Considering moving within US, What city/area would you suggest? [Archive]

Lenusik

01-05-2006, 10:56 AM

To make a short story long:

I am married and living in Phoenix, AZ and I enjoy it here. I was born and raised Ukraine and my husband is originally from Wisconsin, just north of Madison.

I've only really gotten into road riding in the last year and absolutely love it. And I am doing quite well too. My husband has been riding for 3 yearsand he is a great rider. I also play tennis and my husband joins me as well sometimes.

Here's the deal. We're both looking for new jobs as the changes with our current employers have us looking elsewhere. We've not yet been considering anywhere other than Phoenix until yesterdays ride. We realized 10 miles into my normal weekday 22 miler that the air quality here REALLY SUCKS! I know it, and it motivates me to NOT ride. As the wheels and the thoughts roll, I wonder then, why I live here if it's 110 degrees in the summer and you have to get up at 5 am to ride, and the air quality in the winter is terrible. What's the point? This is when I realized that our job searches should include more of the US.

We live in Chandler and our normal ride is on Pecos. In order to get out of the pollution is not possible during weekday rides. I can do that for weekend rides, but that's not often enough.

Some more about us. We're both IT project managers, so ideal city size would be large enough to host IT companies seeking employees.

I also must point out that I'm not fond of Wisconsin winters, but considering the air quality in AZ, I'm not against moving back to my husband's home state. There is something about endless rolling country roads through farm country. Clean air, greenery and very little traffic, that really are a bikers dream.

I don't want to limit our future job search to just WI, so I am looking for your suggestions.

Btw, we have already crossed off the following cities/areas (due to similiar pollution/population problems):
Los Angeles
New York
Chicago
Houston
Denver

The key qualities we are looking for are:
1. Jobs - employers in area
2. Weather - Seattle's rain probably keep that from being on the good list, and Wyoming wind as well.
3. Bikable - roads available. Where ever we live our house MUST be situated such that we can ride out of garage door and get in a decent 20 mile ride. I have managed to manufacture that in Phoenix, as I have only two heavy trafficed miles to Pecos Road.
4. Good for raising kids. We're planning on kids in the next few years.
5. Air quality. IT's the reason I started this line of thought.
6. Overall livable, low crime rate, ample entertainment
7. Decent airport within 1 hour. I travel enough that this is a consideration. Consider however that I think Madison's airport is serviceable.
8. Outdoor and indoor (in case it is a cold area) tennis courts.

Other thoughts. I love rolling hills, trees and greenery and lakes. If our new community was near/in all of that. I think I would be in heaven.
Oh housing costs! Yeah, I suppose that helps a LOT! We're not looking to spend more than $300,000 on our next home. In fact, the closer to $200,000 it is, the happier I would be. (More money for the bike, you understand.)

Anyway, so the country is ours to discover, suggest an area we should consider moving to and why. :)

Bike Goddess

01-05-2006, 11:21 AM

Check out the SF Bay Area. I live in a small town called Benicia. I roll out of my garage and in 10 mins am in the country. Rolling hills, good climbs, excellent training. Check out the Benicia Bicycle Club website for pictures.
Also, check out Benicia for schools. We have some of the best in Northern California.

Other spots in the Bay Area- San Mateo County, Santa Clara County, Contra Costa County. Marin County is a great place as well. All of the schools up here are great and you can't beat the weather! We all ride year round, there are many great bicycle clubs, and if you want to get into competitive riding that's here as well.

Quite a few of the women who are from California on this site meet and ride together from time to time which just adds to the fun!

Good luck on your quest.

Eden

01-05-2006, 11:40 AM

We may have rain here in Seattle, but if you can put up with a little wet we have nice bikeable weather all year round (in fact *crossed fingers* its been very dry on the weekends this winter). It usually doesn't get very cold here in the winter - and if it does get cold it is clear so no percipitation! It also does not usually get excessively hot or humid here in the summer. Our biggest downside is being so far north that our days in the winter are very very short - like sun up at close to 8am and dark at around 4:30 at the worst, of course that means light until about 10 pm in the summer though. The other bummer, the cost of living is quite high here - housing especially.

Otherwise it's great. Huge cycling community. Miles of bike trails if you can put up with the crowding and fairly sane drivers if you can't (at least compared to some of the stories I hear from other places). Traffic can be bad, but avoidable if you plan your living, working and commuting well. I rarely drive anywhere these days so its not my worry. Very green, very lush, little rain in the summer (shhh its a secret!). Relatively easy access to incredibly beautiful places like Mt. Rainier and Olympic National Park. Full compliment of cultural activites - oh and really great sushi.
I moved here from the east coast and I love it. I grew up in Pittsburgh and though I think its a really great city and undeserving of some of the bad reputation it retains from the old days of the steel mills, I sure don't miss the hot and humid summers and cold winters.

bcipam

01-05-2006, 11:47 AM

Well if you can afford it (and that's a big if) there is nothing like the year around riding and beautiful roads in Orange County, CA or even better San Diego, CA.

