Talk to Me About Flat Pedals

[Artista]

O.K. I switched from SPD's to flats on my mountain bike this spring. I've been using some really cheap, really thick, pedals knowing that I needed to switch to something better soon. Now is the time.

So here are my questions:

If you use flats, which ones are you using?
What do you like and dislike about them?
Any pedals that you really hated?
Any pedals on your wish list?

I don't mind investing some $$$ in pedals as I've learned that they are arguably the most important contact point on the bike, (spoken by someone who managed to break her ankle when her foot slipped off of an unclipped, SPD pedal).

TIA!

[Irulan]

http://www.twenty6products.com/predator.html

pedal lust

[Catrin]

I love my Sunringle ZuZu pedals (http://www.sun-ringle.com/mtb/accessories/zuzu-pedals/). Very well made, and they have stood up to many, many falls over the last year.

I like that they have adjustable pins and also that they have so many of them. I don't like that they are black, I want them to be in colors like the Predators that Irulan provided a link for :) I can't tell from the Predator site if the pins are adjustable or not.

Like with all good pedals of this type, one has to think about pedal slap regardless of the pedals you choose. The bear claw type that you provided a link to will also do that, but the pins increase the likelihood. Basically they are meat tenderizers and can do a number on your shins and calves, which is why I wore shin protectors last year until I got used to them. I still wear them occasionally and will likely invest in a better pair as I start to ride more advanced trails.

[Artista]

Those titanium, Twenty6 pedals are works of art! Especially the silver with multicolored pins. I also like the pin design which looks like it would never be a problem to replace a sheared off pin. These pedals are high on my list but I'd probably go with the less expensive, cromoly version.

Canfield Crampon Ultimates (http://www.canfieldbrothers.com/components/pedals) are also on my radar.

Those ZuZu's look like solid pedals and I like the price point. I'm leaning toward a really thin pedal, though, as I've experienced some problems with the tall front and back edges of my current pedals.

[atombessy]

I use these on my mountain bikes:

http://www.crankbrothers.com/pedals_mallet.php

I like that if I miss the clip the pedal is still totally secure/comfy to ride on, feels like the best of both worlds! May or may not be up your alley depending on why you're switching from SPDs to flats.

[Artista]

I use these on my mountain bikes:

http://www.crankbrothers.com/pedals_mallet.php

I like that if I miss the clip the pedal is still totally secure/comfy to ride on, feels like the best of both worlds! May or may not be up your alley depending on why you're switching from SPDs to flats.
Thanks. These look like they would be great if I was willing to risk clipping in when I didn't want to. What I really want are thought-activated-auto-release clipless pedals. Flats are the closest that I can get at this point in technology.

[Catrin]

What I really want are thought-activated-auto-release clipless pedals...

Ooooh, now THIS I would put on my mountain bike! The problem isn't clipping in, it is getting clipped out in time. If you find them Artista let me know :cool:

[Artista]

They're making such amazing advances in nerve impulse activated prosthetic limbs that the idea of thought activated clipless pedal release may not be so far fetched in our grandchildren's world.

[Twenty6Products]

http://www.twenty6products.com/predator.html

pedal lust

Thanks for the hat tip, Irulan!

Just to give you a heads-up, we have last year's Prerunner flat pedals on sale in our web store (http://shop.twenty6products.com/2011-Prerunner-Pedal-Cromoly-Axle-Proceeds-Benefit-WRP-26098.htm) with cromoly axles in white and urban camo. Plus, $20 of the sale goes to bike trail advocacy and awareness in our community (Gallatin Valley, MT) so it's for a good cause.

If you're used to being clipped in, the two things that will matter for you most in a flat pedal are grip and thinness of the pedal body. I can assure you that you won't find a grippier flat pedal - and I don't just say that because I represent Twenty6 - you can see it for yourself. Look at all the flats out there: manufacturers seem to make a cool shape for the pedal body, then throw some set screws in a few locations for traction pins, almost as an afterthought. We design our pedals backwards to that method, by deciding where each pin should be located for maximum grip, then designing the pedal body to support those locations. You can see it in the pin design and the raised, islanded pin seats. Think of each pin as a micro-clip; each one is important to holding your foot in place.

Sorry if this is a long-winded post, but we're pretty passionate about all of our components (made entirely in-house here in Bozeman, MT, USA), so it's hard to shut me up. To make up for bearing with me, I'll throw this out to you - mention this forum post when you snag a pair of Prerunners from the web store, and we'll install aluminum traction pins of any color you choose - just leave a note during ordering.

