Taking up running?

[Catrin]

I have to be nuts for even considering this, I have to be. I am trying to decide just how crazy an idea it is...

This metabolic/functional training I've taken up includes running. Jogging, sprinting, running...and my bad knee seems to be ok with that. I can sprint pretty fast and indeed I find it difficult to run slowly. I am starting to think that perhaps this would be a good thing for me to take up for the winter months.

Has anyone here started running in their 50's when they already had knees with a bit of arthritis? I've not made up my mind either way, and perhaps it would be best just to stick with the laps we run in class, I am just wondering what others experience has been. I don't want to blow my knees out, but it would also be good to have a cardio alternative for the winter and I strongly dislike machines... I do put my bike on the trainer but that just isn't the same as riding outside.

[Crankin]

My last foray into running was the most successful. I started the C25K program in March and I kept running until June. While I don't have knee issues, I have had other things that come up when I've run in the past.
That said, I find that running is just hard. My speed improved this time, but once I got into the part of the program where there were no walking breaks, I started losing my enthusiasm; my speed started slowing and I was always praying for the run to be over. It took me 1- 2 days to recover from running and this affected my cycling. My legs just felt dead. I wish this didn't happen, but since I am not going to let anything interfere with riding, I stopped. I just didn't have time to run, ride, and 2 boot camp classes a week, and be able to get the number of cycling miles i want. I still get some running/sprint in at boot camp and I can keep up with the real runners/tri-athletes here.
I know I made the right choice, because when I am on my bike and see runners, I'm not jealous. But, when I used to see riders when I was running, I always thought "I'd rather be on my bike."

[Catrin]

Good points Crankin...I think the best thing for me to do right now is to not try to add anything new. I certainly don't feel like I am exercising too little! This winter, when my outside riding starts ramping down, then I will consider doing more running at the gym and see what happens. I don't see my choosing running over riding outside, ever, so this is probably the best approach.

It really helps me to articulate this and get a bit of feedback, thank you!

[Blueberry]

Given the number of overuse issues/orthopedic issues you've run into (no pun intended) with cycling and your other activities, I think I'd check with your doc on this one. If you decide to try, definitely make sure you're strengthening all the muscles/tendons that support the knee - I bet your PT could put together a program for you if you're not already hitting all the key areas.

[indysteel]

I think this is a topic to discuss with your osteopath or whichever doctor you have that's most familiar with the state of your knees. Remember, too, that you have had other overuse issues--your hamstring and ITBs that might be irritated by running. I hadn't been running very long or all that much when I developed hamstring issues--issues that continue to plague me roughly 8 months later.

I do like the Couch to 5k approach and I don't see anything wrong with stopping short of the final goal of the program if your body (or mind) responds better to shorter intervals. Like Crankin, I find that I have to give my legs a bit of extra rest when I run regularly. If you experience the same thing, I have to wonder whether it will cut into the other workouts you seem to be enjoying at your gym (Bosu and your group ex) and likely getting a lot out of. In terms of addressing your muscle imbalances, I'm not sure running offers much--but that's something I would encourage you to talk to your trainer about.

[Catrin]

Good comments both Blueberry and Indysteel. Part of the focus of my new group training exercise is to take care of those muscle imbalances I have - and I've enough trouble with my hamstring and IT band on the bike, let alone the issue with my knee... It is kind of cool that I can keep up with the "real runners" at the gym for short runs and sprints, but I think it should probably just stay as part of my group exercise.

I will reevaluate this winter and discuss it further with my osteopath and trainer at that time if I still want to pursue this.

[OakLeaf]

+1 on getting professional advice. Knee health is so closely tied to foot and ankle strength and flexibility, and with your history of ankle surgery, you just may not be able to come up with a foot strike that protects your knees.

Still, finding the right professional isn't always easy. So many doctors will categorically advise people not to run - against all the evidence of its general benefits for orthopedic health. If you can find a PT or osteopath who's also a Chi Running instructor or at least practitioner, that would be my first choice. While I'm a devout follower of Chi Running, I'm also well aware that they tend to overlook structural issues and preach that imbalances can be adequately addressed with running form only.