CorsairMac

01-05-2006, 12:02 PM

If I may be so bold: New Mexico. Las Cruces might be closer to what you're used to in Chandler without the pollution. Albuquerque tends to be - ummm - cooler in the winter than Phx but I bike commute all year. There is a bike path here on the Rio Grande that is 33 miles long in and of itself. I can ride from my house to the path, ride the path and ride back home and get in a 50 mile ride without ever leaving the city or having to deal with traffic cept where the bike trail crosses it. I'm a Chandler transplant and while I would LOVE to get back there, Albuquerque is a wonderful second choice. Not sure what jobs you are looking for so not sure if the market will support you - but I would suggest my fine and beautiful city/state!!

Plus that way I've got Another person to ride with And someone else who can help me razz the East Coast girls during the winter!!

cindysue

01-05-2006, 12:21 PM

We're not looking to spend more than $300,000 on our next home. In fact, the closer to $200,000 it is, the happier I would be. (More money for the bike, you understand.):)
up to this point, i was thinking Bay Area, but you won't find much under 500K..... unless you want to live in a 1970's 1br condo....

heck even the lovely Benicia is out of touch for many folks.........

good luck!

snapdragen

01-05-2006, 12:26 PM

Grog

01-05-2006, 12:28 PM

While we're considering Seattle: why not take a step up North and try Vancouver? It fits pretty much all the criteria but being in the United States, and it would be easy for the two of you to get work permits, being in the field you are.

As for the wet weather, I think we're just a slight bit better than Seattle (but I'm not sure), and people do ride year long, we just have fenders and, for a few of us, winter bikes. (I don't have a winter bike for now.)

Just a thought...

cindysue

01-05-2006, 12:31 PM

I don't know what the jobs are like, but I know a couple people (cyclists) in Boulder, CO that just love it.

ohhhhhh, Boulder is way cool! I visited there once when I went hiking up in the Rocky Mtn. Nat'l Forest.

some say it's a little snooty, some say it's a little granola, I say it is absolutely beautiful and a great location for outdoor enthusiasts.....

cindysue

01-05-2006, 12:34 PM

why not take a step up North and try Vancouver?

I've heard great things about Vancouver also. Never been there myself but it is on my list.

Hey Grog, how far are you from Fernie? I will be skiing up there from Feb 8-12....

doc

01-05-2006, 12:48 PM

bikerHen

01-05-2006, 12:49 PM

OK, since it was mentioned, I'll put in my two cents for Spokane, WA and Coeur d'Alene, ID which is just across the state line. Housing is still affordable, great place for outdoor anything, lots of good road riding and mountain biking and we have an airport. We moved here 18 years ago to get out of So. Cal. and we never looked back. It has been a great place to raise a family. Don't know much about the job market. I would say good if your in the medical field and we are getting a few more high tech industries in the area plus there are a number of universities in the area. We do get winter, but every year there seem to be less snow and more wet. Today is just beautiful! But of course I'm at work. :( Daughter and I are planning a road ride tomorrow if the weather holds :D All in all I'd say check us out. And yes, I could use another road rider to play with too! :D BikerHen

cindysue

01-05-2006, 12:52 PM

A friend of mine moved to Boise Idaho for similar reasons. She and her husband and kids are always fishing, hiking, whitewater rafting and so on. I don't know about biking only because she isn't a cyclist. But I know she LOVES living there. She moved from a big eastern city to be there (philly).

andrew wants to buy a second home there. I'm curious what others think of Boise. Sounds like a lot of great outdoor activities, but I'm wondering what the city is like? Restaurants, entertainment? a good sushi place? organic produce? marinated tofu? falafel and hummus?

profàvélo

01-05-2006, 01:11 PM

The key qualities we are looking for are:
1. Jobs - employers in area
2. Weather - Seattle's rain probably keep that from being on the good list, and Wyoming wind as well.
3. Bikable - roads available. Where ever we live our house MUST be situated such that we can ride out of garage door and get in a decent 20 mile ride. I have managed to manufacture that in Phoenix, as I have only two heavy trafficed miles to Pecos Road.
4. Good for raising kids. We're planning on kids in the next few years.
5. Air quality. IT's the reason I started this line of thought.
6. Overall livable, low crime rate, ample entertainment
7. Decent airport within 1 hour. I travel enough that this is a consideration. Consider however that I think Madison's airport is serviceable.
8. Outdoor and indoor (in case it is a cold area) tennis courts.

Other thoughts. I love rolling hills, trees and greenery and lakes. If our new community was near/in all of that. I think I would be in heaven.
Oh housing costs! Yeah, I suppose that helps a LOT! We're not looking to spend more than $300,000 on our next home. In fact, the closer to $200,000 it is, the happier I would be. (More money for the bike, you understand.)

Anyway, so the country is ours to discover, suggest an area we should consider moving to and why. :)

Look into Greenville, SC. Reasons:
1. Michelin headquarters and BMW plant are here; I think the employment front is pretty good.
2. Weather: cycling year-round, winter not too harsh, but definitely four seasons. I think people play tennis year-round, as well, and there are both indoor and outdoor courts.
3. I ride out of my driveway (north side of town) for rides of any length (20 to 65, generally). You can choose rolling, hillly, or you can find some big climbs (e.g. a six-mile climb up Caesar's Head). Not really any flat riding. George Hincapie (and others) rides from downtown out to those same routes, so that is possible, too. I can be really out in the country in under 15 miles. (I have to say, it's pretty cool to run into George out on the road. He's quite friendly.)
4. There are good public schools, but some are better than others. Verify before buying a house. Otherwise seems kid-friendly to me--there's a children's museum and theatre company--but I don't have children yet, either.
5. I'll have to check on the air quality, but my unofficial evaluation of it is "good". We don't generally talk about staying inside due to bad air.
6. High quality of life. Interesting and fun downtown that has been revived over the last 15 years. Peace Center for the Performing Arts brings in national and international performers. Atlanta is not too far away if you need a big-city fix (2 1/2 hours down I-85). Seems to have low crime rate.
7. Nice, smallish airport, Greenville-Spartanburg. Much nicer to fly in and out of than Atlanta, but often more expensive to do so.