Happy pedaling,
Andrea the Marketing Girl
Twenty6 Products Inc

[Irulan]

omg i might just have to give in. I already have some other of your bling on my bike....

[Anelia]

My husband rides these ones (http://www.exustar.com/2011/pc915.html) and they are very light. But for a better grip, I think these (http://www.exustar.com/2011/pb525.html) would be better.

[Artista]

I'm in!!! Thanks for explaining how Twenty6 pedals differ from the competition, Andrea. Can't wait to get off of those bear traps!

[Artista]

Thanks for the links Anelia. I'm pretty smitten by the Twenty6's at this point.

[indysteel]

Okay, I've now officially driven myself crazy trying to decide between a flat/grippy shoe combo and clipless. I've read more than a few threads on MTBR on the subject and read countless pedals and shoe reviews, but feel no closer to a decision. Honestly, I'd like to learn how have both setups eventually, but that seems like a costly experiment at this point. Logically, it would seem that pinned flats would be the next best step on my learning curve, but I'm still hesitant to pull the trigger.

With either option, I anticipate shoes being the sticking point. I have a narrow heel and, if my experience in trying to a road shoe is any indication, it's going to be a challenge to find a shoe that works. Someone on MTBR suggested the Five Ten Guide Tennie. That might work. But the same issue applies to clipless shoes. I've tried on a handful over the last year, and they also slipped rather badly in the heal.

But, ultimately, it just comes down to confidence. I don't have vast quantities of it on the trail, and I don't want to do anything that will jeopardize what little I've been able to build. I don't put my foot down all that often as it is--at least unplanned--on the trails I'm currently riding. My biggest trouble spot are rooty uphills or steep uphills in general. Of course, I might climb a heck of a lot better with a better connection to my pedals. I'm so excited about riding at this point, the thought of having to take it back a few steps to practice with clipless bums me out a bit, but maybe I'm making too much of my clipless fear. I started using them on my road bike with no problem and have had few incidents with them, even in emergency situations.

Ugh. Somebody hit me over the head. The lawyer in me is overthinking this.

[Catrin]

...Ugh. Somebody hit me over the head. The lawyer in me is overthinking this.

<Bonk> ;) I understand all about overthinking - as a long-range transportation planner I am quite good at this myself.

I am kind of in awe that you are considering making this move, but you've been riding a long time and you've certainly been riding clipless far longer than I've been riding. I know two other women who started trail riding last year who started out clipping in without too many problems that I've heard about.

Is there any way you can do a test run clipped in to see what you think? I honestly can't remember what pedals you ride on the road or if you already have mtb pedals. If not, can you can borrow a pair? I've a pair of SPD shoes that I use for spinning class you could borrow if our sizes are close enough for a test...an experiment might help you make up your mind.

[indysteel]

<Bonk> ;) I understand all about overthinking - as a long-range transportation planner I am quite good at this myself.

I am kind of in awe that you are considering making this move, but you've been riding a long time and you've been riding clipless far longer than I've been riding.

Is there any way you can do a test run on Pine Loop and the NT Connector clipped in? I honestly can't remember what pedals you ride on the road or if you already have mtb pedals.

I honestly think I'm at a point where I need to do something to provide a better connection to the pedals, from both a safety and efficiency/power standpoint. Now, whether the right answer for me is pinned flats/grippy shoe or clipless, I don't know. It's proving hard to sort out without actually just taking the pludge and trying one or the other. I don't know that there's any one timeline for clipless that's right for everyone. It seems like there's a vast array of experiences--good and bad--with them. And I think it's perfectly fine to never ride clipless on an MTB and to stick with flats.

If I were to try clipless, it would likely be with a multi-directional SPD cleat paired with Shimano's M647 pedal, which is about as well reviewed as SPDs come. If I were to go with flats, there are handful of pedals that seem fairly well reviewed. Boy, some of them are really pricey though. Certainly, I'd stick to easier trails as I got used to them if I went that route.

As far as my road experience, I've run Look Keos from day one. While I sometimes fumble with getting clipped into them, I've never faltered getting clipped out or forgetting that I'm clipped in. So, I tend to think that the second nature part of it will come to me (although I also anticipate some falls). I'm more worried about what they'll do to my confidence, especially on unfamiliar trails. In an ideal world, I'd have both set-ups and could switch between the two as appropriate. But I'm not prepared to spend that kind of money right now on shoe/pedal set-ups. From that standpoint, I tend to think that the flats will prove more versatile.

