Can we talk about upgrading wheels?

[rubysoho]

I have read/heard numerous times that the biggest upgrade you can make on a bike is the wheelset. I love my Ruby but have been pining to upgrade the bike as a splurge. I made a promise with myself that IF I completed the 170 mile Tour de Cure and IF afterwards I still wanted to ride that then I could gift myself with a new set of wheels. I really don't think I need a better bike. But new wheels are tempting. And I did finish the entire 170 mile ride AND I still loooooove riding (as if that would ever change!).

What wheels would you buy as an upgrade? I don't want to put a limit on price because I would love to hear about what other people want. Realistically I am looking at the 500-1k range. But if a strong case was made for a set just above that pricepoint.... well.... maybe. ;)

A friend is suggesting the mavic ksyrium sl.

(PS-sorry if this has been discussed before. I did try, admittedly briefly, to search for old threads on the subject. Also, I disabled the autocorrect on my ipad keyboard so please forgive my typos!)

[nscrbug]

I absolutely LOVE my custom built HED Belgium C2 wheels laced to Chris King R45 hubs. They are bombproof...which I need given the crappy roads that I ride in my area.

[Owlie]

DBF would recommend the Mavics as well.
I actually asked a similar question at work today (I work in a large chain bike store), as I've been considering buying wheels for my current bike that would be an upgrade for my future bike as well. I asked my BF as well as two coworkers. I got three different answers.:rolleyes:

[Veronica]

I love my Dura Ace C50s.

Veronica

[indysteel]

I upgraded my Mavic Aksiums a few years back with a set of custom wheels. It's a pretty basic build: Velocity Aerohead rims with White Industries hubs. Sapim double butted spokes; 24 (I think) in the rear and 20 in the front. I love them, and my husband has a similar set. We both love them. I shied away from prebuilt wheels because many are overbuilt for someone my size. I also didn't want bladed spokes. I think you can often get more bang for your buck with handbuilts.

Ron Ruff at White Mountain Wheels built my husbands wheels. If I were in the market again, I'd call him or another reputable builder. Tell him what kind of riding I do on what kind of roads and let him recommend a build within my budget and weight.

[tzvia]

I had a similar set to what indysteel had made, Velocity Aerohead rims, White Industries hubs (love that old time chrome look although they do make black too) but I deviated in getting the Sapim cx-ray bladed spokes, a personal fave. Several pluses to such a wheelset.

1. Hand laced and if properly done, is almost always better than a mass produced wheelset.
2. You pick the parts, you choose how many spokes. You get what you want, and not what some marketing manager chose.
3. Stuff breaks. Exotic spokes and and rims may look really cool, but not so much when you have a broken spoke and the LBS does not have anything to fix it. Then you have to send the wheel off or the LBS orders parts, and they are always a lot more $$ than the trusty double butted or bladed Sapims or DT Swiss.

All that being said, I have always wanted a set of HED Ardenns. :o. All that aero stuff out there has a weight penalty and at my speeds the aero 'benefit' just won't be there but a nice set of climbing wheels...

[jdubble]

I absolutely LOVE my custom built HED Belgium C2 wheels laced to Chris King R45 hubs. They are bombproof...which I need given the crappy roads that I ride in my area.

I just got the same wheels and hubs in May as an anniversary gift, handbuilt by Jude at Sugar Wheel Works (http://www.sugarwheelworks.com/) and I love love love them. I was skeptical that new wheels would make a noticeable difference, but wow, do they ever!

I also was contemplating a bicycle upgrade, but I love my Torelli, even if it's 11 years old and heavy. I don't road race, and it's comfy and fits me perfectly. But hills were a drag. The new wheels have given my bike new zip and have really made climbing (slightly) more fun.

[Becky]

I built myself a set. Dura Ace hubs, Aerohead rims, DT Swiss double-butted spokes. They're fantastic. If I did it again, I'd look at Velocity's wider A23 rim.

[Hi Ho Silver]

Check out www.prowheelbuilder.com . They offer semi-custom wheel sets at good prices. I've spec'ed out (as in "dream on, Christmas is coming up!") a set of Velocity A23 rims, White Industries hubs, DT double-butted spokes - at an affordable price of ~$500.

[Eden]

Yeah customs aren't necessarily super expensive. I think it costs me 200-250 or so a wheel to have my commuter wheels rebuilt every couple of years (cause I ride them in all sorts of crappy weather and wear out the rims...).