[GLC1968]

Still, finding the right professional isn't always easy. So many doctors will categorically advise people not to run - against all the evidence of its general benefits for orthopedic health. If you can find a PT or osteopath who's also a Chi Running instructor or at least practitioner, that would be my first choice. While I'm a devout follower of Chi Running, I'm also well aware that they tend to overlook structural issues and preach that imbalances can be adequately addressed with running form only.

This. I have found that running smartly (is that a word??) has actually helped with a lot of my own limitations that cycling did not help. I've built up foot strength, ankle strength, hip strength and core strength that I didn't necessarily get when cycling. It really varies by practitioner though, and of course, by individual as well. I would do a good amount of research ahead of time (including Chi Running) and then listen very carefully to your body if you decide to give it a try.

Personally, I LOVE running in the winter when biking is fairly miserable around here (it's always wet and cold). I'm actually thankful that my injury happened in the spring so that I don't have to miss out on an entire winter of not running! (I know that's twisted...).

[Dogmama]

This. I have found that running smartly (is that a word??) has actually helped with a lot of my own limitations that cycling did not help. I've built up foot strength, ankle strength, hip strength and core strength that I didn't necessarily get when cycling. It really varies by practitioner though, and of course, by individual as well. I would do a good amount of research ahead of time (including Chi Running) and then listen very carefully to your body if you decide to give it a try.


+1
I am doing the C25K program in my Vibrams using Chi running techniques. I have bad lower back issues and a pounding heel strike in regular shoes makes my leg go numb & my back go into spasms. In my Vibrams, I cannot do a heel strike so I MUST run more smartly (yeah, it's a word - we've used it twice so that nails it!).

I admit, when I first looked at C25K I thought it was numbingly simple but I know the importance of building a good base, so I figured I'd haul the dog along with me & he can do the program too. So far, we're at week three, no back issues, no knee problems & I'm really liking it. I thought I'd be bored stiff.

I imagine that any minimalist shoe would be OK instead of Vibrams. Some people don't like things between their toes.

[zoom-zoom]

You've had some good advice, but I caution you to NOT incorporate sprinting/speed work unless you have been consistently running 30 miles or so per week for maybe a half year. This is pretty standard advice. Without a really solid base you risk injury. More miles at easy pace = speed FAR more than fewer ones with speed work.

[Catrin]

You've had some good advice, but I caution you to NOT incorporate sprinting/speed work unless you have been consistently running 30 miles or so per week for maybe a half year. This is pretty standard advice. Without a really solid base you risk injury. More miles at easy pace = speed FAR more than fewer ones with speed work.

Thanks Zoom, I wasn't thinking. It felt better to run faster than slower so I did...that makes a lot of sense though. My body isn't used to running and I DO tend to, ahem, overdo things :o :rolleyes:

[zoom-zoom]

My BFF used to subscribe to the fewer miles fast method. She was forever injured...back, groin, knees, feet. She had stress fractures in her lower legs and even ran with a tens unit on her back for a while.

[Veronica]

30 miles a week before doing speed work? :eek:

I never run 30 miles a week. I aim for 32 miles a month and I do an interval run every week. I only run 3 days a week. I've been seeing a lot of studies lately that indicate you don't need that much mileage to be an effective runner. Of course if you enjoy that much mileage, keep at it. :D

I will say that I did not start doing intervals until I had been running for a few years.

Veronica

[Catrin]

My sister just started to try and run...she figured her asthma would help keep her from overdoing things but wound up with a stress fracture in her leg. This was her first attempt to start exercising since her youth...which reminded me of the Achilles tendon injury I got within a month of getting off the couch 3 years ago:eek: I suspect both of us were injured for the same reason.

Right now I am focusing on riding, I've a charity ride to prepare for in September and I WOULD like to be more proficient at mountain biking before the snow flies. I will think about running then and seek professional advice before taking on something new. For now running will have to be confined to my group training class...we don't normally run more than one 200 meter lap at a time - though we may do that multiple times during the hour class (not always).

[indysteel]

Thanks Zoom, I wasn't thinking. It felt better to run faster than slower so I did...that makes a lot of sense though. My body isn't used to running and I DO tend to, ahem, overdo things :o :rolleyes:

This is a hard mentality to beat. When I ran in high school, I consistently trained at a sub-seven minute pace and competed in the 800 meters at around 2:25 to 2:30. Not great, but for a freshman, not bad. After a cross country season the following year, I had a series of injuries and finally quit. I tried picking running up repeatedly from there but I always gravitated to my old pace, a pace I simply could not maintain on any level. So I would grow frustrated and quit. It wasn't until I finally forced myself to slow down and follow a couch to 5k program, that I finally got over the hump. I still kind of suck, partly because my heart's not totally in it, but I can at least say that I run.