While I don't think this attitude is universal, one common theme to a lot of threads I've read where people have switched back from clipless to flats is "fun." As in, I'm having a lot of "fun" with the flats. I want to have fun out there myself. That's key.

[Catrin]

I agree entirely on the having fun part. I must admit that I find the idea of clipping on on the trails to be intimidating, but more importantly, at my level I don't need to do so in order to have fun. Just like you, however, I find a need to be more connected to my pedals. In a way my choice is easier as I already have a fine pair of pedals, I just need grippier shoes. Whenever, if ever, I choose to try clipless it will be my beloved Frogs.

Have fun, whatever your decision. I think I've been reading those same threads as you.

[indysteel]

I have to say that I was a bit amazed this past weekend. My friends took their 22-year old nephew out both Friday and Saturday for this first times on the trail. Right or wrong, they had him in clipless pedals from the start. He ended up doing, the beginner and intermediate trails at Fort Ben and Pine Loop, NT, part of Green Valley, and Limekiln at BCSP. He has a few mishaps, but nothing serious and I don't know that they were clipless related.

Now, I think it's really misguided to send a new rider out with clipless (and by new, I mean he'd NEVER used clipless on any kind of bike), but he did fine. I don't share that to make anybody, myself included, seem like a big chicken if they don't to ride clipless, but it did make me wonder if I'm overthinking it a bit for my own purposes.

[Irulan]

He's probably a natural. I would never,ever recommend clipless for a beginner. When I coach, one of the requirements is flat pedals.

[indysteel]

He's probably a natural. I would never,ever recommend clipless for a beginner. When I coach, one of the requirements is flat pedals.

Yeah; I was shocked when I saw that he was clipless. My friends aren't reckless themselves so I'm not sure why they let him use them.

[Artista]

Indy, I second the idea that flats are more fun. I'm a much more aggressive, confident, and competent rider now that I'm back on flats. I didn't notice any difference in power but I built a lot more muscle while I was off the bike. I believe that clipless pedals don't contribute any more power than what we can achieve with more muscle.

You should ask how many people on mtbr converted from clipless to flats and then went back to clipless. I'm guessing that most folks who do technical riding and convert from clipless to flats don't go back to clipless. I also think that you can't compare road riding on clipless to mtb'ing on clipless because the terrain and riding style are so different. Competent clipless road riding doesn't necessarily equate to competent clipless mtb'ing unless you're mtb'ing on super simple stuff like fire roads.

On a related note, my new Twenty6 pedals came today! I splurged on the polished silver with multicolored pins - found them at a significant discount on HucknRoll (http://www.hucknroll.com/twenty6-products-predator-pedal-with-titanium-axle?cmp_id=&rrType=ClickEV&rrProd=TWS0027). They are freakin' beautiful! They're easily a third again as big as my bear traps yet surprisingly light weight. The pins are deadly sharp; I'm sure that my feet aren't going ANYWHERE unless they bounce straight up. I'll review them after I've done a few rides.

[indysteel]

Thanks for that perspective, Artista. I think I've more or less decided to go that route if I can find some grippy shoes that fit. DH has some BMX pedals I can test out. I otherwise would like to get anew set, preferably one with a thin profile.

[Catrin]

Congratulations Artista on the purchase! If I didn't like my Sunringle ZuZu pedals so much I would be tempted, and if I ever really need to replace them I will likely go that route. My vanity would love to have a pair that matched my bike, but thankfully my budget is standing there with her hands on her hips saying "what? I don't THINK so" :)

Pretty pedals!

I really need to upgrade my shin guards to something lighter/fits me better. The Lizardskins are HOT, and they weren't made for someone my height. I only use them to prevent pedal slap - this is the only down side to pins. Right now I am just not using them - which is probably fine for my current skill level and trails, but will need to change that when I start advancing again.

[limewave]

Artista--I was looking at those same pedals from HuckNRoll. I hope you LOVE them!

I've decided to hold off on flat pedals . . . for now. I still want to move in that direction, but its a bit of an investment that I can't afford right now. Plus, I didn't have any feet issues whatsoever during my endurance race. My plan is to start setting side a little money here and there and hopefully by next year this time I'll be riding flats too :)

[Trek-chick]

I just put some Xpedo Face-Off XMX13 Platform Pedals

In Red/Black on my 29er and love them. They have replaceable pins in them and come with spares too.

