One bike for everything?

[snyderd25]

Is it possible? I'm considering a Salsa Casserole or a Surly Crosscheck as a do it all bike... Commuting, centuries, etc. does this make sense? Also... Fewer dealers in those brands and the LBS didnt seem to have a fit expert. Suggestions?

[indysteel]

Those are good choices for do it all bikes, although be forewarned that Salsa is discontinuing the Casseroll for 2013. You might have trouble finding one in your size. The Salsa Vaya might be a good alternative.

If this isn't your first bike, try to compare the geometry of your current bike (assuming it fits) to the geometry charts for Salsa and Surly. See if there's anything close. How tall are you? What's your inseam? Are you long armed and how's your flexibility? Maybe we can help narrow it down for you. Once you have the bike, feel free to schedule an appointment with a fitter at another shop. You'll have to pay for a comprehensive fitting, but it will be well worth the money.

[OakLeaf]

..... One Bike to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them ...


Sorry. I really tried to resist. I really did.

[Catrin]

Thanks Murienn, I hadn't heard that yet :cool:

[zoom-zoom]

What about a Salsa Warbird? It's a gravel road racer. The Crosscheck is really nice, but pretty heavy.

[murielalex]

I have a Gunnar Sport, which I bought for the same reason as you. I don't have fenders or a rack on it, but plan on doing so if/when that makes sense. I've used it for commuting, for regular 30-50-mile weekend rides, and have 100-mile-plus charity rides planned over the next three months. So far, I've been more than happy.

[zoom-zoom]

I have a Gunnar Sport, which I bought for the same reason as you. I don't have fenders or a rack on it, but plan on doing so if/when that makes sense. I've used it for commuting, for regular 30-50-mile weekend rides, and have 100-mile-plus charity rides planned over the next three months. So far, I've been more than happy.

I have several friends who have the Gunnar CX bike and use it for both paved and gravel road riding. Really nice bike, but they don't make it small enough for shorter folks. I think the shortest person I know on one is about 5'7".

I love my Redline Conquest. I've ridden it with knobbies or slicks and I'm pretty sure it can take fenders and panniers.

[indysteel]

What about a Salsa Warbird? It's a gravel road racer. The Crosscheck is really nice, but pretty heavy.

Yeah but that weight savings comes at a price. Even the AL version of the Warbird is a far bit more expensive than the Crosscheck, Vaya or Casseroll. Plus, it's AL. I wonder how it rides in comparison.

[rubysoho]

Kona Jake the Snake?

[snyderd25]

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately my current bike does not fit well. I think it's too small. I put way too much weight on upper body and now have nasty tendinitis in my elbows. It's a 51 cm specialized dolce from 2007. I am 5'6".... And I guess I better figure out those other measurements!

Thanks for he help!

[indysteel]

Have you ever had a fitting? Sometimes you can remedy having too much weight in your upper body by moving the saddle back. I know it may seem counterintuitive but it's worth a shot.

[Veronica]

I did everything on my first bike - Rivendell Rambouillet, commuted to work, self supported tour of Nova Scotia, towing a trailer, and my first three double centuries (200 miles in 1 day).

So yeah it's possible. :D

Veronica

[pll]

+1 on the suggestion to get a fit.

When I shopped for my current bike, I started with a fitting to get some recommendations on bikes to test. I did this after testing many, but without a clear idea of what to try. I find testing bikes is not easy and I most definitely did not enjoy the process: bike shops won't have the right size, some do less than a cursory fit for you to test; you may not know the neighborhood and might be concentrating more on where you are riding instead of the feeling of the bike.

With my old bike, I put too much weight on my arms and shoulders. They bike was somewhat big for me and I needed (and always will need) more work on my core. I admit that work on my core sporadically. I also put it to the test on the bike, by riding stretches where I keep my riding position but put no weight on my hands at all.

[Owlie]

I have several friends who have the Gunnar CX bike and use it for both paved and gravel road riding. Really nice bike, but they don't make it small enough for shorter folks. I think the shortest person I know on one is about 5'7".

I love my Redline Conquest. I've ridden it with knobbies or slicks and I'm pretty sure it can take fenders and panniers.

