No Women In Tour De France

[kamikazejane]

Why is this????

[indysteel]

Because it's a race for male professional cyclists? There's version of the TdF for women, too. I know that may not seem like much of an answer, but it's like a lot of professional sports. There are women's teams and men's teams and sanctioned events that are specific to each.

But I'm no Tour expert or even follower; perhaps someone has a more official sounding answer than that.

[Becky]

I can't think of a single pro sport where men and women compete against one another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_F%C3%A9minin

[jessmarimba]

I can't think of a single pro sport where men and women compete against one another.


Not pro-only, and not competing against each other, but most major long-distance running races (marathon and longer) have men and women on the same course at the same time. So I can see where it might make sense for men and women to be in the same bike races together.

That's the only sport I can think of, though.

[indysteel]

I can't think of a single pro sport where men and women compete against one another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_F%C3%A9minin

There are women in both Indy car and Nascar who compete against men. And there are a few other sports like dressage where women and men compete against one another. But it's not the norm for sure.

[Eden]

Are you asking why there isn't a women's peleton or why there aren't simply women racing with the men?

Occasionally, very, very occasionally we have a woman around here good enough to hang with the boys. One who's probably going to turn pro just did a stage race with the guys and finished very respectfully mid pack, but even she'd be totally outclassed by the pro guys.

As far as why there isn't a women's peleton... same as why it can be hard in local racing to get women's fields. We are fewer in number, so it can be hard to turn out enough racers and there's fewer sponsors giving money and prizes and no TV rights. The organizers of racers usually don't do it for free... it's a money making enterprise, in the world of us amateurs that means if we can't get out the numbers the organizers will prefer to pass us over for a field that can. In the pros if you can't sell stuff.... advertising rights, tv rights then it's not worth their time.

[lovelygamer]

Yep, they already answered it. It's a men's race because women just can't compete at the level the men can, mostly a strength and fitness issue. Sponsors want to sponsor winners and sponsors are what it's all about. Some say, if the race was longer...women would win. That's when their real advantages and strengths come into play.

They have a few women's races like it. Here is a small non competitive one that is running this year at the same time: http://www.reve.cc/

[SadieKate]

You may not consider it a "pro sport", but do a little reading on women ultradistance runners.

[Irulan]

There are no women in ANY men's pro cycling. It's MEN'S pro cycling.

[jobob]

Every pro cyclist chosen by his team to ride in the Tour is there for a specific reason: he either excels as a sprinter, a mountain climber, a time trialist, or some combination of the above (a GC contender), or, he is strong enough to be able to support the classification contenders on the team. The support riders are arguably the strongest (Ed to add: and hardest-working!) members of the team, they're the ones who ride up at the front of the peleton and chase down the breakaways, ride back & forth to the team cars to get water and such, keep the classification contenders shielded from the wind and out of trouble, and then there's the scary-fast guys who serve as leadout for the sprinters.

I don't think a woman racer exists who is strong enough to be able to contribute in a meaningful way to the goals of the professional team that she would be representing in the Tour de France. Correct me if you think I'm wrong here. Perhaps a team without any sort of classification ambitions would consider including a woman, but imho that would simply be for publicity purposes, and I suspect the woman would not be able to finish all 21 stages within the time cut-offs; she'd likely not even make it within the time cut-offs once the race reached the high mountains. And I don't think anyone would want to see that scenario.

[SadieKate]

There are no women in ANY men's pro cycling. It's MEN'S pro cycling.

Exactly.

Off the top of my head, sports that are not gender-specific for the most part and have a professional component: equestrian, sailing, auto racing, shooting, billiards.

[kamikazejane]

It's a shame. I would think there would at least be a recognized sanctioned womens class for Tour De France.

[kamikazejane]

They have a few women's races like it. Here is a small non competitive one that is running this year at the same time: http://www.reve.cc/

That's awesome. Mucho Kuddos to them.

[pll]

Women's stage races have less stages and are much shorter (100km versus 200km per day). Right now, I am following the women's version of the Giro d'Italia, the Giro Donne. It only has 9 stages. Today is stage #8 - I linked to the coverage in a separate thread.

