Blind Curve Signaling Suggestions?

[Artista]

We frequently ride a set of trails with lots of blind curves. When approaching these curves, I always signal my presence to any unseen riders on the other side by calling out "Bike Coming". My hope is that anyone on the other side would call back so that I know they are there and I can take appropriate action.

The problem is that no one ever signals back. Twice now I've been gritched out for not yielding to an uphill rider that I didn't know was there until it was too late to totally yield the trail. I think that part of the problem is that the phrase "Bike Coming" implies to riders on the other side that I'm aware of their presence. They then assume that I'm being rude or ignorant by not yielding when they're riding uphill.

I need to change the way that I'm signaling. I'm thinking of calling out "Blind Curve" but the simple act of proactively calling out may still imply to unseen riders that I'm aware of their presence. I've considered a bike bell but I'm not sure that the sound would carry far enough.

So I'm wondering if any of you signal proactively? If so, how do you signal?

[Eden]

I'm not a mt biker, but there are some places that I ride on mups that are narrow and that I know people often go wide - ie cross over onto my side... I generally just yell "CORNER"

I think that may be what they do in restaurants when carrying trays full of dishes? It may be that only present and former wait staff have any idea what I'm talking about....

[Becky]

We ride with bells around here. Both of my mountain bikes have one, and I'll often ring going into a problematic corner or climb.

[solobiker]

I will have to think on that one..that is a tough one. I am interested in what ideas others may come up with.

[jessmarimba]

I don't have any suggestions. But those must be some grumpy mountain bikers -I can't imagine yelling at someone for coming around a blind turn and suddenly being in the way! I'd be afraid of coming across a runner with headphones on though. That's most of the reason I don't run trails with music, actually.

[solobiker]

Very good points Jess...they must be grumpy. We were almost run off of a trail up at Buff Creek by a mtn biker with headphones flying down a hill. Ahh...such is the life. He must be more important then me and most others on the trails. ;)

[Artista]

I don't have any suggestions. But those must be some grumpy mountain bikers -I can't imagine yelling at someone for coming around a blind turn and suddenly being in the way! I'd be afraid of coming across a runner with headphones on though. That's most of the reason I don't run trails with music, actually.
These have been the only 2 grumpy people out of the 100's that we've encountered on these trails. I still think that life is too short to be grumpy on a mtn bike but I give them a bit of an "out" if they're misinterpreting my signal as knowing that they're there.

I've found that the trail runners out here typically don't run with headphones but the "hikers" frequently wear headphones. It's the "hikers" with headphones that make me the most nervous. My husband had to dismount today to pass a hiker in the middle of the trail because she didn't hear his multiple signals. She jumped sky high when he began to pass her on foot.

I like the idea of calling "Corner", even if people don't recognize that term. Just hearing a human voice will alert someone on the other side that someone else is approaching without leading them to believe that I already know that they're there. I may combine this call out with an Incredibell which is supposed to be pretty loud.

[Veronica]

Climbing cyclists have the right of way. When I'm descending, I make sure I don't outride my sight lines. That often means keeping the speed down until I'm around the corner and can see what is there.

Veronica

[Artista]

Climbing cyclists have the right of way. When I'm descending, I make sure I don't outride my sight lines. That often means keeping the speed down until I'm around the corner and can see what is there.

Veronica
Yes, I'm aware that the climbing cyclists have the right of way. And I always slow down and call out when approaching a blind curve. The problem is that people aren't signaling back so I don't know that they're there.

Today I didn't see the other cyclist until literally about 2 seconds before we were side by side. He was actually riding faster uphill than I was riding downhill. I had boulders and a steep drop off to my right so I couldn't ride off the trail. If I had stopped, I would have had to lean my bike and body into the center of the trail. I did the best that I could under the circumstances and held my line as far right as possible. That's when the other rider yelled back at me that I should have yielded.

I was really "between a rock and hard place" in this encounter. I would have had a much better chance of totally yielding had he signaled back after I first called out.