[OakLeaf]

When I was really pounding it was hard for me to run slow, too. For me, learning to run slowly was all about form. YMMV.

[Catrin]

When I was really pounding it was hard for me to run slow, too. For me, learning to run slowly was all about form. YMMV.

Oh I am sure I probably am pounding when I run, it just feels so good to be able to stretch my legs out when I run. To run slower I have to shorten my stride and that doesn't feel so good. I am bound and determined, however, to avoid the obvious over-use injuries this season (crossing all fingers and toes). I am glad that I brought this topic up. Part of the group training class is an assigned "workout of the week" that we do on our own, and this week a part of that is a 6 minute run. I will focus on running slower when I do that portion of the workout.

[zoom-zoom]

Forcing a long stride is also known as over-striding. It's recipe for all sorts of woes, including strained hip flexors (ask me how I know this :o ). Shorter stride and quicker turnover is more efficient and gentler.

[Anyabeth]

I am an impossibly slow runner but have run a couple of half marathons with no injuries and I always tell my friends who are getting started to just start at a pace that would almost feel embarassing if some one saw you. Especially if it has been a long time since you ran (for me it had been twenty years). You can always run faster after you have a base. But be ridiculously slow for a while and see if that doesn't help.

Of course this means that I have never run more than 30 miles a week because that would take me ages.

[zoom-zoom]

Of course this means that I have never run more than 30 miles a week because that would take me ages.

My peak mileage in a single week was 55, IIRC. I think it took me about 10.5 hours. A few fast guys I know cover 80-90 miles in that time.

[indysteel]

When I was really pounding it was hard for me to run slow, too. For me, learning to run slowly was all about form. YMMV.

Oak, I could probably answer this via the search function, but did you take a Chi Running workshop or learn from the book and/or video?

[Catrin]

Forcing a long stride is also known as over-striding. It's recipe for all sorts of woes, including strained hip flexors (ask me how I know this :o ). Shorter stride and quicker turnover is more efficient and gentler.

:eek: :eek: Oh my, I had no idea! I was doing this because it felt so good....

[OakLeaf]

Oak, I could probably answer this via the search function, but did you take a Chi Running workshop or learn from the book and/or video?

I took workshops. But that's my learning style. It's really hard for me to learn physical skills from books - videos are somewhat easier for me, but I learn physical skills best in a hands-on, interactive setting. I know plenty of people who've done very well with the book and/or DVD.



And, +1 on the dangers of overstriding. One easy check is, WITHOUT bending at the waist, you shouldn't be able to see your toes while you're running. You can open up your stride behind you as much as your flexibility and core strength will allow, but you don't want your feet to land ahead of your center of gravity.

[indysteel]

That's my learning style, too, Oak. I looked at the schedule yesterday and if memory serves, most if the seminars anywhere near Indy were late summer or early fall, and I don't think I can make it work with our schedule. Maybe I can find something later in the year. I'm only a part time runner, but I think I could benefit from a class. I so want to enjoy running more than I do, even if never end up running long distances.

[GLC1968]

That's my learning style, too, Oak. I looked at the schedule yesterday and if memory serves, most if the seminars anywhere near Indy were late summer or early fall, and I don't think I can make it work with our schedule. Maybe I can find something later in the year. I'm only a part time runner, but I think I could benefit from a class. I so want to enjoy running more than I do, even if never end up running long distances.

A class will definitely help. I took my husband to one and he actually *likes* running now (assuming it's with me...he hates to run alone). Two of my friends here also took the same class a few weeks later and they both got a ton out of it. And none of these people are 'serious' runners...just people who wanted to enjoy it more and injury free. :)

[Catrin]

The hip flexor appears to be all better now :) I did a little running at the gym the other day and all was fine. I focused on not stretching out my stride and running at a more moderate, even pace. Only ran 300 meters at a time, walked 100 meters, ran 100 meters, then did other things before running again. I did this twice.

Riding is more important right now than running, but it was good to see that I was able to do it :cool: