outside of the turn? This probably means you were leaned over too much. When I was riding a lot on knobby tires, somehow or other I learned to keep the bike somewhat perpendicular to the (road or trail) surface. (I think this is because once the front tire skidded sideways when I was leaned over going around a fast corner.) If the speed of the turn required a lean, I'd move my body over, but keep the bike mostly upright. Sheldon et al. say not to do this - it imparts significant non-normal forces in the bike. However, some tires simply aren't able to grip off of perpendicular. Or they might deform, letting the rim roll towards the outside. In summary, be constantly aware of how your tires are contacting the ground and don't ask more of them than they are able to perform.

[Catrin]

....
Or do you mean that were going around the corner and the rear wheel slipped sideways to the outside of the turn? This probably means you were leaned over too much. When I was riding a lot on knobby tires, somehow or other I learned to keep the bike somewhat perpendicular to the (road or trail) surface. (I think this is because once the front tire skidded sideways when I was leaned over going around a fast corner.) If the speed of the turn required a lean, I'd move my body over, but keep the bike mostly upright. Sheldon et al. say not to do this - it imparts significant non-normal forces in the bike. However, some tires simply aren't able to grip off of perpendicular. Or they might deform, letting the rim roll towards the outside. In summary, be constantly aware of how your tires are contacting the ground and don't ask more of them than they are able to perform.


It is the second of your scenarios - I seem to ALWAYS be in a curve to the right when this happens, and the rear wheel skids out from under me toward the outside of the turn, exactly as you describe. I don't believe that it has ever happened on a curve to the left. This sideways slide happens FAST - perhaps the presence of the dust just adds to the effect. I also didn't think I was leaning, but that doesn't mean I wasn't. I do know I've learned unconsciously in the past (people told me later) so I wouldn't be surprised. There are never obstacles when this happens, typically just a right-hand uphill curve with lots of dust...

The first situation you describe I can easily stop with brakes - and I don't clip in so I can just brake and put my foot down. I am pretty darn good at stopping fast on the trail...

[indysteel]

Catrin, are you running the tires that came stock on your Jamis? According to Jamis' website, the bike came with Geax Mezcal. I just read some reviews of that tire on MTBR that consistently complained about bad traction in dry, loose conditions. If those are your tires, you might talk to Jonathan about getting some tires known for a bit more grip (or just replace your rear tire). Yes, you'll encounter more rolling resistance, but I think that's better than losing traction and slipping out.

[tzvia]

Unless it just rained, our trails are a mix of dust/sand over hardpack or dust over sand and roots. Sometimes, just climbing, the rear would break loose and it was always because I was not cranking smoothly, but torquing in bursts. In your case, you are in a turn, so it may be due to you leaning a bit and maybe bit of torquing? I am thinking the rear tire is spinning in jerking motions, not smoothly as you claw your way up. With a slight lean during such torque-down on the pedal in really loosely packed dust while turning, the rear tire could just kick out.

I've been trying to keep my rear end weighing down the back, while I lower myself from the waist 'tits to the tube' I think is the term. Raising and lowering my torso as needed for the incline is all I do to keep the weight centered between both wheels. Now if only I could muster a nice smooth spin, pulling up and pushing down fluidly instead of looking like a fish on a boat deck...

It also helps to have the right tire for the application. Been using a Specialized Captain Control in back (2.0), and it is ok, not great. Also have a Tioga Psycho Genius on another wheelset (front and back) and it is so much better in sand and pebbly stuff. Tires can make a big difference.

[Becky]

All good suggestions. I would also, in addition to considering tire choice, consider your tire pressure.

Are you standing or seated when you break traction on climbs?

[laura*]

I also didn't think I was leaning, but that doesn't mean I wasn't. I do know I've learned unconsciously in the past (people told me later) so I wouldn't be surprised.

To make a turn on a bicycle requires leaning - it's simple physics - one needs to balance centrifugal force with gravitational force. Of course turning very slowly needs very little lean. The conventional advice is for the rider to stay centered on the bike and to lean the whole rider and bike unit. That works in a criterium with a perfect road surface...


I seem to ALWAYS be in a curve to the right when this happens

I wonder if your attention is leading your position on the trail. In other words, while still in the turn, your mind has already moved on to the straight section - and you move your body toward it. With this always happening in the same direction, maybe it is a dominant eye related thing.


I agree with indysteel about trying a different tire.

[Catrin]

Catrin, are you running the tires that came stock on your Jamis? According to Jamis' website, the bike came with Geax Mezcal. I just read some reviews of that tire on MTBR that consistently complained about bad traction in dry, loose conditions. If those are your tires, you might talk to Jonathan about getting some tires known for a bit more grip (or just replace your rear tire). Yes, you'll encounter more rolling resistance, but I think that's better than losing traction and slipping out.

Yep, same tires that came with my bike. I don't care about more rolling resistance, I am not racing, just out there for fun anyway. I've worked hard to get strong legs so I want to use them ;) After reading your post I went to MTBR and read the same reviews. Am already researching my options - at least for the rear. No trail riding until I replace that tire! As the Jamis XC Comp is a race bike the tires were probably meant for that - I read where someone referred to them as "semi-slicks". I've not really looked at other mtb tires before so perhaps, in comparison, they are? I guess race tires would need to be a compromise between rolling resistance, weight, and grip - though surely the latter would win out but what do I know?


Unless it just rained, our trails are a mix of dust/sand over hardpack or dust over sand and roots. Sometimes, just climbing, the rear would break loose and it was always because I was not cranking smoothly, but torquing in bursts. In your case, you are in a turn, so it may be due to you leaning a bit and maybe bit of torquing? I am thinking the rear tire is spinning in jerking motions, not smoothly as you claw your way up. With a slight lean during such torque-down on the pedal in really loosely packed dust while turning, the rear tire could just kick out.

This is a good thought and hadn't considered it. I honestly do not know if I crank smoothly or torquing in bursts. I will try to pay attention to do this next time I ride. Thanks for the tire recommendation, I am starting to research my choices but there are many to choose from. We have had a brutal drought this year, and on previous rides I've seen much deeper dust than yesterday.


All good suggestions. I would also, in addition to considering tire choice, consider your tire pressure.

Are you standing or seated when you break traction on climbs?

For the trails I ride, I run 30psi. I am a small woman and was advised by the folks at the mountain bike clinic at that same park that this was appropriate for my weight and size for those trails.


....

I wonder if your attention is leading your position on the trail. In other words, while still in the turn, your mind has already moved on to the straight section - and you move your body toward it. With this always happening in the same direction, maybe it is a dominant eye related thing.


I agree with indysteel about trying a different tire.

Laura - thanks again - of course we have to lean to corner, but it makes sense to me if the tire doesn't grip well and we might lean over too much that this would contribute to the problem. I THINK I am past this however, back when I first started last year I would lean over much too far on parts of the trail that scared me - and of course I had to stop because I was over too far.

As far as my attention, I try to keep my eyes on where I am headed. So, yesterday I had just started to climb a hill that appeared to be fairly steep with few obstacles so I geared down just 1 click (rear) and focused on what appeared to be the top (it wasn't). It was just after that I entered the curve that bit me. It is my practice when looking ahead to look around and up the trail rather than *just* looking at the top. The fall came at the bend of the curve if that makes sense.

I am unsure what you mean that this might be dominant eye related. It may be I've not had enough coffee yet, but it might be helpful if you would like to say something more about this.

I appreciate the comments and helping me think this out. I am feeling much better about this, even if I do have war wounds ;) I am bound and determined to finish this season stronger than when I started, and more comfortable on the intermediate trails. It felt awesome yesterday to FINALLY break free of the one trail I've been riding for 2 months.

[OakLeaf]

+1 on smoothing out your pedal stroke. As you know I'm not a MTB'er, but it's pretty easy to spin the rear on a road bike too. One-legged drills, cadence intervals, riding rollers if you have them - all those will help you pedal in even circles instead of "big bang" squares.

[spokewench]

It is positioning on a mountain bike. You need to keep weight over back and front of bike; so you need to crouch down lower than you would on a road bike to keep the weight over the back wheel a bit; also off road the hill can be steeper so you still have to keep the weight over the front wheel more as well or you will start to wheelie; it is a balancing act so you can be totally static on the bike. Smooth, smooth pedal strokes when it is really loose.

[Becky]

It's been my experience that some tires have a nice transition from centerline to side knobs and can be gradually leaned in a turn, while others have fewer transition knobs and like to be "thrown" into a turn by an aggressive rider. I greatly prefer the former. Something to look for when you're reading reviews...