A CX bike with rack mounts is probably a good do-anything bike. :D

Shame about the Gunnar. I just looked up their geometry chart. I'm about 5'7", but I'd probably have to be on the smallest size they make!

[Sky King]

on a vain note, the 2012 Surly Cross Checks as so pretty :) I love the current color. As a proponent of Surly, I would vote for it. My DH uses a cross check as his everything bike, in fact he just did a 3 day tour on his, pulling a bob trailer and it only has two gears. Like Veronica, I am totally spoiled with my Rivendell. She is a fabulous do everything bike for me.

[snyderd25]

Have you ever had a fitting? Sometimes you can remedy having too much weight in your upper body by moving the saddle back. I know it may seem counterintuitive but it's worth a shot.

Lots of fittings. Three this past spring. Couldn't get it right. Maybe it's not fixable?

[nuliajuk]

A CX bike with rack mounts is probably a good do-anything bike. :D
...
There are lots of 'cross bikes on the market. Check out the Kona Jake, Rocky Mountain CRX, Ridley Crossbow... no doubt there are many others. Generally, the lowest priced model in the lineup will be the versatile one with the rack and fender eyelets.
My husband rode his Rocky Mountain for two years, then sold it to a young woman who wanted to do triathlons on it. She figured on using it with the fat tires for most of the training (the roads are really bad here) and then putting skinny road tires on for racing day. (DH still has a 'cross bike, now a Ridley Crossbow).

[indysteel]

Lots of fittings. Three this past spring. Couldn't get it right. Maybe it's not fixable?

Oh, that's a shame. If after three fittings, it still isn't comfortable, then I'd say either the bike just isn't for you or that you have a physical issue that is causing your pain. I'd be hesitant to buy a new bike without the input of a fitter. Is is that your hands hurt?

[OakLeaf]

I think she said elbow tendinitis. Gripping the bars too tightly is what I'd suspect ... that might be a fit issue directly with bars the wrong width or bend, or it might be an indirect thing where she's hanging on for dear life because the bike feels squirrelly, or it might just be a bad habit.

snyderd, what's your preferred hand position? Do you change positions now and then during your rides (hoods, drops, tops if there's room)? Do you shake your arms and hands out periodically? Do you notice yourself (or did your fitter notice you) gripping too tightly? You said three fittings, but how many different handlebars did you try?

[Veronica]

Like Veronica, I am totally spoiled with my Rivendell. She is a fabulous do everything bike for me.


I've since moved on to two other bikes - a Rivendell Legolas and a Cervelo S3. The Legolas could certainly handle light self supported touring and maybe I could even tow with it. The Cervelo... not so much. :D

But my riding focus has changed greatly since I started riding.

Veronica

[snyderd25]

..... One Bike to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them ...


Sorry. I really tried to resist. I really did.


I think she said elbow tendinitis. Gripping the bars too tightly is what I'd suspect ... that might be a fit issue directly with bars the wrong width or bend, or it might be an indirect thing where she's hanging on for dear life because the bike feels squirrelly, or it might just be a bad habit.

snyderd, what's your preferred hand position? Do you change positions now and then during your rides (hoods, drops, tops if there's room)? Do you shake your arms and hands out periodically? Do you notice yourself (or did your fitter notice you) gripping too tightly? You said three fittings, but how many different handlebars did you try?


I ended up with both tennis and golfers elbow in both elbows while training for century ride this spring. That's why I thought the relaxed fit of the casserole might work out. I definitely grip too tight, but I also put a lot of weight on upper body. I suggested changing handlebars but the fitters ( i tried two) didn't want to. We changed seat post and 3 diff stems. I do move hands a bit, mostly from hoods to straight in front. I rarely use drops. I am unable to stand and pedal in this bike ( not sure if that's fit issue). I def shake out hands and arms and stretch along he way.

[Miranda]

Cyclocross bikes rock. Love, love, love mine.

It's just a cheap no brand name internet special. But the geometry was within one cm of my Orbea carbon roadie (input of two fitters). So I knew I was good to go in ordering it on my own.

Sorry to hear about your pain issues. I've had my share of pain as well. One source of which was my ill fitting first road bike (two frame sizes too big, sold to by a lbs, not associated with the other two fitters).

I know for me it seems my physical fittness plays a role in how much pressure I put on my hands. When I am lighter, stronger, I notice less in my hands.

