Riding Solo - staying safe

[velo]

Since I started riding again back in mid June, I've ridden a fair bit. All of the miles but 40 have been by myself. I do all I can think of to stay safe being a solo female on the road... beyond just general cycling safety on the road.

Still, I had something happen this past week that made me a think more about my personal safety.

I ride 90% on rural roads. While traffic is a concern, being isolated is actually potentially more worrisome. I have my routes mapped out on ride with gps and let dh know which route I'm riding and estimated duration. I email him when I'm leaving and email him when I get home if he's at work and not at home. I carry a cell phone. I have a better world club membership. I have a road id. I never ride listening to music and I stay very aware of my surroundings. I'm equipped to handle minor repairs on the road. What else could one do?

I LOVE riding alone. And it has never worried me to be a solo female rider. Even now, with this thing that happened, it doesn't dampen my joy of riding and riding solo one bit. When I started riding, there weren't cell phones, road id, internet, gps, or anything else. I wasn't even in a relationship much of the time, so nobody to call if something happened. There is so much more one can do now. But I would want to do everything in my power to ensure my safety.

So, if anyone has thoughts on riding solo, safety, etc... please discuss.

[Ursula745]

I have some pepper spray on my bike. It hangs from my handle bar with a keychain connection that has a latch to remove it quickly. Other than that, I don't think there's a whole lot one can do.

[shootingstar]

Pepper spray in pocket in rural areas, sounds like an excellent thing.

It does help to know one's own personal cycling speed/stamina..if you have cycle far /out of danger. If you suspect a wierdo human being along a route might show up again, might be worthwhile cycling with DH same route/area at random times. Just to send a little message also, that there are other people in your life.

Would it be worth reporting to the police if it happens again?

[tzvia]

The main points, you have already covered. Carrying tools and a cell phone, leaving your ride info with others, road id, staying aware. Good points. There is only so much one can do, short of riding around in a suit of armor with a gaggle of bodyguards behind you.

The two things that become most important in an emergency where you may have to take action are TIME and DISTANCE. Each provides the other. Time to react- put on the brakes, call 911, reverse direction, head for a neighbors house. Distance-removal from threat or danger provides the time to think through what you need to do. Being aware is probably the most important thing at any time you are in public. This will provide distance and time. When I was aware I was being followed in my car, it gave me the time to react, the time to think. It gave me distance, as I was not hemmed in my driveway- I was a few miles from home on a public street and still in my car driving. That distance gave me some time and I was able to use that time to formulate a plan that kept myself, and my family at home, safe. I reversed direction and they turned around and followed me all the way to the parking lot of the Highway patrol.

So it may seem simplistic. But being aware is probably the best thing we can all do. Those YouTube videos of people falling down stairs and onto train tracks as they are obliviously texting may be funny, but they underscore my point. Without awareness nothing else matters.

Pepper spray may be better than nothing if you know how to use it and YES go out to an empty field, setup a target at the recommended distance and USE it. SEE how it sprays out, can you point it well? Did you just spray some attacker in the neck or chest and piss him off (not a good idea) or did you hit him in the face with it. Can you do that under stress with your heart pounding as you are running? Pepperspray is a REACTION. You are already in trouble. Best not to be in that situation if possible. Awareness first. If the place you are in is making the hairs on the back of your neck stand up- listen to yourself and get out of there. I thought I was being silly at first when I was being followed home by a car with 4 young men playing rap music. But my gut told me to watch them, and I began to zig zag through main streets and they followed. No more silly- react now before trouble starts.

Sorry for the long post, but you can see I have spent some time dwelling on this myself. Not just for cycling, but for my daily life. I don't listen to music or text as I walk about, cycle or drive. I try to be aware. I look in the back seat before opening the car door, I close and lock the door immediately when I get in, and remain aware of who else is around me. I cycle on roads that are well traveled, and that I am familiar with. When on vacation I have gone over the maps before leaving and have a GPS and always know where I am. When MTBing alone, I skip the more fun less traveled trails and stick to the trails that have equestrian and hiking traffic along with other cycle traffic.

It can be tough to remain alert and all too easy to just zone out with Twitter or other such nonsense.

[gbunker]

I have Google Lattitude on my phone. When I'm riding, my partner keeps an eye on my dot on the map. It's not perfect, but it helps her to feel better when she can see that my dot is still moving. Not helpful in the event of a weirdo confrontation, but possibly helpful in the event of illness, injury, mechanical issue, etc.

Gillian

[kamikazejane]

I've been trying to figure out a way to pack a pistol on me while riding and not have it get in the way. No joke. I ride solo alot as well and when it's time to tack on the miles that take me further and further I start to worry. I do like the idea of hanging pepper spray with a quick release.

[Norse]

I carry pepper spray in my tool bag. Guess it might be more useful to make it more easily accessible.

[LovelyGirl]

I've been trying to figure out a way to pack a pistol on me while riding and not have it get in the way. No joke. I ride solo alot as well and when it's time to tack on the miles that take me further and further I start to worry. I do like the idea of hanging pepper spray with a quick release.


There are a zillion great holsters for women these days, and I am certain you can find one that would work to take with you on the bike. Just make sure you can legally carry a firearm on your person first. Www.corneredcat.com and www.thewellarmedwoman.com are both excellent resources. Pepper spray is good if you can't have a firearm, but your attacker will have to be fairly close for you to use it, and if your attacker happens to be high on illicit drugs, even a direct shot of pepper spray to the face may be totally ineffective. A firearm is truly the great equalizer. Good luck!

[Bethany1]

Never heard of Google Latitude and looked it up. Neat idea, however DH doesn't have a smart phone and neither do my kids. Is there a way they could follow me online via my home computer? That would make me feel TONS safer knowing I was being followed by my kids.

Probably not since I'm guessing it needs a GPS unit to track. Still would be awesome if someone could figure that out for a home computer.

I have a love/hate relationship with riding alone. I love the freedom but there's always the "what if" factor even on well traveled roads. Like the OP, I ride rural roads. While they are traveled, something could happen and no one would see it. It's not so much as being assaulted but having an accident that ends with me in a ditch and not being seen.

The bike trail I use occasionally has no side roads so if you are stuck, it's a long walk back to the car. I had two deer jump out just in front of me that gave me a scare as I could have fallen into the river 10 feet below if they'd come much closer. There is a railing of sorts, but it's not that sturdy.

As for being safe, letting the people in your life know where you are is key. Staying aware of your surroundings and having plans for the possible things that could happen while out is another. A road trip is different than a trail trip.

If I'm out on the bike trail, I have food/water in my pack. I added a lightweight cycling jacket the other day. I wear loud visible clothing every time I ride. I need to buy a whistle and plan to throw in a small flashlight. I don't ride the trail in the evenings, but it's a just in case thing. I'm now used to the deer and get amazed at their grace.

Road trip is knowing where the rough parts are so I don't skid out. I don't bomb down the hills and I don't let the semis scare me when they go blowing past. I've actually learned to draft when they come by. Gravel roads means staying out of the center as that's where the cars are.

I don't ride at the same time every day either or have a set schedule of what days I ride the roads or trail.

Not sure where'd you put a gun and my worry would be that it would accidentally go off while on the bike. You'd need a holster of some kind. Maybe a hunting store would have more options.

And like someone else posted, if something seems off..it is. Go home. Call someone to get picked up. Go to a lighted area with lots of people. Know where the police station is. I keep track of where houses are on the roads so if something seems off I can go to a house and ask for help.