Other: G'ville is at the foot of the mountains, close to Asheville, NC (1 1/2 hour) and the Blue Ridge Parkway. Only about 4 hours from Charleston, SC, which is beautiful, and the beaches there. Large, active cycling community that is growing. Housing is reasonable, I believe. Our brick 3 BR/3 BA ranch in an older neighborhood (the house was built around 1970) with lots of trees was around $150,000 three years ago, but I wouldn't stay in this neighborhood if we had children older than elementary-school age. There are some nice lakes close by. The only downside, for me, is the conservative nature of most residents. I work at a university with other like-minded (read: liberal) people, so I can tolerate it.

I just talked myself into staying here for quite a while! Based on your requirements, I think you should check it out. In fact, you could sign up for the Assault on Marion (http://www.freewheelers.info/assault.html) in May, see what the riding is like.

Crankin

01-05-2006, 01:32 PM

I laughed when I read your thread. I also left the valley for similiar reasons. Twenty years ago I was using a nebulizer every four hours for my asthma and my then preshchoolers couldn't play outside for most of the year. We moved back to the Boston area, where i grew up and I never regret it. I don't see how you can ride there! I know the Boston area is too expensive for what you want to spend on housing, but there are places where you can enjoy being outside, have four seasons, and you can ride right from your door. Don't rule out places that have winter. I never did any sports as a kid, and now i cross country ski and snowshoe pretty much right out of my door (or within a 20 minute drive). Cold and snow are what you make of it, and part of dealing with it is getting outside in it.
Good luck!

massbikebabe

01-05-2006, 01:59 PM

I'm with Robyn...

Even though I bi^c# about the snow, I love New England. I love the seasons and the nightlife and the fact I can be in the great state of Maine in under one hour:D

If I had to leave, I would head to New Mexico and live with Corsair. The sceanery (?sp), the weather, and the taco's would suit me just fine!!

karen
I don't like Coors Beer either

tatormc

01-05-2006, 02:09 PM

I'm glad you've marked Houston off your list. I'm 25 and lived there all my life until Febuary of 2005. My hubby and I moved to Oklahoma City as he is from here and all his family is still here. Most of the key qualities you mention are the same that we had. I really love it here. We moved to a town right outside OKC called Mustang. I can ride from the house on mostly quiet country roads. OKC is big enough to have all the things I like but not huge like Houston was. Aiport is 20 minutes away. Cost of living is cheap. Well there's my plug for my city....

SadieKate

01-05-2006, 02:17 PM

http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/index.html#search

CNN and Money Magazine did a cool project on places to live. Lots of data here.

Just a brief review of Median Home Prices:

Benicia - $433,395
Boulder - $366,051
San Diego - $480,801
Boise - $162,804
Las Cruces - $144,946
Spokane - $118,287

This isn't to say that outlying communities don't have better prices.

Trekhawk

01-05-2006, 02:52 PM

Susan Otcenas

01-05-2006, 02:54 PM

The key qualities we are looking for are:
1. Jobs - employers in area
2. Weather - Seattle's rain probably keep that from being on the good list, and Wyoming wind as well.
3. Bikable - roads available. Where ever we live our house MUST be situated such that we can ride out of garage door and get in a decent 20 mile ride. I have managed to manufacture that in Phoenix, as I have only two heavy trafficed miles to Pecos Road.
4. Good for raising kids. We're planning on kids in the next few years.
5. Air quality. IT's the reason I started this line of thought.
6. Overall livable, low crime rate, ample entertainment
7. Decent airport within 1 hour. I travel enough that this is a consideration. Consider however that I think Madison's airport is serviceable.
8. Outdoor and indoor (in case it is a cold area) tennis courts.

Other thoughts. I love rolling hills, trees and greenery and lakes. If our new community was near/in all of that. I think I would be in heaven.
Oh housing costs! Yeah, I suppose that helps a LOT! We're not looking to spend more than $300,000 on our next home. In fact, the closer to $200,000 it is, the happier I would be. (More money for the bike, you understand.)

PORTLAND!

