Trying to establish a relationship with LBS

[velo]

During my years off, an LBS moved into the little burg where I live - blocks from me. I'm not far from a metropolitan area, so I have had multiple shops to choose from within a 30 minute drive, the nearest being about 15 minutes away. That one that was 15 minutes away has since closed and the next nearest one in the city is about 30 minutes away. But... now I have one that is within walking distance!!!

Perhaps it's because I didn't buy my bike from them, but I get really anxious when I go into this bike shop. I know part of it is my own self-perception: a middle-aged, overweight, out-of-shape woman who looks like a total Wilma on her bike... how can I know anything about bikes, right? Still, technology HAS passed me by. I do know about bikes, but my knowledge is definitely dated. I find myself very self-conscious when I'm in the shop and just want to get out of there. I admit that I'm buying most of my gear on-line, partly because of that and partly because it's all just so much cheaper on the web!

So, I had my bike tuned-up at this place a week - 10 days ago. My FD was rubbing some and needed adjusted as part of that tune-up. Part of me wonders what the heck they actually did to the bike, but I'm not confident enough to walk in and say, "hey, can you look at this again?" When I'm in the big ring up front, middle of the cassette in back, it's *still* rubbing. I don't spin in these gears, so I'm not in them a lot, but when I need them, they are noisy. In the small ring, I have gears that are making noise that previously were not. I want to take it back and talk to them, and not be confrontational about it (I want these guys to become my friends), but firm that something isn't right. I just don't have the confidence to do that. I have ridden about 200 miles on this "tuned-up" bike so I feel that I've spent enough time on it to know what's going on.

Any suggestions or help? Thanks!

[indysteel]

Does it help you to practice conversations that are causing you anticipatory anxiety? If so, practice what you'd like to say and how you'd like to say it.

I used to have trouble being assertive, but then I started working on a job that required me to be that way. I finally started to feel much more comfortable being that way in my personal interactions, too. First off, you have to accept that one can be assertive without being confrontational. Assuming you're the former and not the latter (unless the situation warrants it, you're good to go). Second, you have to accept that even polite assertiveness is going to rub some people the wrong way AND that that's not your problem. Trust your ability to handle yourself appropriately. If somebody reacts badly to that, then too bad. It's out of your control.

Here's the simple truth that you shouldn't overthink: Your bike isn't working properly even after a tune up. Call them up and tell them that and ask if you could schedule an appointment to have it looked at again. They probably won't even bat and eye, especially if once they get it in the shop, they can see what you're talking about. But, again, don't overthink it.

As for you more generalized LBS anxiety: I've found that it helps if I do my own background research before going into a shop so that I have some baseline of knowledge. It's helped me feel more confident and make better buying decisions, and it quickly dispels whatever stereotypes they may have about female riders/new riders. There are lots of resources on the web; you just have to be willing to invest the time. But understand, too, that some shops and some shop employees just aren't that great. I hope for your benefit that the new shop is a good one, but if you end up getting a bad vibe no matter how you approach them, it might be them, not you.

[westtexas]

I wish I had your problem. I have no trouble telling people it's not fixed right. I want to be friends with my LBS because the guy at the counter is SO cute!

When I had my bike built last year, I rode it for a while and kept hearing this weird jingling sound when going over bumps. I eventually narrowed it down to the cassette on the back. I took the rear wheel off and told the LBS guy (different shop in a different city than the one I am stalking now) that something was wrong with the cassette. Got the wheel back later that day and he said everything was fine.

Rode the bike, cassette still making that annoying noise.

Take the wheel back and told him the cassette is making that noise again. He told me it must be something else I'm hearing as he didn't find a problem last time. I take the wheel and bounce it up and down in front of him - jingling on every impact. Sure enough , when they built my rear wheel, a spacer was forgotten. I got him to replace the cassette and everything at no charge to me (they should have done it right the first time!).

I had a great relationship with that shop, I think this incident helped. They saw me as someone knowledgeable and demanding of the best service. Any question I had they'd help me with and anything I wanted or needed they'd order for me. I don't think he stiffed me on purpose the first time, but after that I know they were extra careful! I used to buy them pizza and we'd sit around and shoot the breeze too. It was great. I want cute new shop guy to be like that, haha.

[ny biker]

In my experience, people at a good LBS will treat you well no matter who you are, because they want to encourage you to come back again and again.

If they really don't respect you, they're not worth the effort. My favorite bike shops are not the ones closest to my home, they're the ones that treat people well.