Good Luck!

[warneral]

Bianchi volpe is another option. I couldn't find any casseroles in Wisconsin when I went looking last week. I currently considering building a soma double cross

I'll still keep my road bike but this should work for everything else (rail trails, around town, future touring)

[eofelis]

I have a Gunnar Sport also. Mine is tiny, 41cm. It was a custom geometry frame. Dreamy ride, but still a road bike.

The Cross Check is certainly a great do it all bike, especially if you want all the tire clearance it offers. I have a Motobecane Fantom CXX (from bikesdirect . com) that is basically the same frame as the Cross Check. The 42cm size fit me just fine.

The Surly Pacer, the road bike frame, is also very nice. Not as light and fast as most road bikes, but extremely comfy and bombproof. I'd light tour on a bike like that.

What size bike are you looking at? What is your budget?

[kamikazejane]

CX bike all the way. Picked up a Specialized Crux Expert Force...love it. Throw the knobbies on for dirt training and the slicks for the road. Did a Century on it a few weeks ago and was supper comfortable the whole ride. I race around with the guys on some spirited rides with paces getting up to 24mph and really looking forward to being able to ride year round on it. I think it's the do it all bike. Pretty good in the weight department as well. The only thing to think about is if you are willing to maybe pick up an extra wheelset for slicks or possibly switch the chainring out. I wasn't too fond of the set up on mine and switched to a 50/34. I am 5'4" and fit perfectly on the 52cm Crux and I have a bad back which hasn't caused too many issues with the more upright sitting on the Crux. So yeah...CX all the way for the all around bike IMO.

[OakLeaf]

... may I ask which level(s) your back issue is at?

My PT has suggested that if I ever get back on a bike at all, I'll need to ditch the road bike. I've got issues at multiple levels, but the one that really gets nailed on the road bike is L3-4. I'm still skeptical that anything shy of a unicycle would let me ride in perfectly neutral spine regardless of terrain ... but I'd like to hear your experience.

[kamikazejane]

... may I ask which level(s) your back issue is at?

My PT has suggested that if I ever get back on a bike at all, I'll need to ditch the road bike. I've got issues at multiple levels, but the one that really gets nailed on the road bike is L3-4. I'm still skeptical that anything shy of a unicycle would let me ride in perfectly neutral spine regardless of terrain ... but I'd like to hear your experience.

My back is all out of whack. 50% of my T9 vertebrae is gone and then mild compression at T7, T8, T10, T11 and T12. Severe joint deformity in T9-T11. Disc deformity and compression all through my Thoracic as well. Everything that is going on in my Thoracic spine though has an effect on the rest of my spine. My lower back continues to try to compensate for the Thoracic and then the muscles and ligaments are constantly fighting to keep or try to pull my back back into it's natural alignment which it will never be in given the Kyphosis with half of T9 being gone. I have chronic pain every day but 75% of it was relieved with nerve ablation. Now it's just the residual pain from other nerves, joints, ligaments and muscles that are still lingering but not as severe.

The one thing my doctor said to me was to continue cycling if I can deal with the pain that I might have. He said sitting around doing nothing will only make the pain worse and affect my overall health and mental well being. I am only 33 and he knows I am a very active individual so he looks at the overall picture. I won't be doing any more damage cycling unless I crash and have a harsh force on my spine. The pain now is just nerves, muscles and ligaments getting aggrevated from the activity. So if I can deal with that aggrevation/pain then no need to stop cycling. I have noticed that my back has strengthed up and the pain takes longer to set in. I try to stretch before, during and after riding. So do I ride pain free? No. My pain is less/takes longer to set in on the CX bike because I sit more upright. On my Felt I can only last 15 minutes before back pain sets in.

So sorry you having to deal with back pain as well. I hope it gets better for you. I think I am just to the point that it's such an every day thing that it's just now a part of life.

[OakLeaf]

Oh man kj, so sorry you're having to deal with all that.

In a crazy way it's actually reassuring to me though. What I'm most terrified of is the nerve compression getting into the motor nerves. I can deal with the numbness and there's only a little bit of pain in my back and legs (my arms are another story, but I really think most of that's from the thoracic outlet, not the spinal nerves). But I obviously don't want to risk losing the use of my legs. If you can continue to be active and d*mn the torpedoes/pain/numbness, then maybe I'll be able to as well.