1) Yup, lots of high tech here. Intel, Xerox, HP. Nike World Headquarters, Tektronix, on & on. (Should I mention TE World Headquaters too? :) )
2) Yeah, it rains in the winter. But the rain is what makes it so GREEN! And we almost never have snow (insulating cloud layer, ya know) so we ride all year long. Summers? The best I've ever experienced. Months of warm, low humidity sunshine with almost zero rain. Temps in the 70s and 80s mostly. Can't remember the last time I got bitten by a mosquito. Cool evenings. Many homes have no A/C (like mine) and only miss it maybe 1 week per year.
3) Yeah, baby. Portland is a GOLD level city rated by the League of American Bicyclists. We have some of the highest rates of bike commuting in the country. Traffic speeds in town are very low (lights are designed to keep down town traffic moving at 12-15 mph, so bikes can take the lane and keep up) and bike lanes are everywhere. The wheelman and several bike shops in town do regular lunch time rides. The weekends, especially in warm weather are packed with organized rides, and if you want to race? I think we had more than 300 days of racing on the calendar statewide in 2005, centered on Portland. Portland has an urban growth boundary, so there's much less sprawl that in many communities. You can tell where it is, because suddenly development STOPS and you're out among the farms. The terrain is very varied and on weekends you see cyclists EVERYWHERE.
4) I'm childless myself, but the schools are OK. Funding tends to ebb and flow more dramatically here than in other states because we don't have a sales tax. Our income & property taxes fund everything. Without the stability of sales taxes, state revenues fluctuate more. There are some good private schools here too.
5) No problems here. On very rare occasions, we get a "air stagnation" alert when the weather stalls, but rarely. A month or so ago, we made the national news because our air quality was on par with Kyoto Protocal standards.
6) Yup, we've got that too. Portland has an amazing restaurant scene, a surprisingly good music scene - oodles of clubs with live music in every genre imaginable - and a low crime rate. Yeah, we have our issues like every city, but I've never felt unsafe here. I saw on the news last night that we had 26 shooting deaths last year, 3 of which were by the police. I'm a NY native, so this sounds really low to me. :)
7) PDX. The easiest airport to navigate I've ever been in. Then again, anything is better than Newark...
8) Don't play myself, but I've seen courts around.

I've lived here 8 1/2 years and I don't think I'd live anywhere else. Yeah, sometimes the rain gets ya down, but that's why you take vacations to warm & sunny places. I'll never go back to the East Coast.

Susan

SadieKate

01-05-2006, 03:07 PM

Just rediscovered some long lost old friends who moved to Camas, WA across the river from Portland. Been there a year or so and they absolutely love it. Big cyclists. Couple of kids. Hubby still races and is now head of the Nautilus Institute.

SK

Amazing who you can dig up when you actually send out holiday cards.:rolleyes:

Susan Otcenas

01-05-2006, 03:16 PM

We do a GREAT ride that starts out on the East Side of Portland, crosses the Columbia River, heads west on the Washington side though Camas, crosses back over the Columbia in Cascade Locks, and heads back to Portland. 80-ish miles, amazing views, mostly lower traffic roads. We call it the Bridge of the Gods ride.

I'm not sure what employment there is in Camas other than the paper mill, but it's very close to Vancouver, WA. and in the middle of some excellent riding.

Lenusik - you and your hubby should ride Cycle Oregon http://www.cycleoregon.com/ It really showcases the state well, and you can fly into PDX and explore the area before and after.

Susan

snapdragen

01-05-2006, 03:23 PM

Portland is on my short list of places I might want to retire to. :D

doc

01-05-2006, 03:28 PM

andrew wants to buy a second home there. I'm curious what others think of Boise. Sounds like a lot of great outdoor activities, but I'm wondering what the city is like? Restaurants, entertainment? a good sushi place? organic produce? marinated tofu? falafel and hummus?

I can't answer your question, but I sure feel the pain. I moved to charlotte, nc a little over a year ago. It is something like the 20th largest city in the country. However, falafel and hummus? I've found ONE place. Organic? a little. A very little. Sushi? even less. Entertainment? growing but still weak. I miss Philly and Manhattan:(

Lenusik

01-05-2006, 03:35 PM

I love the Carolinas idea and also hear that Boise is great. Thank you for all your help. Will appreciate more suggestions. :D

Embellina

01-05-2006, 05:21 PM

As a Midwestern transplant (raised in Duluth, Minn. and school in Chicago), I'm baffled by your husband's desire to leave Phoenix. The beauty of living here is that you'll never be cold again! :) But lately the pollution has really bothered me, too, and I can understand why you want to move.

I'd consider Raleigh, N.C. I was looking at a job there a while ago and the city was really attractive to me. Incredibly educated population (think the research triangle) and very active community (lots of bike trails). North Carolina has gorgeous topography, plenty of hills and real seasons!

snowtulip

01-05-2006, 05:33 PM

I second Corsair's New Mexico suggestion. I keep thinking I'm going to move to Colorado, but I love New Mexico weather. We have mountains and desert, a river...lakes if you move to some other areas of the state. We have a booming IT market (Intel, Sandia Labs, Los Alamos Labs, Phillips, etc).

I put on my 2006 goals list to join Corsair's ladies ride, so you'd have two people to ride with. Although, I don't road bike, but Corsair is a maniac road biker.

$200000 will get you a swank house in ABQ. I paid $80,000 for mine and I have half an acre!

Crime's a bit of an issue, but all growing towns have problems.

luv'nAustin

01-05-2006, 05:49 PM

I guess you'd just have to look at my name tag to see how I feel about Austin!;)

I lived in Scottsdale for two years (just moved here eighteen months ago) and besides my friends, and the daily hiking I did on Camelback or The Peak, can't say I miss much of anything else! You should see that brown cloud from the top of those mountains... it is enough to make you wonder how much damage you've just done to your body. Must have done something to the brain too as I kept returning each day for more!