[kamikazejane]

There are a zillion great holsters for women these days, and I am certain you can find one that would work to take with you on the bike. Just make sure you can legally carry a firearm on your person first. Www.corneredcat.com and www.thewellarmedwoman.com are both excellent resources. Pepper spray is good if you can't have a firearm, but your attacker will have to be fairly close for you to use it, and if your attacker happens to be high on illicit drugs, even a direct shot of pepper spray to the face may be totally ineffective. A firearm is truly the great equalizer. Good luck!

Michigan is a friendly gun toting state :D....for the time being until our rights as Americans continue to be striped away, but that's a topic for another thread lol

Thanks for the links. I will have to check them out. I could probably clip it into my back jersey pocket. I would have to practice drawing it from there. I could probably get a bag to carry towards the front on my top tube and slip it in there leaving an opening for easy access and draw. But then if I am knocked off my bike I don't have access to it so it's pointless to carry at that point. Then I worry about it being up against my skin when Iam sweating salty sweat all over it.

[tulip]

Hey, let's tone down the political rhetoric here. Not everyone agrees, and it's a very touchy subject. Thanks.

[indysteel]

Hey, let's tone down the political rhetoric here. Not everyone agrees, and it's a very touchy subject. Thanks.

Thanks for saying that, Tulip. I very much agree.

[LovelyGirl]

Michigan is a friendly gun toting state :D....for the time being until our rights as Americans continue to be striped away, but that's a topic for another thread lol

Thanks for the links. I will have to check them out. I could probably clip it into my back jersey pocket. I would have to practice drawing it from there. I could probably get a bag to carry towards the front on my top tube and slip it in there leaving an opening for easy access and draw. But then if I am knocked off my bike I don't have access to it so it's pointless to carry at that point. Then I worry about it being up against my skin when Iam sweating salty sweat all over it.

I wish I lived in a gun-friendly state. Best thing I did was take firearm classes - fun and it may just save my life one day. I hope you find the perfect holster soon, and trust me, they're out there. There are many women who pack heat even at the gym, so they must have a sweat-proof holster.

[Bike Writer]

Michigan is a friendly gun toting state :D....for the time being until our rights as Americans continue to be striped away, but that's a topic for another thread lol

Thanks for the links. I will have to check them out. I could probably clip it into my back jersey pocket. I would have to practice drawing it from there. I could probably get a bag to carry towards the front on my top tube and slip it in there leaving an opening for easy access and draw. But then if I am knocked off my bike I don't have access to it so it's pointless to carry at that point. Then I worry about it being up against my skin when Iam sweating salty sweat all over it.

kamikazejane,

I'm ok with your comment, it was brief enough and as you said not suitable topic for this discussion so you didn't elaborate. I give ya a pass on that.

I wondered if anyone was going to get to the subject of a firearm for protection. Late last year I considered it briefly for a day or so. I believe I live and travel in a safe area, however, what is really safe anymore? You read about random crazies out there.

I ride alone frequently, I enjoy picking up and going at any time without making prearrangements with someone and I do like to ride with friends at times too. Most of the time I feel just fine, it's when it gets late into the season when people start thining out that it can get spooky. There is a remote park with a trail in it around a lake that is so beautiful in the fall and late fall. In the summer the park has enough people in it to feel pretty secure if you hurt yourself someone would find you. In the fall it gets pretty quiet out there except for some disc golfers and lone walkers. I have felt creepy out there at that time of year. I carry pepper spray for times like that and for wandering dogs in the rural areas that aren't fenced. But a firearm affords more protection. I have the same worries as you, if it were kept close enough to be useful I'm afraid I'd shoot myself accidently and what about falls and crashes???

So far, no good answers. I feel less secure in the Ann Arbor area because it's a college town and there have been incidents and rashes of men preying on runners and single females. The last such time a few months ago when there was a series of rapes I steered clear of my Ann Arbor rides until they caught up with the guy and apprehended him.

I take precautions, remain alert and aware and ensure that my demeanor suggests that I'm not an easy target. Beyond that, there's not much else you can do.

[kamikazejane]

Hey, let's tone down the political rhetoric here. Not everyone agrees, and it's a very touchy subject. Thanks.

geeez, I hardly said anything at all. My apologies.

[Catrin]

Pepper spray doesn't necessarily work - don't ask me how I know - but I know from experience. Nothing wrong with having it but it is good to keep that in mind.

I ride solo most of the time, both trail and road, and have no weapon with me. I won't go armed, for lots of complex reasons that don't matter to this discussion. I do need to get back to letting someone know where I am planning to go though.

[kamikazejane]

I wish I lived in a gun-friendly state. Best thing I did was take firearm classes - fun and it may just save my life one day. I hope you find the perfect holster soon, and trust me, they're out there. There are many women who pack heat even at the gym, so they must have a sweat-proof holster.

Agreed. Best class I have ever taken as well. Well worth it and totally believe in the right to carry for personal protection. To many loonies out there these days. Stinks your state isn't so friendly. I did check out those links and saw some stuff that might work so thank you. Appreciate it.

[colorisnt]

Can't recommend going to the range and asking some questions enough. My Dad carries on his bike as do some people I ride with. When I get my carry permit, I will look into it. An older guy I used to ride with says that it is really a good idea for a girl like me to have on me. One thing I worry a lot about is getting accosted when I am stopped somewhere in the middle of nowhere. If I can outrun someone, I have a chance, but in road shoes, that isn't likely.

When I was a kid, Jill Berhman was killed. She was a student at my alma mater. She was abducted while out cycling. Ever since then, my mother has worried incessantly about me going out. The good news is if I am out too long, my roommate will know. Before when I lived alone that wasn't an option.

[tulip]

geeez, I hardly said anything at all. My apologies.

No apologies necessary, I get that you were expressing a personal opinion. But remember that to you that comment may be hardly anything at all, but to others it might be a really big something. I've been on these boards long enough to know that these sorts of things can escalate and get pretty ugly in no time. We try, with only limited success, to keep things neutral as much as possible, that's all. Otherwise it's just no fun, and what's the point of that?

[Crankin]

I won't even enter the above discussion, but I must say I rarely feel unsafe or creeped out when I ride alone. I live in a suburb that's a little rural, but there's tons of riders around, houses, and cars. I have my phone and I generally let someone know what route I'm going on if I'm alone. I used to live a little further west of here when I started riding, but again, even though it was a little more sparse, not like rural in other parts of the country.
The most creeped out I have ever felt is when I was riding with DH and our friends in Barre/Hubbardston, MA, which is very rural. We were on the way back to our car and tired. DH and my friend's DH were ahead, I was in the middle, and my friend far behind. I couldn't see any of them, although DH was not that far ahead. A pick up came by and 2 creepy guys yelled out, "Nice azz." It was disconcerting, but when I got to where DH was waiting, he informed me they yelled the same thing to him and the other male! Equal opportunity, I guess.
I don't live in fear and won't let it rule my life. Cyclists are all over on the roads here. I also don't put myself in stupid situations, like walking around Harvard Square at 3 AM... 2 rapes in the past 10 days. Yeah, well, don't hang out in the city at 3 AM.

[Bethany1]

Are there better places for you to ride so you don't feel the need to carry a weapon? I would hate to spend every ride wondering if this was the day I needed to use a gun.

It's hard enough for me having Generalized Anxiety Disorder and fighting the need to stuff a pack full of everything "just in case" everyday when in reality it's all good. Adding a weapon would be too much for my mental health.