The Tour started with 198 riders, and last year there was some discussion about allowing less riders on the course, due to the massive crashes. Today we had another one of those crashes. Frankly, I cannot see a women's field at the same time. it would be nice if a women's field competed on the same course a day earlier.

[SadieKate]

As Indy said, there is, or at least was a TdF for women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_F%C3%A9minin

Do you think women should actually be in the same event with the men? Really?

There is a limit to the number of riders you can logistically and safely put into a race pack. The riders are already greatly at risk due to pack size, bottlenecks at the finish, scary descents that provide a thrill to the TV viewer but not the rider. The riders stage sit-ins when they think their safety is overly compromised.

Read through jobob's post. To keep the size of the peloton to a safe number, would you reduce the number of men's teams and deny the sponsors, the folks who put up the money, the opportunity to get their name on TV? The TdF is now about money, sponsorship and media coverage which means the sponsors only want the top riders in the world competing. It isn't about providing gender equality. I think the sponsors would drop like flies if it was.

[Eden]

The Tour started with 198 riders, and last year there was some discussion about allowing less riders on the course, due to the massive crashes. Today we had another one of those crashes. Frankly, I cannot see a women's field at the same time. it would be nice if a women's field competed on the same course a day earlier.

Unfortunately it takes a *huge* amount of organization to do these races.... an extra day of officials, support and traffic control would probably be too expensive for the organizers.

It might be feasible to send a women's race just after the men, so it would just be a few extra hours.

[Irulan]

Exactly.

Off the top of my head, sports that are not gender-specific for the most part and have a professional component: equestrian, sailing, auto racing, shooting, billiards.

The above listed also have technical aspect, as in , the horse is as much or more of a part of the competition as is the rider. I don't think you can say the same thing about a bike.

[indysteel]

[QUOTE=SadieKate;645591]As Indy said, there is, or at least was a TdF for women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_F%C3%A9minin/QUOTE]

Cancelled? I didn't know that. What a shame.

[kamikazejane]

Women's stage races have less stages and are much shorter (100km versus 200km per day). Right now, I am following the women's version of the Giro d'Italia, the Giro Donne. It only has 9 stages. Today is stage #8 - I linked to the coverage in a separate thread.

The Tour started with 198 riders, and last year there was some discussion about allowing less riders on the course, due to the massive crashes. Today we had another one of those crashes. Frankly, I cannot see a women's field at the same time. it would be nice if a women's field competed on the same course a day earlier.


Thanks, had no idea about the Giro Donne.

[SadieKate]

The above listed also have technical aspect, as in , the horse is as much or more of a part of the competition as is the rider. I don't think you can say the same thing about a bike.Yeah, you can take the brawn out of the equation and let the brain and coordination dominate. :p

[kamikazejane]

[QUOTE=SadieKate;645591]As Indy said, there is, or at least was a TdF for women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_F%C3%A9minin/QUOTE]

Cancelled? I didn't know that. What a shame.

Yeah I saw that it was cancelled as well. What a bummer.

[SadieKate]

The above listed also have technical aspect, as in , the horse is as much or more of a part of the competition as is the rider. I don't think you can say the same thing about a bike.

And let's not forget the One Fly competition.

http://www.jhonefly.org/

[pll]

Unfortunately it takes a *huge* amount of organization to do these races.... an extra day of officials, support and traffic control would probably be too expensive for the organizers.

It might be feasible to send a women's race just after the men, so it would just be a few extra hours.

I know... and it is also a massive 'tax' on the different cities. The problem is that some stages are really long. I'd love to see more women's races -- hence my advertising of the little coverage the Giro Donne gets (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=48011).

[indysteel]

To echo one of the things SK said, ultradistance events offer a chance for women to compete alongside men. I spent part of my holiday reading up on Ezster Horanyi (http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdoor-adventure/inside-the-tour-divide-with-eszter-horanyi.html), the women who recently finished seventh overall and first among women at this year's Tour Divide.

[TsPoet]

I do think that Canondale's TDF women's group is kinda neet.
http://www.cannondale.com/women#7

[pll]

I do think that Canondale's TDF women's group is kinda neet.
http://www.cannondale.com/women#7

Are you following them? It's kind of fun. For those interested:

Heidi Swift's blog for Peloton magazine: http://pelotonmagazine.com/Swift/articleindex/22/0/SwiftARCHIVE
Kristen Peterson's blog: http://www.kristenpeterson.com/2012/07/stage-4-holy-hell-this-hurts.html
A twitter list including the 6 team members: https://twitter.com/#!/cynicalprof/revetdf

[gnat23]

They have a few women's races like it. Here is a small non competitive one that is running this year at the same time: http://www.reve.cc/

I've been watching my friend Heidi get ready for this, all the training, panic, and adrenaline that has come with it. She's been writing for Peloton magazine the whole time, which is a new kind of hell: Ride 130 km, THEN be eloquent in prose? Wow.

http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Wisdom/content/22/1618/Swift-Stage-4

It's not a race, but the women are riding the whole stage the day prior to the men. The miles and emotions are very much real and her stories and tweets have been putting the TdF in quite a different perspective for me.

-- gnat! (GO HEIDI GO!)

[jobob]

She's been writing for Peloton magazine the whole time, which is a new kind of hell: Ride 130 km, THEN be eloquent in prose? Wow.

Wow indeed. That's a fascinating read, thanks pll and gnat!

[Blueberry]

Not pro-only, and not competing against each other, but most major long-distance running races (marathon and longer) have men and women on the same course at the same time. So I can see where it might make sense for men and women to be in the same bike races together.

That's the only sport I can think of, though.

Triathlon also - some of the top women place in the middle of the men (or at least they did when Chrissie was racing....).

[Susan Otcenas]

Not pro-only, and not competing against each other, but most major long-distance running races (marathon and longer) have men and women on the same course at the same time.

Triathlon as well. Males and females compete at the same distances at the same time on the same course. It's one of the reasons I love triathlon. There's no "dumbing down" the distances for the women.

Many ultra-cycling events are the same. Males and females ride the same course, same distance. This is true in competitive events like RAAM and Furnace Creek 508, as well as non-competitive events like randonneuring (Paris-Brest-Paris), etc. That does mean, though, that women participate in much smaller numbers. At PBP last year, there were 5000 starters, just 300 of which were women. 4000 people finished, including just 200 women.

I happen to believe that women are very well suited to endurance events. We may not have the same power as men (and therefore don't keep up when the hammer gets put down), but we can ride or run very consistently for long periods of time. I've done any number of rando rides where I (voluntarily) get shelled off the back in the first 30 miles, only to see many of the same men again 100 miles down the road, gooses cooked.

Thus, I think women could actually survive a race as long as the TdF, but not at the same speeds. And it's the speed, sprints and crashes that get viewers all riled up and excited. Without the same level of excitement, sponsors are not interested. Which is one of the reasons women's pro racing suffers so much. Not enough drama.

[SadieKate]

Not enough drama.

If you want drama, watch women's tennis. :rolleyes:

[lovelygamer]

I've been watching my friend Heidi get ready for this, all the training, panic, and adrenaline that has come with it. She's been writing for Peloton magazine the whole time, which is a new kind of hell: Ride 130 km, THEN be eloquent in prose? Wow.

http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Wisdom/content/22/1618/Swift-Stage-4

It's not a race, but the women are riding the whole stage the day prior to the men. The miles and emotions are very much real and her stories and tweets have been putting the TdF in quite a different perspective for me.

-- gnat! (GO HEIDI GO!)

That is awesome! GO Heidi is right. The ladies came up on my radar because I am in the National Bike Challenge and Kate Powlison came up on the top of our leader board a week or so ago. Those girls are amazing. I am going to look at your link later. Thanks!!

PS. Have you girls been following Larissa on the Big Ride? Her facebook posts and pictures have been great. What a great life experience she is having.:D

[velo]

Women have their own pro circuit (http://www.procyclingwomen.com/) and really, when watching any sport, the most exciting events to watch are when people are evenly matched. I wouldn't want to watch a mixed event. Most people wouldn't because they like to watch fierce competition. And when people don't watch, the "pro" in pro cycling no longer exists because the riders are just two-legged advertisements. The advertising companies want the most bang for their buck. Just look at Trek sales (and the Madone in particular) because of Lance.

But really, as someone mentioned above, men are just much stronger riders. It doesn't diminish what women are capable of, it's just different.

[malkin]

If you want drama, watch women's tennis. :rolleyes:

Or men's tennis.

[SadieKate]

I think there's less. Maybe it's just my reaction to all the shrieks and grunting. Not to mention, the women barely even make eye contact when they shake hands at the end of a match. It's pretty well known that they hardly talk to each other in the locker room. Some cry on court during the match.

The men frequently clasp hands much more warmly, give each other hugs or pats and talk to each other. There is constant discussion about who is best friends with whom. The concept of "sportsmanship" is more apparent, sometimes even helping each other not waste line challenges.

Maybe back in the Connor/McEnroe era, the men won in the drama department but not now.

OK, there is Murray and his constant aches and pains . . .

[malkin]

Maybe back in the Connor/McEnroe era, the men won in the drama department but not now.


Alas, those two got old and now pitch for Advil and rental cars. No more drama.

Nastase was also quite a piece of work back in the day.

[kamikazejane]

Are you following them? It's kind of fun. For those interested:

Heidi Swift's blog for Peloton magazine: http://pelotonmagazine.com/Swift/articleindex/22/0/SwiftARCHIVE
Kristen Peterson's blog: http://www.kristenpeterson.com/2012/07/stage-4-holy-hell-this-hurts.html
A twitter list including the 6 team members: https://twitter.com/#!/cynicalprof/revetdf


Thanks for the links....just read through their adventures thus far. So awesome!!!!!

[Kiwi Stoker]

If there was a woman who could ride TdF with the men I suspect then her femaleness would come into question.

(I watched the doco on Caster the SA runner who had to pass "sex" tests as people thought she was too male.)

Or that she was taking testrosogen.

[Suze]

My understanding is that the women's Tour de France covers a different, shorter route, happens sporadically, and is not occurring this year, or last.Riders I met in the Pyrenees told me about it. I think it was called La Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale.

There is a group of 6 amateur women cyclists riding the route this year. I just published the link in a different post, hadn't seen this.

[Suze]

There used to be an event called La Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale. I believe it began in the 1980s, but hasn't happened for several years. Some riders in the Pyrenees told me it was considerably shorter. As an aside, I just posted a thread about six American amateur women who are riding the route this year. Hadn't seen this post when I wrote it.

[Possegal]

The pro-cycling race in Philly every June has both a men's and a women's race. The race is a around a 15 mile loop and the men do like 7 laps and the women do 4 I think. Each lap includes a climb up the Manayunk Wall. It's neat to watch both of them - they are on the course at the same time for a period. At one point the moto crew for the women's race came around the corner and they had put on their sign that for the first time ever - the women had lapped the men. The crowd went wild. :) (don't ask me to explain the logistics of it, as I honestly can't remember and it was 2 years ago that I was up there riding around on my bike with my sister and brother-in-law, watching it from several vantage points).

The one thing I noticed that I thought was interesting was how the team cars rode. The cars for the male riders rode with a level of crazy reckless abandon that the women's cars did not. Despite that in all cases it was men driving the cars. It was actually an interesting difference.

[Dog]

Totally impressed by the six ladies riding the tour (REVE). Pretty awesome and fun to follow.

[sashadieken]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/23/2127657/fans-guide-to-the-inaugural-exergy.html

[nuliajuk]

We just got back from a vacation that was partly in France, and arrived at our hotel on the outskirts of Rouen to find two, count em, two professional teams camped out there. Each team had a full size bus for the riders, an equally large truck to serve as a mobile workshop, several cars to carry the team bikes, at least two bikes for every rider, extra wheels for all those bikes, extra chainrings and parts in the truck, tools and washing equipment... After my husband picked his jaw up off the ground, he tried to estimate what all that must cost - in addition to salaries and team clothing, and just gave up. It's a hugely expensive proposition, to outfit a professional cycling team. This is way out of the league of things like marathon running.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can figure out how. I've tried the paperclip symbol, but it just seems to park the images somewhere.