There are so many nice places to live, your decision won't be an easy one. I've also enjoyed living in Boulder, Pleasanton & Diablo (near San Jose and SF) and Minneapolis. I wasn't much of a rider until I moved to Austin, so I can't really compare them to this environment, but the riding is great here, especially if you like a little bit of a hill challenge in your route.

Good luck and have fun researching!

Grog

01-05-2006, 09:40 PM

Hey CindySue:

Pretty far from Fernie unfortunately, about 10 hours drive if not more. You must be flying to Calgary, right?

I don't ski much but it's supposed to be wonderful up there. Don't miss Kicking Horse, too.

And if you drive down to Vancouver let me know I'll find you a bike!

On_yer_left!

01-06-2006, 06:28 AM

Yikes! Cross off Denver, but don't nix Colorado. I live in Boulder and lovelovelove riding along the front range of the Rockies. The air quality up here is great -- used to have year-round allergies back in Connecticut, including asthma, and that's all GONE. While real estate prices in Boulder are $$$$$, go a bit north and it's reasonable -- Longmont, Loveland, Fort Collins -- and you have amazing cycling, reasonable winters (we're having 65 degrees and sunny today; past two weeks have been in the 50s and sunny, while the mountains are getting socked with snow less than an hour away!) My brother's desperately trying to move his young family here, partly because of my transformation in the 2 and a half years that I've been here. I can't imagine living anywhere else. (I write this while sipping coffee and gazing at the snow-covered foothills of the rockies. sigh)

The cycling really rocks here. Just amazing -- except when I get passed by professional cyclists like Tyler Hamilton who train here (for good reason) on the off-season. A little humbling.

Good luck in your search!

DeniseGoldberg

01-06-2006, 07:01 AM

This is a really dangerous thread for me!

I dream of moving west someday, and I've been thinking of Colorado east of the Rockies, Washington, and Oregon. Of course other locations could still jump into play since I'm not ready to pull the plug on my current location yet - but you gals are getting my imagination stirring again...

--- Denise

archibella

01-06-2006, 12:10 PM

I'll make another vote for Texas-- San Antonio.

-Jobs: some big employers in the area are Toyota, USAA, and SBC. Pay scale may not be as high as other larger cities, but cost of living isn't either...
-You're within 2.5 hrs of the beach, close enough for a day trip but far enough to be out of hurricane range.
-Other weather: Ok... so it gets really really hot and kinda humid in the summer. But winters are wonderful if you don't like cold. Occasionally we have air alerts, but not like Houston and some of the west coast.
-this is the city I started riding in. On the south side you have long flat stretches of farm country; On the north side you have rolling hills to hills; In the city there are tons of streets to explore (although not as bike friendly as Austin, SA is getting there). Also several big parks for mountain biking.
-LBS-- there are several, most of which are good.
-Cost of living is pretty decent, as well as housing costs. You can find just about everything.
-There are several other major cities close-by: Houston and Austin for things you can't find here as well as alternate airports.
-People; the people here are really friendly! I relocated here 3 years ago, and am really enjoying it.
-Entertainment... There are lots of fun restaurants; there's the riverwalk! There isn't as much theatre and classical music as there could be, but we still do ok (have a symphony and a broadway series).

I guess in short, san antonio is like a big small town (of 1.2 million)

good luck on your relocation search!!

Crankin

01-06-2006, 01:42 PM

Luv 'in Austin, that brown cloud DOES do damage to your body. Just this summer, I had a "funny looking" chest xray. My internist sent me for a CT scan and then to a pulmonary dr. to look at it. It showed an area of calcification in one lung that probably is scarring from repeated infections like bronchitis. As soon as the pulmonary doc saw that i had lived in Arizona, he said, "Do you know what Cocci is?" I certainly do know what it is, and although I never thought I had "Valley Fever," I guess I must have had it, when I though it was something else. I guess it just took 15 years to show up.

SalsaMTB

01-06-2006, 02:36 PM

I like the Raleigh N.C. idea also. It's one of the fastest growing cities in the US, good size and I've heard great riding. Whatever you do, stay away from MI!!!!

luv'nAustin

01-06-2006, 07:38 PM

I know that there are plenty of other cities that suffer from the brown cloud syndrome. Unfortunately, they are often in beautiful settings and sometimes it is a direct cause of the surrounding mountains holding the pollution in the "bowl" and not allowing it to escape into the atmosphere. It was often mentioned in the news (during certain times of the year) when we lived in Denver and Boulder.

I have a friend in Diablo that refuses to run on busy roads becuase she fears that the exhaust does more harm than the exercise does good.

Perhaps we should be wearing masks? Gosh, that would be pretty funny, can't imagine how I could suck in enough air to get me up a hill with a mask covering my mouth. I could just see it coming untied and sucking it down my throat as I gasp for more air! :eek: ;) Guess I'm letting you all in on my level of fitness.:o

SadieKate

01-06-2006, 07:43 PM

Funny that this topic should come up today as a friend, the MadCyclist, also sent me this article about diesel fumes.

http://www.sacbike.org/sacbiking/Diesel.htm

luv'nAustin

01-07-2006, 09:15 AM

no denying...pollution is a very bad thing!