Also, not to beat the tire pressure horse too much, but I think it bears a second look. Breaking traction is often a symptom of overinflated tires for the bike, rider, and conditions combo.

You and I are the same weight, +/- a few pounds, and I run my tires in the 22-24 psi range. My DH, who is twice my size, runs his at 30-32 psi. Maybe lower pressures are something to experiment with? You can always pump them back up if you don't like the ride.

[laura*]

I am unsure what you mean that this might be dominant eye related. It may be I've not had enough coffee yet, but it might be helpful if you would like to say something more about this.

The thought is that (assuming your right eye is dominant) in a right hand turn, your right eye has an unobstructed view of the trail ahead. Then, like a child in a candy store, your attention "runs" forward before you're done with the turn. In a left hand turn, that same eye might stay better focused on the turn itself.

Another thought: Haven't you posted that your left ankle was surgically repaired? And as a result you are more powerful with the right leg? I think it's been written that in a turn one should put more force on the outside pedal - which would be the left pedal in the turns when you fell to the right.

[Hi Ho Silver]

To make a turn on a bicycle requires leaning - it's simple physics - one needs to balance centrifugal force with gravitational force. Of course turning very slowly needs very little lean. The conventional advice is for the rider to stay centered on the bike and to lean the whole rider and bike unit. That works in a criterium with a perfect road surface...


The problem with the above advice is the stated condition "with a perfect road surface". I recall reading an article ages ago by Alexi Grewal (I think...) that discussed cornering when the surface is wet or otherwise imperfect. His advice was to lean the bike, but keep your weight centered over the path the bike is taking (i.e., the line connecting the points where the front and rear tires contact the surface). From a physics perspective, this reduces the lateral forces on the tires and helps to prevent the tires slipping off to the sides. I've tried to follow his advice on wet roads, and it does seem to help prevent side-slip.

[Catrin]

The thought is that (assuming your right eye is dominant) in a right hand turn, your right eye has an unobstructed view of the trail ahead. Then, like a child in a candy store, your attention "runs" forward before you're done with the turn. In a left hand turn, that same eye might stay better focused on the turn itself.

Another thought: Haven't you posted that your left ankle was surgically repaired? And as a result you are more powerful with the right leg? I think it's been written that in a turn one should put more force on the outside pedal - which would be the left pedal in the turns when you fell to the right.

Hmmmm, this is very helpful. It IS true that while both of my legs are quite strong, my right one is certainly stronger. I am going to think about your description of the eye/attention - it makes sense that if my right eye is dominant, and the curve is to the right, that my eye doesn't really have the same perspective as it does on a left curve. Of course I need to also look ahead and through whatever is coming - it is about the right balance of attention.

I took the mtb to my LBS early this afternoon and I am putting a very different tire on the rear. I wish I could afford to replace both of them at the same time, but I can't. I will need to replace the front when the leaves and wet trails of fall come. My LBS highly recommended the Continental Mountain King for the trails I ride - they also ride the same tires on the same trails. They also recommended I drop the PSI as well. These tires have mixed reviews, but then again, one can make oneself crazy by reading reviews. People I trust tell me these tires are perfect for the trails I ride and they ride them as well - good enough for me ;) I understand Continental did make changes in the Mountain Kings for 2011 that addressed some earlier problems.

I don't know how it will feel to have the minimal Geax on the front and more aggressive Mountain King in the rear, but I hope to find out next weekend. If I find the combination troublesome then I will replace the front sooner rather than later.

[Catrin]

.....

Also, not to beat the tire pressure horse too much, but I think it bears a second look. Breaking traction is often a symptom of overinflated tires for the bike, rider, and conditions combo.

You and I are the same weight, +/- a few pounds, and I run my tires in the 22-24 psi range. My DH, who is twice my size, runs his at 30-32 psi. Maybe lower pressures are something to experiment with? You can always pump them back up if you don't like the ride.

Thank you for this information - my LBS guy today already went there. I didn't realize that 30psi was so high - especially since the range on my sidewalls starts at 35... He got my attention when he told me that he could almost ride that and he is twice my height, not going to guess his weight.

It was suggested I try 28 and will see what that feels like. Here is a link to my new rear tire (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/mtb/cc_marathon/MountainKing22/MountainKing22_en.html) - though the knobbies look closer together in person than they do in the link photo.

[Artista]

You and I are the same weight, +/- a few pounds, and I run my tires in the 22-24 psi range. My DH, who is twice my size, runs his at 30-32 psi.
Hijack;) Becky, it seems that the wider the tires, the lower the pressure we can run. What width tires are you running at 22-24psi? Mine are 2.1. I've been running them at about 30 psi and would like to try lower but I'm not sure what's too low for 2.1's and a 130# rider.

[Becky]

Thank you for this information - my LBS guy today already went there. I didn't realize that 30psi was so high - especially since the range on my sidewalls starts at 35... He got my attention when he told me that he could almost ride that and he is twice my height, not going to guess his weight.

It was suggested I try 28 and will see what that feels like. Here is a link to my new rear tire (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/mtb/cc_marathon/MountainKing22/MountainKing22_en.html) - though the knobbies look closer together in person than they do in the link photo.

I'm glad to hear that you purchased a new tire. I think you'll find that you do want a beefier tire up front as well, but I certainly understand the money thing! Your LBS is often the best source for tire recommendations, as the employees are riding the same trails and roads as you.


Hijack;) Becky, it seems that the wider the tires, the lower the pressure we can run. What width tires are you running at 22-24psi? Mine are 2.1. I've been running them at about 30 psi and would like to try lower but I'm not sure what's too low for 2.1's and a 130# rider.

Y'know, it's funny...I'm running two different sets of tires, in two different sizes, on two different bikes, and one tubeless, one not. And yet I find that I use very similar pressures (when measured on my pump). FWIW, I'm ~126 lbs right now, maybe more like 135 lbs. with gear and Camelbak.

Full-suspension bike:
26 x 2.1 Schwalbe Racing Ralphs with tubes
These are new tires for me, so I'm still fiddling with pressures. Right now, I'm liking the front at 22psi or so, and a smidge more in the rear. This particular tire gets really "squirmy" in the rear when it's too low, so it's pretty obvious to me when I need more air. I always run new tires with tubes until I decide if I like them and what pressure I prefer, and then I do the tubeless conversion.

Rigid bike:
29 x 2.55 (2.35) WTB Weirwolf LT, tubeless.
I love these tires for our local trails during the summer. Fast, with great side knobs for cornering grip, and lots of volume for shock absorption. They're labeled as 2.55, but they measure more like a 2.35. 24psi seems to be just about right for these.

My MO, whenever I install new tires, is to start at 25 psi front and rear. I will then make small adjustments (usually downward) until I find the lowest pressure that allows me to corner comfortably without rolling a tire, feeling it "squirm", or pinch flatting.

Don't be afraid to play with your tire pressures in small increments. It's the cheapest experiment that you can do to a bike, and it may lead to greatly-improved handling.

[indysteel]

Thanks for that info, Becky. Remind me where you live (if you don't mind sharing). I'm curious as to what trails you generally ride.

[Becky]

Thanks for that info, Becky. Remind me where you live (if you don't mind sharing). I'm curious as to what trails you generally ride.

I'm in northern Delaware, and most of my riding is done here or in eastern Maryland. Our trails are mostly hardpack or loose over hard, with plenty of roots and smaller rocks. Occasionally, there are patches of sand and silt, particularly in flood plains and water crossings.

Occasionally, DH and I will head into Pennsylvania, where the rocks get bigger. I'm always up for a mountain biking road trip and some new terrain :)

[Artista]

Thanks, Becky. It sounds like I can go pretty significantly lower without causing too many problems. I'll start with 2-3psi less and keep going down until I find what I like.

[indysteel]

I'm in northern Delaware, and most of my riding is done here or in eastern Maryland. Our trails are mostly hardpack or loose over hard, with plenty of roots and smaller rocks. Occasionally, there are patches of sand and silt, particularly in flood plains and water crossings.

Occasionally, DH and I will head into Pennsylvania, where the rocks get bigger. I'm always up for a mountain biking road trip and some new terrain :)

Thanks for info! You should come out this way sometime!

[Becky]

Thanks for info! You should come out this way sometime!

In a heartbeat! Just need a guide :)

[indysteel]

In a heartbeat! Just need a guide :)

Happy to oblige! We need to have a TE weekend in Brown County one of these years. Hmmmm; there's an idea!

[Artista]

Happy to oblige! We need to have a TE weekend in Brown County one of these years. Hmmmm; there's an idea!
I would come from Denver!

