Compac double vs triple

[Custardcup1]

my new bike is a Felt, 43cm, with 650 wheels and is a compact. Some people have told me the 650 wheels will really slow me down and the compact doesn't help either. Did I make a mistake??:(:(

[indysteel]

The compact won't help? What were you looking for help with? Climbing? Top speed? Here's the compromise, generally speaking between a triple and a compact double: In return for the easier shifting and lighter weight you often get with a compact, you likely give up the biggest gear(s) and smallest
gear(s) and a few gears in between that your triple offered.

If you need an easier climbing gear than the compact provides, you can remedy that by getting a cassette with a bigger spread, e.g., going from a 12-25 cassette, to a 12-27 or, in my case, a 13-28. There are lots of options with cassettes; it's just a question of making sure your rear derailleur can handle it and changing out the chain.

Most of the women I know--unless they race--can generally deal with losing their biggest gear with a compact. You may end up spinning out descending steep hills, but it's not that big of a deal. As for the gears in the middle of the spread that you lose, it's often a matter of getting used to it. I use a compact after having ridden a triple for a while. I miss some of my flatland gears at times; the triple made it easier to find the sweet spot, but I've adapted.

So, without knowing what kind of gears you need given your terrain, it's hard to conclusively say whether a compact is the best option for you.

I can't speak to 650 wheels. It's my understanding that for certain small size bikes, they are an appropriate option. If that's the case for you, I'm not sure I'd lose any sleep over it. But that's me. I don't even have a speedometer on my bikes. :rolleyes:

[ny biker]

my new bike is a Felt, 43cm, with 650 wheels and is a compact. Some people have told me the 650 wheels will really slow me down and the compact doesn't help either. Did I make a mistake??:(:(

Do not listen to these people. Just enjoy riding your bike.

I went from a bike with a triple and a 9-speed cassette to a bike with a compact double and a 10-speed cassette, and using Sheldon Brown's gear ratio calculator I was able to determine that the easiest gear was the same on both bikes. The same frame was available with a triple and a 10-speed cassette, and that would have given me a lower gear, but I've found that the compact double is fine for me, despite the fact that there are some very steep hills around here and I have asthma that is triggered by riding up steep hills.

I also find that the compact double requires much less adjusting than the triple derailleur.

As for the wheels, I think it's most important that you have a bike that fits you and is comfortable to ride. Discomfort slows you down.

And you can always look into getting different wheels later, possibly a different size or the same size but with other features that help you ride faster.

[Becky]

A change in wheel size will affect the gearing. I found this Wikipedia article helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_inches. Also check out Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, linked at the bottom of that article.

I have ridden 650 wheels and I've ridden 700 wheels. Honestly, the only concession I ever made to the 650s was that I generally picked a slightly harder cog on the cassette than I would have on the 700s. If you find yourself undergeared, it's not too hard to increase the gearing at either the cassette or the chainrings. IMO, the slight reduction in gearing is worth it if those smaller wheels help you achieve a better, more comfortable fit.

[Grits]

First of all, congratulations on your new bike!!

Many road bikes made today don't even have the option of coming with a triple because the extra weight slows the bike down. Having said that, if you need a triple for climbing, it is totally worth any extra weight.

I went from a triple to compact double on my road bike and haven't missed the triple at all. It isn't mountainous around here, but plenty of rolling hills. It certainly hasn't slowed me down.

I can't speak personally to the tires, but a quick google search came up with this which indiicates that the tires are not going to slow you down either:

"Finally, there’s the question of the speed value of 700c versus 650c. There will always be exponents of one wheel size versus the other. My training partner slays everyone on straight-line descents, even those who weigh considerably more than him, and he swears it’s his 650c wheels. Others claim differently. One cannot deny, however, than many of the very fastest bike rides in the history of timed triathlon racing occurred on 650c wheels, both in the men’s and women’s fields. All this is anecdotal, however rides in Zofingen, IM Canada, IM New Zealand, IM Hawaii, IM Germany—most of the big courses in the big races of yesteryear, when 650c wheels were popular—still stand up today, as much as 12 and 15 years after they were accomplished."

Now, the bigger question is who on earth are these people who are trying to bring you down about your new bike?? As long as you are comfortable riding it, DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM! There is always someone with a different opinion about what is faster. You have your nice new bike now. Have fun with it and don't second guess yourself! Have you posted a picture yet?

[TigerMom]

+1 on sucha a great explanation from Indysteel

If you are very short, sometimes, the only bikes you fit on are the XXS bikes with the 650cc tires. Yes, the 650cc wheels are smaller, hence, likely you will be slower per pedal spin. However, if the small bike fits better than a bigger bike with 700cc, then you made the right bike decision.

As for the crankset, the compact helps to go up the hill compared to standard cranksets. Triples are heavier, but have more gears if you ride in very hilly areas. Personally, for me, triples are slightly complicated on road bikes because, as far as I know, there are no numbers on the handlebars that let you know whether you are on the big, middle, or smallest gear (unlike my hybrid or a mountain bike).
_______________________________
2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle

2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle

[indysteel]

Having said that, if you need a triple for climbing, it is totally worth any extra weight.

I think this misstates the issue. A triple is not, in and of itself, better for climbing. It depends on what cassette it is paired with. You can pair a compact double to a widely spaced cassette that essentially provides the same easy gears that a triple theoretically does. With that fix, what is lost are the gears in the middle of the gear range. Between the more widely spaced chainrings of a compact and more widely spaced cogs of a cassette geared for hard climbing, you end up with bigger gaps between gears, which makes finding just the right gear for flat or windy conditions a bit more challenging. To me, that is the real downside of a compact double. The climbing concerns are easily overcome.

I also like triples on real rolling terrain. At least for me, I end up having to shift "up front" a lot more on rollers with a compact than I would with the average triple set up. With a triple, I can often just shift between my rear cogs on rollers. Either way you're shifting, but for some reason, I prefer my shifts be within the rear cassette and not up front between chainrings. Maybe because I'm lazy. :rolleyes:

[Owlie]

my new bike is a Felt, 43cm, with 650 wheels and is a compact. Some people have told me the 650 wheels will really slow me down and the compact doesn't help either. Did I make a mistake??:(:(

What everyone else said. If you need a 43cm, then it's unlikely that you could ride a bike with 700c wheels.

Triple vs. compact double is a little weird. It's hard finding off-the-shelf bikes with nicer-than-entry-level components with a triple crankset. The shifting on a compact double is nicer and the bike overall ends up lighter. If you have a lot of steep hills, then a triple might be better.

[Kathi]

Anti 650c talk has been around forever. In the mid 90's my 1st small frame had 650c wheels and I was hearing the same kind of comments. That said, I love my 650's so much that I stayed with them when I had my custom frame built. At the same time I also demoed a bike with 700c wheels and honestly couldn't tell the difference.

Here's more information about 650c wheelsets,

http://www.rodbikes.com/blog/?p=355

I also have a compact crank, it's a Specialities TA crankset with a 48t big ring in the front. Rear is 13x29 ( Campy cassette). I do spin out on downhills but get much more use from my big ring. I can climb most hillls even though I don't ride hills as much as I used to. I love my 48t ring, I often stay in that ring on easy climbs.

I've never had a triple so I can't compare but my observation of the women I knew riding triples is they almost never used their big ring in the front on rolling terrain except for downhills (I'm sure some here will disagree).

If you find your having trouble with hills consider getting a larger cassette. Also, make sure you carry a tube with you in case of flats. Other than that you'll be fine, enjoy your new bike.

[Artista]

You didn't make a mistake if your new bike fits and it's the highest quality that fit into your budget.