Irulan

01-09-2006, 06:30 AM

I've heard great things about Vancouver also. Never been there myself but it is on my list.

Hey Grog, how far are you from Fernie? I will be skiing up there from Feb 8-12....

topic drift. I just got back from Fernie last night, I sure hope conditions improve. Our plan was to ski 4 days. We skied 1.1. On Friday it was pouring at the base and we turned our tickets back in after one run to the top. The top of the mountain has been getting lots of heavy "cascade cement" snow that only skiers who dont' know any better would call "powder". We skied one day anyway when the rain quit and had fun, but at $60 a pop we weren't going to ski a lot of crud when we can do that at home for free. We actually came home a day early. I sure hope it improves for you! You know when you go to Sparwood to look at the Biggest Truck in the World that your ski vacation has gone sideways.

Irulan

Irulan

01-09-2006, 06:33 AM

I'm not too sure about the SF Bay Area being such a great place. I'd move in a minute if it weren't for my job.

Housing is $$$$$$
Schools are iffy -- some are great, others not so much.
Air Quality :eek:

I don't know what the jobs are like, but I know a couple people (cyclists) in Boulder, CO that just love it.

Spokane WA is nice too, but again, I know nothing of the job market.

I'm with snap here. We left the Bay 16 years ago due to cost of housing, commute times and poor quality schools ( gotta love prop 13) and lack of mountains.

Spokane has a definite IT sector, just not on the scale of a huge city. Liberty Lake is where it's all happening. Hewlett Packard, Telect, XO, Worldwide Packets all have a presence here.

Our public schools are very good.

Irulan,

Irulan

01-09-2006, 06:35 AM

andrew wants to buy a second home there. I'm curious what others think of Boise. Sounds like a lot of great outdoor activities, but I'm wondering what the city is like? Restaurants, entertainment? a good sushi place? organic produce? marinated tofu? falafel and hummus?

Boise is the hippest city in Idaho. IT's a U- town, and the state governement seat which gives it a leg up over any other small city in the state. Any small city in the interior will never have the same caliber of things as a costal, major city but the way I see it, that's the sacrifice you pay for more affordable housing, less crowds, more open space and so on.

irulan

SadieKate

01-09-2006, 07:59 AM

The top of the mountain has been getting lots of heavy "cascade cement" snow that only skiers who dont' know any better would call "powder". Ah, like Sierra Cement? Now that yellow is in Utah she's having to learn to deal with that weird powdery stuff they call snow out there.

DirtDiva

01-09-2006, 02:14 PM

Oh, the hardship! ;)

cindysue

01-09-2006, 03:38 PM

You know when you go to Sparwood to look at the Biggest Truck in the World that your ski vacation has gone sideways.

LOL - but sorry - what a bummer! Guess we'll just have to see how the weather is a month from now. Thanks for the update!!!

Irulan

01-09-2006, 03:53 PM

It is a Really Big Truck. Really.

http://www.sparwood.bc.ca/pics/bcard2.jpg

BikeMomma

01-09-2006, 04:47 PM

Here is some info about air quality and city ratings. http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/28/air.pollution/

This article is from 2004 so things may have changed slightly - probably not for the better though.
Oh my gosh, I did NOT need to look at that link....Central Valley cities are six out of the top ten, and I work in Merced...geez! I need to move to the coast. Been saying it...this proves I need to do it!

You do not want to move here!
- Bike "cough, hack" Momma

Irulan

01-09-2006, 05:52 PM

The internet makes it SO much easier to research these kind of things now. I remember when we were preparing to leave the Bay Area, we were contacting various chamber of commerces for information packets; looking at a lot of regional maps, weather information etc. Things we looked at included
-outdoor recreation: whitewater, mountains skiing
-overall climate
-proximity to National Forest
-school system
-overall cost of living/housing

The job was pretty much done, we just had several cities to consider. It came down to Boise v. Spokane.

limewave

01-09-2006, 07:16 PM

You could look into Grand Rapids, MI. It was featured as one of the top 5 places in the US to raise a family. There's lots to do in West Michigan. Of course there are the great lakes and the beaches, but there's lots of hiking, a growing cycling community, skiing and show shoeing in the winter . . . plus its affordable. There's good theater, a diverse culture, and Chicago is just a 3.5 hour drive if you get the urge for a really big city.

BikeMomma

01-11-2006, 10:02 AM

Another good link regarding nationwide housing prices: http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/29/real_estate/buying_selling/handicapping_housing_markets/index.htm
Note Greenville NC is -4% in terms of prices vs. value (underpriced homes). Another reason for you to look into moving there.

Also note Merced is 77% overpriced, plus probably more than half of the top twenty are in the same area.....smog, overpriced homes...I repeat! Do NOT move to the Central Valley, CA! We bought our 4bdrm/2ba new-construction home just before prices in our neighborhood skyrocketed. We could sell ours for about a $150,000 profit over what we bought it for only just 2.5 years ago.

Geonz

01-11-2006, 01:46 PM

I have a very good bikin' buddy in Easley, SC 'bout 10 miles out of Greenville. I've been there several times and it *is* sweet. Lots of rolling hills, lots of friendly cyclists slow medium and fast, lots of parks and fresh air. SOme of the roads are a little skinny but there are plenty of good routes.