[Catrin]

This doesn't sound like a good situation at all. I've never seen a blind curve on any of the mtb trails I've ridden or hiked, but of course I am new and far from an expert. We have a good number of tight switchbacks and other features, but as long as you keep scanning ahead you can see others coming enough to be able to do what you need to do. As a slower rider I just tend to get out of the way of everyone, regardless of direction :)

Good luck on finding a solution, it sounds like your terrain forced the trail builders into some less than optimum choices.

[Veronica]

You know they may not hear you when you holler, or they may not process that you're talking to them.

Veronica

[OakLeaf]

I've found that wearing hi-viz makes it much easier to spot oncoming riders on the MUP when the curve is blind because of vegetation. You can still see flashes of that brilliant color through the trunks and leaves. No help if the way forward is blind because of a hill or rock, of course.

[Artista]

We're riding up and down mesas so our sight is often blocked by the sides of hills. There is no opportunity to catch even a flash of color. That's why I'm signaling proactively but I think that the term "Bikes Coming" is leading other riders to believe that I know that they are there and that I'm yielding before they even see me.

Calling out "Corner" isn't a perfect solution but it may alert other riders to my presence while preventing them from assuming that I know that they're on the other side. In the end, I may have to be satisfied to be the only person signaling in these blind curves and blow off the occasional grumpy rider.

[Becky]

Usually, when I'm calling out during a ride, it's to my riding partners behind me to let them know that we have traffic in front of us. Other riders in my area seem to do the same thing.

I can see why verbal signals might confuse other riders around you....

[solobiker]

Would it be easier if you changed the direction you are riding? Just wondering... because in the case of Centinnial Cone it is easier to avoid others in tricky areas because most people ride it clockwise so we are all pretty much going in the same direction.

Still it is a tough call on that and I wish I had some suggestions. Luckily for me DH's brakes sometimes squeel so others here us coming. There is no need for them to be grumpy though...they should just enjoy being able to be out and riding.

[jessmarimba]

Maybe that's partly why I hadn't encountered this...my brakes squeal like crazy.

I hate when someone comes up behind me going really fast (generally on downhills) and doesn't make any noise. When I finally hear them I usually about fall over because it scares the bejesus out of me. Just tell me you want around and I will gladly move!!

[solobiker]

Same here Jess!!:) I hate it when that happens...there really is no reason for it.

[Artista]

Would it be easier if you changed the direction you are riding?
Hmmm...maybe. It seems that about 40% of the riders go our direction and the other 60% go the other direction. Hubby and I have talked about doing it "backwards" just for something different. I think we'll give it a try.

[Loraura]

A bell is the way to go. On a positive note for the directinally impared, my bell also has a compas on it.

Secondly, try to find out who the trail steward is for that trail, and mention the need for a reroute/adjustment to that corner if it is dangerously blind.

[Artista]

A bell is the way to go. On a positive note for the directinally impared, my bell also has a compas on it.

Secondly, try to find out who the trail steward is for that trail, and mention the need for a reroute/adjustment to that corner if it is dangerously blind.
We're riding around the sides of mesas, (flat top mountains), with lots of rock. I'm not sure that a bell can be heard around these curves

No option to reroute the trail without taking out a large portion of the mesa. I probably call out at least 20 times on just one 4 mile trail section. Some of the other areas aren't quite so bad.

I'm going to get some pics of the trail next time we ride. I always enjoy seeing what trails look like in other parts of the country. Our trails are soooo different than any of the other pics I've seen. And my blind curve dilemma might be easier to understand if I can show everyone what I'm talking about.

[Artista]

On a positive note for the directinally impared, my bell also has a compas on it.
I forgot to ask how you knew that I can hardly tell my right from my left:o I've heard that directional impairment is common in artistic types. I love compasses!

[Catrin]

We're riding around the sides of mesas, (flat top mountains), with lots of rock. I'm not sure that a bell can be heard around these curves

No option to reroute the trail without taking out a large portion of the mesa. I probably call out at least 20 times on just one 4 mile trail section. Some of the other areas aren't quite so bad.