But if you're just concerned that they won't respect you, even though you have no evidence of a problem, then take a deep breath, hold your head high and go in and talk to them. Customer service is their job. If they suck at it, that's their shortcoming, not yours. Try to visit when they're not busy -- the folks at my LBS are quite chatty when they're not in the weeds, and that's how they get to know their customers. And frankly, I'm pretty sure they understand and appreciate that they make more money off of me because of all the things I don't know about bikes, because I need to pay them to do things that some cyclists will do for themselves.

As for your drive train problem, you paid for a service so you have every right to bring the bike back and ask them to look at it again. Since you can give specific examples of the problem, it will show them that you know enough to be taken seriously. As long as you're friendly in dealing with them, they should treat you well.

And if they don't, it's their loss.

[indysteel]

If they really don't respect you, they're not worth the effort. My favorite bike shops are not the ones closest to my home, they're the ones that treat people well.



Amen to this.

I firmly believe that if the LBS is worth your business, they will not rebuff you simply because you hold them--politely--to a high standard for customer service. If they do rebuff you, then they aren't worth your business in the first place. Better to find out now what kind of shop the new shop is. Of course, there are other aspects to a good shop, too. I hope for your sake that they have good mechanics (and who are adept at working on Campy), regardless of how responsive they are to you. Good to find that out now, too.

[lph]

I can't imagine any bike mechanic worth his or her salt not wanting to fix something properly, and being happy for the chance. It should be a matter of pride. Maybe it helps if you know that bike wrenching, especially derailleur adjustment is often not a "there, that's fixed once and for all"-kind of thing. You need to tweak a little, and try it, tweak a bit more, and try it again. Telling them that it still rubs is not telling them that they're lazy or terrible mechanics or did something wrong. You're just telling them that they were a little conservative in the adjusting or the cable stretched a bit more, and they need to finetune it a bit more. It's not really a complaint, so just smile and tell them you need 10 more minutes of their time, please.

[Jiffer]

When my husband was first into cycling he felt sort of degraded when he'd visit our LBS. They were racers and all and he just didn't like how he felt when he went in there. He subsequently switched bike shops to one who takes care of him and he has, therefore, spent a gazillion dollars with them, as well as referred a lot of business to them.

You might consider taking your business to a different shop that you feel more comfortable at. The one he ended up at caters to all levels. The owner used to race professionally, sponsors a race team and has a lot of high end customers, but a LOT of his business comes from people buying commuter bikes to save on gas. And then he has everything in between. He treats everyone with the same respect. And, by the way, it was definitely a farther drive from our house.

As for your current problem with your bike not being adjusted properly, I do encourage you to take it back to the LBS who tuned it and assertively, yet politely, tell them it's not right and that it needs to be adjusted again. Don't "ask". "Tell" them it needs to be done. If nothing else, it will probably do your self esteem wonders. And you'll hopefully get it fixed properly without having to pay someone else to do it.

Who knows, maybe in doing so you'll discover the people there are more friendly than you thought and maybe you'll start to develop a better relationship with them.

We used to take our bikes to our LBS for adjustments and upgrading components and all that. Since then a cyclist friend of him taught him how to do everything on his own, plus gave him a book that teaches how to do it all. It has saved us a lot of money.

http://www.amazon.com/Zinn-Art-Road-Bike-Maintenance/dp/1934030422/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341263401&sr=1-1&keywords=zinn+bike+maintenance

He said he got a lot of basics from that book, but also reads info from manufacturers of components, etc. to get more specifics depending on what he's doing.

I know you may not have any aspirations of becoming your own bike mechanic, but thought I'd pass that along. ;) At the very least, you may want to learn how to do your own tune up.

[roo4]

I have two shops within 20 minutes of my house. I started with them when I bought both my road bike and my hybrid (that's two bikes in two years if you are keeping track). Both stores tried to sell me bicycles that didn't fit or did not match my needs. I got the impression that they were trying to move the stock on the floor rather than help me out. Both times I ended up driving an hour to a different store (actually two different stores). People talk about buying local, but if the local people are unwilling or unable to give good service, than they can go out of business without any tears from me.

[zoom-zoom]

My favorite bike shops are not the ones closest to my home, they're the ones that treat people well.

We have no less than 4 bike shops between us and OUR LBS. They are also small and have probably half the selection of a couple of the other shops, but we really won't shop anywhere else, at least not for big purchases. It limits our choices, but we will do everything in our power to help keep them in business.