Also, since I'm bipolar, I'm not legally allowed to carry/own a weapon so it hasn't been an issue.

[DarcyInOregon]

In all of my years of cyling, and in different state, both urban and rural, humans with violent tendancies were never a cause for alarm. Instead:

1) Bike around a curve on a rural road and there is a brush fire with flames leaping as high as my bike and the asphalt of the road is bubbling under my tires. Solution - sprint.

2) Bike down a steep hill. In the opposite lane was a pickup carrying a load of old washing machines, driving up the hill. Behind me I heard the mechanical crashing noises of washing machines falling out of the truck and bouncing down the hill towards me. Solution - sprint.

3) Biking on a rural road. Speeding towards me in the opposite lane is a large farm truck with high sides in the back, billowing smoke over the top of the cab. The truck makes a sharp turn to its right, into a farmyard, and the side silhouette shows me that the contents of the back of the truck are in flames, with the flames shooting high. The truck slams to a stop in the farmyard, and the driver gets out and runs. One quick glance shows me that the fire engulfed vehicle parked next to a propane tank. Solution - sprint.

My motto is to bike light and be able to sprint when necessary.

[TrekDianna]

I usually do a close by MTB trail alone or with my partner. Alone though for the last week since she had a knee replaced on Wednesday. I am used to crashing and coming home bleeding, but a couple of recent incidents have me being a bit more careful. The first one...at the top of a climb I hit a rut that was under some tall grass that was laying down and I fell. There was gravel embedded in my knee and and lots of blood. No problem though - one of the reasons I love this trail is the 1.5 mile downhill then flat then downhill again. It's about 3.5-4 miles back to where I parked. As I started the downhill with blood droplets flying off, I suddenly remembered the cougar-killed deer that had been there for a week or so (only vultures eating now). I hoped the cougar wasn't in the area and didn't feel like chasing wounded prey. They second incident was last night on the same downhill stretch when I came around a corner and almost hit a deer. I think I need to sing while I ride. Usually it's just bunny-hopping over snakes though and nothing poisonous here.

[Wasp]

It has never occurred to me to carry a gun while cycling. I've never felt unsafe on any of my rides. The worst thing that's happened so far, was on one occasion being chased by a not so nice Pitt bull. And on another ride alone on a trail I encountered a deer on the side of the trail. I carry a whistle, so I stopped and used it thinking it would scare the deer, but the deer had other ideas and started trotting towards me. Obviously I turned around and started pedaling and the deer trotted behind me (just like a dog..lol) for acouple Km's. I ended up having to take the long way home that day!.
Seriously I can't imagine living in a area that I'm so concerned and afraid for my well being that carrying a gun would be the solution, never mind a loaded gun. Maybe you need to move?

[Crankin]

Yeah, I wanted to say that, too.
I have deer and turkeys crossing my property routinely. I must say I was a little "shocked," earlier in the summer when I was starting on one of my early AM rides. To leave my house, I have to go up a short rise in the driveway, which crests and flattens out before you go down about 600 feet to the street. Right when I got to the top, at the flat part a deer jumped across the driveway, scaring the sh*t out of me. It was kind of lit up like a picture by my headlight and it also triggered my neighbor's motion sensor lights to go on.
A little adrenaline at 4:50 in the morning.

[redrhodie]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mickey-shunick-killer-pleads-guilty-court-document-reveals/story?id=17029059#.UC-D-KEtE9w

I saw this story on one of the morning shows today. Very sad. Weapons were involved.

[Tri Girl]

You can only do everything you know to do to be safe. Otherwise, it's out of your hands.
Mickey's murder makes me so sad. She fought as hard as she could, but it wasn't enough. :(
Could be any one of us in her situation (riding home alone in the dark- I do it). Scary, yes, but it won't stop me from riding my bike. When it's my time to go, it's my time to go and I'd rather it be on my bike doing something I love than from obesity sitting on the couch.

I stay as aware as I can- always looking around and keeping an eye on things. Carry my cell phone, let my hubs know the route I'm taking, check in periodically. It's all we really can do. I'm afraid to carry mace or a weapon (for my own safety). I'm so clumsy and don't react well in panic situations. I'm afraid I would mace myself or shoot myself instead of a predator. I do carry one of these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003JTCVFG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5)while running, tho. I fully expect that one day I will stab myself unintentionally. :rolleyes:

[velo]

I'm thankful that where I live is not so unsafe that I need to think about arming myself. Really, if it were to that degree, something more drastic would have to change. Mostly, I think that as solo female riders, we can take reasonable precautions and that was what I was really thinking about.

I like the idea of having a trackable GPS. We still have dumb phones, so I'll have to explore that as an option. Varying times and routes seems like smart, reasonable precautions to take, too. As I said, I do a lot to stay safe and always stay aware of my surroundings.

While I want to stay safe, I will not let any worries dampen my enjoyment and enthusiasm. I think if I felt so unsafe that I had to think about firearms, I wouldn't ride solo at all. It would take any joy out of riding.

[LovelyGirl]

Lots of thought-provoking responses to the OP on this thread! In turn, it has made me think more about the subject as I read the responses. The more I turn it over in my mind, the simple fact is: victims of violent crime didn't expect to BE victims of violent crime. Otherwise, they would not have been at that place or doing that activity or trusting that person. So, what happens if you can't just simply avoid an evil person?

I know people who have been attacked in broad daylight in grocery store parking lots in "nice" parts of town, and maybe you do, too. The undertone of some of the posts is that it is overkill or paranoid of a woman to be legally carrying a gun. Well, I don't know, is that really a fair statement? I know that it is highly unlikely that my house will burn down, but I have smoke detectors. I know that odds are I will complete my errands without being in a car accident, but I still wear a seat belt every time I go. I don't think that makes me paranoid. I think it makes me prepared.

Fear of firearms is also expressed - I might shoot myself, etc. I have big, huge kitchen knives that assist me to whip up a mean dinner for DH when he walks in the door. Do I worry that they are potentially lethal weapons and that I might hurt myself using them? No. Because I'm careful, responsible, and I know how to use the knives. And I feel the same way about my own gun. I'm careful, responsible and I know exactly how to use it.

The OP's original statement was this:" But I would want to do everything in my power to ensure my safety." We owe her an honest response. However we personally feel about guns, they are the great equalizer. A gun in the hands of a 75 year old woman makes her more powerful than a 20 year old violent man. Just like any other potentially dangerous tool we use (cars, knives, chemicals, etc), we need to know how to use them properly and safely and obey the laws that govern them.

The goal of my response is to provoke further thought and not emotional responses. 2012 was the year I had to confront my thoughts about firearms (never having had one or wanted one or needed one before). I realize a gun isn't the answer for everyone, but let's do try to consider all of our options to keep ourselves safe.

[shootingstar]

The latest I've cycled at night was around midnight which was pretty rare for me.

But then again, the local cycling group here, goes out for casual bike rides that end at midnight at least once a month....if this gives anyone any idea in our city...of 1 million people.

There are rural areas outside of our city, where one would worry more about bears and deer ..than human beings on trails or road. However I agree, that precautions for personal safety off and on bike are always necessary.

Note: it's illegal in Canada to have a concealed handgun. It's been like this for ....decades.

[PamNY]

I always ride alone, and while I'm in an urban area, I'm often in areas that are not very populated. Most of the important points have been covered -- letting someone know your route, being aware, etc. I do have pepper spray at times, and I'm honestly not sure if it would ever be useful.

I think trusting your instincts is important. If it doesn't feel right, I'm out of there.