[indysteel]

I would come from Denver!

That would be great! Honestly, I don't think it would be hard to put a weekend together. It's a question of deciding the best weekend to do it in terms of weather and when there's no conflict at the park. The only drawback to this area is that, as far as I know, there's no place to rent bikes for anybody flying in. I have a spare 15" HT, but that's it.

Anyway, it's certainly something to ponder!

[Artista]

Ya know, I would probably drive and bring my bike. But I just checked and it would be 2 full days of driving each way. I was thinking we were at least a few hours closer to each other:(

[Catrin]

There is a bike store in Columbus that rents mountain bikes, and I believe another one in Bloomington or the area. I would happily join on on a weekend TE camping/mtb trip! BGI in Indianapolis also rents mountain bikes. The Inn at Brown County State Park has decent rooms, and they also have family size cabins for rent.

[Catrin]

What difference should I expect in the handling of my Jamis with a more minimal tire in the front with a wider (I think), certainly more aggressive tire in the back? The Mountain King is 2.2 with certainly more rubber and knobbies, the Geax Mexcal is, I think, 2.1. I was told there would be a difference, it would be nice to have an idea what to expect so I can judge whether I need to take it to an easy trail first.

[indysteel]

What difference should I expect in the handling of my Jamis with a more minimal tire in the front with a wider (I think), certainly more aggressive tire in the back? The Mountain King is 2.2 with certainly more rubber and knobbies, the Geax Mexcal is, I think, 2.1. I was told there would be a difference, it would be nice to have an idea what to expect so I can judge whether I need to take it to an easy trail first.

I can't answer that question, but in an abundance of caution, why not just test it out on an easy trail regardless of what anybody tells you to expect?

[ridebikeme]

Good luck with your new rear tire Catrin! AS for your midwest, gals, I'd love to meet up and ride in Brown County again... one of my favorite areas in Indiana!

Back to tires, I generally ride Kenda Small Block 8's until the leaves drop, or it has been raining for quite some time then I'll swith over to the Nevegals. Lots of rocks, roots, here....

[indysteel]

I think I'll post a feeler early next year about a meetup in Brown County sometime over the summer. Fall is lovely in the park, but I imagine dime would have an easier time attending when school is out.

[Catrin]

I can't answer that question, but in an abundance of caution, why not just test it out on an easy trail regardless of what anybody tells you to expect?

True - and I would anyway - I just tend to over-think stuff


Good luck with your new rear tire Catrin! AS for your midwest, gals, I'd love to meet up and ride in Brown County again... one of my favorite areas in Indiana!

Back to tires, I generally ride Kenda Small Block 8's until the leaves drop, or it has been raining for quite some time then I'll swith over to the Nevegals. Lots of rocks, roots, here....

I've read good things about the Nevegals. The trails I ride do have rocks and roots but really are a mixture of hardpack (dust right now), with rooty/rocky sections. I am really looking forward to seeing what difference the new rear tire makes. I MIGHT go ahead and have them replace the front after examining my budget a bit further.

Indy - that sounds like a good idea about a summer (perhaps early?) TE BCSP gathering. It would probably make it a bit easier for those further away to travel.

[indysteel]

I was thinking probably sometime between late June to early August. Trail conditions aren't quite as reliable in early June. It seems that they start to really dry out by about the time of the clinic in mid-June. But I suppose it will really depend on what date works for the majority of people. I also would prefer to focus the gathering on mountain biking. Certainly, people who only do road riding would be welcome but I, personally, don't want to take responsibility for any road routes in and around Brown County. Too. much. work.

[Artista]

Might I suggest that you make it a co-ed weekend? More TE'ers may come from far away if they can travel with their SO. The men could do their own group rides or we could split up into co-ed groups of varying skill levels.

[Catrin]

Co-ed sounds like a good idea - and it might be nice to have it the week before or after the Women's Clinic - but of course we've plenty of time to work all of that out.

[indysteel]

Might I suggest that you make it a co-ed weekend? More TE'ers may come from far away if they can travel with their SO. The men could do their own group rides or we could split up into co-ed groups of varying skill levels.

Absolutely. My own husband would be sad if I spent a weekend out there without him.