I'm going to get some pics of the trail next time we ride. I always enjoy seeing what trails look like in other parts of the country. Our trails are soooo different than any of the other pics I've seen. And my blind curve dilemma might be easier to understand if I can show everyone what I'm talking about.

Pictures would be helpful, and I would love to see a mesa trail anyway, it sounds like a beautiful place to ride! Is it better if you ride the other direction?

[OakLeaf]

I'm not sure that a bell can be heard around these curves

What about a loud horn? Even on my little MUP, no one can hear a bell over the sound of traffic. But just a squeeze horn is enough to alert people who aren't listening to their iPods or talking on the phone, which hopefully people aren't doing out on the trails. :rolleyes: If you need louder, there's always one of those hand-pumped air horns.

[Aggie_Ama]

I find my bell is much more effective than calling out, the sound actually carries fairly well and it seems to get attention whereas many people drown out voices. Whenever I go around a known blind or obscured corner I ring it, also at intersections and sometimes to let my ride group know where I am if we get strung out. If I don't have a bell is yell "rider" but I have had a few close calls with that. A lot of hikers and bikers have thanked me for having the bell.

[Loraura]

I forgot to ask how you knew that I can hardly tell my right from my left:o I've heard that directional impairment is common in artistic types. I love compasses!

It must be in the name! (I'm also Lori!)

[Catrin]

I forgot to ask how you knew that I can hardly tell my right from my left:o I've heard that directional impairment is common in artistic types. I love compasses!

hmmm, I have a friend who literally cannot tell her right from her left if you call it that. She is fine with the cardinal directions if she knows which way is north - and she is fine if I tell her to turn toward the passenger side..(and so forth). Didn't know this is common to artistic types, will have to tell her, she would get a kick out of that :)

Don't get me wrong, she can work out which side is her right or left, but she has to think about it - her brain just doesn't work that way.

[Artista]

It must be in the name! (I'm also Lori!)
Lori is a good name. It's served me well for a lot of years. I think I'll keep it:)

About artists being directionally challenged, I find that my sense of direction goes right down the tubes when I heavily indulge my creative side for many months. Most of the time I have to use the analytical side of my brain and that's when my sense of direction gets better but it's never great. I have to spend several months indulging one side of my brain or the other before I notice a slight change in my directional ability.

[Artista]

Here are a couple of pics of typical blind curves on my favorite trails. I wasn't able to get a pic of the most problematic curve because we cut our ride short after hubby's pretty spectacular endo. He didn't sustain any serious injuries but he was sore enough after the fall that we went home early.

The first photo shows how the trail is cut into the side of the mesa so there isn't much chance of improving visibility. This curve isn't too bad as it isn't very steep, there is little vegetation on either side of the trail, and it's flat enough on the outside of the curve for the downhill rider to swerve off of the trail if they unexpectedly meet an uphill rider at the curve apex.

In the second photo, take a look at the dense bushes on both sides of the trail just as the trail disappears around the curve toward the top of the photo. You can also see the steep drop off to the right of the trail in the bottom of this photo. The downhill rider has a slight advantage on this curve since the side of the mountain is on the downhill rider's right. Still, when encountering an unexpected uphill rider at the apex of this curve, it makes the most sense for both riders to continue riding as close to each riders' respective trail edge as possible. There IS enough room to pass safely.

One of the points that I didn't make about both of the uphill riders who were grumpy when I wasn't able to totally vacate the trail is that they were able to pass me without losing any of their momentum. Attempting to vacate the trail with only a few seconds notice would have been dangerous for me as I had dense bushes and steep drop offs on my right in both situations.

I've decided that there is no easy solution when meeting another rider on these blind curves. I don't have enough room on my handlebars for a bell and a horn is impractical. I've started calling out "CORNER" which alerts unseen trail users on the other side of the curve to my presence without implying that I'm aware of THEIR presence. Of course, as the downhill rider, I'll continue do my best to yield the trail when it's safe to do so and I'll ride slowly while holding my line to the far right of the trail when it's not safe for me to totally yield the trail. The many reasonable trail users understand that there is no "one size fits all" approach to reacting to another rider on a blind curve. The rare, legalistic, grumpy, riders can go blow.