[jessmarimba]

We have no less than 4 bike shops between us and OUR LBS. They are also small and have probably half the selection of a couple of the other shops, but we really won't shop anywhere else, at least not for big purchases. It limits our choices, but we will do everything in our power to help keep them in business.

Probably 30 between me and mine :) Best part is, I own a third-hand bike that was built by a shop owner for himself. The bike is fantastic, pretty good hodge-podge of parts but some components are way nicer than I could've afforded myself. But when I went in his shop (without telling the guy I now own his bike) I was totally turned off by the customer service. I'm sure if I'd just brought the bike in to look at, everything would've been peachy, but he's not worth my time. Unfortunately, finding a good shop (or even a favorite mechanic in a not-so-great shop) can take forever.

[zoom-zoom]

Unfortunately, finding a good shop (or even a favorite mechanic in a not-so-great shop) can take forever.

We got really lucky. DH decided 7+ years ago that he wanted a really nice road bike and incentive to ride it. So he bought a bike (from a shop we have no reason to frequent, now), looked at the charities his company supports, and discovered the JDRF Ride to Cure program. He's in his 7th (or 8th?) year and 3rd year as a coach. Our LBS is owned by his co-coach, who is also one of the national head-coaches. The head mechanic is a good friend and we take beer orders for him whenever we go visit my family in WI. :)

[Catrin]

I didn't have a good experience with my first LBS for reasons I won't go into here. Suffice it to say that I moved on to a much smaller and more independent LBS who "gets" that great customer service sells bikes and creates long-term customers. There may, possibly, be one closer to me but it is about customer service and having confidence in the mechanics.

I knew next to nothing about bikes when I walked into the door and I've never felt like they talked down to me or ignored me. I've dropped a LOT of money there since that first time in the door :rolleyes: I even take them cookies occasionally as a way to show my appreciation. Other people take them beer. I asked them once if they would prefer beer but was told that anyone can buy beer, not everyone can make good cookies so given a choice they want my cookies :) Can't think of any other store I've patronized where I would even consider doing this.

[lovelygamer]

I find it's hard to form a relationship with my LBS. We only have one in my town. I plan to visit two other LBS within a half hour before I buy my own bike. I want to make sure they are someone I can form that relationship with first. I understand your pain.:( I do think it's okay for you to report back their adjustments aren't working. I'm sure they will help you with this and are probably more used to it happening than you realize.

[velo]

Thank you to everyone... for encouraging and commiserating and giving me some pointers.

I'll give you an example of why I feel foolish in there. I went in to get a tube for my Lemond. Told the sales lady (young, fit, and pretty) that I needed a tube for my bike and asked where they were. She said that they keep them in the back, so she'd have to go get me one. So I asked, "What kind do you have?" That was my first mistake because I meant, "What *brand* do you sell?" She immediately latched on to dumb question number 1 and she started talking to me like a child. "Well, we have all kinds of bikes. Different bikes use different tubes. Is your bike like this one here? It's called a road bike and has skinnier tires.... blah, blah..." A few seconds later, I politely interjected and said, "Yes, it's a road bike I need a tube for a 23." "Okay, she says, now how WIDE of a tire do you have, do you know?" At which point I'm thinking to myself, "Does she think I mean 23" diameter? OMG, do they now make 23" tires for bikes... what happened to 26" tires? Why would they put that size of a tire on a road or mountain bike? Wouldn't that be kinda small... like for a child's bike? No, that can't be. What am I missing here?" She's babbling on and on while I'm feeling like there is yet another thing I don't know about and there is yet another sizing standard that I'm not aware of. Then I just say, "No, that *IS* the width. 23. millimeters. I need a 700 X 23. I'd just like to know the brand that you sell." It went O.K. from there, but I felt very patronized and my second guessing myself shot any confidence I had going in.

They are nice. They're not rude at all. I just don't get a good vibe. My old LBS... I would linger and hang out, it was so much fun to be there.

I really *should* learn to do some things myself. Until I met my husband, all the guys I dated rode. They did all of my mechanics for me and I never bothered to learn. I can change a flat and tinker with a derailleur some, adjust my brakes, deal with cleaning and lubing and that's about it. Dh knows nothing about bikes, although he does most of the "dirty work" around here. I was hoping he'd figure stuff out, but he has no interest in bikes, so if anyone around here is going to work on bikes, it will be me, which I'm not enthused about. I know... revoke my feminist card. :p

Muirren - yes, one of my bikes is what would be considered vintage steel, I suppose. My Lemond. It's not a serious road bike, though. Entry level race. Paid under $2k for it. My Klein... yes, that one is something more special, even today. But I don't bring it with me to the shop when I talk to them. The services manager *is* a nice guy. He's older, like me, and he knows Gary Klein's work, so he's easy to talk to. It's getting past the front of the house people. :rolleyes: Maybe I can bypass them and just say, "Could I talk to B. please?" Once I'm talking to him, I'm fine.

And once I get this drive train issue worked out, I think I may shop around for another LBS. This one's so convenient, though. Maybe I just need to grow a thicker skin and spend more time there. They carry Specialized, though, so I won't be buying much from them. Probably best to just move on. Thanks all!

[ny biker]

So she was young, fit, pretty, and bad at her job.

You have lots of knowledge about this product category. No one knows everything there is to know about it.

If they treat you like an idiot, they're not worth the aggravation.

[tulip]

You seem to be taking everything very personally. Would it have made a difference if the shop clerk were an old fat guy? Your own insecurities are your worst enemies--I know mine are. Sounds like the shop clerk was doing her job explaining different types of tubes. How was she supposed to know what kind of tube you were looking for?

[PamNY]

It's possible -- even likely -- that the woman who explained tubes meant to be helpful, not patronizing.

[velo]

Your own insecurities are your worst enemies

Absolutely!! This is it, in a nutshell. The woman was nice and I asked an ambiguous (stupid) question. My own insecurities killed my confidence when they shouldn't have... and when I wanted to stick around to browse, I took off instead. I did, however, get my Klein looked at again. They said it's adjusted to specs and it did not need to be worked on again. I didn't argue and said "thanks for looking at it!" and left.

[indysteel]

Why do you keep saying your question was stupid? Maybe it could have been phrased differently, but I don't think it was stupid. Try not being so hard on yourself.

[Owlie]

It's possible -- even likely -- that the woman who explained tubes meant to be helpful, not patronizing.

This. I work for a large chain bike shop. It is amazing how many people (including apparently experienced cyclists, who ride far more than I do) don't know what size tubes they need. I had someone (who rode a metric century the previous weekend) ask if a certain tube (with the size range printed on the box) would fit his tires. It's safer for her to assume that you don't know. (I'm not entirely sure how she didn't get "road bike tire, 23", though.)

[ny biker]

This. I work for a large chain bike shop. It is amazing how many people (including apparently experienced cyclists, who ride far more than I do) don't know what size tubes they need. I had someone (who rode a metric century the previous weekend) ask if a certain tube (with the size range printed on the box) would fit his tires. It's safer for her to assume that you don't know. (I'm not entirely sure how she didn't get "road bike tire, 23", though.)

Yeah but I don't see how a lecture about different types of bikes gets you to finding out what size tires a person has on their bike. It's certainly not a direct way of doing it.

Anyway, if I'm understanding this right, the bike needed some adjusting before the tune up but after the tune up it's making new noises at times when it should not be making noises, and the answer from the shop was that it's supposed to be that way. That's just wrong.

[Owlie]

Yeah but I don't see how a lecture about different types of bikes gets you to finding out what size tires a person has on their bike. It's certainly not a direct way of doing it.

Anyway, if I'm understanding this right, the bike needed some adjusting before the tune up but after the tune up it's making new noises at times when it should not be making noises, and the answer from the shop was that it's supposed to be that way. That's just wrong.

I see how she was trying to get there, but I agree it's silly. All I meant was that she was attempting to help, but not effectively.

[velo]

This. I work for a large chain bike shop. It is amazing how many people (including apparently experienced cyclists, who ride far more than I do) don't know what size tubes they need. I had someone (who rode a metric century the previous weekend) ask if a certain tube (with the size range printed on the box) would fit his tires. It's safer for her to assume that you don't know. (I'm not entirely sure how she didn't get "road bike tire, 23", though.)

And quite possibly, she *was* all about being helpful to a customer. What I meant in the post, though, was that she was talking to me like I was a child (this I know well... I'm a mother :p). I can't relate the tone of voice she had, but it actually was very patronizing.

I'm not being hard on myself. It really was a poorly-phrased question. No way for her to know if I had ever been on a bike or not. She could, though, have spoken a little differently and that's what I was talking about. She shouldn't be patronizing to any customer. She was not being *helpful* in my opinion. Yes, I should not have let it kill my confidence. That's my own insecurity. I buy plenty of things with technology/concept being "new" to me (e.g. my recently acquired e-reader) but where the salespeople are friendly and helpful, not patronizing. It makes me want to do more business with them. This place... not so much. They do give off a vibe and it's not all just me, I know.