Saddle Issues

[jones.mrgrt]

Not intending to beat a dead horse but I'm having difficulty finding a good saddle.

I know : try different ones, over and over and over again. Look at positioning. Etc.

It's frustrating.

I was looking at the Fizik saddles and discovered this "animal" spine thing they think is the answer. I was wondering if any of you have had any experience with this. I am super flexible (can just about put my elbows on the floor.) which would say I'm a "snake" but when I am riding the "bull" description sounds more like me.

Snake : Those with more flexibility bend to a greater degree at the lower part of the spine. In this position, the sit bones manage most of the body’s weight with little pressure on the genital area.

Bull : Those with less flexibility are not able to easily accomplish the high performance cycling position. To reach this position the pelvis rotates forward dramatically forcing the hips back. In this position, the rider’s weight is directed to the genital area.

Am I completely missing something?

[OakLeaf]

Well ...

First off, flexibility in forward bend is much more about hamstrings than low back. I speak from personal experience there - I can also bend my elbows with my palms on the floor, but my low back is EXTREMELY inflexible (even after doing my PT exercises for a year, it's way better than it was, but a lot of it is anatomical).

But, it's very common for a saddle to work for someone in a more upright riding posture but less so when they get more aero. (The saddle on my hybrid is one I took off my roadie, that was okay but not great on the not-even-super-aero road bike, but it's just dandy on the commuter. So much so that I can ride that bike in jeans with zero problems.)

I'm reading between the lines in your post that you've had fewer saddle issues when you set your bike up in a less aero position? It's certainly possible that a deep tuck just isn't going to work for you (was that your question?). But it's also possible that you just haven't found the right saddle.

Do you race, so that getting into a deep tuck is important to you (and so that you need a lighter saddle with a longer nose)? What issues have you had with the saddles you've tried? What size/shape/cutout do you need?

[M-Rad]

Oakleaf: thank you for articulating the whole sit bones aero vs sitting straight up issue. I find it impossible to ride aero completely on your sitbones especially in the drops. And my sitbones do not feel comfortable on the widest part of the saddle.

I ride a fizik and hate it because I need a cutout.

Some LBS tried to tell me that your sit bones need to be on the widest part of the saddle. This didn't make sense or feel comfortable when I go into the drops. Another LBS tried to tell me that your sit bones cradle that part of the saddle in the narrow section right before it starts to widen. Fiziik and Selle SMP saddles seem to support this later position. The SMPs actually curve up preventing you from sliding too far back. I checked with a few of my racer friends and their sitbones sit in that narrow section right before it widens. They all ride Fizik or SMPs.

So this is what I tried and doesn't work:

Fizik Vesta: need a cutout
Fizik Arione: need a cut out
Selle SMP Lite 209: too wide but cutout was great
Selle SMP Glider:too wide but cutout was great
Selle Pro: way too wide but cutout was great
Selle Italia GelFlow Flite: width is good but cutout does not extend forward far enough

This week I will be trying the following saddles:
Selle Italia SLR Lady Flow
Selle SMP Stratos
Specialized Oura

If you have any suggestions or can recommend a saddle I should try, please let me know.

[zoom-zoom]

I suspect we have similar issues. I would give the Bontrager InForm Affinity a try. That's working the best for me, though it could stand to be a hair more T-shaped. I'm waiting patiently for the Ergon SM3 to become available.

[jones.mrgrt]

OakLeaf : Fantastic questions that I really should have answered from the start.

I am a racer, or at least getting back to training after an extended time off due to an injury, so aero or at least not upright is pretty important.

I have fewer issues in a more upright position but it's still not terribly comfortable.

I went out for a ride yesterday and played around with that lower-back flexibility and where/how I sit. What I learned :

I'm pretty sure I need a cut out or channel
When I get more aero with my current saddle I get WAY too much pressure where it shouldn't be
If I shift back in this more aero position it alleviates most of those issues

My current saddle has a cutout, it's pretty tiny and in the middle of the saddle. What I'm pretty sure I need is a larger cutout or channel that extends through the nose of the saddle so that all the pressure isn't on soft tissue when I go aero.

That is why I was looking at Fizik (the arione donna).

I'm going to be off the bike again for two weeks or so for a silent meditation retreat. I'm not going to be able to try anything before leaving but I want to gather information so that I am ready to go when I get back.

I've read about saddle shape, pear vs T, and some of the important points but I still don't really understand anything about it.

M-Rad : I am pretty sure that riding more aero will always create a different weight distribution between soft tissue/sit bones

[OakLeaf]

Well, I'm all about my SI Turbomatic Gel Flow. They're not cheap and last I checked they weren't in SI's trial program, but if you can find one to try, it's I think as T-shaped as it gets in a 153 mm width, and the cut-out is very generous (both in width and front-to-back) thanks to the domed shape.

Shifting back, but not being able to stay back, says one of two things to me (possibly both) - your cockpit is too long, and/or your saddle is too wedge (pear) shaped.

What saddle are you riding now - what else have you tried?

[M-Rad]

I ride a Fizik Vesta.

I tried moving the saddle forward today so I was more on my sit bones even in an aero position but after 4 hours of riding, decided I def need a cutout.

I love the generous cutout on the Selle SMP but I've tried 3 that didn't work. I will try another next week.

You are probably right that I need more of a t-shapped saddle but I'm so bad at distinguishing between a pear and a T. how can you tell the difference. Do you know if the SI SLR Lady is a T? That is the next saddle on tap to try out.

[Miranda]

http://www.amazon.com/TERRY-BUTTERFLY-TRI-SADDLE-RAILS/dp/B0007656NI

Oh this link above is probably in vain, but fwiw... that's my beloved saddle: Terry Butterfly Tri Gel.

I have it on 2 of my bikes, and a different Terry on the 3rd.

It's probably not all super racer light as you would like. But when you are not in pain and comfortable, you perform better all the way around.

Since you commented you were off the bike for injury (been there), and are getting back into racing... are you sure things overall are fitted to you properly?

Just some food for thought as the saddle I mentioned was one I tried before in my VERY long saddle search... to learn it wasn't the saddle so much... it was my ill fit on the bike... that exact same saddle with a good fit is what worked.

Good Luck!

:)

[jones.mrgrt]

I'm currently riding a "Skye" saddle. Not sure where it came from. It's pretty narrow, has a decent cut out. Similar to these other skye saddles. http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/skye-saddle-370575.html

From what I remember I've tried is a bontrager something (went to my LBS measured my sit bones and was told to get it). No cut out but a small groove, squishy, and hell on my race bike. It is currently on my commuter and it works fine, largely in part to not having a long enough seat post, so I am much more upright and the squish helps the sit bones.


But when you are not in pain and comfortable, you perform better all the way around.

True that.

My mom's boyfriend/my coach, as well as my LBS, other part time coach, and other friend, have all looked at my position. All people I really trust and who know their stuff. I worry about my position, especially because of my injury (medial meniscus damage), but I'm pretty sure that it was caused from not stretching enough/at all. I go through a pretty hard core stretching routine in the mornings and follow my rides with ice. I've been working with a chiropractor, who is also a cyclist, and it seems to be helping. (The chiropractor says it's probably due to tight hips and muscle imbalance.)

Pretty sure my fit is okay. Although that is a really good point and something that I should double, triple, quadruple check.