If you want some super light, but comfy wheels (they may be a bit over your price point.... but search around for the best deal and it is entirely possible you could find them under $1,000) I love, love my Dura Ace C-24 carbon wheels. Light as a feather, but handle and feel like a dream - they really damp down chip seal vibration. I have the tubular version, as I use them for racing and thus have someone following me around that can give me a new wheel if I flat..... but there is a clincher version too.

[Wahine]

Hmmmm, I always feel a bit weird about posting this because it feels like advertising in the wrong place. Having said that, I agree with those above who recommend a custom wheel build. It really is superior and often can cost significantly less than an equivilant quality production wheel.

So here's the advertising bit, my BF, Tom, owns a mail order/boutique bike shop and custom wheels are a huge part of what he does. He has built thousands of wheels. He's built all of my wheels and none of them have failed. I had a spoke break once and the wheel stayed true enough for me to ride 30 miles home in spite of it. I'm not saying you should buy from Tom, but it really is worth it to buy from an experienced wheel builder.

Tom loves Mavic rims, especially open pros, for their durability and performance and he leans towards sapim spokes. What hubs you get is highly dependent on your budget, how important weight is etc. He often recommends White industries and Shimano dura ace. But what a good wheel builder will do is talk to you and help you decide what will work best for you depending on your goals. You shouldn't feel like someone it trying to sell you something without considering what your needs are.

I think that Tom (http://www.gvhbikes.com/wheels.html) is the best wheel builder on the planet, but then again I'm very biased. An added bonus is that he loves working with women and manages to make you feel comfortable when asking questions. It's part of why I fell in love with him.:)

[Owlie]

Eeeenteresting. :D

Sort of threadjacking: I don't need a really aerodynamic wheel. I am looking for lighter ones. Of course, anything would be an upgrade from my current wheels (the stock ones). I'm not regularly going fast enough for aerodynamic wheels to make a difference. I realize that I'll have to compromise performance and comfort. :)

[indysteel]

I built myself a set. Dura Ace hubs, Aerohead rims, DT Swiss double-butted spokes. They're fantastic. If I did it again, I'd look at Velocity's wider A23 rim.

That's impressive, Becky. Was it hard to do?

[indysteel]

I'm glad you weighed in, Wahine, to sing Tom's praises. Wahine's bias is well deserved as GVH has long enjoyed a great reputation.

I can honestly say that having wheels custom built for myself was a great pleasure. It's one of my favorite gifts to myself. It was both incredibly functional and indulgent. I highly recommend it.

[Veronica]

I'm also glad you weighed in Wahine. You're a long established presence here and what you say has merit. Other people post about their experiences with various shops and wheel builders, so why shouldn't you? You're up front that you may be a little biased and you should be biased. :D

Veronica

[ttaylor508]

I have a Ruby Expert and have been riding the original Ultegra Wheels that came with it. Last month I did a century ride and borrowed DH Mavic ES wheels (he hurt his back so wasn't riding). Lovvvvved them so much, I decided I had to have a pair for myself. I searched CL and found a guy who was selling his bike with Mavic SL wheels. I contacted him and asked if he would be willing to sell me the wheels and I would give him my Ultegras so he could still sell his bike. He agreed, so I go the wheels for $500. He said there was about a 1000 miles on wheels, but really other than his word I couldn't tell. At the finish line of the double century we did last weekend there was a Mavic booth. The guy took a look at the wheels and said that they had very few miles on them, so I feel like I got a great deal. I absolutely love the wheels, so thumbs up from me on the Mavic Ksyirum SL's!!!

[Wahine]

Muirenn, I have held that frame in my own little hands. It is beautiful. I knew exactly what you were refering to. :)

[indysteel]

Muirenn, I have held that frame in my own little hands. It is beautiful. I knew exactly what you were refering to. :)

I knew what Muirenn was referring to, too. I said I was glad Wahime weighed in because I was glad to see her give a shout out to Tom.

[Becky]

That's impressive, Becky. Was it hard to do?

Not really. For me, it requires a great deal of focus and patience. It's almost meditative, especially once I've got the wheel laced and in the stand.

This was my third or fourth wheelset, so I felt more comfortable attempting it with expensive hubs and using a lacing pattern (2x) that I hadn't tried before. I use Roger Musson's book (http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php) each time and go step by step. As long as you're careful about even spoke tensions and consistently checking round vs. true. vs. dish, it's pretty straightfoward.

Props to LPH for convincing me to try to build the first wheelset! I think the next set will be for my carbon roadie: black White Industries hubs, double-butted spokes, and black Aeroheads or A23s. I might even radially-lace the front wheel! Indy, how did Ron lace your 20/24 set?

[indysteel]

Actually Troy Ligero built my wheels. I don't even know if he's still building these days. Mine are laced 2x front and 3x driveside, 2x nondriveside rear.

[Becky]

Actually Troy Ligero built my wheels. I don't even know if he's still building these days. Mine are laced 2x front and 3x driveside, 2x nondriveside rear.

Oops, that's what I get for not reading more closely! :o

[indysteel]

Oops, that's what I get for not reading more closely! :o

No worries. I didn't mention who built my wheels in my original post because Troy's business went through some ups and down and some changes after he built my wheels. I could be wrong, I think he eventually started building wheels only with his own proprietary parts. He also got really overwhelmed with orders and was criticized repeatedly on some other forums. I never had a problem with him though....

[Seajay]

I don't need a really aerodynamic wheel. I am looking for lighter ones. Of course, anything would be an upgrade from my current wheels (the stock ones). I'm not regularly going fast enough for aerodynamic wheels to make a difference. I realize that I'll have to compromise performance and comfort.

I hear this all the time. I'm not sure what physics book people are using.
If it's the physics of cheaper is better, I can understand.
But I don't think you can say you want to upgrade performance without exploring an aero wheel.
Even if you do average 12mph. ( a dubious arbitrary # anyway..)
Given that almost all the work (70%) you're doing is getting through the wind and that the newest versions of top end aero wheels do not suffer from the same control issues of their older cousins. One shouldn't discount the option.

I run 25mm tires on Zipp Firecrest wheels. It's the fastest, most comfortable setup I've ever had.

[pll]

Seajay: if I may ask a question... I live in a very windy area (10-15mph winds are not unusual; surges to more than 20mph are relatively common) and I would not be the type to be swapping wheelsets depending on conditions. That has been my rationale to stay away from aero wheels. Am I off base?

[geaux]

Thanks for posting this! I'm still getting the knack of truing wheels, but you've encouraged me to make the leap once I feel like I've really got it.


Not really. For me, it requires a great deal of focus and patience. It's almost meditative, especially once I've got the wheel laced and in the stand.

This was my third or fourth wheelset, so I felt more comfortable attempting it with expensive hubs and using a lacing pattern (2x) that I hadn't tried before. I use Roger Musson's book (http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php) each time and go step by step. As long as you're careful about even spoke tensions and consistently checking round vs. true. vs. dish, it's pretty straightfoward.

Props to LPH for convincing me to try to build the first wheelset! I think the next set will be for my carbon roadie: black White Industries hubs, double-butted spokes, and black Aeroheads or A23s. I might even radially-lace the front wheel! Indy, how did Ron lace your 20/24 set?

[Becky]

Thanks for posting this! I'm still getting the knack of truing wheels, but you've encouraged me to make the leap once I feel like I've really got it.

Geaux, I highly recommend Roger's book even for wheel truing. I learned some things from it that have made my truing more efficient and effective, and gave me the confidence to tackle my first build.

You can do this! :D

[Wahine]

Thanks for posting this! I'm still getting the knack of truing wheels, but you've encouraged me to make the leap once I feel like I've really got it.

When Tom is building wheels, he is extremely focused and methodical. In fact he often can't have a conversation with me during parts of the truing process because talking would be too distracting. And he builds at least 2 wheelsets a week. He also says that anyone that has patience and attention to detail can build a wheelset. It just takes practice and focus. He thinks that women are actually better at it than most men because in general he thinks that women pay more attention to details and are more methodical.

[Owlie]

I don't need a really aerodynamic wheel. I am looking for lighter ones. Of course, anything would be an upgrade from my current wheels (the stock ones). I'm not regularly going fast enough for aerodynamic wheels to make a difference. I realize that I'll have to compromise performance and comfort.

I hear this all the time. I'm not sure what physics book people are using.
If it's the physics of cheaper is better, I can understand.
But I don't think you can say you want to upgrade performance without exploring an aero wheel.
Even if you do average 12mph. ( a dubious arbitrary # anyway..)
Given that almost all the work (70%) you're doing is getting through the wind and that the newest versions of top end aero wheels do not suffer from the same control issues of their older cousins. One shouldn't discount the option.