I had a vintage frame updated with an entirely new drive train, including a triple chain ring. As Kathi mentioned, I only use my big ring on lengthy downhills. While you are wondering if you should have gotten a triple, I used to wonder whether I should have gone with a compact double. Sometimes we do too much second guessing. I say "If the bike fits, ride it":)

[Koronin]

I have 1 road bike with 650c (Trek 2000 older bike) and a Felt F-5 with 700c. As far as the wheels don't know if it really makes that much difference. The F-5 fits me better (bought the Trek used and the Felt new). The biggest difference really is that the 700c are much more common so if you are riding with a group and get a flat you are much more likely for someone to have a tire if you didn't bring one. With the 650c you'd most likely better make sure you have a spare with you.

Now for the triple vs the compact double. Again the Trek has the triple and the Felt has the compact double. Personally I like the triple much better. I just am not nearly as happy with the gearing on the compact double and may change it to a triple at some point in the future.

[malkin]

I think you've got a great bike!

You'll find out more from riding your bike than listening to the numpties. You may want to make a few changes in the set up, but you'll only figure out what to do based on what happens when you ride. So go ride and have some fun!

I have certainly owned a few bikes that were pretty far from perfect and a few that were much better, but I'm smarter now because of them.

[Owlie]

I don't do a lot of climbing, but I do use my big ring on flat ground if I feel up to it and on descents. I don't use my little ring a whole lot, but that'll probably change if/when I start doing more climbing. My fitter says I should probably switch to a compact double for both mechanical and knee reasons, but I like the feel of the triple vs. that of the compact double, though I suppose I could get used to it. I'd personally like gearing that is good for a bit of everything, so I'm a little wary of losing gears with a double. (Right now, I have climbing gears and "go fast" gears, but no cruising gears...)

[Becky]

I have certainly owned a few bikes that were pretty far from perfect and a few that were much better, but I'm smarter now because of them.

Like!

[Custardcup1]

Thanks everyone for the info and encouragement!! I love the way my bike looks and fits me. It's the only one of many I tried that really felt right. I am just going to ride the bike and enjoy myself. If I really find I think I need a triple, I can make some changes at a later date, but for now I think I just have to take the time to get used to a road bike. This is my first one, I had a Trek Hybrid before. Thanks again, this forum is great!

[Fredwina]

The world's fastest bicycle uses 24 inch wheels: :)
http://www.varnahandcycles.com/press1.htm
Yeah, I had to get a bent plug in somehow.

[Skierchickie]

Is it possible that your "advisors" we're comparing to a standard double, and not a triple? The standard wouldn't have the weight penalty of the triple.

I've never ridden a compact, so know nothing there. Only recently acquired a triple, my Dad's Trek Pilot 5.0. Not sure the gearing is as good as my standard double (I know the high end isn't as high - similar cassette, but only a 50 big ring, vs the 52 I'm used to).

If I were buying new today, I'd probably consider the compact vs the standard. I like having the triple so far, but have been trying to avoid the little ring, but also end up cross-chaining a lot, so need to use it. So far prefer the double, but it's what I've ridden forever.

As far as the spacing of the compact goes, just remember everybody used to ride 10 speeds! Just imagine going back to the same high & low end, with only 4 steps between!

[Crankin]