[Owlie]

CX bike all the way. Picked up a Specialized Crux Expert Force...love it. Throw the knobbies on for dirt training and the slicks for the road. Did a Century on it a few weeks ago and was supper comfortable the whole ride. I race around with the guys on some spirited rides with paces getting up to 24mph and really looking forward to being able to ride year round on it. I think it's the do it all bike. Pretty good in the weight department as well. The only thing to think about is if you are willing to maybe pick up an extra wheelset for slicks or possibly switch the chainring out. I wasn't too fond of the set up on mine and switched to a 50/34. I am 5'4" and fit perfectly on the 52cm Crux and I have a bad back which hasn't caused too many issues with the more upright sitting on the Crux. So yeah...CX all the way for the all around bike IMO.

Do you have a long torso? I'm 3" taller than you and would ride the same size! Can it take a rack? I really like the Surly Cross-check, but I don't think I can ride one, since the top tubes are LONG. There's a shortage of WSD CX bikes out there, and I need a relatively short top tube, so the Crux/Tricross might be the best bet for me.

[kamikazejane]

Do you have a long torso? I'm 3" taller than you and would ride the same size! Can it take a rack? I really like the Surly Cross-check, but I don't think I can ride one, since the top tubes are LONG. There's a shortage of WSD CX bikes out there, and I need a relatively short top tube, so the Crux/Tricross might be the best bet for me.

I am a little longer in the legs than torso. The top tube isn't long on the 52 cm Crux at all. It measures about the same as a 51cm WSD Specialized road bike from what I recall when I was getting fitted for possibly a new Amira. And then the handlebar stem has a nice raised angle as well. I am not sure about the rack but I am sure it can work. I think Specialized is coming out with a more WSD CX bike for 2013. I havn't seen it yet but I think I read it on bikeradar.com or something. I havn't had any problems with the throw in shifting or reaching for the brakes and I have small hands. The cranks they use on the Crux Force are the same they put on the WSD road bikes so it's pretty female friendly straight off the bat. Overall, I can't say enough positive things about the bike. I know I saw some brand new ones on ebay over the past month if you are looking to save a few pennies.

[moderncyclista]

Yeah but that weight savings comes at a price. Even the AL version of the Warbird is a far bit more expensive than the Crosscheck, Vaya or Casseroll. Plus, it's AL. I wonder how it rides in comparison.

Bwahaha! Surly states on their blog that they're thinking of pouring molten lead into their frames because so many people say they're "heavy". LOL.

I have an LHT. I love it. It's not that heavy. If you're not competing in the pelotons of racing glory, you should be just fine.

Surly's are the most versatile, capable bikes with possibilities for modification, that I've ever come across. The Cross-Check can fit really big 700x45c tires. Such a cushy darned ride! The LHT has big clearances too! I've ridden long distance on my LHT, it's not impossible. I don't think the Salsa's are as modifiable or customizable to suit the rider's tastes. Which now that I've owned a Surly, I don't know if I can get enough of!!! :D

I also like that Surly powdercoats their bikes, which isn't pretty but is extremely durable.

My brain keeps nagging, get a Rivendell, but where would I park that fancy of a bike. Nowhere. I don't live in a high-crime city, but damn I'd need 16frickenlocks to lock up that thing. And a car alarm. And a doberman. I already lock my bikes like a crazy-person anyway. #bikethievessuck

Best of Luck in your search! *get a cross-check* Tee-hee!

[eofelis]

Bwahaha! Surly states on their blog that they're thinking of pouring molten lead into their frames because so many people say they're "heavy". LOL.

I have an LHT. I love it. It's not that heavy. If you're not competing in the pelotons of racing glory, you should be just fine.

Surly's are the most versatile, capable bikes with possibilities for modification, that I've ever come across. The Cross-Check can fit really big 700x45c tires. Such a cushy darned ride! The LHT has big clearances too! I've ridden long distance on my LHT, it's not impossible. I don't think the Salsa's are as modifiable or customizable to suit the rider's tastes. Which now that I've owned a Surly, I don't know if I can get enough of!!! :D

I also like that Surly powdercoats their bikes, which isn't pretty but is extremely durable.