I run 25mm tires on Zipp Firecrest wheels. It's the fastest, most comfortable setup I've ever had.

DBF says that he never felt any benefit from aero wheels over a simply lighter wheel until he hit about 18mph+. Given that there are a whole bunch of factors there, well...

[Wahine]

I tend to agree that aero wheels don't seem to make much of a difference until you're hitting 17 or more mph. I don't use them here at all because they are a pain in the arse in a wind unless it's perfectly head on. Otherwise the gusts throw you around like you wouldn't believe. Not a good feeling, especially when descending.:eek::eek:

[Jiffer]

I have Easton EA90 SLX wheels. Hubby picked them out as a present for a birthday or Christmas or something I think. He chose them for their low weight and good for climbing, something I need all the help I can get with.

Here's a description: Developed as the ultimate low weight wheel for Easton's sponsored athletes, the Easton EC90 SLX is a sub-1200 gram carbon wheelset prized for amazing climbing legs and smooth, dependable braking surface. Feathery, 24-mm deep Easton carbon rims enhance acceleration and offer precision braking and outstanding durability. R4 SL hubs feature alloy axles, axle caps and cassette bodies to shave 36-grams of rotating weight and have ceramic bearings for a smooth ride. Sapim double-butted spokes and alloy nipples cut weight without sacrificing durability. Entirely hand-built and acoustically tuned in Easton's own factory.

My husband, who is an amazing climber, but wanted more of an edge on the flat chose a different set of Eastons. Don't know the model, but could find out.

Figure out if there's something specific you want to get out of a wheel set and try to find one to accommodate. For me it was climbing, for hubby fast on the flat. Who knew there was so much to think about when choosing a wheel?

Whatever you do, you may be able to find a deal on Ebay or something. There are amazing deals to be had on bike components if you look and are maybe a bit patient.

[Seajay]

Seajay: if I may ask a question... I live in a very windy area (10-15mph winds are not unusual; surges to more than 20mph are relatively common) and I would not be the type to be swapping wheelsets depending on conditions. That has been my rationale to stay away from aero wheels. Am I off base?

Hi PLL. Well, everyone's experience is different. Also a lot of folks' experience is on older rim shapes
The older style aero rims with the "pointy" trailing edge did tend to get blown around quite a bit. This is why you used to see so many folks running a smaller rim section in front.
However, the newer aero shapes with the "fat" trailing edge really are better in the wind. I'm no aerodynamics expert but the explanation given by Zipp is that the center of effort is moved behind the hub so the wheel sort of "self corrects" They explain that the pointy trailing edge rims failed to account for the fact that the trailing edge in the front becomes the LEADING edge at the back of the wheel.

Sunday our tri had a fairly long section with the 10-15 mph gusting wind right off the lake at a 90 degree angle. My friend had REGULAR non aero wheels and felt quite "out of control" I had my Zipp 404 Firecrest with about a 60 mm deep section. Did I feel the wind a bit...yes. But no more than any other wheel and I certainly didn't ever feel like I had to adjust my riding to compensate.

If I was a bit lighter and rode in a "gusty" windy area, I'd likely take the conservative approach and get the Firecrest 303 which is a bit smaller in section. Darn near as aero.

They're not cheap. I'll always recommend renting a set to see if they are for you. As you can tell, I'm firmly a believer.

[pll]

Thank you Seajay! I looked at the bike shop nearest to me and they have both 303 and 404 wheelsets available for rental. Hmm. It just might be in the cards for this weekend.

[Seajay]

Thank you Seajay! I looked at the bike shop nearest to me and they have both 303 and 404 wheelsets available for rental. Hmm. It just might be in the cards for this weekend.

Sounds like a great opportunity. I'm sure we'd all benefit from hearing about your experience renting them.

[barrelgal]

Great thread and advice! Right when I needed it! I too am thinking of "rewarding" myself with new wheels but have no clue where to start. I live in a really large city with a pretty active Craigslist for bike stuff and was thinking of going that way looking for new wheels but don't even really know where to start or what to look for.

Now you've made me start thinking of getting some custom built so I have even more options to consider!

[roguedog]

Hey you're in tx and could use joe young. He's supposed to be one of the best builders around.

http://www.youngwheels.com/

Not that distance matters in our day n age. Joe's built wheels for folks far n wide.