Not sure if I can add more to this discussion, but for what it's worth, I have had 4 bikes with triples in the past 12 years, and this year, I also bought a custom bike with a compact double, that has "mountain gearing" on the rear cassette.
I also had 2 bikes with 650 wheels and my present carbon road bike has 700 wheels. I am short (5' 1", barely).
The wheels: I never noticed a difference when I made the switch, in terms of speed. I felt "higher up," with the 700s if that makes sense, but no difference in my riding speed. My custom bike has a more relaxed geometry, and I do have to be careful of toe overlap, but only on very tight turns. Since I am not the kind of rider that does tight turns often, I only think about it when I am turning into my driveway, from one certain direction.
Triple/compact: I had no trouble shifting with double, in terms of "learning." I thought I might, but it was kind of intuitive for me. I did have trouble finding the sweet spot, which for me is the 16 cog, which I don't have on the compact. I have very, very low gearing on my bike with the compact, as this is the bike that is used for travelling, as in mountains/steep hills. Initially, my speed was down a bit on this bike, because I felt like I was always spinning in too easy of a gear or my legs hurt from too hard a gear. But, I started riding this bike more, and eventually, this difference went away. I think, I got stronger, and am used to riding in the big ring, 17 cog. I try to ride this bike about 30-40% of the time, so I don't lose this edge.
I use the small ring on the compact for hills where I might stay in the middle ring on my triple (such as in Strawberry Hill Rd, for those from the Boston area), as I feel it gives me a little more leeway and I don't want to be "caught" in a gear that makes me mash.
Take the advice of others, get a rear cassette with a lower gear, and you're good to go. I've even done this with my triple; I started with a 12-25, went to a 27, and this year went to a 28. I really don't need a 28, but I live on a big hill, I'm not so young, and my plan is to save my knees, so I can keep riding.

[indysteel]

I did have trouble finding the sweet spot, which for me is the 16 cog, which I don't have on the compact. I have very, very low gearing on my bike with the compact, as this is the bike that is used for travelling, as in mountains/steep hills. Initially, my speed was down a bit on this bike, because I felt like I was always spinning in too easy of a gear or my legs hurt from too hard a gear. But, I started riding this bike more, and eventually, this difference went away.

While I do still have my 16 cog, this was my experience as well. With my compat, I also find myself either mashing or spinning at times, but I have gotten more used to it over time. Like Crankin, I more or less "hung out" in the middle ring of my triple, and I sort of miss the ease of that and the ability to fine tune my gearing.

I switched to a compact originally because the triple's wider q factor (a fancy term that basically means the width between the pedals) aggravated my right IT band. Campy has a new triple coming out soon with a narrower q factor, and I'm seriously considering getting it. The shifting on my old Campy crank was great once set up properly so I don't care all that much that compacts are generally easier to shift, and I could care less about weight savings.

[malkin]

For me, the only advantage of 700 wheels is that we don't have to be so careful about keeping two sizes of tires and tubes. We are pretty far from organized here, so this is an advantage.

Well, I guess now that we have folders, we do, but they are easy enough to tell apart.

[sgf726]

Both of my bikes have a compact double, they are both 50-34 in the front and my road bike is 11-28 and my tri-bike is 11-25.

I have been ridding the compact doubles for about 6 years, I ride in fairly hilly terrian and when I had the triple almost never used the lowest gears. I tended to ride 80% of the time in the largest cog and go to the middle for hills. I still ride most of the time in the large cog and only switch to the smaller cog for steep or longer hills.

I actually find the double much smoother and easier to use than the triple and with the 11-28 I really don't think you lose much from a standard triple.

[Koronin]

While I do still have my 16 cog, this was my experience as well. With my compat, I also find myself either mashing or spinning at times, but I have gotten more used to it over time. Like Crankin, I more or less "hung out" in the middle ring of my triple, and I sort of miss the ease of that and the ability to fine tune my gearing.

I switched to a compact originally because the triple's wider q factor (a fancy term that basically means the width between the pedals) aggravated my right IT band. Campy has a new triple coming out soon with a narrower q factor, and I'm seriously considering getting it. The shifting on my old Campy crank was great once set up properly so I don't care all that much that compacts are generally easier to shift, and I could care less about weight savings.

This is also my issue with the compact double and my reason for really looking at changing the bike to a triple. The not being able to find the sweet spot is aggravating to me.

[indysteel]

This is also my issue with the compact double and my reason for really looking at changing the bike to a triple. The not being able to find the sweet spot is aggravating to me.