My brain keeps nagging, get a Rivendell, but where would I park that fancy of a bike. Nowhere. I don't live in a high-crime city, but damn I'd need 16frickenlocks to lock up that thing. And a car alarm. And a doberman. I already lock my bikes like a crazy-person anyway. #bikethievessuck

Best of Luck in your search! *get a cross-check* Tee-hee!

My tiny little LHT (42cm) is piggy on weight. Nearly 30lbs. It's built with fairly lightweight stuff: XT drivetrain, 23h Bontrager Mustang wheels, and lightweight Delta/Blackburn racks. But it's still a cadillac ride. I've done a few 60 mile day rides with it.

My pseudo-Crosscheck (Motobecane Fantom CXX (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cxx.htm)) is a bit heavy, but a frisky ride compared the the LHT.

Surly bikes are pretty awesome for the pricepoint. My SO has an LHT and a Crosscheck.

[goldfinch]

My tiny little LHT (42cm) is piggy on weight. Nearly 30lbs. It's built with fairly lightweight stuff: XT drivetrain, 23h Bontrager Mustang wheels, and lightweight Delta/Blackburn racks. But it's still a cadillac ride. I've done a few 60 mile day rides with it.

My pseudo-Crosscheck (Motobecane Fantom CXX (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cxx.htm)) is a bit heavy, but a frisky ride compared the the LHT.

Surly bikes are pretty awesome for the pricepoint. My SO has an LHT and a Crosscheck.


What would you use the LHT for that you wouldn't use the Gunnar?

(Man, that was a awkward sentence, must be tired. . . )

[WindingRoad]

As the super content owner of a Salsa Vaya I will throw it out there that Salsa does make the Vaya in titanium if you can budget that. I simply LOVE my Vaya. Most comfortable bike ever and even though it's not a light weight it still has a lot of pep. I didn't try to build mine up light. It's more utility than anything but I find it's still my favorite bike of any I have owned. If I could change anything about it I would have bought the frame in titanium but the price wasnt an option at the time. Maybe in the future :-)

[moderncyclista]

As the super content owner of a Salsa Vaya I will throw it out there that Salsa does make the Vaya in titanium if you can budget that. I simply LOVE my Vaya. Most comfortable bike ever and even though it's not a light weight it still has a lot of pep. I didn't try to build mine up light. It's more utility than anything but I find it's still my favorite bike of any I have owned. If I could change anything about it I would have bought the frame in titanium but the price wasnt an option at the time. Maybe in the future :-)

Doesn't titanium fatigue (ie. stretch and become spongy on a microscopic level - affecting power and pedal stroke to energy convergence) like aluminum over time? Steel always seems like a better choice, to me anyways.

I've still mulled over an Atlantis despite the risky propositions of chaining it up...anywhere. LOL. But, budget and possibility wise, my money is still on the Cross-Check. (If you're not into the LHT that is.) ;D

[Crankin]

There's nothing stretchy about my titanium bike.

[moderncyclista]

There's nothing stretchy about my titanium bike.

Frame fatigue is supposed to take years. I'm not a metallurgist, so it's just something I've heard about in bike shops and read about online. New bikes probably wouldn't feel stretchy, and in the time it takes for the metal to fatigue - I'm sure most people assume they're getting slower because of age, not power transfer. *shrugs*

[Blueberry]

It would seem that it does not: http://www.ibiscycles.com/support/technical_articles/metallurgy_for_cyclists/the_titanium_advantage/


As long as these loads are kept below a certain level, titanium and steel both have thresholds below which they will never fail.

[moderncyclista]

It would seem that it does not: http://www.ibiscycles.com/support/technical_articles/metallurgy_for_cyclists/the_titanium_advantage/

"Fatigue is a stochastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic) process, often showing considerable scatter even in controlled environments.
The greater the applied stress, the shorter the life.

Fatigue life scatter tends to increase for longer fatigue lives.

Damage is cumulative. Materials do not recover when rested.

Fatigue life is influenced by a variety of factors, such as temperature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature), surface finish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_finish),

presence of oxidizing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidizing) or inert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert) chemicals, residual stresses, contact (fretting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretting)), etc.