Regarding guns, if you haven't lived in an area where guns are common, you might not realize that for some people, carrying a gun is a routine thing and not necessarily a sign of excessive fear.

[Dog]

I also do most of my riding solo and in rural areas. I let my DH know my route and will send an update if I decide to ride longer than planned. I stay alert and dress conservatively. I have had guys yell at me from motorcycles or vehicles, but I'm used to that from my many years of running and just ignore it. It startles me more than anything. I have done some S24 tours (camping) solo as well and haven't had any issues. I'm planning one for Labor Day weekend.

[grey]

Every cop friend I have has encouraged me to get a concealed carry.
I've been a martial artist off and on for 20 years. I do carry a knife while out riding.

Nobody ever expects to be a victim. You just have to be aware, all the time. I know a lot of people don't like to think that way - to pay attention to what car is behind them, or scan the parking lot the moment they step out of the grocery. Glance under your car as you approach it - not just the back seat. Hold your head up, make sure the guy in the parking lot knows you saw him - and well enough to possibly identify him.

As for where to put the gun on the bike, the 2 former cops I ride with both have them in a small bag up by the handlebar. Easy to reach.

I read the story on Mickey. So sad. She fought really well - if she had a gun, she might be alive yet today. Or the guy could have taken it and she'd still be dead. Hard to say.

Be careful, loves.

[missjean]

Much of my riding is done solo, both mtb & road and I can't think of a time that I felt threatened - opps, take that back - years ago I was mtb riding in the woods about 2 miles from my house and as I rode into a clearing there was a young guy firing a big hand gun into pile of logs. I stopped, he stopped, lowered the gun, and I continued on. That made be a bit uneasy.

A number of women I have talked to about riding over the years have worried about their safety and are surprised that I don't mind riding alone. I've sometimes thought that maybe it has something to do with physical size. At
5' 8" and 160, I'm no little bitty thing. I might think differently if I was 5' & 95lbs. But then again, my friend who rode much of the Continental Divide solo is only 5' 3" and about 125lbs.

Maybe what it gets down to is the illusion of control, and proper risk assessment. The more in control you feel, the more safe you feel. The most common example used is probably flying in an airplane vs. driving your car. Driving your car is one of the most dangerous things you can do, but you are in complete control vs. flying, which is one of the most safe means of transportation, but so many people are terrified of flying, probably because it is completely out of their control.
And, risk assessment - maybe assault is a major problem in the area where you live, and then taking sensible precautions is good. But, so often we are frightened by the relentless pounding in the media of how we live in "dangerous times" (like life for humans has not always been dangerous :rolleyes:) and that clouds our thinking.
If we really stopped and thought about all that could go wrong with anything we do, we would never get out of bed!


.

[kamikazejane]

Lots of thought-provoking responses to the OP on this thread! In turn, it has made me think more about the subject as I read the responses. The more I turn it over in my mind, the simple fact is: victims of violent crime didn't expect to BE victims of violent crime. Otherwise, they would not have been at that place or doing that activity or trusting that person. So, what happens if you can't just simply avoid an evil person?

I know people who have been attacked in broad daylight in grocery store parking lots in "nice" parts of town, and maybe you do, too. The undertone of some of the posts is that it is overkill or paranoid of a woman to be legally carrying a gun. Well, I don't know, is that really a fair statement? I know that it is highly unlikely that my house will burn down, but I have smoke detectors. I know that odds are I will complete my errands without being in a car accident, but I still wear a seat belt every time I go. I don't think that makes me paranoid. I think it makes me prepared.

Fear of firearms is also expressed - I might shoot myself, etc. I have big, huge kitchen knives that assist me to whip up a mean dinner for DH when he walks in the door. Do I worry that they are potentially lethal weapons and that I might hurt myself using them? No. Because I'm careful, responsible, and I know how to use the knives. And I feel the same way about my own gun. I'm careful, responsible and I know exactly how to use it.

The OP's original statement was this:" But I would want to do everything in my power to ensure my safety." We owe her an honest response. However we personally feel about guns, they are the great equalizer. A gun in the hands of a 75 year old woman makes her more powerful than a 20 year old violent man. Just like any other potentially dangerous tool we use (cars, knives, chemicals, etc), we need to know how to use them properly and safely and obey the laws that govern them.

The goal of my response is to provoke further thought and not emotional responses. 2012 was the year I had to confront my thoughts about firearms (never having had one or wanted one or needed one before). I realize a gun isn't the answer for everyone, but let's do try to consider all of our options to keep ourselves safe.

Great response.

[shootingstar]

Discussion among cyclists elsewhere ....many are men on whether or not they own a gun(s):

http://forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/632104717/m/5121080767

I don't see myself as naive...I have lived in neighbourhoods where there were shooting or 2 just down the street or several blocks away. Did I move away from neighbourhood for that reason?

No. The reality is that crime does happen in the nice-looking/peaceful-looking neighbourhoods too.

For certain I'd rather live in areas where there are neighbours nearby, not in the middle of nowhere. But then, that's me, a city person all my life. (I was raised in an Ontario town of 2,000 people during lst 3 yrs. in life.)

[Eden]

geeez, I hardly said anything at all. My apologies.

It may have been a short sentence, but it spoke volumes.........

[kamikazejane]

Discussion among cyclists elsewhere ....many are men on whether or not they own a gun(s):

http://forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/632104717/m/5121080767

I don't see myself as naive...I have lived in neighbourhoods where there were shooting or 2 just down the street or several blocks away. Did I move away from neighbourhood for that reason?

No. The reality is that crime does happen in the nice-looking/peaceful-looking neighbourhoods too.

For certain I'd rather live in areas where there are neighbours nearby, not in the middle of nowhere. But then, that's me, a city person all my life. (I was raised in an Ontario town of 2,000 people during lst 3 yrs. in life.)

Yep, I lived in the peaceful country and worked fire/emt there. The same stuff that happens in the city happens in the country. It just doesn't usually make the news.

[kamikazejane]

It may have been a short sentence, but it spoke volumes.........

It's called subtle sarcasm. ;) I am pretty proficient at it. :D

[indigoiis]

I do not carry pepper spray or a firearm, but I did take self-defense classes after learning about Sherry Arnold, the runner in Montana. In SD class, our teacher was extremely adamant about only using self-defense when cornered. The key, he said, is to get away from the situation. If you are intentionally brought down off of your bike, run and make a lot of noise. This doesn't really help in a rural situation (because who would hear you) but we could be better about putting our phones in our jersey instead of our backpacks or seatpost bags if we ride rurally. That way, if we get brought down off our bikes, our phones are on our persons and we can dial 911 while running.

I read a study somewhere that said that criminals usually don't use their guns right away - they try to lure first. And when / if they do use their guns, it's to threaten. If they fire, you have a chance they won't hit you if you are running away. If they grab you, that's where self-defense comes in to play. They only have two arms.

That's how I play it in my mind. Also awareness is key.

[trailrider]

Lots of good reading. I am new here. Went for my first solo ride today. I was so proud of myself for getting the rack on the car by myself lol...I am sort of new to riding and so far only ride the trails. We have a great trail system here in Ohio but today I did turn around because I just got a little spooked by myself. It felt like I was in the woods all by myself. I'm 53 and don't go all that fast when riding and felt like if someone chased me, I wouldn't have enough energy to get away if I rode too far out.

I've been thinking of taking firearm classes and after today and reading this forum it is sounding like a better idea all the time.

I look forward to participating in this forum and learning all I can about solo riding. My husband rides with me on the weekends and we really enjoy it, but during the week I want to get out more.