We do *not* have hills here, which I thought would be a problem for me... but Champaign-Urbana has good air (unless you're allergic to corn pollen... and that *is* something to consider), enough population to have Stuff Going ON, but not so many as to have major congestions of air or highways, and lots of IT type stuff (welp, Netscape came from here, and my theory is the Illini are such good shots with the basketball because the engineers have figured out a nano-technology micro-magnetic material to draw the ball in or repulse it). I paid $83,000 for my cozy 3-bedroom rancher w/ 1100 sq. feet and a full basement and it isn't a fixer-upper.

CHarlottesville, Virginia is also a really, really sweet part of the world, though I am not *sure* it has good air quality (I lived 50 miles north in Culpeper, where we did, and have some cabins way the heck up near Skyline Drive) because it might have some specific valley geography issues. It's also a University town.

But hey, Baltimore is supposedly the "fittest" town (which makes the locals laugh...)

Lenusik

01-12-2006, 09:44 AM

But hey, Baltimore is supposedly the "fittest" town (which makes the locals laugh...)

This is a really funny quote. Also, I cannot imagine that Phoenix, AZ is on top of the same list while Mesa, AZ is on top of the list of the "fattest" towns. It is one big metropolitan area, for God's sake. How could they divide them? Anyway, Phoenix metro is fat, sorry, I had to say it.

As I said, I love the idea about Greenville, it really sounds great. We just need to find a job there. And I seriously do not undertstand why some people still continue to sell me on CA. We can afford a house there, but why would I want to spend so much on less than I have now. No way. We still have to budget for the kids!

My husband is looking at Green Bat, WI. I think he is starting to feel his WI roots. But I am glad that he is still considering other places.

We found a funny site that will compare your current place to the others.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/movecalc.asp?a=0&d1=75000&d2=98.9585392597805&d3=100.292302675415

BikeMomma

01-12-2006, 10:10 AM

Lenusik-

Tell him NC's warmer, and when it snows in WI, HE'S shoveling!

Thanks for posting that link. It seems I could move from here to Portland OR with no problem -- I says I could even take a 5.84% pay cut!

Your thread has got me seriously thinking -- gotta convince the dh -- but from what I've seen (I knew it, just didn't want to face it), the area in which I'm living now is not really all that good. We probably should seriously consider a move too, for at least the kids' health sake.

Good luck in your decision!
-BikeMomma

Lenusik

01-13-2006, 06:42 AM

You know, BikeMomma, people are weird, they get used to anything. Then they settle down and forget that they actually can take life in their own hands and make a change. And I am glad that we are trying to make this change, finally. I think that California is beautiful but I cannot imagine us being able to gain anything there. It is expensive, the schools are not that great and some place are just unsafe.

I told my husband this morning that I am not AFRAID of the midwest winters but it is certainly a concern. I would have to get a LOT of ASSOS gear to keep me warm out there. On the other hand, if we get a nice house in a smaller community, this would be a great place to raise the kids.
Good luck to you too and really thanks for the suggestions.

- Lenusik

Geonz

01-13-2006, 12:09 PM

You will want to visit and get a sense for the community. Greenville culture is going to be like being in a different country, probably.

When I was in Columbia, SC... it was a school year to remember. I moved into an apartment, having burned out my brakes towing my car down there... an angel named George appeared, helped us load everything into the house, and knew a g;uy who would fix my brakes.
Previous apartment owner had dogs... with fleas... you should have seen my feet. THey looked like those pictures in the back of the biology book with the strange parasites from other countries.
Couple of days later, I hear this bang in the back of the house. I wasn't unpacked yet - something must have crashed down. Can't figure it out... get depressed at the idea that I'll find whatever broken thing it is, eventually... and the upstairs neighbor is bangning on my door, am I okay? His gun went off... we found the hole in the ceiling over my bed (my toes).
Next week my car got stolen. Good thing I had my bike, tho' riding in Columbia ain't fun!
Right before Christmas, I wake up and have to convince this guy in my bedroom to put down my sock and leave, and since he hadn't done anything, I didn't have a reason to call the cops.
I should have taken my first visit as a warning - I stayed in a motel and had them move me two times before I was actually in a non-smoking room... but I *was* where I could hear all the action ("Put the gun DOWN!") in the middle of the night. I figure the clerk knew something was up and was trying to protect me...

Columbia's 120 miles from Greenville btw.

And my next bicycling accessory is on it's way........ I've got the UPS tracking number....

fixedgeargirl

01-13-2006, 08:49 PM

You just might enjoy Austin a whole heck of a lot. Lots of IT companies, a very active cycling community and many, many miles to ride in all directions. Your options are even greater and more bucolic if you drive just an hour or two out of the city and enjoy some of the little-travelled county roads in the area. You're already accustomed to heat (ah, but it's a dry heat ;) ), so you may just find the weather to your liking. The high temp last summer was 108, and I know Phoenix gets hotter than that. And now, in the middle of January, it's 70 degrees and sunny :). I wore long sleeves on my mtb ride today and was overdressed :rolleyes: !