[ridebikeme]

Definitely keep me in the lop Ladies: I'm definitely interested. I would tend to think each of us would schedule conflicts, so would simply suggest that you pick a time and go with it... those that want to come and ride will be there.;)

[indysteel]

Definitely keep me in the lop Ladies: I'm definitely interested. I would tend to think each of us would schedule conflicts, so would simply suggest that you pick a time and go with it... those that want to come and ride will be there.;)

We will definitely keep you in the loop, and you make a good point about just picking a date and running with it. My biggest concern is weather and the state of the trails. Of course, that's always a gamble. :rolleyes:

[Catrin]

We will definitely keep you in the loop, and you make a good point about just picking a date and running with it. My biggest concern is weather and the state of the trails. Of course, that's always a gamble. :rolleyes:

Exactly, there are no guarantees. Do we want to make this a weekday event and have it right after the Women's Clinic, or just pick the following weekend? The reason I am suggesting weekdays before or after the Clinic is some of us might be interested in attending the Clinic...but of course there would be a longer travel/vacation time commitment and that might not be feasible. The Midwest Women's MTB Clinic is always in mid-June. Both Indy and I know the organizer and it would be easy enough to get date confirmation. Registration typically starts in January - and she fills up faster each year.

[indysteel]

Exactly, there are no guarantees. Do we want to make this a weekday event and have it right after the Women's Clinic, or just pick the following weekend? The reason I am suggesting weekdays before or after the Clinic is some of us might be interested in attending the Clinic...but of course there would be a longer travel/vacation time commitment and that might not be feasible. The Midwest Women's MTB Clinic is always in mid-June. Both Indy and I know the organizer and it would be easy enough to get date confirmation. Registration typically starts in January - and she fills up faster each year.

One thought Catrin is to have the TE weekend the same weekend as the clinic. Those who want to participate can and those that want to stay an extra day either before or after the event can. There's still some down time where we can call visit, ride and hang out.

But these are just thoughts. I personally don't feel any pressing need to get anything sorted out now. Let's table all of this until later this year/early next year.

ETA: Certainly, even if we had it that weekend, TE members wouldn't have to participate in the clinic itself.

[Artista]

I like the idea of piggy-backing it with the clinic. That would require weekday group rides for the TE gathering, though. I could deal with the weekdays since I'd have to take vacation to attend anyway. Weekday TE rides may not be so popular with the local TE'ers, though.

[Artista]

I agree that nothing has to be decided now.

[indysteel]

I like the idea of piggy-backing it with the clinic. That would require weekday group rides for the TE gathering, though. I could deal with the weekdays since I'd have to take vacation to attend anyway. Weekday TE rides may not be so popular with the local TE'ers, though.

I have no problems taking a weekday off to ride and I'm guessing Catrin doesn't either. :D Boy, are the trails nice during a weekday. They're typically pretty empty.

[Catrin]

I have no problems taking a weekday off to ride and I'm guessing Catrin doesn't either. :D Boy, are the trails nice during a weekday. They're typically pretty empty.

For me this would be perfect! Take the Clinic on the weekend - which is quite full of activities, then ride the trails on Monday after everyone else has left and gone back to work? Sweet! Indeed I would probably choose just to stay/camp the entire week for my summer vacation :cool: ;)

This thread has really changed since I first started it - but I LIKE the direction it has taken!

[indysteel]

For me this would be perfect! Take the Clinic on the weekend - which is quite full of activities, then ride the trails on Monday after everyone else has left and gone back to work? Sweet! Indeed I would probably choose just to stay/camp the entire week for my summer vacation :cool: ;)

This thread has really changed since I first started it - but I LIKE the direction it has taken!

Yeah, talk about thread drift! Given when the clinic registration opens up, I'll put a feeler out in December or so to at least put a bug in people's ear. If the consenus is that people have no desire to combine the two things, then we can talk about doing it a separate weekend.

The main thing I'd want to get my head around if we were to combine the two is how to coordinate camping at the Rally campground. We'd be camping there as part of the clinic for the weekend and then holding over on Sunday night. My hope would be that the park wouldn't make that into a big hassle.

[Catrin]

....
The main thing I'd want to get my head around if we were to combine the two is how to coordinate camping at the Rally campground. We'd be camping there as part of the clinic for the weekend and then holding over on Sunday night. My hope would be that the park wouldn't make that into a big hassle.

Oh I have a potential solution for THAT little problem :) Since I would probably be there for a full week (from Friday to Friday) I would consider getting my favorite campsite on Taylor Ridge. It is a large site that would accommodate 2 large tents and still have room left over for some free space around the tents. Rally is just a short bike ride away.... Nice way to warm up. Of course it is also nice to be in the middle of the action, both for the Clinic and with other TE members, so I will see how things develop. It is also nice just to be able to fall in one's tent if one has consumed a little too much beer. Not that I ever do that of course... :) It wouldn't take long for me to move my campsite if needed.

December would be a good time to give everyone a heads up - I am pretty sure she opens registration on Jan 1, and as quickly as it filled up THIS year, it will probably fill up even quicker next year. I really hope that I can do intermediate next year, but we will see!

[indysteel]

Yeah, if I want to do the intermediate, then I need to work on getting my front wheel up and over 12" diameter logs. I have a mental block about even working on that, let alone doing it consistently. :rolleyes:

[Catrin]

Yeah, if I want to do the intermediate, then I need to work on getting my front wheel up and over 12" diameter logs. I have a mental block about even working on that, let alone doing it consistently. :rolleyes:

I hear you! I can't get my front wheel over anything I can't roll or walk over...and that is ok! As my crash/ride ratio decreases then I will work on that more but NOT until that ratio is down. And I don't think I want to be alone when I start working on hopping my front wheel over small obstacles

This year she had many different groups of both beginners and intermediate - and there were graduations in each group. Outside of the introductory group (which the instructors combined - the same we had in 2010)...the largest group was 6. Instructor + a helper for the instructor. It was great!

[Becky]

I like the sounds of this TE meet-up- keep me posted!

As for clearing obstacles: I got a whole lot better at them after DH suggested "wheelie nights" in the back yard. No pressure to actually clear anything, just lap after lap around the yard, lifting the wheel when I could.

[zoom-zoom]

For me this would be perfect! Take the Clinic on the weekend - which is quite full of activities, then ride the trails on Monday after everyone else has left and gone back to work? Sweet! Indeed I would probably choose just to stay/camp the entire week for my summer vacation :cool: ;)

Oh, this is awesome...I am already VERY seriously thinking about doing the clinic. It looks like it would be the weekend immediately following my DS's school getting out, so having a day or two of TE riding following the clinic would be PERFECT! We're already talking about making a long weekend vacation out of it.

[Giulianna23]

I am in for sure...sounds great!

[indysteel]

I like the sounds of this TE meet-up- keep me posted!

As for clearing obstacles: I got a whole lot better at them after DH suggested "wheelie nights" in the back yard. No pressure to actually clear anything, just lap after lap around the yard, lifting the wheel when I could.

Yep. That's what I gotta do. Someone motivate me!!!!

[Catrin]

..... I am thinking the rear tire is spinning in jerking motions, not smoothly as you claw your way up. With a slight lean during such torque-down on the pedal in really loosely packed dust while turning, the rear tire could just kick out.

I've been trying to keep my rear end weighing down the back, while I lower myself from the waist 'tits to the tube' I think is the term. Raising and lowering my torso as needed for the incline is all I do to keep the weight centered between both wheels. Now if only I could muster a nice smooth spin, pulling up and pushing down fluidly instead of looking like a fish on a boat deck...

Hopefully I've the tire problem settled, though I will need to decide what to do with the front tire when the leaves start falling.

I've been thinking about Tzvia's comment here about the torque on my pedals. I do not clip in on the mountain bike, it isn't even an option right now, time will tell if it ever is. I do have great BMX pedals...I wonder if the lack of any attachment is causing me to do this when I start cranking my way up a longer climb.

Limekiln, my usual trail this summer, DOES have hills but they are shorter...basically part of it is a pump track and that is how some treat it - very fast and flowy. Once you get enough momentum going there isn't an problem getting up the inclines on the trail. The hill I was trying to climb when I fell Saturday is longer than what I am accustomed to on the mtb bike, and since I am unattached to the bike I may well have done this. I hadn't thought of that before. It wasn't THAT big of a climb, but longer than what I am accustomed to.

I will start saving for a new pair of shoes, probably Teva or Vans. I've understand the use of grippy shoes with pinned pedals to be an intermediate step between using hiking shoes and clipping in. This should help me make circles when the going gets rough.

"Boobs to the Tube", I will try to remember this :) This was the mantra we received from our clinic instructor this summer...