I hear ya. I feel like Goldilocks some days on my bike. This gear is too big. That gear is too small. Part of it is that I'm lazy. I've gotten better about shifting between chainrings, but the middle ring of my triple spoiled me, so I often don't shift between chainrings when I really should.

Oh well, as somebody upthread reminded us, many of us used to get by with just 10 gears or less. I guess I'm spoiled in more ways than one.

[ZenBiker]

I was having doubts similar to the OP when I bought my first road bike, a compact double, after riding a hybrid with a triple. I expected to zip up hills because of the lovely carbon road bike, and instead I was struggling with them. I felt like I needed some lower gears. (These are hills I didn't really even try on my hybrid).

BUT - I now love my compact double. Three things happened to change my perspective:
- I did the math and realized I hadn't really given up very much in terms of my lowest gear. (I have an 11-28 cassette on the road bike).
- I got stronger
- I got better at knowing when to shift and how to breathe on a hill

Now I can ride hills - I'm not the fastest in my group, but I'm not the slowest either. And if I keep riding I will just keep getting better. So the limiting factor was never my bike, it was the engine (me). if you love being on your bike because it fits, you will ride more, and you'll be able to do everything you want to - unless you literally want to climb mountains, then I'm guessing a triple would be in order!

Can't comment on the wheel size, I haven't had a chance to compare.

[Chile Pepper]

I love my compact double, but I remember how weird it felt when I first switched from a standard. After about a month, something just clicked and I never thought about it again. Maybe you just need to give it time.

[ny biker]

When I had a triple I only ever used the big chain ring when I was doing spinning tapes on the indoor trainer. I mostly used the middle ring, and used the small ring for steep hills.

With the compact double, I mostly use the smaller ring. When I use the larger one it tends to bother my knee (I have a patella tracking problem), though I do sometimes use it when I know I'll be on flat ground for a while. When the cassette wears out and needs to be replaced, I plan to have a chat with the LBS folks about possibly getting a smaller large chain ring so that I'll have something I can use with less pain.

[Koronin]

I hear ya. I feel like Goldilocks some days on my bike. This gear is too big. That gear is too small. Part of it is that I'm lazy. I've gotten better about shifting between chainrings, but the middle ring of my triple spoiled me, so I often don't shift between chainrings when I really should.

Oh well, as somebody upthread reminded us, many of us used to get by with just 10 gears or less. I guess I'm spoiled in more ways than one.

That is exactly my issue as well. I love the middle ring on the triple and it also spoiled me in not needing to shift much. One thing my husband was looking at was just swapping the smaller ring on my compact double with what would be equivalent to the middle ring on the triple. I live at the coast, it's not like we have many hills around here, unless you count the bridge to Emerald Isle.

[Seajay]

Great advice here. So called "experienced cyclists" opinions are as subject to scrutiny as anyone else's...maybe more. Be comfortable on your bike, love your bike and ignore the rest.

Yes, you have a lower gear with 650...but that's why we have gears.
IMO...Compact mainly means you have fewer high gears, not that you are lacking a high gear. 50x11,12. You just get into midrange gears earlier 50x14 etc.

Exhibit A. Mirinda Carfrae 2010 IronMan world champ on 650 wheels. Guaranteed she wouldn't have been on 650 if it was slower.

[colorisnt]

I used to have a compact bike. My main bike was a triple and now my only bike is a triple. Hill climbing here is a huge thing. HUGE hills, so I have to say the triple is much better. Back home on the flat I don't think it would have made a dang bit of difference. Ride it, see how you do, and you can always upgrade. That said, I do ride here with people who have compacts and they climb with me just fine. I just prefer the triple.

As for the wheel size, you are TINY and that bike is tiny. I have a 700 set on my 47, but that is 4 cm difference. Any smaller and the bike shop I got my bike from would have recommended a 650. I didn't freak out over it because I didn't really care as long as it fit.

Ignore the haters!