People from elsewhere might cause change

[shootingstar]

Ok, not to cause a huge debate here.

But my observation over the decades of living in both medium sized cities (ie. under 200,000) and several large cities (over 1 million), I've noticed that sometimes major change in having residents support and make changes to their city for: better cycling infrastructure, more walkable/liveable communities/cities, money for transit development, etc. tends to come more easily from:

*people who have moved into our sprawly city/area and have had the experience of living in other parts of their country/other continents at least for several years, where there may be better systems and communities for all/some of the above

Certainly in working with people who have lived like myself in Toronto, VAncouver, Montreal, wherel there are some of the above traits in various parts of each city, with each city having a vibrant downtown core, these folks tend to be way more open to limiting surburban sprawl, etc.

But if it weren't for that, honest I do feel like a fish out of water now. Before I was in denial, but now it is for real.

The discussion of strategic residential densification (multi-family developments), having more on-road bike lanes, etc. is making the people I work with/know harden their opinion of "No" to much of this.

Change is a long, long, long, hard road.

[Koronin]

It also helps to not have the state arguing with the city of it. Long story, will try to shorten it. Charlotte wants to add a 2nd line to their light rail. The 2nd line will go from downtown to the university. The city/county was considering slightly raising the sales tax to do this. The state basically said if you raise the sales tax that money goes to the state and the state will spend it where it sees fit. City choose to not raise the sales tax and basically put the 2nd line on indefinite hold. (There is also a very long history, from what I can tell, of Charlotte and Raleigh arguing and fighting over just about anything and everything).

[marni]

It also helps to not have the state arguing with the city of it. Long story, will try to shorten it. Charlotte wants to add a 2nd line to their light rail. The 2nd line will go from downtown to the university. The city/county was considering slightly raising the sales tax to do this. The state basically said if you raise the sales tax that money goes to the state and the state will spend it where it sees fit. City choose to not raise the sales tax and basically put the 2nd line on indefinite hold. (There is also a very long history, from what I can tell, of Charlotte and Raleigh arguing and fighting over just about anything and everything).

they need a couple of top brass from the USMC- Camp LeJeune to "splain things to them."

I used to live in Jacksonville, way back when .

[Koronin]

The base has enough issues right now with the federal hiring freeze, which is really hurting some of the civil service areas on the base.
Apparently Charlotte and Raleigh have been at odds with each other for pretty much ever from what I understand. I moved to Charlotte from Ohio in 2000 and then moved here to Jacksonville in 2010. The entire time I lived near Charlotte there was also some fight going on between the two cities.

[smilingcat]

Raise the gas/petro price to something obscene $10.00 gallon or 1.6 pound sterling per litre.

This will get people to think of green transportation. :D

[Koronin]

You can't get people to use public transportation when it doesn't exist. You do realize that by raising gas prices you destroy the economy to a point that people can't afford to go to work because the price of gas would cost more than they are making? Most places do NOT have public transportation. The only way to fund it is locally and by sales taxes and that's ONLY if the state doesn't decide they want the money for something else. In this state the gas tax does NOT fund public transportation, ONLY ticket sales fund public transportation. Heck $4.00 a gallon pretty much shuts down the economy. Also as gas prices go up, public bus routes get shortened and many stops get cut out.

[shootingstar]

Our province is the only province in Canada that doesn't have provincial sales tax. Pretty stupid in my opinion, especially when we have gaps in infrastructure development, transit and health care --provincially.
Sorry. Within the last 12 months, Alberta is the fastest growing province in Canada at this time, in terms of population growth because of the economy, jobs which goes in wild cycles of bust and boom.

Anyway, I do notice a marked difference between those born, grown up most of their lives (or all their life) in the prairies vs. others. They do love the open great sky, space, etc.

But now buildng new sewer lines, roads, etc. to support growing suburbs is putting our city into debt for alot more single family dwellings.

The appetite for more transit, better routing continues to grow. The city is trying.

[NbyNW]

Steep topography and large bodies of water (to some extent) can also play a role in limiting sprawl. Calgary doesn't have much of either.

[Crankin]

The "us vs. them" attitude is everywhere, when it concerns change in government. Around here, it's the "townies vs. the blow ins." Small town New Englanders are famous for their provincial attitudes, even in the highly educated towns around where I live. People just can't see any other way, except their own. And each one of the 351 cities and towns in this state has their "own way" of doing things. This is why nothing gets done and there's no regionalization, because no one will share.

[shootingstar]

Well, someone at work specifically takes 1 hr lunch time off with adding on extra half hr.....to drive her daughter to work. Her daughter is 19. She also gives her a lift to get to work and drops off daughter along the way. At least 2 people in a car for commute which is great. But it does sound as if the daughter even at her age needs a car to get around herself. (I think she drives when she has access to car....she has her own horse kept...somewhere which she must look after daily and ride.)

Please tell me the lunch hr. thing this is totally right. :confused: But what do I know.

The family lives out in the 'burbs near the edge of town.

Some municipal services make much more sense for sharing costs, expertise and better service if it's regionalized in certain areas for: police, fire, paramedic, health care (I don't how the US works in this area),libraries, etc.

[westtexas]

You can't get people to use public transportation when it doesn't exist. You do realize that by raising gas prices you destroy the economy to a point that people can't afford to go to work because the price of gas would cost more than they are making? Most places do NOT have public transportation. The only way to fund it is locally and by sales taxes and that's ONLY if the state doesn't decide they want the money for something else. In this state the gas tax does NOT fund public transportation, ONLY ticket sales fund public transportation. Heck $4.00 a gallon pretty much shuts down the economy. Also as gas prices go up, public bus routes get shortened and many stops get cut out.

+1 to this. Also realize that the major oil/gas companies we see out here control so very little of the world's oil supply (Exxon is the largest in the states and it only controls 3%) that we couldn't simply "raise gas prices". It all depends on OPEC and speculation in the market.

My family is dependent on the oil and gas industry to survive. So is the city I live in, and used to live in. I know everyone sees the oil companies as the big problem here, but they are a major industry that employs a lot of people and making it cost-prohibitive to buy their product just to get more public transit put in is not the way to go about it, IMHO.

In my industry, we always say the best way to get clients to approve the treatment you want is to show them the value of it. People only complain about prices when there is no perceived value. If they don't think there's anything in it for them by running bloodwork, vaccinating, etc. they think we're just trying to steal their money. On the other hand, if you explain to them, show them, how valuable the services we offer are - it's amazing what people will do. I think the next step for public transit is to get people to value it, to understand that it's worth the time and money to get more. Once value is perceived, it's a whole lot easier to find funding for projects.

[Koronin]

westtexas, I agree with you. The other factor is the cost to the build the infrastructure in the first place. Which is the problem Charlotte is facing right now. They want to build the 2nd line, but they don't have the money for it and they the state won't allow them to raise the money for it. So in some situations it's also not just an issue of the city wanting it or not, but in this case the state preventing the city from building it. That line would be great as it will go from downtown Charlotte to the major university (UNC Charlotte) on the east side of town.

As for oil it's self, I wish we could pull it off the futures/commodities market as the speculators, IMO, are the biggest issue.