[Owlie]

I do almost all of my riding on my own. I carry ID and a charged cell phone, and stay vigilant. The trails are fairly well-traveled, but in the evening I can ride ten miles and not see anyone. If I get caught after dark, then I make my way back to the car as fast as I can.

Trailrider, I see you're in OH. PM me your location, if you feel comfortable. :)

[Eden]

It's called subtle sarcasm. ;) I am pretty proficient at it. :D

Just so's there's no misunderstanding... I didn't find your remark to be subtle in the least, nor do I agree with it...

[Anyabeth]

I think this is a really interesting conversation. I feel much less vulnerable riding alone than I do running - even though I am farther from home while riding. There is a big cycling community around so I usually see other riders and I ride much faster than I can run.

It does make me uncomfortable to see the tone that somehow some one who is attacked might be responsible for that happening to them. Honestly, we only have an illusion of control. How you dress or whatever won't stop some one who wants to hurt some one.

I consider myself careful and I like the idea of having my route pre-marked so a friend can monitor me. But mostly I just know that I can't control the behavior of sociopaths who want to attack people.

[Crankin]

+1, Eden.
I usually stay out of these discussions, but other than taking the usual precautions, I don't think about it. Bad sh*t happens and if I spent my life worrying about it, I wouldn't go out of my house.
I'm not totally opposed to guns, as having a child in the military has forced me to learn about them. But, I still don't like the whole "thing" about this issue. I also did not think there was any subtleness in some of the comments. Of course, everyone has opinions, but these are mine, and I am sure people won't like them.

[Chile Pepper]

+1 to Eden and Crankin. I am firmly in the anti-gun camp. Guns don't equalize—they escalate.

When I first started riding solo way back in the early 80s, my friendly bike shop manager told me his wife's philosophy: keep your head up, your eyes open, and your mouth closed. In other words, be aware; don't look tired (even if you are); don't look like a victim. I refuse to live in fear of remote possibilities. I am far more likely to be hit by a texting teenager than deliberately assaulted by a stranger out in the middle of nowhere. Besides, what's the point of lightening up with a carbon frame and superlight wheels, only to add the considerable weight of a firearm?

[Catrin]

+1 to Eden and Crankin. I am firmly in the anti-gun camp. Guns don't equalize—they escalate.

When I first started riding solo way back in the early 80s, my friendly bike shop manager told me his wife's philosophy: keep your head up, your eyes open, and your mouth closed. In other words, be aware; don't look tired (even if you are); don't look like a victim. I refuse to live in fear of remote possibilities. I am far more likely to be hit by a texting teenager than deliberately assaulted by a stranger out in the middle of nowhere. Besides, what's the point of lightening up with a carbon frame and superlight wheels, only to add the considerable weight of a firearm?

+1 to Eden, Crankin, and Chile Pepper. I've written three posts on this thread and deleted each of them. Use common sense, take normal precautions, and enjoy riding. I refuse to be ruled by what MIGHT happen and I agree that an inattentive driver is far more likely a danger to most of us.

[pll]

+1 Eden, Crankin and Chile Pepper!

I have been following this thread and thinking that I'd rather rely on awareness and common sense precautions than on carrying a gun. That cannot be aerodynamic! And if I ever carry a knife it is in anticipation of buying cheese.

More seriously, those considering carrying a gun would do well to get some advanced combat and gun handling training. Standing calmly at a shooting range, aiming at a non threatening target is very different from being knocked off your bike. A gun might be helpful in a tiny fraction of an unlikely type of event, but to each their own.

ETA: I could not agree more with Catrin.

[tealtreak]

+1 to Eden, Crankin, and Chile Pepper. I've written three posts on this thread and deleted each of them. Use common sense, take normal precautions, and enjoy riding. I refuse to be ruled by what MIGHT happen and I agree that an inattentive driver is far more likely a danger to most of us.


ditto on the inattentive driver- I have been t-boned twice by guys who ran red lights as I was making a turn (on green) Luckily, this happened while driving so many broken bones but I am not dead........always in the back of my mind when road riding ......

[missjean]

I have to agree w/Eden, Crankin, Chile Pepper & pll. No one is saying not to take precautions if you need to, but I'd hate to think of a new rider reading this thread and thinking she is in danger of attack when ever she goes out on a solo ride.

Also, I went back and read this thread from the beginning and I didn't pick up on any tone that implied that the attacked are somehow responsible.

[Anyabeth]

I was referring to the poster that was talking about girls being raped because they were out at 2am. Admittedly I am amped up about that sort of thing because of some political things that are happening right now. But I think it is strange to say that women riders should be carrying a weapon and dressed a certain way as reasonable precautions.

I am largely pro gun but if I felt so unsafe that I needed to carry a gun to go for a bike ride I might reconsider biking.

[Norse]

I am absolutely more afraid of being hit by a vehicle than I am of being attacked. Ride defensively, and expect drivers to do stupid stuff.

[kamikazejane]

Just so's there's no misunderstanding... I didn't find your remark to be subtle in the least, nor do I agree with it...


Ummm oookkkk, I wasn't really sitting here all worried and concerned about any misunderstanding or if anyone agreed or disagreed with me.....everyone is entitled to their own opinion and view points and I respect that. There are alot of great comments for both sides of the fence.

[Eden]

I am absolutely more afraid of being hit by a vehicle than I am of being attacked. Ride defensively, and expect drivers to do stupid stuff.

+1 Norse, Catrin and Teal! I wrote some replies I deleted too.... The chances of being stalked and murdered by a stranger, somewhere along the lines of the same odds that the earth will be hit by a giant asteroid.... The chances of being hit by an inattentive driver....

Let's also just say feelings around here are running a bit raw these days too.... I suppose also that the chances of being hit by a stray bullet are also fairly astronomical - yet it happened, here in my neighborhood, on a corner I ride though often, just a few weeks ago. A father was killed in front of his children when he just happened to be driving by a corner where someone insulted someone one else and the answer was to pull out a gun. He had nothing to do with it at all, yet he died there, shot in the head, in his fathers arms, in front of his children, for no reason. Tragic, nonsensical, preventable.

[kamikazejane]

Since a few feel this need to jump at me for the statement I made back on page 1......I think we do need to keep in mind that there are some personal reasons as to why some might choose to legally carry or not carry a handgun. I for one have been the victim of rape. I didn't go out asking for it or looking for it. When it happened, I had nothing to protect myself with or fight off the attacker who was twice my size. I weighed a measly 105lbs at 5'4" and my attacker was of course alot bigger than me. I have had to get a protection order on my ex husband who was threatening not only my life but my parents and siblings lives as well. As a family we have had to take precautions. These experiences have shaped my decisions and choices. So my choice to carry is just that....a choice.

Someone else might choose to not carry a handgun for their own personal reasons. They live in a safe neighborhood, never felt threatened, would rather carry mace, a knife, don't feel comfortable around guns, don't believe in guns etc. That is their own choice and I don't think any less of it just like I would hope others wouldn't knock my choice to carry a handgun legally.

[Catrin]

Kamikazejane - first off - I am sorry that you had to endure such things. It is very sad that anyone has to go through such things and they do leave their mark.

I've survived 2 very violent crimes that included rape twice in my life and at one time was familiar with protection orders. Even with all of that I've no desire to ever own/carry a weapon of any kind and have strong opinions on the wisdom of carrying a firearm for common/usual activities.

This is a loaded question/issue, and each of us comes to it with our own perspective from our personal history, politics, and beliefs.

[ny biker]

I personally thought Tulip was referring to this:

"for the time being until our rights as Americans continue to be striped away, but that's a topic for another thread lol"

which to me is the type of political comment the TE moderators prefer we discuss elsewhere.

Otherwise, I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind about the wisdom or appropriateness of carrying a gun, whether you are for or against.

[Eden]

I personally thought Tulip was referring to this:

"for the time being until our rights as Americans continue to be striped away, but that's a topic for another thread lol"

which to me is the type of political comment the TE moderators prefer we discuss elsewhere.

Otherwise, I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind about the wisdom or appropriateness of carrying a gun, whether you are for or against.

Moi aussi - My original reply was also referring to that, more than the issue about carrying weapons. I found it to be, even as a small statement, highly politically charged and rather confrontational, yet also flippant.... and not a lol matter at all to my mind. That is what spoke volumes to me.

[kamikazejane]

Moi aussi - My original reply was also referring to that, more than the issue about carrying weapons. I found it to be, even as a small statement, highly politically charged and rather confrontational, yet also flippant.... and not a lol matter at all to my mind. That is what spoke volumes to me.

The Internet is about the worst way to judge how or in what context someone is saying something. How do you know if I was being "flippant" or "confrontational" or thinking that anything is or isn't an "lol" matter?

[Eden]

The Internet is about the worst way to judge how or in what context someone is saying something. How do you know if I was being "flippant" or "confrontational" or thinking that anything is or isn't an "lol" matter?

Actually I said that I found it to be so. I note it was all OK and smilies when you thought I agreed.....

I don't intend to debate politics with you. It is not appropriate here. Perhaps this should simply be a lesson in take care what you type, because if I don't know in what context it is being said, you also don't know in what context that it is being read. Perhaps I am alone in this, but I found it inflammatory. Please feel free to set your account up to ignore my posts. I won't be offended.

Taking a look back I don't think I'd have even said anything at all if you hadn't come back to Tulip with a Geeze I hardly said anything at all attitude, because I thought you said plenty.

[lovelygamer]

Wow. Touchy Subject. I try to limit my riding to before 10 p.m. I was out at that time a couple of weeks ago and my "hood" was scary to say the least. I was more afraid of the people than the cars AND I saw more people in the streets than cars. That said, I don't use guns. I would just pedal faster if I was concerned. I keep my cell and road ID on me too, at all times I am riding.

[Bike Writer]

There has been an abundance of thoughtful ideas posted here and good dialogue over this emotionally charged subject.

There has also been a level of "attack" type posting criticizing someone's opinion or perspective and that adds nothing to the discussion.

As another poster pointed out, nothing said on these forums is going to change a person who is pro-gun into anti-gun and vice versa. Thankfully we live in a nation where opinions are freely accepted and encouraged.

To the original poster kamikazejane; while I dislike generalizations I have found the following to be the norm in this environment - many comments that express a liberal point of view are passed on without comment (which is really how it should be, a persons POV is just that) - many comments that express a conservative point of view are debated or challenged, sometimes hotly.

I come here for cycling information, comraderie and try to ensure that for the most part my contributions don't contain something that can be construed as offensive, instead I try to offer helpful advice or tips when I am able to. I'm sure that you didn't intend for your comment to cause a ruckus, but it has. Lesson learned, I speak from experience with having made what I considered to be a small offhand personal opinion that stirred up quite a hornet's nest at the time.

Not sure how the weather is in the rest of the world today, but today is a GREAT day to live in South East Michigan, we are having one perfectly gorgeous day! ;)

[zoom-zoom]

I am absolutely more afraid of being hit by a vehicle than I am of being attacked. Ride defensively, and expect drivers to do stupid stuff.

Yeah...my fears re: riding solo are generally related to the possibility of mechanical issue with my bike, flaky drivers, or my own propensity for doing dumb/clumsy stuff. I know people who will mountain bike alone--that, especially, terrifies me. Because I rarely go off road without at least one crash. Fortunately they have all yielded relatively benign soft-tissue injuries, but I know the odds are that sometime I will suffer a more serious injury and if I'm alone on a quiet trail it could be a while before anyone finds me.

[kamikazejane]

I note it was all OK and smilies when you thought I agreed.....


Like I said, I don't care if you agree or disagree with my opinions. I was actually poking fun at myself when I made the "proficient subtle sarcasm" comment. I wasn't thinking "oh cool she agrees with me."



Actually I said that I found it to be so. I note it was all OK and smilies when you thought I agreed.....

I don't intend to debate politics with you. It is not appropriate here. Perhaps this should simply be a lesson in take care what you type, because if I don't know in what context it is being said, you also don't know in what context that it is being read. Perhaps I am alone in this, but I found it inflammatory. Please feel free to set your account up to ignore my posts. I won't be offended.

Taking a look back I don't think I'd have even said anything at all if you hadn't come back to Tulip with a Geeze I hardly said anything at all attitude, because I thought you said plenty.

Sorry, I was only trying to figure out how or why what I posted came across as it did to you. Why is it inflammatory? Why do you think it is flippant? What makes you think I thought it was an "lol" matter? Just wanted your side of how you perceived it so that it was clear and not inferred on my end.

I have no problem and will continue to express my opinion on matters whether on an internet forum or in person. I never expect everyone to agree with me and have no problem if people disagree. How one reacts to what I say/write or how I say it is something only they have control over. As long as I am not slandering/attacking another person then if they don't like what I say or how I say something then it is their right to and so be it, that's the harsh reality of life. You can't expect to agree with what everyone has to say. I just try my best to understand where that person is coming from when they do disagree rather then respond on an emotional level.

Also, there is no reason for me to block you. I find your comments challenging, of interest and worthwhile.

[kamikazejane]

Not sure how the weather is in the rest of the world today, but today is a GREAT day to live in South East Michigan, we are having one perfectly gorgeous day! ;)

We had some nasty storms over here in Shelby Township this afternoon. Drying out now just in time for a ride :D

[Bike Writer]

We had some nasty storms over here in Shelby Township this afternoon. Drying out now just in time for a ride :D

I just realized you are from Michigan. Not a drop of rain only mild temps and sunshine just north of Ann Arbor.

[velo]

As the OP of this thread, I want to say sorry for even asking the question. The thought that this discussion would turn to a debate on firearms did not even cross my mind. The thought of *arming* oneself didn't even cross my mind as an option. I was thinking along the lines of the suggestion given about your SO being able to track you on GPS. Had I known that we'd even be talking about carrying a gun on a ride, I would never have started it. Political biases aside, I was hoping that this would be constructive. Although I had no way of knowing that it would devolve to this, I will say that some of the *reasonable* (and no, I don't consider carrying a GUN to be *reasonable*) suggestions were helpful and I thank those people. /thread

[kamikazejane]

As the OP of this thread, I want to say sorry for even asking the question. The thought that this discussion would turn to a debate on firearms did not even cross my mind. The thought of *arming* oneself didn't even cross my mind as an option. I was thinking along the lines of the suggestion given about your SO being able to track you on GPS. Had I known that we'd even be talking about carrying a gun on a ride, I would never have started it. Political biases aside, I was hoping that this would be constructive. Although I had no way of knowing that it would devolve to this, I will say that some of the *reasonable* (and no, I don't consider carrying a GUN to be *reasonable*) suggestions were helpful and I thank those people. /thread

You have no need to apologize. You had a valid question and concern and there were some good suggestions. I don't think anyone made the suggestion to carry a gun. The original question/concern that I asked was on how to carry one while biking. I would have to read through all the posts but I don't think anyone including myself actually said/suggested that you should carry one. I probably should have started my own thread asking my own question instead of interjecting it into yours. The gun talk turned into an off topic tangent that unfortunately I initiated with my comment and question so I apologize that your thread was blown up by it and the focus of your post was lost at some point.

[lovelygamer]

Velo



/thread



.......

That was win!

[snapdragen]

Let's all step away from the thread for now, m'kay?

[Aromig]

I'm brand new here (just joined yesterday) -- and I'm not riding very much now (recovering from a broken tib/fib) -- but thought I'd share my personal "safety" precaution with you. I own a "Spot" personal GPS tracking device. It didn't cost much (I think I spent $100 on the unit -- and they have specials all the time), and you pay for a yearly subscription. There are different options - you can have it report your position to a website every 10 minutes that you can allow your family to log in and check (you can set it to private so only invitees can see). I don't do this very often although I bought the service. The one service that IS useful is that it has an emergency button that you can press when needed and it will summon emergency responders. I've take my spot in places where I can't get cell phone reception - it gives me peace of mind when I can't get cellphone reception (which is frequent than people realize).

For a small subscription (like $12 a year) it also provides emergency rescue insurance (if you use the function for emergency responders, it covers the cost). I used that just this summer -- I broke my leg parachuting in Norway and the insurance is paying the $3000 helicopter transport bill (I can't IMAGINE how expensive it would be for helicopter transport in the US).

Finally, my favorite function is a "check in" that I can send a text to my husband saying "I'm OK." I do this when I'm done parachuting, hiking, etc. for the day and I'm on my way home. If he doesn't get that check in when expected, he knows to start beating the bushes for me. I bought my first unit at Eddie Bauer, and I bought a smaller unit at Gander Mountain last year, and I've seen them at REI. You can learn more about it at findmespot.com (I know there are also other personal GPS locators out there too).

Amy

[zoom-zoom]

Amy, I've see ads for the Spot devices in the back of Bicycling and/or Outdoors magazine. That is really intriguing. I could see something like that being very useful for someone like me.

[pll]

I would carry that!

[Susan Otcenas]

Ladies,

Putting on my (hardly ever worn) ADMIN hat here:

I read this thread from start to finish. I have to say that all of you on the forums continue to amaze me. Guns are a very emotionally charged subject and it's clear that many of you fall on polar opposite sides of the opinion spectrum on this one. And yet, despite a few tense moments, the thread has stayed remarkably civil and respectful. That speaks volumes about all of you, and I am so honored to "rub shoulders" with you here on the forums, regardless of your political persuasions. Thank you.

I'm going to ask all of you now to just take a breather and step back from the carry-or-don't-carry portion of the thread, because as has been stated a few times already, it's unlikely that any minds are going to be changed on this particular point. Let's continue to discuss velo's concerns and the very real and very important topics of safety and *feeling safe* (which I think are two separate but similar ideas) while out riding and doing what we love, without any further discussion on guns. I very very much do not want to shut this thread down, because I think there's been a ton of great conversation here, but I will close it if the gun theme comes up again.

Again, thank you all for your intelligent and thoughtful contributions to this thread!

Susan

[roo4]

Susan,

Would this be an acceptable topic for the "way off topic ongoing conversations" category or are all posts that mention guns banned from TE forums?

edited to add: or how about "Open Topic (non-cycling related)?"

[Irulan]

I'm going to bet, based on,

Remember, the focus of these forums is women's cycling and fitness. Other forums exist elsewhere on the Internet for involved discussions of religion, politics, etc.
probably not.

[Bike Writer]

I'm brand new here (just joined yesterday) -- and I'm not riding very much now (recovering from a broken tib/fib) -- but thought I'd share my personal "safety" precaution with you. I own a "Spot" personal GPS tracking device. It didn't cost much (I think I spent $100 on the unit -- and they have specials all the time), and you pay for a yearly subscription. There are different options - you can have it report your position to a website every 10 minutes that you can allow your family to log in and check (you can set it to private so only invitees can see). I don't do this very often although I bought the service. The one service that IS useful is that it has an emergency button that you can press when needed and it will summon emergency responders. I've take my spot in places where I can't get cell phone reception - it gives me peace of mind when I can't get cellphone reception (which is frequent than people realize).

For a small subscription (like $12 a year) it also provides emergency rescue insurance (if you use the function for emergency responders, it covers the cost). I used that just this summer -- I broke my leg parachuting in Norway and the insurance is paying the $3000 helicopter transport bill (I can't IMAGINE how expensive it would be for helicopter transport in the US).

Finally, my favorite function is a "check in" that I can send a text to my husband saying "I'm OK." I do this when I'm done parachuting, hiking, etc. for the day and I'm on my way home. If he doesn't get that check in when expected, he knows to start beating the bushes for me. I bought my first unit at Eddie Bauer, and I bought a smaller unit at Gander Mountain last year, and I've seen them at REI. You can learn more about it at findmespot.com (I know there are also other personal GPS locators out there too).

Amy

I had no idea such a thing existed. If not for you posting this and me reading it I would be unaware. Great information, thank you.

[Susan Otcenas]

roo4 & Irulan,

Good question. Being totally frank, I'm not sure I have a good answer. Full disclosure: I'm a "free speech and open, frank discussions are good for us" kind of gal, so my natural inclination is to put as few limits on topics as possible and trust everyone to be civil and thoughtful in their discussions. But, I guess I see multiple angles, some of which lead me in the opposite direction on this particular topic. Here's my thinking:

On the one hand, whether or not to *legally* carry a gun while riding isn't really "off topic" to these forums. Whether we like it or not, it is a legal thing to do throughout most of this country, and so a discussion of the merits of carrying or not while riding our bikes is a legitimate topic of discussion on the forums.

That said, discussions of this type rarely stay on topic. They tend to devolve into heated & emotional discussions of gun control laws, whether guns prevent or cause violence, etc., and *those* types of discussions are most definitely NOT on topic for these forums.

Soooo, where does that leave us? I guess the middle ground would be to approve a CLEARLY LABELED thread in Open Topic (Non-Cycling Related). Something along the lines of "Hot Topic: Carrying Guns While Cycling". (Yes, it's on topic, but we all know its going to stray, so might as well resign ourselves to that fact and put it in Off Topic.) I would just ask that everyone try to remain civil while expressing their opinions and remember that it really is hard to convey thoughts and emotions in written form. Let's try to be respectful of one another, even when disagreeing. It would sadden me greatly if feelings were hurt or people left the forums over an off-topic subject because they felt they'd been insulted or disrespected. It's happened before. Sometimes those people return to the forums, but sometimes we lose them forever. The women's cycling community is small enough as it is, that it would sadden me to see these explosive topics drive wedges between us.

Other thoughts on this? I'm open to ideas.

Susan

[Irulan]

My thought is that the topic goes so quickly into politics that there's no way to have a civil online discussion about it. I will underscore that I've never seen anyone's mind changed by an online discussion. This topic has come up in other forums, and other biking forums especially that I read, and no good comes of it. No matter how polite we think we can be here, I don't see how it could be done.

I am filtering this through my "formerly a moderator" filter. I've moderated here and MTBR and a couple of other boards, so I think it's fair for me to take a strond stance.

If there was such a thread allowed here, I'd probably just pull up a chair, grab my popcorn, and see how long it took before it did have to be shut down. I think it would be inevitable.

[roo4]

Susan,

Thank-you for your explanation. I thought the discussion was both thought-provoking and mostly civil. I did not see that it was "political" in the sense that we did not debate the upcoming elections or political parties (and here I realize that I am being USA-centric, apologies to residents of other countries). Banning such discussions is a slippery slope. I recall much discussion surrounding the Komen/Planned Parenthood issue, most of which could reasonably be termed "political."

I would hope that we could continue to discuss issues freely. Perhaps labeling the thread appropriately as you suggested and/or starting new threads if existing ones drift too much will help. Of course, if (when?) the thread devolves into name-calling and ranting, you, as the admin, will have to step in. I did not think the current thread had arrived at that point.

I would hate to lose members of the community over a flame war, and I realize I am saying this as a fairly new poster.

[OakLeaf]

Y'know, I've stayed out of this one (honestly, I mistook it for last month's thread where the SPOT device was mentioned in the first few replies - didn't even realize a new thread had started until just yesterday).

But purely from an amateur sociology point of view, I really wonder WHY the topic of firearms engenders such strong emotions.

If anyone in the world can explore that subject rationally, I'd put my money on the fine gals of TE.

So from that point of view, I'd welcome a meta-thread, ask for people's thoughtful contributions and introspection on why the topic gets them so jacked up - and get my popcorn ready. :cool:

[lph]

My take on why some topics are so hot - insert earbuds (no, not literally :rolleyes:), helmets, religion, gun carrying or what have you: we're really good at discussing things that are obviously personal choices. Some topics are hot because people hold opposite opinions not only on what is best for them, but on what is best for others, or for society in general. Sounds obvious, but when somebody holds a strong opinion they truly believe they are right, just as right as you are. If you truly believe that x, y or z is the best thing for everyone, it's pretty hard to phrase it in terms of "hey, this is just my opinion", and it often comes out brash and sounding like "this is obvious" or "you should be doing this instead" or "how can you possibly believe anything else". And that's what people react to - being treated as if their opinion isn't worth even listening to.

And believe me - this is not meant to target anyone, but is purely a general observation. I've both held strong views "on behalf of society", and been offended by others doing the same. Just not guns, which is pretty much a non-subject over here. I'm not sure I've ever seen a handgun.

[hebe]

For the OP. I ride often on my own, and often this is when my OH is on the other side of the pond. I do the following:


make sure I'm in distinctive clothes so as many people as possible notice me
say hello to everyone I pass who's on foot or bike, and acknowlege every driver who passes me. If anything were to happen, I want to know that there would be as many people as possible who were sure that they'd seen me
I did a basic maintenance course and carry a spare tube/tools with me.
I do a basic check before every ride (tyres and brakes)
Carry a fully charged mobile, number of a taxi company, water and snacks
I'm also considering checking in/out of every ride on FB, including outfit & bike details for those rides when my OH
is abroad.

[Susan Otcenas]

...checking in/out of every ride on FB...

I do this for all of my randonneuring rides. Jeff and several friends always know my route, and then I post my progress at every controle. Sure, sometimes it's hours between each check in, but I think it gives them some comfort when they see a post from me at 3am that I'm still alive and moving forward. ;)

Something else I've just done this week is to enable the "where is my iphone" app. It should allow Jeff to log in and see where my phone is. It was designed to help you find a lost or stolen phone, but I imagine it will be useful if he wants to see where I am at any given moment, assuming I have cell service (which I often don't on the more rural legs of my ride.)

[PamNY]

For the OP. I ride often on my own, and often this is when my OH is on the other side of the pond. I do the following:


make sure I'm in distinctive clothes so as many people as possible notice me
say hello to everyone I pass who's on foot or bike, and acknowlege every driver who passes me. If anything were to happen, I want to know that there would be as many people as possible who were sure that they'd seen me
I did a basic maintenance course and carry a spare tube/tools with me.
I do a basic check before every ride (tyres and brakes)
Carry a fully charged mobile, number of a taxi company, water and snacks
I'm also considering checking in/out of every ride on FB, including outfit & bike details for those rides when my OH
is abroad.

The tube/tools and ability to do some maintenance are very important points that I don't recall seeing in this thread. Phone number of a taxi company is good too, in some situations.

[velo]

The tube/tools and ability to do some maintenance are very important points that I don't recall seeing in this thread. Phone number of a taxi company is good too, in some situations.

In my original OP, I said that I am equipped for minor repairs. I think that is a *minimum* for riding alone in rural areas. This may be a rather strong stance, but if you can't change a flat and do some very minor repairs, you have no business riding solo in the country. I'd almost say it's a given.

Also, I mentioned in my OP that I have Better World. I don't know if this has really been talked about much here on these forums, as I'm still relatively new here, but this is basically an insurance company like AAA... except unlike AAA in most of the US, it has a road-side plan for cyclists where you pay about $40/year and you can call them for road-side assistance (usually just a pick up, but I think they'll also help with a repair if you have the equipment). They are the only insurance company doing this for cyclists throughout the US, as opposed to AAA, who is doing so in just a few states. My plan if I need to call someone for a pick-up in order of preference is: hubby, good friend next door, good friends at work, then Better World as a last resort. In the past, I was a 10-month/year rider - in that case the fees turn out to be $4/month or about 13 cents/day for the assurance that SOMEONE will pick me up if I need to. I am lucky that cell towers are everywhere and I'm never without a signal. Among all the coin we shell out for this expensive sport, $40/year seems like a steal for a little more peace of mind. I'd encourage all to look into Better World Club (http://www.betterworldclub.com/) if you haven't already.

[PamNY]

In my original OP, I said that I am equipped for minor repairs. I think that is a *minimum* for riding alone in rural areas. This may be a rather strong stance, but if you can't change a flat and do some very minor repairs, you have no business riding solo in the country. I'd almost say it's a given..

This thread has moved along so much I'd forgotten the original post. I agree that what you describe is a minimum for rural riding. Even in the city, I'm amazed at how often I loan out my tiny tool kit.

Better World is something I should look into. I live in Manhattan and offhand can't think of one close-ish friend who has a car.

[goldfinch]

In my original OP, I said that I am equipped for minor repairs. I think that is a *minimum* for riding alone in rural areas. This may be a rather strong stance, but if you can't change a flat and do some very minor repairs, you have no business riding solo in the country. I'd almost say it's a given.

Also, I mentioned in my OP that I have Better World. I don't know if this has really been talked about much here on these forums, as I'm still relatively new here, but this is basically an insurance company like AAA... except unlike AAA in most of the US, it has a road-side plan for cyclists where you pay about $40/year and you can call them for road-side assistance (usually just a pick up, but I think they'll also help with a repair if you have the equipment). They are the only insurance company doing this for cyclists throughout the US, as opposed to AAA, who is doing so in just a few states. My plan if I need to call someone for a pick-up in order of preference is: hubby, good friend next door, good friends at work, then Better World as a last resort. In the past, I was a 10-month/year rider - in that case the fees turn out to be $4/month or about 13 cents/day for the assurance that SOMEONE will pick me up if I need to. I am lucky that cell towers are everywhere and I'm never without a signal. Among all the coin we shell out for this expensive sport, $40/year seems like a steal for a little more peace of mind. I'd encourage all to look into Better World Club (http://www.betterworldclub.com/) if you haven't already.

I also am a member of Better World. I often travel alone in unfamiliar areas. If I have a breakdown that I can't deal with on my own I need somewhere to call for reliable help. The only issue is having a cell phone signal, which I don't always have.