Some materials (e.g., some steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel) and titanium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium) alloys) exhibit a *theoretical* fatigue limit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit) below which continued loading does not lead to failure.

In recent years, researchers (see for example the work of Bathias, Murakami, and Stanzl-Tschegg) have found that *failures occur below the theoretical fatigue limit* at very high fatigue lives (109 to 1010 cycles). An ultrasonic resonance technique is used in these experiments with frequencies around 10-20 kHz."

I guess it "is" possible, even below expected limits. That's why I've seen even steel frames crack. Meh. Carry on. :)

Again, I vote Cross-Check! A single-speed complete version comes out sometime the end of this month! Single-Check!

[Biciclista]

Titanium may be fatiguable (is that a word?) but no one I know has ever had an issue with that. So while it might be within the realm of possibility, I'm betting my steel frame and all my friends' titanium frames will out last any carbon or aluminum bikes..... so that isn't something a normal sized person should be worrying about. We use titanium for its strength and lightness in airplanes... And THEY get a workout.

[Biciclista]

oh and I use one bike for everything too. It's a custom steel framed road bike (Davidson) I have a whole bunch of stuff on it, but i use it for shopping, going to the library AND big rides (well, nothing really long recently)

[Rubylvr]

Hi-
I was wondering how you compared your specialized Ruby and your Gunnar sport? I am seriously thinking of switching my Ruby frame for a Gunnar steel.
ANy input appreciated.

[nuliajuk]

Steel fatigues over time as well. My old touring bike, which I had for 23 years, eventually started to feel too whippy for comfort. And I've seen steel frames break - usually track frames, while some large and muscular sprinter is starting off the line for a kilo. There is no perfect material that lasts forever.
As to a do-everything bike, I vote for cyclocross bikes as well. My husband loves his Ridley Crossbow, and he has no intention of riding 'cross, ever. It gets ridden with touring tires to do the bulk of his riding. The carbon road bike comes out only occasionally. I bought a steel touring bike 2 years ago, but now I'm thinking that it's a waste for someone who doesn't tour, much heavier and more sluggish than his Crossbow. I'm thinking of selling it to buy something like the Ridley, perhaps a Kona Major Jake.

[Blueberry]

If I were looking for the 1 bike, I would be looking hard at a Surly Straggler. It has different dropouts, that make fenders easier (they can be a pain on the rear of a regular cross check when a flat happens).

I have 2 cross bikes, and have never ridden (and never intend to ride) cross.

[Hi Ho Silver]

... may I ask which level(s) your back issue is at?

My PT has suggested that if I ever get back on a bike at all, I'll need to ditch the road bike. I've got issues at multiple levels, but the one that really gets nailed on the road bike is L3-4. I'm still skeptical that anything shy of a unicycle would let me ride in perfectly neutral spine regardless of terrain ... but I'd like to hear your experience.

I severely injured my back years ago (L5 and L4) badly enough that I ultimately had to have a spinal fusion. Although I still have numbness in my left side and occasional severe sciatica, I can ride road and MTB bikes without any problem. But this requires that I do two things - walk a few miles every day (apparently that builds a good balance of back and stomach muscles) and I have to adopt a different position on the saddle (my sit bones don't bear my weight, it mostly is supported by the pelvis, which is rotated). Hope you can find a way to ride again too.

[Trek420]

I just pulled the trigger on a 2013 Salsa Vaya. http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2014_vaya_2

We'll be picking it up Friday. I was thinking of culling the herd and donating the GT Outpost Trail, my much-loved utility, errand bike. It's just too dang heavy and slow. My LBS is transplanting her bits to the Salsa. I will keep the Mavic wheels to set up for winter riding because they're also disc compatible.

[pennykess]

One bike for everything, I would say it is difficult to get decide one bike for everything, it totally depends on the requirement and budget of the person and it varies from person to person. For an instance, I have got a fixed gear bike from http://www.criticalcycles.com/ which I use personallly to commute to work and for exercising purpose because it helps me keep myself physically fit.
My bro uses the same bike and thinks himself a hipster :D but I like his spirit, he tries and does some good skid trick and other tricks too. Also he uses it to go for a long ride with his friends twice a tear which is a good thing. The bike has a strong aluminium TIG welded frame and looks good, atleast to me :p