I am raising an almost 6 year old here, and find it to be a great place for kids. There are events nearly every weekend that are kid-friendly, many of them free, and in my little pocket of Austin there is a very low crime rate. Most of the crime that makes the news is personal vendetta, not random stranger-on-stranger crime. Lots of swimming holes, creeks, etc. and entertainment, hey, it's the Live Music Capital! It also sees its share of touring companies (we're going to see Cathy Rigby in Peter Pan next month) in addition to wacky Austintatious groups like the Cycle Circus.

You likely won't need a covered court in the winter here, but I bet you could find one if you looked. I live in a (relatively) popular older neighborhood, and homes are priced from $200K up. Go farther afield (I can see downtown from my porch) and the prices are better. Oh yeah, and an international airport not far from downtown.

I'm not a city girl, and don't know how long I'm going to last here, but there is a live and let live vibe in this town that I really love. Freaks, geeks and guys in $2000 suits all mingling together. People here really like to be outside, from hard-core athletes to Ma & Pa sitting on the porch shelling pecans, folks really value their outdoor time. Makes for a pretty livable city, I think.

BikeMomma

01-14-2006, 08:13 PM

You know, BikeMomma, people are weird, they get used to anything. Then they settle down and forget that they actually can take life in their own hands and make a change.
Yep! That's me....one of those weird people! Seriously though, you couldn't be more right.

I think that California is beautiful but I cannot imagine us being able to gain anything there.
I'll definitely would miss California, but mainly for the land itself. I LOVE Yosemite (only about a 1.5 hr drive) and the California coast, especially Monterey, but there's natural beauty up north too. I have to remember that. When I was a kid, 10yrs I think, we visited Crater Lake, OR and it was absolutely gorgeous. Loved it!

I would have to get a LOT of ASSOS gear to keep me warm out there.
Oh, how terrible!!!:p :p

luv'nAustin

01-15-2006, 12:19 PM

I agree, there are many things about California that are easy to miss. The land is truly beautiful. I went with my family over winter break to Disney World (not the ideal vacation destination for the week after Christmas, unless you love crowds and waiting in lines) and our favorite ride was "Soaring over California" It was wonderful to revisit those sites, even if it was only for two minutes!

veloputt

01-18-2006, 09:30 AM

How about Eugene, OR? Alas not as good of job opportunities as Portland, but better weather, fantastic for cycling right from your garage!! Flats if you head north, and as much climbing as you want any other direction w/in 5-10 minutes. And easy to cycle around the city, too. I lived there for 5 years, and loved it, though meth addicts abound, and so some property crime issues, but fabulous food, lots of energy and creativity, and a gorgeous area. Great for golf, too.

Trek420

01-18-2006, 10:43 AM

cindysue "I've heard great things about Vancouver also. Never been there myself but it is on my list."

I love Vancouver, but if cost and job was no object I'd choose Victoria. Just a ferry boat ride from the big city, Vancouver and much better weather. Canadians feel free to chime in on which is best. Both seem bike/ped friendly.

Lenusik

01-19-2006, 05:58 AM

[QUOTE=veloputt]How about Eugene, OR? Alas not as good of job opportunities as Portland ...

I would prefer a smaller town but the job situation will be a factor for us right now. But we are definitely looking for a nice small community if only possible.
Btw, we left to work this morning at 6:10 am and traffic was already horrible. Stop and go all way. Another good reason to leave Phoenix and find a nice small town.

pkq

01-21-2006, 06:26 AM

http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/

tulip

01-21-2006, 02:35 PM

I've never been to Green Bay, but it seems like it has everything going for it: good air, community, family. The winters would be different, but if you got into XC skiing, you might find that you look forward to it as much as cycling in the summer.

Asheville, North Carolina is very nice--beautiful mountains, good riding, hip community, lots to do. The schools are so-so, but there are some good private schools. The climate is good, too. It snows, but not a whole lot.

Greenville, SC is not far from Asheville. I've heard good things about it, but I haven't been there.

Austin would be great, but I bet it's pricey, housewise, while San Antonio would be alot more reasonable on that front. Can't beat the climate.

One note about schools...there's so much more to schools than the reputation as a "good school district". When I was a kid, I moved from Cambridge, Mass with a reputation of a so-so school district to Newton, Mass, which was supposed to have fantastic schools. I was miserable in Newton, shoved into a giant school with 2000 kids. Magnet schools in weaker districts can be better than regular schools in stronger districts. It gets down to the individual school and even teachers, and therefore requires a bit of legwork other than looking at rankings. Also, if you find a place with affordable housing and some good private schools, there's nothing wrong with considering them, too.

Geonz

01-22-2006, 06:00 PM

One note about schools...there's so much more to schools than the reputation as a "good school district". When I was a kid, I moved from Cambridge, Mass with a reputation of a so-so school district to Newton, Mass, which was supposed to have fantastic schools. I was miserable in Newton, shoved into a giant school with 2000 kids. Magnet schools in weaker districts can be better than regular schools in stronger districts. It gets down to the individual school and even teachers, and therefore requires a bit of legwork other than looking at rankings. Also, if you find a place with affordable housing and some good private schools, there's nothing wrong with considering them, too.
Ain't that the truth!

Districts that are "highly ranked" are often willing to make compromises to keep that ranking, so if your kids aren't going to fit the mold and raise their numbers (whichever numbers they're looking at that year), welp, they just aren't priorities.

SueJ, webmastress
http://www.resourceroom.net