[indigoiis]

I also broke my ankle while riding clipped in on the trail - going up a knotty path between two trees I panicked, tried to clip out on the left, and fell right on it in one foul swoop. I haven't been back on the trails since but badly want to. That was two years ago. I guess I need some fancy new flats with pins! :D

I honestly thought I was the only one who thought being clipped in made the fear worse.

[indysteel]

I'm really looking forward to my first ride with my new set up. I'm still playing around with which shoe will work best. The Five Ten Guide Tennies made my toes go numb, but I otherwise like how they fit. I also ordered some Five Ten Freeriders to see if they might work better. They have a slightly gripper sole and fit and feel a bit different. If they also make my toes go numb, then I'll try some stiffer insoles in both pairs of shoes and see which one I prefer--assuming that provides a good fix. It's a work in progress.

The pedals themselve are purty and the pins are pretty darn sharp. Gotta be careful.....

I'm really thrilled that I went this route; I think it'll be better for me for the time being (and maybe permanently).

[Grits]

I also broke my ankle while riding clipped in on the trail - going up a knotty path between two trees I panicked, tried to clip out on the left, and fell right on it in one foul swoop. I haven't been back on the trails since but badly want to. That was two years ago. I guess I need some fancy new flats with pins! :D


I know this is a mountain bike thread, but I broke my foot in a fall while road biking. Although my SPDs were on the loosest setting, I didn't get clipped out during the crash, my foot twisted underneath the bike, and I broke the 1st, 2nd and 3rd metatarsals. I haven't been back in clipless since and haven't missed them at all. I am using Ergons, which are fine although I would like to try lamdas, but budget does not allow. There is a thread on here somewhere about my experience with them. You probably need pins for trail riding, which Ergon's do not have.

[Catrin]

I also broke my ankle while riding clipped in on the trail - going up a knotty path between two trees I panicked, tried to clip out on the left, and fell right on it in one foul swoop. I haven't been back on the trails since but badly want to. That was two years ago. I guess I need some fancy new flats with pins! :D

I honestly thought I was the only one who thought being clipped in made the fear worse.

At this point I've no intention on clipping on on the mountain bike. I've great pinned pedals, just starting to look for better grippy shoes to go with the pedals. I've had mtb downhill racers recommend this - though I don't know if they do that when they are actually racing. I don't want to take that extra second to unclip. I might change my mind someday, but until then...

There are several great pedals suggested in this thready - dearly love my Zuzu pedals, just need better shoes.

[indigoiis]

I asked DH about flats with pins (showed him the pretty ones - *hint!*) and he replied dryly that he had a set of mb flats with pins "somewhere out in the workshop." I could tell though that he was secretly happy that I said, "mountain bike", because it means I might go riding again!

Meantime, I have no problem being clipped in on the road. Actually, before the break, I really didn't mind being clipped in on the trail. I got used to it, practiced going over logs and taking the bike with me. It was the desire to put my foot down (and disinclination to allow myself to fall) that screwed everything up. But maybe that desire is very natural, after all.

[snapdragen]

I'm really looking forward to my first ride with my new set up. I'm still playing around with which shoe will work best. The Five Ten Guide Tennies made my toes go numb, but I otherwise like how they fit. I also ordered some Five Ten Freeriders to see if they might work better. They have a slightly gripper sole and fit and feel a bit different. If they also make my toes go numb, then I'll try some stiffer insoles in both pairs of shoes and see which one I prefer--assuming that provides a good fix. It's a work in progress.

The pedals themselve are purty and the pins are pretty darn sharp. Gotta be careful.....

I'm really thrilled that I went this route; I think it'll be better for me for the time being (and maybe permanently).

I know nothing of pedals or MTBs, but I wonder if you went up 1/2 or a full size the toe numbness would stop? In my short-lived marathon career, that's what I ended up doing.

[indysteel]

I know nothing of pedals or MTBs, but I wonder if you went up 1/2 or a full size the toe numbness would stop? In my short-lived marathon career, that's what I ended up doing.

I bought them a half size bigger and have a lot of extra room in them in terms of length (more than I expected). I think they might just not be stiff enough, which is why the insoles might help.

[Artista]

Indy, my feet started sleeping as soon as I switched to my new Twenty6 pedals. They never slept on the smaller, less secure, bear traps. I think that the problem is that my feet are held so securely in one position on the new pedals that I lose some circulation. I solved the problem on today's ride by moving my feet just a few millimeters every few minutes.